Starting point guard

[jdote33]

Not to get too sidetracked but I didn't realize that Carolines numbers went down last season. Not just in points but overall shooting and free throws as well. She had a legendary 9 game stretch as a freshman but I wonder if that put too high expectations on her. Heading into last year I genuinely thought she would be a near all American. Then to end last season, seeing her struggle so much against Ohio State and Cotie McMahon, I'm not sure what to expect from her. Somewhat circling back to the topic, based on last year if the choice was between Nika and Caroline for starting, I think Nika deserves the nod. And I hate pinning the 2 against one another, just sortve saw the discussion in the thread.

 

[#12in21]

And the defense can help on both Fudd and Bueckers, reducing the number of good looks they get.

I would suggest Dawn Staley would not agree. She focused her defensive strategy on keeping the ball out of Nika's hands not because she was a scoring threat but because of her ability to facilitate our offense. In a high motion offense with Paige and Azzi as targets for Nika, not to mention our most effective scoring threat last season, Aaliyah, - nobody is going to be playing off of her due to her ability to hit the open person or go for the 'hockey assist' to whoever has a better angle to hit the open player. Having Nika, whose focus and skills are on assisting rather than scoring, on the floor with those three is a much better option than having another scorer who is not an efficient passer. 70% of her offensive contribution last season was from her assists, no-one else on the current roster has that focus or ability. Only Paige could, but in doing so the team would suffer from the loss of her scoring ( Paige was 60% scoring and 40% assisting in terms of her offensive contribution freshman season).

 

[ballerfan]

They didnt play pg because they were playing pro ball and the Chicago Bulls and LA Lakers could afford to buy any position they needed. And Jordan with North Caolina had an experienced pg as a freshman. After that Jordan won nothing at North Carolina regardless best postion or not.

As a matter of fact after Jordan went to the NBA. In the 1st year there used ot be a comment (which I don't want to say about Dean Smith who obviously was a super coach), making fun of him a bit.

I have no problem with what you and Alydar are saying about CD. But brnnging up pro ball vs colege ball is imo way off base. Maya Moore played PF most of her career at UCONN.. Her best postion was SF as a pro. Morgan Tuck played pf or c at UCONN. But her best postion would have bene SF in pro ball. Swin Cash was a pf at UCONN but her best postion in the pros was sf.

You can't compare pro ball the way you and alydar are trying wih Kobe and MJ and then try to tie it into Paige.

Jordan is an exception. He could have played 1 to 4 though not 5, not in that era. But Cuango is right. SG was his natural, best position, not PG. PG was the natural, best position of Paxson and Kerr, players neither highly drafted nor expensive. The Bulls played Jordan where he was most useful given the other talents on the team, a strategy not limited to the NBA. (Jordan was not a fully formed player at North Carolina, was not the reason why the team won his freshman year and not the next two years, and wasn’t even the highest drafted player of his class.)

I do think Jordan is relevant to Paige. I’m inclined to think that Paige, given the other talents on the team and given all that Nika adds to the team, is best at the 2, even more so because there is chemistry between Paige and Nika and because they play well together. But I still suspect that Geno will eventually have Paige play in her natural, best position because she is not only a better PG than Nika but also the best PG in the country.

 

[ballerfan]

If anyone thinks seniority matters to Geno, or how someone played the previous year, or even that some players deserve minutes, think again. I'm pretty sure Geno determines playing time entirely on the basis of how someone performs in practice and in the last few games. You earn minutes with him. Nobody deserves them. In this most recent video, he reiterated this very principle. And in previous years he has said that seniors have no special priority for playing time and that getting playing for underclassmen is often more important to the program.

As fans, we are free to speculate on who will get minutes on the basis of seniority, prior year's performance, etc. And we're not wrong to do so. But that's just speculation. It's not what Geno bases his decisions on.

I think seniority is a factor for Geno, especially at the beginning of the season, though obviously there are more important factors. But I might be remembering incorrectly or just plain wrong.

 

[Childhood]

Azzi and Paige are starters 100%. If Nika is also in the starting lineup, it's too small. I would rather put Aubrey in the starting lineup.

 

[Jmsdawg]

I would suggest Dawn Staley would not agree. She focused her defensive strategy on keeping the ball out of Nika's hands not because she was a scoring threat but because of her ability to facilitate our offense. In a high motion offense with Paige and Azzi as targets for Nika, not to mention our most effective scoring threat last season, Aaliyah, - nobody is going to be playing off of her due to her ability to hit the open person or go for the 'hockey assist' to whoever has a better angle to hit the open player. Having Nika, whose focus and skills are on assisting rather than scoring, on the floor with those three is a much better option than having another scorer who is not an efficient passer. 70% of her offensive contribution last season was from her assists, no-one else on the current roster has that focus or ability. Only Paige could, but in doing so the team would suffer from the loss of her scoring ( Paige was 60% scoring and 40% assisting in terms of her offensive contribution freshman season).

