Terry Larrier transferring

[OkaForPrez]

@Pmurph678 a few counterpoints. I would argue that a 1 and done, and let's use stone in this case, is typically touted as such far more because of their raw abilities than their polished game. Think Freshman Andre Drummond and the things he could do that nobody else on the planet can and then the tools he didn't have at that time that only come with experience. We can watch stone next year vs. what we get out of Miller, maybe I'll be dead wrong on this, but I don't think the gap will be as much as you think, particularly for our needs (defense, rebounding, timely shooting). And since we assume both will only be around a year, maybe not as big a loss as we think.

Secondly, let's not pretend like we don't have quite a few 4 year guys developing in the program right now and guys behind them to develop:

Facey, Enoch
Omar, Tsam, Sam

As well as potential early pros in Hamiton, Adams and Purvis.

I don't have a problem with our stud : home grown role player : 5th year plug ratio at all, particularly when we are still trying to rebuild from some lost years during the coach transition and ban.

 

[Pmurph678]

1. Would I rather have a 4 year player or an equivalent 1 year player? Of course I'd rather have an equivalent 4 year player. Of course the base of the plan has to be four year players. I'm hoping we got one great one and one really good one. And two each year, with "pieces" around them -- from whatever method -- is enough.

2. One and done's are different because they are great future NBAers? They are different. But ask me this -- which UConn one and doner had a greater impact on making his UConn team better than it would have been without him -- Drummond or Kromah? Because I'll not only answer Kromah but tell you it wasn't even close.

I would take a freshman Drummond to a senior Kromah.

I agree 5th year transfers can be extremely valuable, but I would always prefer an elite high school recruit to a 5th year transfer.

 

[8893]

Seriously? Are you implying that the NBA talent on your team is irrelevant?

I understand NBA talent does not determine who the better player is in college every time, but to disregard it altogether is ignorant.

I am not implying it, I am stating it directly.

Please list our one-and-dones who left after one year for the NBA. If I'm not mistaken, that list begins and ends with Drummond. If Stone came here he apparently would have been another one. Sight unseen, I'll take a Lasan Kroman or Shonn Miller every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[djct1999]

Do we have any intel on whether or not Kiah Stokes is following him on twitter?

 

[Stainmaster]

It depends what you're looking for. If you want to send players to the NBA and hype up your team's street cred, you go for the one-and-done. But I have no doubt that a grad transfer with the right fit can be much more beneficial for a team's postseason performance.

 

[Pmurph678]

@Pmurph678 a few counterpoints. I would argue that a 1 and done, and let's use stone in this case, is typically touted as such far more because of their raw abilities than their polished game. Think Freshman Andre Drummond and the things he could do that nobody else on the planet can and then the tools he didn't have at that time that only come with experience. We can watch stone next year vs. what we get out of Miller, maybe I'll be dead wrong on this, but I don't think the gap will be as much as you think, particularly for our needs (defense, rebounding, timely shooting). And since we assume both will only be around a year, maybe not as big a loss as we think.

Secondly, let's not pretend like we don't have quite a few 4 year guys developing in the program right now and guys behind them to develop:

Facey, Enoch
Omar, Tsam, Sam

As well as potential early pros in Hamiton, Adams and Purvis.

I don't have a problem with our stud : home grown role player : 5th year plug ratio at all, particularly when we are still trying to rebuild from some lost years during the coach transition and ban.

I agree with everything you said. I like our future, and don't believe the sky is falling when it comes to recruiting.

Like most things, it's not black and white. Are recruiting has been OK, but not where it needs to be. Obviously far from terrible though and we have plenty of pieces to build around.

I am not implying it, I am stating it directly.

Please list our one-and-dones who left after one year for the NBA. If I'm not mistaken, that list begins and ends with Drummond. If Stone came here he apparently would have been another one. Sight unseen, I'll take a Lasan Kroman or Shonn Miller every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I just watched a final 4 led by multiple one and dones, not grad transfers.

 

[Stainmaster]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I just watched a final 4 lead by multiple one and dones, not grad transfers.

Well when you can't get the one-and-dones, you have to make do with what's around. It bothers some that we're scrounging for spare parts, but given the circumstances what else should we do? "Get the top targets" isn't an option -- they're signed to play elsewhere.

 

[8893]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I just watched a final 4 led by multiple one and dones, not grad transfers.

Will you enjoy the 2016 Final Four any less if it is led by a team playing two grad transfers?

