Starting point guard

[Waquoit]

Saying we can't win a NC with Nika at the point because of the OSU game is insane.

It was the Sweet 16 and they got drilled. Not the Elite 8 or the FF.

 

[Alydar]

Good points.

In one of the Diana Taurasi and Sue Bird television shows during the NCAA tournament, Diana said that she and Sue used to take turns bringing the ball up the court when they played together at UConn.

Bird, Taurasi, Bueckers, Fudd, Muhl

Of the four, who doesn't fit? (hint: it's not their defense) Any player a notch below the four will have a very successful career as a pro. Muhl's problem is that she can only play one position and isn't a big scorer while best pg who ever was is also a pg. In order for Muhl to start, either Bueckers or Fudd, along with Griffin and Edwards will have to play out of their natural and best positions.

Geno could start 3 guards and let Griffin and Edwards handle all the physical work. What I don't like about that is that 2 starters would be weak scorers.
But if Muhl came off the bench then Brady could play the post and the other four would be in their best positions.
I think Muhl will play more minutes at pg than Bueckers but with a minute left and down 5 who do you want running the offense? Or up 5 with 2 min left and facing a press who do you want bringing up the ball?

Of course the players themselves determine who the coaches decide to start but right now Fudd Bueckers Griffin and Edwards are starting and I think UConn will be better with Brady then they will with Muhl. And again this is only about starting.

Caveat: There are several players whose play from now till November could change everything I said. The well is very deep.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Bird, Taurasi, Bueckers, Fudd, Muhl

Of the four, who doesn't fit? (hint: it's not their defense) Any player a notch below the four will have a very successful career as a pro. Muhl's problem is that she can only play one position and isn't a big scorer while best pg who ever was is also a pg. In order for Muhl to start, either Bueckers or Fudd, along with Griffin and Edwards will have to play out of their natural and best positions.

Geno could start 3 guards and let Griffin and Edwards handle all the physical work. What I don't like about that is that 2 starters would be weak scorers.
But if Muhl came off the bench then Brady could play the post and the other four would be in their best positions.
I think Muhl will play more minutes at pg than Bueckers but with a minute left and down 5 who do you want running the offense? Or up 5 with 2 min left and facing a press who do you want bringing up the ball?

Of course the players themselves determine who the coaches decide to start but right now Fudd Bueckers Griffin and Edwards are starting and I think UConn will be better with Brady then they will with Muhl. And again this is only about starting.

Caveat: There are several players whose play from now till November could change everything I said. The well is very deep.

If Muhl started, Ice could play the post and everyone else can still their “natural position”. I don’t think Aubrey is a given starter, though she’s a potential starter. This whole position thing is nonsense- Geno doesn’t recruit or play players based on position.

The real reason Nika will start alongside Paige and Azzi in the backcourt is that she’s better than Paige at pushing the pace and going from defense to offense. Paige is an excellent half court point guard but she doesn’t look to push like Nika. That along with her defense makes her as sure if a starter as Paige, Azzi and Aaliyah.

 

[tchalla1]

IMHO Nika will be the PG, Paige will be the SG, Azzi will be the Wing, Aubrey will be the SF, and Aaliyah will be the PF!
Geno really uses no positions as every player has a share in the total offense.
I also feel Caroline as a G/W and Ice as PF/C will be the first off the bench!
Geno will be using more players in his rotation this season as his trust goes 10 or 11 deep, maybe even 12 deep!
With the athletes Geno has (if healthy) he'll run and gun and press or a more aggressive defense all game!

I like the combos being laid out, but are these too small of a lineup? I think we'd get killed on the boards...

 

[Alydar]

If Muhl started, Ice could play the post and everyone else can still their “natural position”. I don’t think Aubrey is a given starter, though she’s a potential starter. This whole position thing is nonsense- Geno doesn’t recruit or play players based on position.

The real reason Nika will start alongside Paige and Azzi in the backcourt is that she’s better than Paige at pushing the pace and going from defense to offense. Paige is an excellent half court point guard but she doesn’t look to push like Nika. That along with her defense makes her as sure if a starter as Paige, Azzi and Aaliyah.

You and I are in different universes.

 

[tchalla1]

IMO, Paige did the same thing as a freshman but she didn't get the hype about "changing the women's game" because it was expected of her. And she did not fail anyone.
So in my opinion, Caitlin is almost the equivalent of Paige. Period.

