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Tennessee Lady Vols

JellyBean said:
My heart goes out to Coach Harper. She is a solid coach. I am not sure what is going on with the Lady Vols.
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What makes her “solid”? If you watched both the duke and the Vols game, you see that the Vols missed out by not offering the farm to hire Lawson. Lawson is building, can’t say the same about Harper.
What’s going on is that other than Jackson, the team lacks talent. That is due to horrible recruiting. Compare Lawsons recruits to the recruits of Harper. I think Lawson knows how to close the deal.
 
LAWDAWG said:
What makes her “solid”? If you watched both the duke and the Vols game, you see that the Vols missed out by not offering the farm to hire Lawson. Lawson is building, can’t say the same about Harper.
What’s going on is that other than Jackson, the team lacks talent. That is due to horrible recruiting. Compare Lawsons recruits to the recruits of Harper. I think Lawson knows how to close the deal.
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Exactly. The chants of "fahr Harper" are loud and clear on the Tennessee board. They were so eager to get rid of Warlick that they completely overlooked the tremendous recruiting she did, starting with convincing Russell to come to Tenn before her freshman year but right after Pat retired.

Holly always had a stable full of top 10 and top 20 recruits. But she ran the same offense as Pat - dribble the ball around, chuck up a shot, most of the time it won't go in, so crash the boards. But at least Holly could recruit.

Now you have Kelly running the same offense, but with no athletic players in the post, and they don't have the athletes (or discipline) to play really good man to man defense for any length of time.

Side note I don't really know why Tennessee fans have their knickers in a twist - they have lost to all teams they "should" have (ND, Indiana, Florida State, and Ohio State), and they have a nice win over Oklahoma. Tennessee is right on the cusp of top 25, and their record bears that out.
 
MilfordHusky said:
LVs drop to 4-4 after being pasted by OSU. That could drop them out of the rankings. But they have 4 cupcakes coming up and should get to 8-4.
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Reality check. Will UCONN keep their rankings in the top 25?
 
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EricLA said:
Exactly. The chants of "fahr Harper" are loud and clear on the Tennessee board. They were so eager to get rid of Warlick that they completely overlooked the tremendous recruiting she did, starting with convincing Russell to come to Tenn before her freshman year but right after Pat retired.

Holly always had a stable full of top 10 and top 20 recruits. But she ran the same offense as Pat - dribble the ball around, chuck up a shot, most of the time it won't go in, so crash the boards. But at least Holly could recruit.

Now you have Kelly running the same offense, but with no athletic players in the post, and they don't have the athletes (or discipline) to play really good man to man defense for any length of time.

Side note I don't really know why Tennessee fans have their knickers in a twist - they have lost to all teams they "should" have (ND, Indiana, Florida State, and Ohio State), and they have a nice win over Oklahoma. Tennessee is right on the cusp of top 25, and their record bears that out.
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Really, where then is UCONN right now? If Tenn on the cusp, where is UCONN right now? Because in my eyes Tenn is way far from the cusp of top 25.
 
Darwin said:
Really, where then is UCONN right now? If Tenn on the cusp, where is UCONN right now? Because in my eyes Tenn is way far from the cusp of top 25.
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First, I was talking about Tennessee, not UCONN. Second, we started the season ranked #2, Tennessee was #11. Third, Tennessee has 4 losses, even tho they were good losses, that may well push them out of the top 25. If you look at last week's rankings, Tenn was 20 and has 2 losses since then. UCONN was #11 and has had just 1 loss. So really, I'm not sure of your point. But because you are asking, I think UConn is on the cusp of the top 20 at this time. Not sure we beat anyone in the top 20, but we will see...

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EricLA said:
First, I was talking about Tennessee, not UCONN. Second, we started the season ranked #2, Tennessee was #11. Third, Tennessee has 4 losses, even tho they were good losses, that may well push them out of the top 25. If you look at last week's rankings, Tenn was 20 and has 2 losses since then. UCONN was #11 and has had just 1 loss. So really, I'm not sure of your point. But because you are asking, I think UConn is on the cusp of the top 20 at this time. Not sure we beat anyone in the top 20, but we will see...

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Do you see any 3 or 4 loss teams in the top 25 rankings?
 
