The ACC is worse off without Maryland than the other way around - Washington Post

[Zissou]

Yeah it sucks for schools like Iowa, Minnesota and Wisonsin to get additional exposure in the largest media market in te world. That and cashing 50 million dollar checks. Yep The Rutgers addition was a real killer.

NYC is all a buzz when Minnesota plays at Rutgers. The city empties into NJ for the spectacle.

 

[Ldandy]

NYC is all a buzz when Minnesota plays at Rutgers. The city empties into NJ for the spectacle.

I'd tell you that what you wrote has nothing to do with what I posted, but you already knew that.

 

[Zissou]

I'd tell you that what you wrote has nothing to do with what I posted, but you already knew that.

IMO, Rutgers is not a great path to the NYC media market. Notre Dame would be a better path to the NYC market.

Since you were replying to me with your statement, I'll be more direct and less sarcastic.

"Yeah it sucks for schools like Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin to get additional exposure in the largest media market in the world."

My opinion is that Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin do not get great exposure to the NYC Media Market through Rutgers. I hope that is clear enough to connect the dots to your original reply.

I'll stand by my original statement (to which you replied):
"The B1G is better off with Maryland, but they also took Rutgers, so overall the B1G is worse off".

 

[dayooper]

IMO, Rutgers is not a great path to the NYC media market. Notre Dame would be a better path to the NYC market.

Since you were replying to me with your statement, I'll be more direct and less sarcastic.

"Yeah it sucks for schools like Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin to get additional exposure in the largest media market in the world."

My opinion is that Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin do not get great exposure to the NYC Media Market through Rutgers. I hope that is clear enough to connect the dots to your original reply.

I'll stand by my original statement (to which you replied):
"The B1G is better off with Maryland, but they also took Rutgers, so overall the B1G is worse off".

Ehh . . . Rutgers is a net neutral. There are quite a few Big10 alumni in NYC, it give them an oppurtunity to see games and donate money. As far as exposure goes, Michigan, OSU and PSU playing Rutgers does bring a lot of exposure which, in turn, brings a degree of exposure to the rest of the Big10. It's all about association. Is it worth it? I really don't know since I'm stuck here in the freaking tundra that is Michigan the past few weeks. It is to the alumni that live in the area.

Rutgers athletics has been pretty rough, but they do spark a glimmer of hope every now anger again. Their record doesn't show it, but their bball team looks improved. They took MSU into overtime last week. Then they got hammered by OSU. Who knows?

 

[Zissou]

With Rutgers, which is the upside? Basketball or Football?

 

[dayooper]

With Rutgers, which is the upside? Basketball or Football?

Are talking exposure or teams. I think that football always will give the best exposure for the Big10, no matter market. Athletically, they have. The most potential in football just because of the talent in the state. Not sure Ash is the guy to get the job done.

 

[Zissou]

Are talking exposure or teams. I think that football always will give the best exposure for the Big10, no matter market. Athletically, they have. The most potential in football just because of the talent in the state. Not sure Ash is the guy to get the job done.

I just see them historically bad in both, and not bringing much to the B1G. Penn State was a get. Nebraska, yes. Maryland, sure.
Rutgers?

 

[dayooper]

I just see them historically bad in both, and not bringing much to the B1G. Penn State was a get. Nebraska, yes. Maryland, sure.
Rutgers?

They were most definitely not taken for athletics. They were taken for their market assets and alumni location (as was Maryland, but they at least have some basketball and football tradition). They do the job they were intended for: provide exposure in the NYC corridor, give the many Big10 alumni a game to go to every other year (many PSU, UM, OSU and Indiana alumni in the NYC area) and be in a great football recruiting area. Football will be a tough go in the Big10 East with four very good teams.

As far as being horrrible in sports, each division has to have teams at the bottom. As far as a doormat goes, you can't get much better than being the flagship school in a state of 9 million people in the largest market in the US. Yes, I would prefer a UConn over Rutgers, but I don't get to make that call and I understand why the Big10 did.

 

[Zissou]

They were most definitely not taken for athletics. They were taken for their market assets and alumni location (as was Maryland, but they at least have some basketball and football tradition). They do the job they were intended for: provide exposure in the NYC corridor, give the many Big10 alumni a game to go to every other year (many PSU, UM, OSU and Indiana alumni in the NYC area) and be in a great football recruiting area. Football will be a tough go in the Big10 East with four very good teams.

As far as being horrrible in sports, each division has to have teams at the bottom. As far as a doormat goes, you can't get much better than being the flagship school in a state of 9 million people in the largest market in the US. Yes, I would prefer a UConn over Rutgers, but I don't get to make that call and I understand why the Big10 did.

I just think they missed the boat. Like picking up NIU if want to claim the Chicago market.

 

[Adios]

I just think they missed the boat. Like picking up NIU if want to claim the Chicago market.

Are you seriously that daft? You know more people live along the coast than the Corn Belt, including freaking Chicago, which is on water, too, ironically?