Paige had a truly exceptional season during her freshman year but it did not measure up to Clark's season--Clark was an even more dynamic scorer and she took down one of the best teams this decade in S.C. Clark got the "hype" because she was the hype... Clark is the equivalent of Paige and then some...

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Paige had a truly exceptional season during her freshman year but it did not measure up to Clark's season--Clark was an even more dynamic scorer and she took down one of the best teams this decade in S.C. Clark got the "hype" because she was the hype... Clark is the equivalent of Paige and then some...

Clark as a junior might have been better than Paige as a freshman. That’s not the flex you seem to think it is lol

 

[BobbyJ]

If Muhl started, Ice could play the post and everyone else can still their “natural position”. I don’t think Aubrey is a given starter, though she’s a potential starter. This whole position thing is nonsense- Geno doesn’t recruit or play players based on position.

The real reason Nika will start alongside Paige and Azzi in the backcourt is that she’s better than Paige at pushing the pace and going from defense to offense. Paige is an excellent half court point guard but she doesn’t look to push like Nika. That along with her defense makes her as sure if a starter as Paige, Azzi and Aaliyah.

You either have a short memory or you haven't seen Bueckers when she gets a clean outlet pass. She doesn't need to dribble half the length of the court, she sees the court in advance and beats the defense down court with her passing.

 

[diggerfoot]

Paige had a truly exceptional season during her freshman year but it did not measure up to Clark's season--Clark was an even more dynamic scorer and she took down one of the best teams this decade in S.C. Clark got the "hype" because she was the hype... Clark is the equivalent of Paige and then some...

In terms of offensive and deficiency Buecker’s freshman year surpassed Clark’s junior year. Her efficiency was the best of all players that year, including Boston, and was likely one of the best of all time. She shot at a higher percentage than the junior Clark, had a much better A/T ratio, and they were not even in the same class defensively.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

You either have a short memory or you haven't seen Bueckers when she gets a clean outlet pass. She doesn't need to dribble half the length of the court, she sees the court in advance and beats the defense down court with her passing.

I recently rewatched almost every game Paige played in at UConn, and she’s not as good as Nika is at this. Nika pushes every single time without fail, it’s automatic. Paige prefers to walk it up, she can push and when she does it can be spectacular but she’s not at Nikas level with pushing pace.

 

[#12in21]

As many have stated before, myself among them (incidentally we can include Nika in that group as well), Paige is the most gifted player on our roster and likely will make a legitimate case once again for being the best player in wcbb. She can't be pigeon holed into being classified as strictly a PG and has played both in college and high school a good deal of time alongside a PG with no drop in her effectiveness and impact. Freshman year, which is the largest sample of Paige and Nika playing together, she credited Nika with increasing her scoring opportunities both by anticipating her movement with lead passes and setting screens for her. The point is Paige loses nothing in her game by not being 'the PG' and both she and Nika, as recently as in the preseason pressers, reiterated they play very well when together on the floor. Sitting Nika would only lessen what our team can do this season, she is one of our exceptional assets. It's not about starting the five most gifted offensive players (as some seem to be using as their criteria), it's about putting the best combination of five players on the floor that can optimize the teams success. In terms of Nika and Paige, its not an either or question, they will both do more for the teams success in tandem.

Nika comes to the role of PG from a European perspective. As her father, Darko, pointed out in an article (cited on the Boneyard at one point) that role is much more facilitator, positioning players and communicating than scoring. So along with the adjustments Nika has had to make defensively in reducing contact she has been asked to increase her scoring threat to disallow the defense to play off her. This past season she made great strides on that front, more often driving to the basket, greatly increasing getting to the line, an occasional mid range shot thrown in, while maintaining a 34% clip from distance. I have no doubt that she is continuing to work on her offensive game this off season. I would argue that her improvement in those areas (through this season and as it continues going forward) has been to a great deal due to a change in mindset. In a presser freshman season, she was asked if her lack of scoring was a concern, her response was she didn't believe she needed to score with so many better options among her teammates. I am quite sure Geno did not agree at that time nor now and Nika has come to accept that she needs to provide enough of a scoring threat (to supplement her great ability to facilitate) as to not allow opponents to play off her. I think she has turned the corner on that and would suggest that Geno agrees.