I agree 100%. Nika’s role as the PG is to know the whole team, she must get the ball to the proper player where she is comfortable and at least semi open. Paige’s job is to get to that sport and free herself from her defender as much as possible. I suspect Geno will have the entire team working together. I believe next year will be tough for any team to win the NC because so many teams are hoping to be NC and have a legitimate shot at the title, however I believe, as of today, three teams, UConn, LSU, and SC, are the favorites. Can hardly wait for next year!

 

[Bone Dog]

I think seniority is a factor for Geno, especially at the beginning of the season, though obviously there are more important factors. But I might be remembering incorrectly or just plain wrong.

The starting lineups over the years have tended to feature upperclassmen, and often seniors. But it’s not because they’re seniors. It’s because they tend to be the most experienced players, the ones best able to play the game Geno wants. And when a talented freshman shows up, the seniors get bumped, if not on day one then pretty soon. Had Paige showed up a season or two earlier would she have bumped a senior? When freshman Stewie arrived she started immediately. Katie Lou too.

I’m pretty sure being a senior carries no special weight or privilege for Geno. In his mind it’s even a bit of a liability, since investing playing time in seniors doesn’t build his program for the future. They need to play better than the underclassmen to get minutes. Paige and Stewie and Katie Lou (and others) are not exceptions to a rule but illustrations of it.

 

[Centerstream]

When Muhl entered the starting lineup in her freshman season it was 5th year player Westbrook who sat.

Ummm, please cite which game(s) that this happened during Nika's freshman season. It seems to me that every game that Nika started that season, Evina also started.
But in Nika's sophomore season, she did start with Evina sitting, but that happened in January. I have no idea what caused the change at the time.

 

[PacoSwede]

it seems some folks don't appreciate

 

[PacoSwede]

it seems some folks don't appreciate the value of TEAM play, -- if winning a NC is the objective.
but some apparently think that the point of WCBB competition is to provide a platform for individual players.
that's what i noticed in reading this thread.

BTW, why be so concerned about other teams that we likely won't even play? geno's philosophy is to play 'our' game the best you can and let the opponent adjust to 'us'.... that makes a bunch of sense.

 

[Cuango]

They didnt play pg because they were playing pro ball and the Chicago Bulls and LA Lakers could afford to buy any position they needed. And Jordan with North Caolina had an experienced pg as a freshman. After that Jordan won nothing at North Carolina regardless best postion or not.

As a matter of fact after Jordan went to the NBA. In the 1st year there used ot be a comment (which I don't want to say about Dean Smith who obviously was a super coach), making fun of him a bit.

I have no problem with what you and Alydar are saying about CD. But brnnging up pro ball vs colege ball is imo way off base. Maya Moore played PF most of her career at UCONN.. Her best postion was SF as a pro. Morgan Tuck played pf or c at UCONN. But her best postion would have bene SF in pro ball. Swin Cash was a pf at UCONN but her best postion in the pros was sf.

You can't compare pro ball the way you and alydar are trying wih Kobe and MJ and then try to tie it into Paige.

Please show me where I brought up Jordan or Kobe. I responded to Blond D’s post. Please keep up!

 

[hoophuskee]

Jordan is an exception. He could have played 1 to 4 though not 5, not in that era. But Cuango is right. SG was his natural, best position, not PG. PG was the natural, best position of Paxson and Kerr, players neither highly drafted nor expensive. The Bulls played Jordan where he was most useful given the other talents on the team, a strategy not limited to the NBA. (Jordan was not a fully formed player at North Carolina, was not the reason why the team won his freshman year and not the next two years, and wasn’t even the highest drafted player of his class.)

I do think Jordan is relevant to Paige. I’m inclined to think that Paige, given the other talents on the team and given all that Nika adds to the team, is best at the 2, even more so because there is chemistry between Paige and Nika and because they play well together. But I still suspect that Geno will eventually have Paige play in her natural, best position because she is not only a better PG than Nika but also the best PG in the country.

The colege game is much different than the pros. For example, the NBA can buy players to fill spots so you can put players in their natural postions. and Chicago and LA have the resources es to do whatever they want. Thereofre the comparison between Jordan and Paige is way off base. UCONN can't buy a SF that is healthy to allow Paige to be the fulltime pg. If UCONN can't buy plyrers like Chicago and LA are able to do, then how is the comparison relevant?

As far as Jordan not being fully formed- what does that mean? How many eventual terrific players are fully formed when they leave early and enter the NBA? It was extremley obvious he was going to be great but ofc no one expected that great. Anyone that couldn't tell he was going ot be great - you can just see his handle and atheticism were off the charts just had blinders on. As far as his freshman year, you are right. But I necver said it was. Not sure why you brought that up becuase I don't beleive there si relevance?