Is Seton Hall a better add than Rutgers in your mind? The Big 10 also added John Hopkins. Were they supposed to pick Georgetown?? Freaking online psych ward.

 

[Ldandy]

IMO, Rutgers is not a great path to the NYC media market. Notre Dame would be a better path to the NYC market.

Since you were replying to me with your statement, I'll be more direct and less sarcastic.

"Yeah it sucks for schools like Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin to get additional exposure in the largest media market in the world."

My opinion is that Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin do not get great exposure to the NYC Media Market through Rutgers. I hope that is clear enough to connect the dots to your original reply.

I'll stand by my original statement (to which you replied):
"The B1G is better off with Maryland, but they also took Rutgers, so overall the B1G is worse off".

You miss the bigger picture. Prior to the inclusion of Rutgers in The Big Ten, The BTN was on the lowest tier of cable packages in NYC and on middle to lower tiers in the state of NJ. With Rutgers inclusion in the conference, The BTN jumped to a significantly higher tier in NYC, and onto some of the highest tiers in NJ. Programs like Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin that previously had little to no exposure in these markets suddenly had an outlet where their teams could be showcased to tens of millions of new viewers. Schools like those mentioned above were suddenly far more visible to millions of perspective students and student athletes that these schools are interested in recruiting. Whether or not Rutgers is terrible makes minimal difference here.

While the B1G would have loved to have Notre Dame, there is no evidence that their inclusion would have made The B1G more money under the current cable subscriber format that is in place. Maybe Delany could have leveraged NYC or NJ for a few more dollars but there was no guarantee. They could just as easily been counted as representing Indiana. That said they would certainly deliver value in any future Tier 1 Rights negotiation the conference would be involved in.

 

[Ldandy]

I just see them historically bad in both, and not bringing much to the B1G. Penn State was a get. Nebraska, yes. Maryland, sure.
Rutgers?

Quick multiple choice question for you.

Please select the answer that best describes The SEC's Inclusion of Missouri.

A)They wanted to add The Tigers above average football program.

B)They needed their middling basketball team to bring up the bottom third of the conference.

C)The conference desired to have the most schools with the nickname Tigers in the P5.

D)They wanted to add a good size media market to the conference footprint prior to the roll out of The SEC Network.

 

[Zissou]

Quick multiple choice question for you.

Please select the answer that best describes The SEC's Inclusion of Missouri.

A)They wanted to add The Tigers above average football program.

B)They needed their middling basketball team to bring up the bottom third of the conference.

C)The conference desired to have the most schools with the nickname Tigers in the P5.

D)They wanted to add a good size media market to the conference footprint prior to the roll out of The SEC Network.

Rutgers<<<<Mizzou

 

[Zissou]

Are you seriously that daft? You know more people live along the coast than the Corn Belt, including freaking Chicago, which is on water, too, ironically?

Is Seton Hall a better add than Rutgers in your mind? The Big 10 also added John Hopkins. Were they supposed to pick Georgetown?? Freaking online psych ward.

Seton Hall might be a better add than Rutgers. The Hall would have to suit up their soccer team to compete with Rutgers football, but other than that...

The comparison is picking Newark and Rutgers to claim the NYC market. Not quite a home run in my opinion. Like picking a school that is near, but not in, Chicago to claim the Chicago market. A school without much of an established winning athletic program.

 

[Ldandy]

Rutgers<<<<Mizzou

Not at delivering a conference money, and that's what both of these schools were added to their respective sides to do.

 

[Zissou]

Not at delivering a conference money, and that's what both of these schools were added to their respective sides to do.

When the Mission gets set to the side to chase cash, it doesn't always work out so well.

 

[Fishy]

With Rutgers, which is the upside? Basketball or Football?

It doesn’t actually matter.

You don’t add Rutgers for what they do on the field - historically, Rutgers has been awful at everything and often enough they’re actually historically bad at everything. But as soon as Nielsen drew up the designated market areas and lumped New Jersey in with New York City, the die was cast.

The Big Ten needs an entity in the market. I think Notre Dame’s influence is vastly overrated these days, but even if it wasn’t, adding them doesn’t affect carriage rates in the New York market because Notre Dame isn’t in it - the physical address is the only thing that matters.

 

[Zissou]

It doesn’t actually matter.

You don’t add Rutgers for what they do on the field - historically, Rutgers has been awful at everything and often enough they’re actually historically bad at everything. But as soon as Nielsen drew up the designated market areas and lumped New Jersey in with New York City, the die was cast.

The Big Ten needs an entity in the market. I think Notre Dame’s influence is vastly overrated these days, but even if it wasn’t, adding them doesn’t affect carriage rates in the New York market because Notre Dame isn’t in it - the physical address is the only thing that matters.

I understand why they did it, I just disagree that it was a good decision. They added a weak program while chasing a cable model that is likely late in its life cycle. The Rutgers membership is likely much longer in the end than the current subscription model. In the end they added a bottom feeder.