This season at one point he said we don't need Nika to be a different player we just need her to always be Nika. If we look at Dawn's strategy for the SC game, even with Nika not being a big scoring threat herself - Dawn's stated emphasis in her game planning was to try to keep the ball out of Nika's hands because if she couldn't facilitate then our offense wouldn't be effective. To make a very long story short, we don't have to worry about opponents playing off of Nika to double team our shooters, because she will score enough when she sees an opportunity and her exceptional ability to position her teammates and find the best option make it critical for her opponents to contain her (think her Uconn record 284 assists this season).

So what I wonder when reading some of these posts which argue she will not be our starting PG, or starting at all, or (atleast one poster) which lists her as third or fourth in the PG depth chart, is are these folks talking about the same Nika Mühl I am. I'm talking about the one that is the head of the snake on our defense (two time BE DPOY), the one that played more minutes than anyone this past season while reinventing herself to eliminate fouling concerns and increase her scoring productivity, the acknowledged floor general and vocal leader of the team by both her coaches and teammates, the one that set new season, single game and # of double digit consecutive and in total, assist game records this past season, the one that energizes her teammates (again as acknowledged by both her coaches and teammates) and the one on the roster that has started the most games during her career. That's the player I'm talking about and that's the player that I see as the starting PG alongside backcourt running mate 'generational talents', Paige and Azzi. IMO, Nika Mühl will be an integral piece of a very deep, very talented roster that if healthy has an unlimited ceiling.

Nika is no question not the most gifted player on the team, but as Geno has said during her freshman season through the present she is unique and he's only had a few players like her and 'the team is better when she is on the floor'. That's where he will have her during her senior season.​

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

I like the combos being laid out, but are these too small of a lineup? I think we'd get killed on the boards...

tchalla- - - Geno has proven in the past that he can make the "small" lineup work!
He puts the players in position to succeed and if he notices it's going south in a hurry he has so much talent on the bench to switch direction in a hurry!

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

I just don't see Aburey starting, she is just too limited offensively. She, to me, is the perfect person off the bench as the 6th player. If the last starter isn't Ice or Jana, I expect Geno to go with a 4 out system and start Caroline as the defacto 4 and play a lot at the high post.

ucbart- - - After writing that I said to myself that same statement, Aubrey is a game changer and might be better coming off the bench and Caroline at 6'2" could add mopre to the offense!
But I wouldn't put it past Geno to use my 1st lineup sometimes!

 

[wingsfan055]

If Muhl started, Ice could play the post and everyone else can still their “natural position”. I don’t think Aubrey is a given starter, though she’s a potential starter. This whole position thing is nonsense- Geno doesn’t recruit or play players based on position.

The real reason Nika will start alongside Paige and Azzi in the backcourt is that she’s better than Paige at pushing the pace and going from defense to offense. Paige is an excellent half court point guard but she doesn’t look to push like Nika. That along with her defense makes her as sure if a starter as Paige, Azzi and Aaliyah.

Wow. The only thing Nika is better at than Paige in a fast break is turning the ball over.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Wow. The only thing Nika is better at than Paige in a fast break is turning the ball over.

Well luckily when they are both starting Paige will be there to receive her passes on the fast break to cut down on turnovers.

 

[#12in21]

You either have a short memory or you haven't seen Bueckers when she gets a clean outlet pass. She doesn't need to dribble half the length of the court, she sees the court in advance and beats the defense down court with her passing.

Don't disagree on your observations about Paige but you may want to rewatch a few of last seasons games again and note how many of Nika's 284 assists came in situations as you describe, a good number hitting her cutting teammate so they could easily finish at that basket. While your at it you could check out their freshman year, Paige was on the receiving end of a few of those. Why fans aspirations would not be to witness a second coming of Diane's and Sue's co-200 assist season is beyond me.....

 

[Cuango]

Nika will start alongside Paige and they’ll share PG duties. Why is this even a discussion?

Who is the best point guard on this (healthy) team? Clearly Paige! Best shooting guard? Clearly Azzi! Best wing/small forward? Clearly Caroline/Aubrey! Best power forward? Clearly Aaliyah! Best center? Ice/Jana! Sure, Paige is probably the best at three different positions, but her skill at the point and Azzi’s at the 2 are such that those are likely their optimal positions!
Obviously, I (or anyone else) don’t know what Geno will choose to do in terms of a starting lineup but to act like it’s inconceivable that Nika might not start is simply ludicrous! At every position available to Nika we have someone better. Her chance of starting lies in intangibles, not superior playing ability. Now it may be that those intangibles outweigh the skill difference and Geno decides her value to the overall functioning of the team warrants relegating a “better” player to playing backup. That happens sometimes! Sure, she may be the starting pg or she may be the backup to Paige! Either way, she will still be a big, important part of the team! Why is that not enough?