As far as Piage moving to pg I don't beleiver it will have one iota of a differecne that that is her best postion - it will be because either Nika collapsed or a player such as Caroline can be trusted to not be injured and is playing well (or a slimmer chance that AUbrey drills a lot of mid-range shots in a veyr efficent way. Then it wouldn't matter oen buit of best postion but just who is palyign best. IMO Geno has doen this throughout his career and imo it's why he has won as often as he has. He has played many players off their best postion and won.

mihale jordan norht caolian highlyights youtube - Google Search

 

[ballerfan]

Please show me where I brought up Jordan or Kobe. I responded to Blond D’s post. Please keep up!

True. You commented on Blond D’s statement about Jordan and Kobe. I’ll try to keep up.

 

[hoy-ah!]

First off all it's okay- absolutely fine that you didn't answer my question (we can't answer everyone’s questions. I didn’t answer all of yours too)) as to who will stop Paige- but I think you implied it at the end by saying she'll get roughed up. I believe then we agree that you know of no one that can stop Paige Bueckers at the SF, correct? It's just that you think she'll get roughed up, right? Because you are unable to name one player on any team that can stop her, right?

Secondly, can you tell me why it's relevant how many years Paige has played SF? She played SG for the 2nd half oof her frosh year in which CWil played SF. UCONN switches everything. So you don't think that relevant yet on a prior post you replied to me about Morrow and Reese? Why is it that it was relevant to mention power players like Reese and Morrow vs Paige but at the same time ask how many minutes Paige has played at SF? And Paige has played a lot of sg in h/s and as mentioned the 2nd half of her frosh year which she ended up being NPOY.

And how many minutes did CWill play SF in her career before UCON put her there in 2020-2021? How about Evian Westbrook playing PF that year?

And your point about South Carolina losing to Iowa is the point that I made about this is college game and not a pro game. So, to summarize there's going to be several teams out there that can pound UCONN in the paint, defend the perimeter to minimize Paige/Azzi, play great transition defense and nail down outside shots. SO how many WNBA teams does UCONN have on their schedule?

And personally I've never seen a team win with defense only at Division 1 or Pro level or just Offense. You win with both. As far as having the better front line, now it's no longer about size when I mentioned it was the Arizona guard that most beat UCONN or the Stanford SF that was Paige’s size?

And the definition of "frontline" is archaic as a generalization. Is the Sf a part of the frontline or considered more of a perimeter player? Thus when I played and have watched for over 50 years, I notice teams can do things differently. Imo UCONN's Defense will be way better than you are representing here. And when you mention the frontline’s won because they were better, yet in the same post you made it clear Soth Carolina lost because their gaurs couldn’t shoot. So- whether you have the better frontline or not really doesn’t mean as much as you imply, does it?

I'm not going to answer all of your questions, as you have a LOT of them. Who can guard Paige at the SF position, or any position...? Anyone can guard her (as against any other player), will they be effective? Who knows. These are all rhetorical questions. Put the best 5 players on the floor, irrespective of "labels". Isn't that the beauty of the offense? Each player able to play multiple positions.

You don't need to respond to my questions. I'm going to end here.

 

[ballerfan]

The colege game is much different than the pros. For example, the NBA can buy players to fill spots so you can put players in their natural postions. and Chicago and LA have the resources es to do whatever they want. Thereofre the comparison between Jordan and Paige is way off base. UCONN can't buy a SF that is healthy to allow Paige to be the fulltime pg. If UCONN can't buy plyrers like Chicago and LA are able to do, then how is the comparison relevant?

As far as Jordan not being fully formed- what does that mean? How many eventual terrific players are fully formed when they leave early and enter the NBA? It was extremley obvious he was going to be great but ofc no one expected that great. Anyone that couldn't tell he was going ot be great - you can just see his handle and atheticism were off the charts just had blinders on. As far as his freshman year, you are right. But I necver said it was. Not sure why you brought that up becuase I don't beleive there si relevance?

As far as Piage moving to pg I don't beleiver it will have one iota of a differecne that that is her best postion - it will be because either Nika collapsed or a player such as Caroline can be trusted to not be injured and is playing well (or a slimmer chance that AUbrey drills a lot of mid-range shots in a veyr efficent way. Then it wouldn't matter oen buit of best postion but just who is palyign best. IMO Geno has doen this throughout his career and imo it's why he has won as often as he has. He has played many players off their best postion and won.

mihale jordan norht caolian highlyights youtube - Google Search

I wrote my post while drinking coffee this morning. It was a bit off topic and not important, and I’m not going to bother anyone with more comments on Jordan. You and I disagree on this one.