 

[CallMeBruce]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I just watched a final 4 led by multiple one and dones, not grad transfers.

This is beyond stupid.

 

[Fishy]

Agreed. But I think we will have to be a bit more creative in the AAC.

Agreed.

 

[Pmurph678]

This is beyond stupid.

Why?

 

[Pmurph678]

Will you enjoy the 2016 Final Four any less if it is led by a team playing two grad transfers?

Of course not, it's just never happened before.

 

[businesslawyer]

I would take a freshman Drummond to a senior Kromah.

I agree 5th year transfers can be extremely valuable, but I would always prefer an elite high school recruit to a 5th year transfer.

Then with all due respect, as to your first point,you don't know basketball. Because Drummond in his one year did not make the team better at all (not his fault, but that team would have been better without him), while Kromah was the spark that made the '14 championship by showing everyone else what it looked like when you subordinated your numbers to helping the team win.

Was Drummon in 11-12 better than Kromah in 13-14. By light years. But did he do as much towards making his team better as Kromah did? Not even close.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Why?

Duke won a title this year with major contributions from one-and-done freshman. That is not a trend, and you should not treat it as such. If Wisconsin had pulled it out, would that mean that one-and-dones don't work?

The key to winning in college basketball is to have good players on your team. Whether those players are one-and-dones or veteran players, and whether those veteran players are transfers or were recruited out of high school, does not change your ability to win games.

 

[upstater]

Specifically, about Larrier, UConn needs a SF for when DHam leaves, and it would be good to have someone ready to go.

I know they are in on Kegler and VJ King, but there will be stiff competition for those two. Im sure Bruce Brown and Diarra/Diallo (sorry, forget which is which) could also play some 3, but you saw how effective DHam's height made him.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

It depends what you're looking for. If you want to send players to the NBA and hype up your team's street cred, you go for the one-and-done. But I have no doubt that a grad transfer with the right fit can be much more beneficial for a team's postseason performance.

Yes, teams like Kentucky and Duke sign top-5 players not for their ability, but for the "street cred." If they really wanted to win in the postseason - notwithstanding that Duke is the defending national champion and Kentucky has been to 80% of the last 5 final fours - they would shift their focus to transfers from mid-majors.

 

[Kembacity]

Yes, actually, but not the point. The expectations on KO are absurd. I have no reason to think we're getting Larrier, but if we got our two frosh, Miller and Gibbs for 1 year and Larrier for 3, that's a great class. A few points.

1. You can only grade a class once, when recruiting is done, even putting aside you don't know how they actually play for years. This "strong start" bs is simply internet bulletin board drivel.
.

I like the cut of your jib, it's like people out there can be morose and sad about everything if they look hard enough for the right gray lining, but why?? I'd much rather choose to live in a world where you get excited about the prospects of adding another player rather than playing devil's advocate at every, single, turn

 

[HuskyFich]

Does the fact that our coaches are on these guys before announcing they are transferring mean anything? All these reports mention teams jumping in on Gibbs/Larrier, but it seems we are way ahead of the curve in this aspect.

 

[Stainmaster]

Yes, teams like Kentucky and Duke sign top-5 players not for their ability, but for the "street cred." If they really wanted to win in the postseason - notwithstanding that Duke is the defending national champion and Kentucky has been to 80% of the last 5 final fours - they would shift their focus to transfers from mid-majors.

I'm talking when you have one spot available. Save for that team in '03 who will not be named, you only win with one-and-dones when you go all in with them, i.e. Kentucky under Calipari and Duke this past year. When you're trying to find the missing piece of a puzzle, you look for things like consistency, a knack for clutch plays, and smart defense. Kromah provided those in a way that a one-and-done couldn't.

But yes, you're right, transfers from mid-majors are beneath us and it's ridiculous to be expecting that they make any sort of tangible impact.

 

[Gurleyman]

Of course not, it's just never happened before.

We've won four titles and been to five Final Fours and never had a one and done on those teams (Lamb and CV are the only two and dones). We have won with a grad transfer.

Our model wasn't necessarily better than Kentucky's because we won in 2014. And Duke's wasn't necessarily better than Wisky's because they won. What matters is that you find the model that works at your school - the loaded class of freshmen on a fast track to the NBA worked once for Michigan, and it works now for Kentucky and Duke. Ohio State also had a run at it with the Oden/Conley class.