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

The Nika nay-sayers forget one important, indelible fact, Geno wants Nika on the floor to facilitate the offense!
He has said many, many times, Nika makes the team go!

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Who is the best point guard on this (healthy) team? Clearly Paige! Best shooting guard? Clearly Azzi! Best wing/small forward? Clearly Caroline/Aubrey! Best power forward? Clearly Aaliyah! Best center? Ice/Jana! Sure, Paige is probably the best at three different positions, but her skill at the point and Azzi’s at the 2 are such that those are likely their optimal positions!
Obviously, I (or anyone else) don’t know what Geno will choose to do in terms of a starting lineup but to act like it’s inconceivable that Nika might not start is simply ludicrous! At every position available to Nika we have someone better. Her chance of starting lies in intangibles, not superior playing ability. Now it may be that those intangibles outweigh the skill difference and Geno decides her value to the overall functioning of the team warrants relegating a “better” player to playing backup. That happens sometimes! Sure, she may be the starting pg or she may be the backup to Paige! Either way, she will still be a big, important part of the team! Why is that not enough?

Honestly it is inconceivable Nika won’t start. Geno has played positionless basketball for two decades. He’s not about to start now just to justify taking Nika out of the starting line-up. Nits not even about Paige, it’s the fact that she has out played both Aubrey and Carolina in her three seasons here offensively and is a better perimeter defender than both. To put either of them over her in the starting line-up based on past performance is silly and not based on actual performance.

There won’t be a starting point guard next year, there will be three starting guards, two of which can play point guard.

 

[wingsfan055]

Honestly it is inconceivable Nika won’t start. Geno has played positionless basketball for two decades. He’s not about to start now just to justify taking Nika out of the starting line-up. Nits not even about Paige, it’s the fact that she has out played both Aubrey and Carolina in her three seasons here offensively and is a better perimeter defender than both. To put either of them over her in the starting line-up based on past performance is silly and not based on actual performance.

There won’t be a starting point guard next year, there will be three starting guards, two of which can play point guard.

When healthy, Aubrey is a much better perimeter defender than Nika. Much more athletic, much longer wingspan, quicker, etc. Geno usually puts her on the best scorer, if that's on the perimeter or even the 4.

 

[hoophuskee]

Bird, Taurasi, Bueckers, Fudd, Muhl

Of the four, who doesn't fit? (hint: it's not their defense) Any player a notch below the four will have a very successful career as a pro. Muhl's problem is that she can only play one position and isn't a big scorer while best pg who ever was is also a pg. In order for Muhl to start, either Bueckers or Fudd, along with Griffin and Edwards will have to play out of their natural and best positions.

Geno could start 3 guards and let Griffin and Edwards handle all the physical work. What I don't like about that is that 2 starters would be weak scorers.
But if Muhl came off the bench then Brady could play the post and the other four would be in their best positions.
I think Muhl will play more minutes at pg than Bueckers but with a minute left and down 5 who do you want running the offense? Or up 5 with 2 min left and facing a press who do you want bringing up the ball?

Of course the players themselves determine who the coaches decide to start but right now Fudd Bueckers Griffin and Edwards are starting and I think UConn will be better with Brady then they will with Muhl. And again this is only about starting.

Caveat: There are several players whose play from now till November could change everything I said. The well is very deep.

I don’t agree with your entire context here. First off why do you even bring up the point” with a minute left?” Where did anyone e suggest that they don’t want the ball in Paige’s hands with a minute left? So, why did you bring that up? You’ve invented an argument that never existed.

Secondly, we have to realize that college ball in not pro ball. As a result, you and many others often mention “natrual position . . .” As a UCONN fan, how can anyone talk about “natrual position” when over the past 30 years Geno has shown over and over and over and over, he doesn’t care about “natrual position?”

Just look at 3 years ago. Geno started Nika over Aubrey. As a result, Geno moved Paige off-the-ball. No longer the pg. He moved CWill to sf. No longer the sg. It’s always bene this way because “natural college positions” are different than natural pro positions.”. Always. It’s why Gabby played PF. SO did Tuck. And Tuck even played center. He had the great Maya Moore play out of her sf position to play PF at UCONN. Examples like this have been done by Geno throughout.