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Tennessee has some real issues with Harper having such mediocre season with such a great program. If you are trending up then you can weather this but Harper's teams are not trending up. They are trending down with their seasonal expectations. She will need a deep run in the tournament to keep the fan base happy and even that might not do it. She seems to be in over her head but that happens to coaches who go to their alma mater. It seems the pressure of it being "their" school doesn't allow them to take it slow and build. They get judged harsher by the fans and themselves. It's home and they feel the pressure.
 
jumpstart said:
Tennessee has some real issues with Harper having such mediocre season with such a great program. If you are trending up then you can weather this but Harper's teams are not trending up. They are trending down with their seasonal expectations. She will need a deep run in the tournament to keep the fan base happy and even that might not do it. She seems to be in over her head but that often happens to coaches who go to their alma mater. It seems the pressure of it being "their" school doesn't allow them to take it slow and build. They get judged harsher by the fans and themselves. It's home and they feel the pressure.
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I might suggest adding an "often" to your post when referring to alumnae who return to take over their alma mater's sports programs. There are exceptions: Niele Ivey, while not quite at the Final Four level that Muffet McGraw was performing at most of her last decade at Notre Dame, has the Irish on the upgrade. Now, one could argue that Niele has really never left ND, save for a stint in the pro's and (less than) one year in the NBA.
However, the pressure's there, but she was well-trained, learns quickly and had/has the support of her AD and predecessor. Plus, the kids she's recruited have performed.

Your post is instructive, though: While you can go home (again), it's not often the same as you imagined it when you were a kid...or a player.
 
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jumpstart said:
Tennessee has some real issues with Harper having such mediocre season with such a great program. If you are trending up then you can weather this but Harper's teams are not trending up. They are trending down with their seasonal expectations. She will need a deep run in the tournament to keep the fan base happy and even that might not do it. She seems to be in over her head but that happens to coaches who go to their alma mater. It seems the pressure of it being "their" school doesn't allow them to take it slow and build. They get judged harsher by the fans and themselves. It's home and they feel the pressure.
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Doesn't help that the Lady Vol fanbase really want to see the program get back to the level of their glory days. Going back to your alma mater is tough enough as it is, but with a program with the history it has, it makes it that much harder.
 
It is hard to pinpoint exactly where Coach Harper goes wrong, because she seems to do all the rights things yet achieves middling results. I hope this analogy makes sense...it's like she is a B/C student who is expected to be an A/B student. She tries her hardest to meet expectation and does an average to good job in everything she does, but she doesn't have that spark of "greatness".
 
LAWDAWG said:
What makes her “solid”? If you watched both the duke and the Vols game, you see that the Vols missed out by not offering the farm to hire Lawson. Lawson is building, can’t say the same about Harper.
What’s going on is that other than Jackson, the team lacks talent. That is due to horrible recruiting. Compare Lawsons recruits to the recruits of Harper. I think Lawson knows how to close the deal.
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Good points. What makes Coach Harper to me is going to be different for you. I have worked a few basketball camps with her over the years and her heart is in the right place. She is trying to develop players and with the Lady Vols, trying to rebuild the program. I get that her biggest challenge is recruiting, like any coach out there. She will land that key recruit that will hopefully spark an interest in others to join the Lady Vols program.

Funny you bring up Lawson. Huge fan and love what she is doing for Duke. Folks were and still are critical of Coach Lawson and her coaching style and folks are still critical of Coach Lawson and her recruiting, even though she is landing some solid players.
 
I've always supported UT from the glory days of Pat and would like to see them get back to a top 10 type program, but it doesn't look as though it will happen under Harper's watch. I really wanted Holly to succeed but saw the team moving backwards even after bringing in some great recruits. When she was relieved of her duties it was the right call.

I thought Harper was a good, not great, hire but one the school seemed destined to make. I've used the phrase "stopped the bleeding" because she did in fact get them back on stable ground but now in year 5 there seems to be no upward trajectory, plus the recruiting has been abysmal. Right now she doesn't have the players on the roster to compete with top program and that's what the fan base and alumni want.

UT still has a tremendous amount of support and history. The patience is wearing thin and I've pretty much reached the conclusion this is who Harper is unless she makes significant adjustments to her staff and philosophy. The AD has a tough job this spring to evaluate if she will get another chance or if she will be told to move on.
 
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cancontent said:
Doesn't help that the Lady Vol fanbase really want to see the program get back to the level of their glory days. Going back to your alma mater is tough enough as it is, but with a program with the history it has, it makes it that much harder.
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That is why I feel for Coach Harper. She is facing unrealistic expectations & fans want instant success and I get it but sometimes it takes a moment.
 
JellyBean said:
Good points. What makes Coach Harper to me is going to be different for you. I have worked a few basketball camps with her over the years and her heart is in the right place. She is trying to develop players and with the Lady Vols, trying to rebuild the program. I get that her biggest challenge is recruiting, like any coach out there. She will land that key recruit that will hopefully spark an interest in others to join the Lady Vols program.

Funny you bring up Lawson. Huge fan and love what she is doing for Duke. Folks were and still are critical of Coach Lawson and her coaching style and folks are still critical of Coach Lawson and her recruiting, even though she is landing some solid players.
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Getting good/great players is tantamount in this day and age, particularly when you're trying to get traction to go upwards.