I want Nika to be the PG. I think Geno will eventually choose Paige as PG. I’ve already explained why in several posts. I understand that you disagree, and I doubt anyone here wants me to repeat myself. Happy Wednesday, hoophuskee.

 

[hoophuskee]

I'm not going to answer all of your questions, as you have a LOT of them. Who can guard Paige at the SF position, or any position...? Anyone can guard her (as against any other player), will they be effective? Who knows. These are all rhetorical questions. Put the best 5 players on the floor, irrespective of "labels". Isn't that the beauty of the offense? Each player able to play multiple positions.

You don't need to respond to my questions. I'm going to end here.

Who knows? Soe we have a former NPOY but who knows anything then? Well, I know she will be great if she were healthy just as you knwo she will struggle with rebounding vs others as SF. .

 

[nwhoopfan]

Contributing to the thread drift...it was a while ago, but the way I remember those Bulls teams Jordan and Pippen had the ball on offense the vast majority of the time. Paxson and Kerr (also B.J. Armstrong) were mostly there to take 3 pointers, none of them were hardly what I would call a PG.

 

[Blond D.]

Please show me where I brought up Jordan or Kobe. I responded to Blond D’s post. Please keep up!

yeah, thats right. it was ME that brought it up and I still believe its relevant. Having Nika with Azzi and Paige to start plus Aaliyah and another big (not necessarily Aubrey or Caroline )is the way i think Geno will go. Probably Jana or Ice will be the big. That will give us the most firepower, best defense and best rebounding to start the fast break transition we love to run.

 

[Skeets]

Just watched Geno’s interview. No one can see the future, but this is what I think is going to happen, not necessarily what I want to happen.

First game of the season
Nika, Paige, Azzi, Aubrey, Aaliyah
Based on last year’s performance and seniority

First game of the tournament
I feel a little more hopeful for Nika after listening to the interview, though Geno was clear that Nika would be playing fewer minutes.
So maybe Nika, Paige, Azzi, Ice, Aaliyah

My gut feeling about the tournament starting lineup
Paige, Azzi, Caroline, Aaliyah, Jana

Too bad we can’t bet on the Boneyard.

"Too bad we can’t bet on the Boneyard."

Hmm intriguing thought. We can't bet, but we can come up with a "prognosticator" like contest. Say something like 2 points for each correct starter in game 1, game 10, game 20, etc. Perhaps a bonus for getting all 5 correct. Someone with lots of time on their hands want to put this together?

My prognostication for such a contest: Deacon, Alydar and a couple of others lose

 

[hoy-ah!]

A final thought on this thread, and focused on the thread's question: Who is the starting point guard? We have the luxury of history now. Given a healthy PB and a healthy NM on the roster of the 2022-2023 team, who do you start at point guard? We all remember the games with the turnovers, the uncharacteristic tendency to not play smart basketball, etc. This is not a slight to Nika, she did a fantastic job. But, to me PB as PG propels the team to the Final 4, and likely the Finals. Ohio State game is an afterthought.

This doesn't mean Nika shouldn't be in the starting 5. She can, as a defensive specialist, look to stymie an opposing teams' top players. For me, the team has a different vibe when Paige is running the team, and when Nika is running the team. Paige and Caitlin Clark are very similar players. Very gifted, cerebral players with the killer instinct.

I'm left to wonder/lament in not seeing a team play comprising of Paige, Lou, Dorka, ... that would have been beautiful basketball. Lou and Dorka because of their final year of eligibility. Lou, another very gifted and cerebral player. She gave much more than what was asked. Alas, that's hoops, that's life. Thank you Lou and Dorka.

 

[Alydar]

They didnt play pg because they were playing pro ball and the Chicago Bulls and LA Lakers could afford to buy any position they needed. And Jordan with North Caolina had an experienced pg as a freshman. After that Jordan won nothing at North Carolina regardless best postion or not.

As a matter of fact after Jordan went to the NBA. In the 1st year there used ot be a comment (which I don't want to say about Dean Smith who obviously was a super coach), making fun of him a bit.

I have no problem with what you and Alydar are saying about CD. But brnnging up pro ball vs colege ball is imo way off base. Maya Moore played PF most of her career at UCONN.. Her best postion was SF as a pro. Morgan Tuck played pf or c at UCONN. But her best postion would have bene SF in pro ball. Swin Cash was a pf at UCONN but her best postion in the pros was sf.

You can't compare pro ball the way you and alydar are trying wih Kobe and MJ and then try to tie it into Paige.

It was a Nika fan who dragged the pros into this discussion, not me. My opinion is very simple. There is no good reason to put Bueckers anywhere but at pg where she can most fully utilize her skills. There is ample talent available for the other 4 positions. If Geno had a hole somewhere else Bueckers might play out of position but there are zero holes in the roster.