The “natural position” argument is completely missing the point. To further that, as I’ve stayed on another past, when Nika bring up the ball and is starting, she has 3 out of 4 all-Americans to pass to. That’s 75%. Unless Ducharme is on a roll, Paige has 50% to pas to, 50% is not superior to 75%.

And as stated on a prior email, UCONN is not going to play one-player basketball like Iowa. Geno recruits other H/S A/A’s. And that’s why the team Geno puts forth goes on to win 11 championships and 14 straight Final Fours. And it’s why the style Iowa is forced to play is fleeting. H/S A’a’s that commit to UCONN don’t want to watch the one-player show that Iowa has to do. They didn’t come to UCONN to only set picks for 1 player or hang out at the 3-point line to wait for thhe only 1 player to make a move. The pros are far different. They will have no problem doing this. They get paid. That’s why in part the pro game is different than the college game and why it’s completely irrelevant to talk about “natrual position” at UCONN when he has a team loaded with versatility and young kids seeking desperately to learn. That’s not the pros.

 

[hoophuskee]

Who is the best point guard on this (healthy) team? Clearly Paige! Best shooting guard? Clearly Azzi! Best wing/small forward? Clearly Caroline/Aubrey! Best power forward? Clearly Aaliyah! Best center? Ice/Jana! Sure, Paige is probably the best at three different positions, but her skill at the point and Azzi’s at the 2 are such that those are likely their optimal positions!

The bold is not true at all. IMo way off. Paige is without a doubt far superior far superior to Aubrey. And it's not close. Aubrey can't shoot well. No matter what else she deos, Paige's Offense at that spot is far far superior/way more offsets any impact Aubrey can overall produce.

With Caroline - she just hasn't played a full season yet so I won't say "far superior.." I'll leave it blank because I of the degree of impact is hard to characterize. Paige si a phenom at 1/2/3 spots. What was the big differecne betwen Paige playing SG or SF her freshman year vs Cwill? Did CWill guard the quicker player? SO if that were true it may have meant Paige gaurded the taller/more isnide-oreinted wing player on the other team?

And on Offense in UCONN's motion offense, how much differecne is there betwen Paige being as 2 or 3 back in her forsh year? In this case we couldn't have referred to them as Wings? Why not?

 

[hoopsnloops32]

When healthy, Aubrey is a much better perimeter defender than Nika. Much more athletic, much longer wingspan, quicker, etc. Geno usually puts her on the best scorer, if that's on the perimeter or even the 4.

I disagree, she tends to lose players on the perimeter a lot and isn’t great at defending the three. Aubrey can make some draw dropping defensive plays but she lacks the consistent focus Nika has at that end to be our top perimeter defender.

 

[#12in21]

A few figures to give a bit of perspective. i looked at team total points for the 22-23 season and total points and assists for three players, Aaliyah, Lou and Nika. I doubled assists and added in total assists divided by 4 (to allow for 3pt shots - about 25% of all shots) to get a point total of offense related to assists. That number was then added to total points for each player. I then figured out the % of total team points each player was a part of (whether by scoring or assisting). Lou's total was 25%, Aaliyah's total was 30% and Nika's total was 32%. Paige's freshman undisputed POY season, total was 39%.

I then figured the percent of both Paige and Nika's production that was generated by assists. Paige's percent was 39% and Nika's was 71%. So Paige's production was about 60% from scoring and 40% from assisting. Nika's was about 30% from scoring and 70% from assisting.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm thinking next season with Paige's overall offense added to a lineup that includes classmates Aaliyah and Nika, super senior Aubrey and juniors Azzi and Caroline as a core 6 supplemented with an experienced Amari, Ines and Ayanna, the debut of ICE along with the four in our outstanding freshman class we are going to be bad for basketball at a minimum!

 

[MSGRET]

When healthy, Aubrey is a much better perimeter defender than Nika. Much more athletic, much longer wingspan, quicker, etc. Geno usually puts her on the best scorer, if that's on the perimeter or even the 4.

In the Iowa game, Nika was the only UConn player that played 40 minutes and was the person that hindered Clark so much that she whined about her in the huddle that she needed her teammates to get that #10 off her back. As for the Aubrey being the better perimeter defender it depends on who she is guarding. Nika was usually guarding the opposing team PG, while Aubrey was usually guarding the 3 or 4 position player, both got 50 steals last season. Nika was one of only 4 players on the team that had more assists than T/O's, 284 to 127. The other 3 were Dorka 92 to 60, Ines 29 to 25, and Azzi 29 to 26, Aubrey had 44 to 64.