But what are you looking for in recruiting? The "all stars" that are glimmering? Players that buy into your mission/your style of ball? The five stars aren't there all the time.

You bring up 'trying to develop players" and "land the recruit that key recruit." Well, on the surface level:

  • Last year the team had Jordan Hairston and Rickea Jackson, five-star recruits who are in/going to be in the pro's, which should draw a certain type of player. Those two dominated the team offensively and Jackson was probably going to do the same until she was injured.
  • So, did those two lead to getting Jewell Spear, Jasmine Powell and Destinee Wells, leaders on Wake Forest, Minnesota and Belmont, respectively? Were they looking to take the next step up individually and/or collectively? At this point, I doubt any of those three are getting the return on the ticket to Rocky Top they expected.
  • And recruiting-wise, Harper landed a five-star recruit in Justine Pissot (a legacy, I believe) from New Jersey who played for the Philly Belles/Rise program. She left after one year and now is working in Shea Ralph's program at Vandy, where she's started six of seven ballgames. If you're looking for a smart, tall, long-range shooter, this was your kid.
  • So, I think Harper is grabbing a lot of shiny parts and hoping the sum of it works. But I'm not sure it will because 5th year seniors with pro aspirations are radically going to change their games.

Coach Harper might benefit from talks with coaches who have set recognizable goals and built personnel to fit those (hello, Coach Ivey, Coach Lawson...even a Katie Meier, who doesn't get the talent Harper does but does wonders with the people she brings in.)


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I will be watching tonight's game against Middle Tennessee with interest. A chance to right the ship for Tennessee...but Rick Insell always has Middle Tennessee prepared and ready to play. Intriguing game, for sure.
 
JellyBean said:
Good points. What makes Coach Harper to me is going to be different for you. I have worked a few basketball camps with her over the years and her heart is in the right place. She is trying to develop players and with the Lady Vols, trying to rebuild the program. I get that her biggest challenge is recruiting, like any coach out there. She will land that key recruit that will hopefully spark an interest in others to join the Lady Vols program.

Funny you bring up Lawson. Huge fan and love what she is doing for Duke. Folks were and still are critical of Coach Lawson and her coaching style and folks are still critical of Coach Lawson and her recruiting, even though she is landing some solid players.
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Good points also. Since you’ve worked close with Coach Harper you’d know much more than I would. Now this next thought is totally mine alone and I have nothing to qualify it with. I would be willing to bet the farm that although both Harper and Lawson are “loved” by their respective players, I get the feeling Lawson gets more respect as a coach. That maybe why she is landing recruits. Players don’t always want a friend, real players want to be coached. I get the feeling the Tennessee players control that camp. Can you imagine Lawson’s notoriety (TV) and the Tennessee history together. She would have player beating down the door to restore that legendary program.
 
JellyBean said:
That is why I feel for Coach Harper. She is facing unrealistic expectations & fans want instant success and I get it but sometimes it takes a moment.
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5 years > a moment.

Now, there has been some success, such as being second or third in the SEC standings each season, making the SEC tournament finals last season. Making a few SS’s. But altogether, if you gauge her results against her predecessor’s, she is actually behind in many respects. And like her predecessor, the direction of the program seems to have stalled or even slipped over time so her job security is likely not a given without a turn around this season. How anyone could struggle to recruit even adequately at a place like Tenn is perplexing. And she has failed miserably as a recruiter. She has saved her skin the past few years by having success in the portal, and that probably isn’t sustainable.
 
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Wow. double digit loss to a mid-major. A solid mid-major, but still. Out-shot and out-rebounded. Can't imagine what it's like over on the Tennessee board. Fahr Holly will continue to grow I imagine.

Lawson is starting to roll at Duke. Any chance Tennessee could lure her away?
 
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Almost unbelievable. They need to consider a change at UT after this season, it’s not working.
 
EricLA said:
Wow. double digit loss to a mid-major. A solid mid-major, but still. Out-shot and out-rebounded. Can't imagine what it's like over on the Tennessee board. Fahr Holly will continue to grow I imagine.

Lawson is starting to roll at Duke. Any chance Tennessee could lure her away?
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Not a chance...UT blew it the 1st time around
 
Good news: Karoline Striplin scored 29 points tonight for the Vols.
Bad news:
  • She scored nearly half of the Vols' points in the 73-62 loss to Middle Tennessee State.
  • Not one other Vol scored in double figures: 0...zip...nada.
  • Jewell Spear played nearly 30 minutes, shot 1-6 from the field and probably is still wondering why she left Winston-Salem. Remember, this is a player who regularly represents her country on national teams.

Yes, Rickea Jackson is out, but there's no way this team should be playing at this level. This board is very familar with teams that are still fighting the good fight without stars and/or multiple injuries (see Huskies, UConn; Irish, Notre Dame for two examples).
 
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