Tenn down 43-35 to Chatt in 2nd half (merged)

[Outside Shot]

eric, very interesting points about the "talent" that is there on the Tenn roster. I had the same thought. You never know how things will pan out. Many of those kids were also USA Basketball selections or at least in the pool of candidates. Not only USA Basketball, but also the Glenn Nelsons, Mike Flynns, Brandon Clays, Keil Moores, Chris Hansens of the world repeatedly told us how good they were and that they were the cream of the crop. It is such an inexact science. You never know exactly what may lie behind rankings. I can think of other recent teams where classes of highly touted recruits didn't really work out.

All that being said, maybe Tenn. will get it together? I actually think Coach Warlick seems like a decent person. I love what she's done in the fight vs. cancer. It is reasonable to expect an adjustment period. It's also reality that road games are not easy for 90%+ of teams. Not many BCS teams would schedule an away game at UT-Chatt.

 

[vtcwbuff]

" . . . . based on everything I've read and the box score, it's just more of the same only worse for Tennessee."

There have been several comments about lack of assists. We've had a couple of threads about it. To me that's a prime indicator of a team playing "me" basketball and that's a coaching failure. Tennessee's average assist ranking for the last 4 years is 66th. Last night they had 6. In contrast UConn's assist ranking averaged 1.8 over the same time frame.

I wonder if there are any nasty "ball hog chick" comments on the private orange board this AM. It's really too bad they went private. I miss my morning chuckle the day after a UTenn loss.

There are calls for Warlick's head on the public one.

 

[RadyLady]

I feel badly for Holly too. I like her.

I don't know that I'd label Simmons a winner. She is very talented but selfish in a bad way. In Jim Fuller's blog this morning, Geno talks about wanting Breanna Stewart to be less unselfish, i.e., realizing that shooting when open will make the team better. That's what winners do. Simmons often takes shots when she's not open, or takes quick shots without running any semblance of offense, or plays like it's all on her and all about her. That's not what winners do.

yup. we on the same page

 

[doggydaddy]

Just looked at the Vols schedule. Games @ GaTech and @ Miami in the next 8 days. Games vs MTSU, UNC, @ Texas, @ Baylor, Stanford and Rutgers. All before the end of December

On paper they have more talent than any team on that list outside of Baylor. Not sure if they go 7-1 against those teams though.

They will be lucky to go 4-3.

 

[Vowelguy]

Either way, to say that "HS rankings are irrelevant once college starts" is wrong IMHO.

We're talking about the talent of players. HS rankings are irrelvant for evaluating talent once college starts.

"These players are talented because a delusional fan base says so" does not carry much water with me.

 

[Vowelguy]

Not a team loaded with talent? Name 10 other teams on paper who have more talent.

The 19 teams I ranked above Tenn in my preseason poll.

 

[Icebear]

They will be lucky to go 4-3.

I think that you are right and it will take some real luck to do it.

 

[triaddukefan]

They will be lucky to go 4-3.

Actually its 8 games that I listed.

 

[doggydaddy]

The 19 teams I ranked above Tenn in my preseason poll.

So, Karnack, what do you use to measure talent if HS rankings don't matter.

IMO, Tennessee's problem is underperformance because of the unsettled coaching situation and poor coaching, not a lack of talent.

 

[doggydaddy]

Actually its 8 games that I listed.

Then I guess they would have to be EXTREMELY lucky to go 4-3.

 

[easttexastrash]

Baugh was a very good player and one of their best. I am not sure how her minutes compared to Simmons and Massengale, but she was a much more efficient player. Simmons is a volume shooter so her scoring numbers are going to be inflated and not really indicative of how well she performs.

 

[EricSD]

The 19 teams I ranked above Tenn in my preseason poll.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I guess you feel that Delaware has a more talented team on paper than Tennessee. Delaware has a NPOY candidate in EDD, and a bunch of other average players. I'm NOT saying Tennessee is a better team than others in the top 25. I'm saying it's mystifying from their fans' perspective as to why they lost, and HOW they could lose with so many talented kids on the roster. As others have pointed out, lack of chemistry, lack of leadership, lack of coaching are all reasons. But give Geno Tennessee's roster, or Tara V. or Muffett, or any of the other coaches one feels is really good, and they'd be able to do more with the talent Tennessee has...

We're talking about the talent of players. HS rankings are irrelvant for evaluating talent once college starts.

"These players are talented because a delusional fan base says so" does not carry much water with me.

Again, totally disagree. And so does Hoopgurlz, and any other high school ranking system that bases a players ranking on potential, coachability, and how they will do in college. You clearly do not understand the meaning of the word "irrelevant". The dictionary defines it as "not relevant; not pertinent; not to the point; not relating to the subject".

Rankings in high school are discussed ad nauseum by fans even past a players' college career. Additionally, at least one of the ranking services explains that their HS rankings are based on how they expect the player to perform in college. Finally, I am discussing talent on paper, not how teams develop and are coached.