But is that model going to work for anyone else other than UK and Duke? There are usually less than 10 one and dones a year and you have to get them year after year to sustain that model. Developing a good nucleus and plugging in a hole or two with grad transfers when you need to seems more sustainable to me at the other 350 DI schools.

We are also dipping into that well now because certain guys - Facey, Cassell, Calhoun and to some degree Samuel (who wasn't as highly regarded coming in as the others) - had ample chances to establish themselves as integral parts of our nucleus and didn't take advantage of it. So our short term needs are greater than we had projected this time last year. Adams-Purvis-Hamilton is a nucleus of top 25 recruits with Brimah a successful find as a diamond in the rough role player. Now we are trying to surround them with guys who can help us win now. Ideally, any number of those four improve enough (or are good enough right away in Adams' case) to think about leaving after this year - so the grad transfer route helps us make a go of it right now.

 

[Inyatkin]

I'm just enjoying seeing RJ Evans lumped in with our run of grad transfer wins.

 

[businesslawyer]

I like the cut of your jib, it's like people out there can be morose and sad about everything if they look hard enough for the right gray lining, but why?? I'd much rather choose to live in a world where you get excited about the prospects of adding another player rather than playing devil's advocate at every, single, turn

Someone please fill in the blank for me: "BusinessLawyer is too old by ___ decades to have any clue what Kembacity was posting."

 

[Gurleyman]

I'm just enjoying seeing RJ Evans lumped in with our run of grad transfer wins.

Evans should be disregarded entirely. We were going on probation and losing players left and right. He was a guy willing to come and just soak up minutes in a dead end year while getting a free year of grad school. Unique circumstances.

 

[Huskybass]

We've won four titles and been to five Final Fours and never had a one and done on those teams (Lamb and CV are the only two and dones). We have won with a grad transfer.

Our model wasn't necessarily better than Kentucky's because we won in 2014. And Duke's wasn't necessarily better than Wisky's because they won. What matters is that you find the model that works at your school - the loaded class of freshmen on a fast track to the NBA worked once for Michigan, and it works now for Kentucky and Duke. Ohio State also had a run at it with the Oden/Conley class.

But is that model going to work for anyone else other than UK and Duke? There are usually less than 10 one and dones a year and you have to get them year after year to sustain that model. Developing a good nucleus and plugging in a hole or two with grad transfers when you need to seems more sustainable to me at the other 350 DI schools.

We are also dipping into that well now because certain guys - Facey, Cassell, Calhoun and to some degree Samuel (who wasn't as highly regarded coming in as the others) - had ample chances to establish themselves as integral parts of our nucleus and didn't take advantage of it. So our short term needs are greater than we had projected this time last year. Adams-Purvis-Hamilton is a nucleus of top 25 recruits with Brimah a successful find as a diamond in the rough role player. Now we are trying to surround them with guys who can help us win now. Ideally, any number of those four improve enough (or are good enough right away in Adams' case) to think about leaving after this year - so the grad transfer route helps us make a go of it right now.

Drummond was a one and done and Caron was a two and done. That said, I really like the veteran leadership the grad transfers provide.

 

[businesslawyer]

I'm just enjoying seeing RJ Evans lumped in with our run of grad transfer wins.

RJ Evans, at a high Major level, was outmatched physically. On the other hand, if you want to ask whether RJ Evan's presence in 12-13 make us a materially better team than we would have been without him, the answer is absolutely yes. He contributed to some wins (against lower level competition and then at the end against Providence) with his play, but his leadership all year was a key part of what made that team exceed expectations.

 

[johnhuskies95]

Because Drummond in his one year did not make the team better at all (not his fault, but that team would have been better without him).

Not to derail this thread even further, but what exactly is the basis for this?

 

[upstater]

Does the fact that our coaches are on these guys before announcing they are transferring mean anything? All these reports mention teams jumping in on Gibbs/Larrier, but it seems we are way ahead of the curve in this aspect.

Larrier has not been released. No one is on him. At least I hope not.

 

[Gurleyman]

Drummond was a one and done and Caron was a two and done. That said, I really like the veteran leadership the grad transfers provide.

I edited my post since i originally worded it poorly. I meant no one and dones on the teams that won titles (or went to the Final Four).

 

[Chief00]

Quite frankly, you should average 3 guys a year out of HS then replace and grad transfers and other transfers offset guys you lose for NBA, academics, trouble and guys leaving for playing time.

 

[nomar]

Here comes UConn!!!

Here's a pic of Ollie, Miller and K-Free on the recruiting trail.