I think it's more of a brand dilution for the B1G than an add. Of course it's a lottery win for Rutgers.

Actual viewers may matter more in the future than the physical address of one outlier.

UConn would have been a better add.

 

[Ldandy]

Seton Hall might be a better add than Rutgers. The Hall would have to suit up their soccer team to compete with Rutgers football, but other than that...

The comparison is picking Newark and Rutgers to claim the NYC market. Not quite a home run in my opinion. Like picking a school that is near, but not in, Chicago to claim the Chicago market. A school without much of an established winning athletic program.

Bro this isn't rocket science. Some things are what they are regardless of what your opinion is.

 

[Zissou]

Bro this isn't rocket science. Some things are what they are regardless of what your opinion is.

Referencing your map... NIU, like Rutgers, is outside of its famous city but within its DMA (TV market map).

I think this is over your head.

 

[Ldandy]

Referencing your map... NIU, like Rutgers, is outside of its famous city but within its DMA (TV market map).

I think this is over your head.

LOL. I'll tell that to the boys I worked with at VNU for a decade. They'll get a nice chuckle out of that.

 

[Zissou]

LOL. I'll tell that to the boys I worked with at VNU for a decade. They'll get a nice chuckle out of that.

Then you understand the comparison? (and that your map provides no differentiation to the analogy).

 

[Ldandy]

Then you understand the comparison? (and that your map provides no differentiation to the analogy).

No it proves that it is irrelevant that Rutgers is located in NJ. They get credit for being in the NYC DMA. Agree or not it doesn't matter. The B1G gets paid accordingly for adding them.

 

[Zissou]

No it proves that it is irrelevant that Rutgers is located in NJ. They get credit for being in the NYC DMA. Agree or not it doesn't matter. The B1G gets paid accordingly for adding them.

Then it's like adding NIU to get the Chicago market. I get it now. It took me a second.

 

[Sky ball]

I lived in DC too. They love their Redskins, that is for sure. After that, the next big thing is the Caps and Bullets.... I mean Wizards. But the later two are not nearly as bg IMO. In pockets of the ritzy upper NW, you will see some GTown fans/people with gear, but not often. You tend to see people with hats and jerseys from around the country: Not uncommon to see Michigan, USC, Florida, Cuse, etc. in the span of minutes. So with that said, not a heck of a lot of people cared too much about UMaryland. Yah, when I got out into the farflung places of the green line or Silver Spring/R'ville on the red you would see some stuff, but not a lot.

You have been away a long time. Redskins #1 but Nats right behind then caps/wiz

 

[Ldandy]

Then it's like adding NIU to get the Chicago market. I get it now. It took me a second.

Sure they would probably qualify as being in that DMA. That said you still have to negotiate actual deals with the cable companies in those markets. Good luck getting them to pay up for the addition. There's a reason why conferences don't actually do what you are suggesting.

 

[Zissou]

Sure they would probably qualify as being in that DMA. That said you still have to negotiate actual deals with the cable companies in those markets. Good luck getting them to pay up for the addition. There's a reason why conferences don't actually do what you are suggesting.

Right, which is why I think Rutgers is a bad deal. They are technically in the DMA. They will get some cash, in the near term anyway, but they are not a home run. They dilute the brand by adding an inferior program at the bottom.

They married Rutgers for short term cash and there is not a divorce escape hatch.

 

[Travelman6]

You have been away a long time. Redskins #1 but Nats right behind then caps/wiz

No, I was not thinking about baseball. Yah, the Nats when they are good and redskins are about equal. Skins in PG are HUGE, #1 for sure. Among young frats boys in the NW and SW, nats are BIG.

 

[Ldandy]

Right, which is why I think Rutgers is a bad deal. They are technically in the DMA. They will get some cash, in the near term anyway, but they are not a home run. They dilute the brand by adding an inferior program at the bottom.

They married Rutgers for short term cash and there is not a divorce escape hatch.

Your opinion that adding Rutgers was a bad deal for The B1G is just that, an opinion. Rutgers as a university met all of the metrics that the conference was looking for as an expansion candidate.

Large Land Grant State University.
AAU
Contiguous to a current conference member.
Located in a targeted media market.
Desirable area for recruiting both students and student athletes.
Large and diversified athletic dept. 30+ sponsored teams.

The fact that under the current media deals they were able to leverage providers for favorable deals made it all the better.

There were very few programs that met all of the desired metrics for conference membership and were looking for a home in a new conference when expansion was happening. The only schools I would put above Rutgers as desired expansion candidates for The B1G back in 2012 were ND, Texas, UNC and maybe UVA. None of those schools were truly available. It made sense to add RU Then and it still does now.

 

[Zissou]

Your opinion that adding Rutgers was a bad deal for The B1G is just that, an opinion.

Obviously yes, that is just my opinion. It's opposite of your's I guess, which is still just an opinion.