The False Recruiting Dichotomy

[RockyMTblue2]

One of Nan's news links today is from South Carolina's website, The State, and it quotes Roscoe Wilson, A'ja's father, as saying her choice is between becoming part of the U Conn winning tradition or does she want to "create her own legacy." When you are living inside the recruiting bubble and listening to the adulatory babble from one program after another about how important you would be to their program, you can get sort of near sighted. However, unless you join a non-contender and lead them to multiple NCs, with no other stars around you, you are not creating a legacy. There has never been one in the modern era and there never will be one (an argument can be advanced for DT in 2004 - 1 year). On the other hand, if you are great at U Conn, then you are GREAT and you are enshrined in a sisterhood of stars - not just on a plaque or banner in Gampel, but in a national fan base and the most talked about team in women's BB. No one gets lost in the haze at U Conn and the true test of greatness is to be a leader among leaders.

If someone is dedicated to getting the most out of her game and advancing into the pros as an early selection armed with the body and game to succeed in the WNBA and internationally, then the edge has to go to U Conn.

 

[pinotbear]

I'm not sure I agree with your definition of "legacy", Rocky: the one you use is mighty, mighty tough to meet. As you say, at best, DT fits it. You can certainly go to another program and win a title, be an All-American, be an "impact" player.

Having said that, I think the best arguments for A'ja coming to UConn are the ones you list at the end of your post: her personal development, both short and long-term, would be best served by attending UConn.

I would add one other. If you go to program other than UConn, and you want to win a national title, you are almost always going to have to contend with UConn as an opponent, be it regular season or tournament. It can be done, obviously: UConn doesn't win them all. But, it ain't easy.

 

[meyers7]

owever, unless you join a non-contender and lead them to multiple NCs, with no other stars around you, you are not creating a legacy. There has never been one in the modern era and there never will be one

Agree. Going to SC and leading them to the.....say.....Elite 8 (maybe, maybe a FF during your 4 years), yea I wouldn't really consider that a legacy. But, not my decision.

If one considers oneself to be really elite, go for it, take the challenge, lay down your marker where it will really means something.

 

[ScarlettB]

One of Nan's news links today is from South Carolina's website, The State, and it quotes Roscoe Wilson, A'ja's father, as saying her choice is between becoming part of the U Conn winning tradition or does she want to "create her own legacy." When you are living inside the recruiting bubble and listening to the adulatory babble from one program after another about how important you would be to their program, you can get sort of near sighted. However, unless you join a non-contender and lead them to multiple NCs, with no other stars around you, you are not creating a legacy. There has never been one in the modern era and there never will be one (an argument can be advanced for DT in 2004 - 1 year). On the other hand, if you are great at U Conn, then you are GREAT and you are enshrined in a sisterhood of stars - not just on a plaque or banner in Gampel, but in a national fan base and the most talked about team in women's BB. No one gets lost in the haze at U Conn and the true test of greatness is to be a leader among leaders.

If someone is dedicated to getting the most out of her game and advancing into the pros as an early selection armed with the body and game to succeed in the WNBA and internationally, then the edge has to go to U Conn.

I don't think you have to play on a team with no other stars around to create a legacy. For example, if A'ja chose to go to RU and was able to lead them to a National Championship, IMO she would be creating a legacy by adding the one thing missing from Coach Stringer's HOF resume. RU currently has a nucleus of some pretty good players - none of whom are graduating after this season.

I would also argue that Jackie Stiles created a legacy. She lead an unheralded program to the final four. Realistically, you are not going to join a non-contender and lead them to multiple NC's and I think even most high school kids know that.

I agree that if you are great at UConn, then you are great, but I think you can be a little overlooked when it comes to becoming an AA. The voters like to spread their votes around a bit and playing on a team where everyone is a star, can lessen your personal stats.

 

[Wbbfan1]

A'ja should go to a school where she will be most happy. However, IMHO if one of her goals is to win a National Championship, that won't happen at South Carolina. It's rare that an elite player is able to recruit additional elite players to their school in subsequent recruiting classes. Even if South Carolina signs A'ja they still have a way to go to catch up to Kentucky and the Lady Vols. Never mind LSU and Georgia. However, if A'ja and her family are more comfortable staying close to home that's where she should go.

It will be interesting to see if she decides on UNC as that is also reasonably close to home and they have a nucleus to have a great team. However, IMHO that will always be Diamond's team and she will get the credit if they win any National Championships in the next four years.