Now if you were to say that a players high school ranking is not a guaranteed predictor of how good they will be in college, then of course I would agree. But you simply are not saying that and are wrong. Sorry, but them's the facts!

 

[Vowelguy]

I love how "I disagree" has become "therefore YOU ARE WRONG."
Wonderful.

 

[Phil]

Actually its 8 games that I listed.

One suspended due to moisture on the court and cancelled

 

[alexrgct]

In WCBB, there's a pretty strong statistical correlation between high school rankings and college performance. You will see some high-ranked busts and some low ranked surprises, but nothing like on the men's side in either category. And Tennessee's results have historically correlated highly with the quality of recruit they brought in. More recently, that has not been the case. That's relatively anomalous in WCBB and should be a cause for concern for LV fans.

As for GT next? Dare I make a "better them than Ball State" comment? Damn- guess I already did. I feel so small.

 

[Vowelguy]

In WCBB, there's a pretty strong statistical correlation between high school rankings and college performance.
.

Of course. But HS rankings are only useful until better information comes available -- ie, actual performance.

Which college senior would you rather have on your team: the kid who was highly rated in HS but did nothing in her first 3 years, or the unheralded HS kid who has performed great in 3 seasons?
Which junior? Which soph?

And Tennessee's results have historically correlated highly with the quality of recruit they brought in. More recently, that has not been the case.

Bingo. I think some have been busts, some have underperformed, and some have been undercoached.

 

[EricSD]

In WCBB, there's a pretty strong statistical correlation between high school rankings and college performance. You will see some high-ranked busts and some low ranked surprises, but nothing like on the men's side in either category. And Tennessee's results have historically correlated highly with the quality of recruit they brought in. More recently, that has not been the case. That's relatively anomalous in WCBB and should be a cause for concern for LV fans.

As for GT next? Dare I make a "better them than Ball State" comment? Damn- guess I already did. I feel so small.

That was exactly my point.

 

[sarals24]

Of course. But HS rankings are only useful until better information comes available -- ie, actual performance.

Which college senior would you rather have on your team: the kid who was highly rated in HS but did nothing in her first 3 years, or the unheralded HS kid who has performed great in 3 seasons?
Which junior? Which soph?



Bingo. I think some have been busts, some have underperformed, and some have been undercoached.

Obviously you want the ones who are performing. But what Alex is saying is that in WCBB, typically the highly ranked HS players ARE the ones who are performing in college. Of course there are some outliers. But with the amount of talent that Tennessee has they should not be pleased with the results thus far. And yes, high school ranking is a good indicator of talent. Clearly it isn't the be-all, end-all. But Tennessee wouldn't be recruiting them if they weren't talented, and therefore highly ranked.

 

[doggydaddy]

I love how "I disagree" has become "therefore YOU ARE WRONG."
Wonderful.

I say the sky is blue. You say green.

You disagree and are wrong.

 

[uconnbaseball]

Looking forward to their game vs. Rice. Greg Williams is not a good coach but there are some solid players on the Owls, particularly in the frontcourt. Would not be surprised to see another upset there.

 

[UcMiami]

1. I think there tends to be a serious difference most years between the top 1, 2 or 3 players and the next 5-10 players in HS rankings. (And some years the top end is missing.) And those exceptional players make the difference between very good teams and championship teams. TN used to get more than their share of those players, and really didn't have that much competition for them. That has changed in the last 10-15 years with many more teams taking WCBB seriously and with the quality of the coaching across the women's game getting much better. (Geno has had an amazing run of consistently getting those top players.) The last player TN got at that level was Parker.
2. I have never been impressed with the TN offensive plan - the chuck it up and crash the boards approach can be effective, but it tends to be pretty ugly. With better coaching at the HS level and more USA basketball experience the recruits are more sophisticated than they used to be, and while TN has a great reputation and fabulous fans/facilities, I don't think the style of play is very attractive to today's top recruits.
3. Given past glory and unrealistic current expectations, some of the TN fans have been pretty harsh in their comments about both coaches and players. Not a great situation for TN (and something I think the BY does a great job of policing on this site.)
With the above points and with this coaching transition over the past two years and with a run of injuries over the last 4 years it is not surprising that TN is struggling.
Still - never expected this loss!

 

[Rb335]

I think it is too early to begin giving up on this program. This is the first year under a new coach. Tennessee has many good players but lost so much to graduation. Likewise, high ranked recruits aren't performing to their expectations. This happens everywhere to good players. The lady vols have had solid recruiting classes the past few years and look to be in good shape for 2013. If after the next few years this team doesn't have a "tennessee level" year, it will be time to lose hope.

 

[doggydaddy]

If after the next few years this team doesn't have a "tennessee level" year, it will be time to lose hope.

They haven't had a Tennessee level year in 4 years. This will be the 5th and worst of the five.

We might be redefining what a "tennessee level" year is.