Sure there are recruiting classes like UNC had last year and OSU is having this year where players in the same recruiting class decide they want to attend the same school. UConn had the TASSK class as well. How often does it happen with players in different recruiting classes. Not often enough to think that A'ja can do it. Now if A'ja had decided on a school already, she might have been able to get more elite players to consider a school like South Carolina. South Carolina is not a hot bed for Women Basketball Recruits so that will make A'ja's task more difficult if she decides on South Carolina.

Hopefully she decides UConn is the best place for her to go, time will tell.

 

[UcMiami]

I think you can look at a player like Diggins and say they created a legacy by leading ND out of the wilderness - she did not win an NC but she did bring them back into the conversation.
And you can look at Lobo and say her arrival at Uconn laid the foundation for everything that has followed.
It is a team game and you cannot win the NC alone, but you can be the catalyst for a team's change in fortune.
So ... yes, I think it is a valid desire to blaze a new trail at a new institution and it does have meaning. Diggins at Uconn would be one in a long line of superstars, Lobo at TN the same.
But I do agree that the bigger picture is often missed and the conclusion of your post is absolutely correct. Which does not mean that it is the most important issue in choosing a school for many athletes.

 

[EricLA]

A'ja should go to a school where she will be most happy. However, IMHO if one of her goals is to win a National Championship, that won't happen at South Carolina. It's rare that an elite player is able to recruit additional elite players to their school in subsequent recruiting classes. Even if South Carolina signs A'ja they still have a way to go to catch up to Kentucky and the Lady Vols. Never mind LSU and Georgia. However, if A'ja and her family are more comfortable staying close to home that's where she should go.

It will be interesting to see if she decides on UNC as that is also reasonably close to home and they have a nucleus to have a great team. However, IMHO that will always be Diamond's team and she will get the credit if they win any National Championships in the next four years.

Sure there are recruiting classes like UNC had last year and OSU is having this year where players in the same recruiting class decide they want to attend the same school. UConn had the TASSK class as well. How often does it happen with players in different recruiting classes. Not often enough to think that A'ja can do it. Now if A'ja had decided on a school already, she might have been able to get more elite players to consider a school like South Carolina. South Carolina is not a hot bed for Women Basketball Recruits so that will make A'ja's task more difficult if she decides on South Carolina.

Hopefully she decides UConn is the best place for her to go, time will tell.

Additionally, SC has not recruited any elite players during Staley's tenure there. There are only a few top kids left in 2014 and I don't know if any are considering SC, but in Aja's freshman year, the highest rated recruits would be Sr. Welsh (#88), Jr. Sessions (#40), Sophomore Coats (#75) and Freshman Duckett (#32).

In a way it reminds me of Delaware. Even EDD's senior year, when there were 4 other players who were all starters her junior year, UDel could do no better than the sweet 16. Now, to be fair, I think SC has much better coaching, and better players as I'm not sure UDel ever got anyone in the top 100. But unless Staley were to start recruiting gangbusters in 2015 and beyond, I don't see how SC makes it far in the NCAA's, never mind in the SEC with teams like aTm, Kentucky, Georgia, Vandy, Tennessee, etc.

The flip side is we've read that A'ja is worried about being homesick and staying close to home to her family is something she seems to be considering strongly. Maybe UNC would be a good compromise for her.

 

[ciarlante]

One of Nan's news links today is from South Carolina's website, The State, and it quotes Roscoe Wilson, A'ja's father, as saying her choice is between becoming part of the U Conn winning tradition or does she want to "create her own legacy." When you are living inside the recruiting bubble and listening to the adulatory babble from one program after another about how important you would be to their program, you can get sort of near sighted. However, unless you join a non-contender and lead them to multiple NCs, with no other stars around you, you are not creating a legacy. There has never been one in the modern era and there never will be one (an argument can be advanced for DT in 2004 - 1 year). On the other hand, if you are great at U Conn, then you are GREAT and you are enshrined in a sisterhood of stars - not just on a plaque or banner in Gampel, but in a national fan base and the most talked about team in women's BB. No one gets lost in the haze at U Conn and the true test of greatness is to be a leader among leaders.

If someone is dedicated to getting the most out of her game and advancing into the pros as an early selection armed with the body and game to succeed in the WNBA and internationally, then the edge has to go to U Conn.

More arrogance from the UCONN faithful..so no one can be great unless they play at UCONN.. where they would be surrounded by stars... I think anyone with half a basketball brain would realize that Elena created a legacy at Delaware (and nationally) as one of the best players EVER.. and is by far the most popular player on the scene these days (and guess what she shunned UCONN).. nobody on UCONN..not even Stewey , could go to Delaware and put them on the map like EDD..despite being a great achievement winning a NC is not the only goal of a collegiate athlete..this sounds like the reporters who judge QBs based on winning Super Bowls which would make Trent Dilfer a better QB than Dan Marino..maybe its a little more challenging to an athlete to try and be successful somewhere other than UCONN.. have fun playing in the new conference where it will be like the USA Team playing Panama..besides the UCONN faithful who love watching 30-40 pt blowouts it wont be of much interest to other girls BBall fans nor will it do much for trying to raise the interest of the womans game as a whole..

 

[Icebear]

ciarlante, the arrogance here is your own need to lecture folks. Rocky who is hardly an arrogant poster by history offering a broad collection of ideas in a post. Ideas that are then debated by a variety of other Boneyarders. There is agreement on some things and alternative views on others. If your modus operandi is to look for constant offense you will have a miserable existense here. On the otherhand that may already be your natural state.

 

[EricLA]

More arrogance from the UCONN faithful..so no one can be great unless they play at UCONN.. where they would be surrounded by stars... I think anyone with half a basketball brain would realize that Elena created a legacy at Delaware (and nationally) as one of the best players EVER.. and is by far the most popular player on the scene these days (and guess what she shunned UCONN).. nobody on UCONN..not even Stewey , could go to Delaware and put them on the map like EDD..despite being a great achievement winning a NC is not the only goal of a collegiate athlete..this sounds like the reporters who judge QBs based on winning Super Bowls which would make Trent Dilfer a better QB than Dan Marino..maybe its a little more challenging to an athlete to try and be successful somewhere other than UCONN.. have fun playing in the new conference where it will be like the USA Team playing Panama..besides the UCONN faithful who love watching 30-40 pt blowouts it wont be of much interest to other girls BBall fans nor will it do much for trying to raise the interest of the womans game as a whole..

Rather an ignorant post.

First, UCONN fans feel that we have the best coaches in the nation. They prepare and develop players better than any other program. UCONN is always one of the most fit teams in the nation. This does not mean that other players can't go through other programs and become stars. There are tons of them in the WNBA. The Olympic team is not made up exclusively of UCONN players. However, UCONN coaches will push their talents beyond what most other programs will do.

Second, Rocky's last point was related to my above comment. There's a reason UCONN has won 8 NC's, etc etc. and why Geno is the best coach in the game. With very few exceptions, he develops players in every conceivable way to make them the best and most complete player they can be. There's a reason players like Kelly Schumacher, Jess Moore, Ashley Battle, Barb Turner, Ketia Swanier, Kalana Greene, Kelly Faris, etc. have carved out nice careers in the WNBA and "better" players from other schools could not.

Third, Stewie is the most talented player possibly ever. There simply is no one in the history of WCBB who can do what she can at her age. Put her on Delaware or any other little known WCBB team and she'd be every bit the super star EDD was. Stewie is more talented than EDD, Charles, Parker, Moore, Griner, and any other wing/forward type of player, none of who could do all the things Stewie could as a freshman, and she's just scratching the surface.

Fourth, I'm not sure what your point is about winning NC's. Of course it's not the highest goal of ALL college basketball players. But if a kid wants to win one or more, going to SC gives her an extremely slim chance. That's just a fact. And no one is saying that because a team wins a NC means player X is better than player Y who played at a school that did not win the NC.

Fifth, Edd "shunned" UCONN? Seriously? I guess technically that is correct, but it implies something negative. EDD realized she was horribly homesick, missed being close to her ill sister, and chose not even to play hoops her freshman year, focusing instead on volleyball. I'm not sure how an intensely personal decision can be viewed as some negative statement against UCONN, but it seems you were intent on trying.

Sixth, your sarcastic snarky comment about raising the interest in the game by UCONN faithful who "love watching 30-40 point blowouts" makes zero sense. Geno is the Olympic coach for 2 consecutive Olympics now. He's clearly not only the best in the game, but up there as the best of all time. He's a national name. He's done a ton to raise the interest in the game. You don't think the 90 game UCONN winning streak garnered national attention? Do you live in a cave?

Just like Griner and Baylor (and the "three to see") dominated the news last year, UCONN and Stewie/KML/Hartley/Dolson will dominate the discussion this year. Saying that A'ja going to SC would do more to "raise the interest of the woman's game as a whole" is just wrong. Altho it certainly would raise the interest in South Carolina. But as a whole? No.

 

[ciarlante]

anything not drinking the kool aid is labeled "ignorant"..which is where this post began...

 

[Outside Shot]

I have a TON of respect and admiration for players and people that have the courage to choose their own path and not follow others. Wherever that path may be.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

More arrogance from the UCONN faithful..so no one can be great unless they play at UCONN.. where they would be surrounded by stars... I think anyone with half a basketball brain would realize that Elena created a legacy at Delaware (and nationally) as one of the best players EVER.. and is by far the most popular player on the scene these days (and guess what she shunned UCONN).. nobody on UCONN..not even Stewey , could go to Delaware and put them on the map like EDD..despite being a great achievement winning a NC is not the only goal of a collegiate athlete..this sounds like the reporters who judge QBs based on winning Super Bowls which would make Trent Dilfer a better QB than Dan Marino..maybe its a little more challenging to an athlete to try and be successful somewhere other than UCONN.. have fun playing in the new conference where it will be like the USA Team playing Panama..besides the UCONN faithful who love watching 30-40 pt blowouts it wont be of much interest to other girls BBall fans nor will it do much for trying to raise the interest of the womans game as a whole..

Getting Delaware where it went this year leaves no legacy at Delaware. EDD is a terrific player, but she illustrates my point, rather than making it false. In no sense did I say or mean to imply that you can be great only at U Conn; your chances are enhanced in Geno's program. I am afraid your comprehension was clouded by your dislike of the program. Lastly, EDD did not shun U Conn; she was homesick and for a long time was sick of the game of BB and she could not face the commitment U Conn represented feeling the way she did. At the recent national minicamp she remarked how happy she was to finally get some coaching from Geno.

 

[EricLA]

anything not drinking the kool aid is labeled "ignorant"..which is where this post began...

LOL. Your posts are stupid and silly, and incredibly amusing. Kool Aid? Again, an ignorant and incorrect statement. Go get some facts, take a reading comprehension course, remove the hatred blinders, and then come back and have a conversation.

 

[Icebear]

anything not drinking the kool aid is labeled "ignorant"..which is where this post began...

There is no Koolaid in the Boneyard. We debate topics vigorously and with broadly divergent points of view. That you do not recognize this says vastly more about you than the Yard.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

anything not drinking the kool aid is labeled "ignorant"..which is where this post began...

A false premise is not spelled "ignorant". You know what they say about pointing fingers.

 

[doggydaddy]

More arrogance from the UCONN faithful..so no one can be great unless they play at UCONN.. where they would be surrounded by stars... I think anyone with half a basketball brain would realize that Elena created a legacy at Delaware (and nationally) as one of the best players EVER.. and is by far the most popular player on the scene these days (and guess what she shunned UCONN).. nobody on UCONN..not even Stewey , could go to Delaware and put them on the map like EDD..despite being a great achievement winning a NC is not the only goal of a collegiate athlete..this sounds like the reporters who judge QBs based on winning Super Bowls which would make Trent Dilfer a better QB than Dan Marino..maybe its a little more challenging to an athlete to try and be successful somewhere other than UCONN.. have fun playing in the new conference where it will be like the USA Team playing Panama..besides the UCONN faithful who love watching 30-40 pt blowouts it wont be of much interest to other girls BBall fans nor will it do much for trying to raise the interest of the womans game as a whole..

Actually, Griner and Parker are more popular according to jersey sales.

You are correct, maybe a player just wants to go somewhere other than Uconn. Guess what, it happens all the time.

But, if a player is choosing between USC and UConn, as is rumored, only one of those schools has a chance (a really good chance) to win an NC.

You do understand this is a UCONN fan site. Nah....you're not that bright.

 

[doggydaddy]

I have a TON of respect and admiration for players and people that have the courage to choose their own path and not follow others. Wherever that path may be.

I agree. I'm sure Wilson is getting tremendous pressure to stay home and help the local college.

I hope she has the courage to choose her own path. Where ever that might lead her.

 

[Icebear]

I have a TON of respect and admiration for players and people that have the courage to choose their own path and not follow others. Wherever that path may be.

Absolutely. At the same time for many of these kids it is about development and opening the doors to their future as professionals. Nowhere does that happen as consistently well as at UCONN.

 

[triaddukefan]

anything not drinking the kool aid is labeled "ignorant"..which is where this post began...

 

[triaddukefan]

There is no Koolaid in the Boneyard. We debate topics vigorously and with broadly divergent points of view. That you do not recognize this says vastly more about you than the Yard.

 

[msf22b]

I think it's good having a voice like ciarlante around.

Other than the swipe at UConn regarding EDD's departure (which IMHO had little directly to do with UConn), he makes two interesting points.

• That EDD created a legacy at UD is w/o a doubt. He opines that Stewie wouldn't have he same result and in a pure BB sense, I don't agree, their games are actually quite similar with Stewie being quicker and stronger on D with EDD more the pure shooter (even that may be argued as events unfold). But with regard Elena, there was the amazing back-story which infused all discussion and fascination with her; her rejection of things Ct, her local roots, the sister bit and her good looks, which certainly didn't hurt. But in a purely BB sense, Stewie might well have achieved a parallel result for Albany State, Bowdoin, or UVermont, Burlington…or South Carolina.
• The second issue is that of the conference, in which a lot of us fans hold our nose, freeze our brains and hope that the issue just goes away or that Tulane et al, suddenly become woman's BB powerhouses. It is true that even in the Big East, competition was for the most part negligible, and blow-outs common but the occasional tough games (even losses) did occur with St. John's Notre Dame and Rutgers of course, but also the interesting rivalries w West Virginia, Syracuse and Georgetown's physical play among others. Those tests will be sorely missed and the fact that the UConn brand will be extended to Texas, thereby enabling additional recruiting opps is small compensation.

So keep it coming Ciarlante, there'll be plenty of heat so if you're up to it your views will be vigorously discussed.

 

[SallyH]

More arrogance from the UCONN faithful..so no one can be great unless they play at UCONN.. where they would be surrounded by stars... I think anyone with half a basketball brain would realize that Elena created a legacy at Delaware (and nationally) as one of the best players EVER.. and is by far the most popular player on the scene these days (and guess what she shunned UCONN).. nobody on UCONN..not even Stewey , could go to Delaware and put them on the map like EDD..despite being a great achievement winning a NC is not the only goal of a collegiate athlete..this sounds like the reporters who judge QBs based on winning Super Bowls which would make Trent Dilfer a better QB than Dan Marino..maybe its a little more challenging to an athlete to try and be successful somewhere other than UCONN.. have fun playing in the new conference where it will be like the USA Team playing Panama..besides the UCONN faithful who love watching 30-40 pt blowouts it wont be of much interest to other girls BBall fans nor will it do much for trying to raise the interest of the womans game as a whole..

More arrogance from us? Sounds like more bitterness from you. I can't quite figure out why you don't seem to understand our loyalty to our team. It might seem arrogant to say we have the best team and the best players and the best coach, but it factually correct. I've been around the boneyard since 1999. I'm mostly a lurker because I live out of state, but I've never heard anyone here disparage a player for choosing another team. We wish them well and move on. No one has every diminished the talent of Griner, or EDD or Diggins (although many were annoyed by her attitude). The fact remains that if EDD hadn't transferred, she would have won at least two national championships. She transferred to Delaware and did not. That in no way diminished her greatness, which no one here questioned.

 

[Icebear]

msf, EDD did not reject things CT, she chose more important values than basketball and played near home. She has repeatedly said it wasn't about UCONN.

There is a vast difference between rejecting something and choosing something else.

 

[doggydaddy]

I think it's good having a voice like ciarlante around.

Other than the swipe at UConn regarding EDD's departure (which IMHO had little directly to do with UConn), he makes two interesting points.

• 
  [ ]That EDD created a legacy at UD is w/o a doubt. He opines that Stewie wouldn't have he same result and in a pure BB sense, I don't agree, their games are actually quite similar with Stewie being quicker and stronger on D with EDD more the pure shooter (even that may be argued as events unfold). But with regard Elena, there was the amazing back-story which infused all discussion and fascination with her; her rejection of things Ct, her local roots, the sister bit and her good looks, which certainly didn't hurt. But in a purely BB sense, Stewie might well have achieved a parallel result for Albany State, Bowdoin, or UVermont, Burlington…or South Carolina.
  [ ]The second issue is that of the conference, in which a lot of us fans hold our nose, freeze our brains and hope that the issue just goes away or that Tulane et al, suddenly become woman's BB powerhouses. It is true that even in the Big East, competition was for the most part negligible, and blow-outs common but the occasional tough games (even losses) did occur with St. John's Notre Dame and Rutgers of course, but also the interesting rivalries w West Virginia, Syracuse and Georgetown's physical play among others. Those tests will be sorely missed and the fact that the UConn brand will be extended to Texas, thereby enabling additional recruiting opps is small compensation.

So keep it coming Ciarlante, there'll be plenty of heat so if you're up to it your views will be vigorously discussed.

I guess I disagree on what legacy means.

How many top recruits followed EDD to Delaware? None.
Where is Delaware projected to be in the CAA, their conference for this coming season? 5th.

She was a great college player. GREAT. But she didn't leave a legacy IMO.