South Carolina Transfers

[DefenseBB]

I don't have a horse in this race and while the sheer number of transfers leaving the Gamecocks has me a bit concerned, Vic is trying to do at MS what Dawn already has done at SC-develop a huge following, regularly get top recruits, vie for a conference title year in/year out and make Final Fours every 2/3 years.

Vic had a great run with Vivians and McCowan, he now needs to do it again with a new cast of players, which BTW, I do think he can do. Can he recruit top player from HS vs. the transfer portal? That's the one concern on him I think he needs to work on.

That said, these two programs will continue to vie for SEC Supremacy the next few years. Texas A&M should be top dog next year but CC worries me as does the A&M Defense. Tennessee still has talent and it remains to be seen how KJH will handle the pressure cooker that is VolNation-they eat their young over there!

All in all, keep the dialogue going in the current respectful manner as I genuinely like both teams and even MOST of their fans...

 

[Undercovervol]

I like Vic Schaeffer. I think he's a great coach. He's done a great job at Miss State. I think Miss State will continue to be a good team next season.

I'm a little perplexed at why he gets so much credit for replacing starters.

In 2017 his top three scorers were McCowans, Vivians, and Morgan William.

In 2018, his top scorers were McCowans, Vivians, Morgan William and two seniors Schaeffer and Johnson.

What exactly was so surprising about them still be a national contender? They were certainly picked to be contenders by everyone.

In 2019, they lost a lot and were not near as good. they made the Elite 8 behind the SEC player of the year, experienced players and transfers. They had relatively few big wins in a season where the SEC was down. Again, not an unexpected result, but a quality season.

It's not clear to me how he's worked any miracles. He's done about what everyone thought he would.

It's not real clear to me what Schaeffer has ever done that Staley has not, but I guess the folksy old guy seems more coach-y than the inner city Philly kid with the National Title.

I think Vic is a little overrated too. He puts good teams on the floor and gets them to play hard, but offensively I think he’s challenged. I’ve watched many of their games closely, and rarely do they run sets besides that awful weave that works well sometimes but overall has to be a detriment to the team by making them run too much. McCowan didn’t develop much of an offensive game besides offensive rebounding, and he under utilized AEH last season during a time when she was shooting over 50% from 3. His offensive doesn’t use much screening, and he’s lucky he has guards able to go 1v1 in an overall elementary offense.
Defensively he failed to make any adjustments against Oregon to win the game. Time and again they exploited McCowan in pick and rolls. She continued to hedge to the team’s detriment.
He’s won some big games, but he’s also lost some big games. He’s a top tier coach but a step behind Geno, Muffet, etc. I think if he had UConn’s roster this year he would’ve lost more games than Geno. He also plays a weak schedule.

 

[DaBball]

I think Vic is a little overrated too. He puts good teams on the floor and gets them to play hard, but offensively I think he’s challenged. I’ve watched many of their games closely, and rarely do they run sets besides that awful weave that works well sometimes but overall has to be a detriment to the team by making them run too much. McCowan didn’t develop much of an offensive game besides offensive rebounding, and he under utilized AEH last season during a time when she was shooting over 50% from 3. His offensive doesn’t use much screening, and he’s lucky he has guards able to go 1v1 in an overall elementary offense.
Defensively he failed to make any adjustments against Oregon to win the game. Time and again they exploited McCowan in pick and rolls. She continued to hedge to the team’s detriment.
He’s won some big games, but he’s also lost some big games. He’s a top tier coach but a step behind Geno, Muffet, etc. I think if he had UConn’s roster this year he would’ve lost more games than Geno. He also plays a weak schedule.

Has to be the first time a coach whose team has been 2nd in the country in PPG has been titled “offensively challenged”.

I don’t think he is “lucky” to have guards that can score in the one on one, those are the types of guards he recruits. He also had guards like Schaefer, Ro Johnson, Bibby, and Espinoza-Hunter that weren’t one on one players and they still did well.

I think defensively, he is very stubborn. This season, they could have been a very good zone team with McCowan in the middle at all times, but he was reluctant to try it except a few plays here and there.

 

[SimpleDawg]

I think Vic is a little overrated too. He puts good teams on the floor and gets them to play hard, but offensively I think he’s challenged. I’ve watched many of their games closely, and rarely do they run sets besides that awful weave that works well sometimes but overall has to be a detriment to the team by making them run too much. McCowan didn’t develop much of an offensive game besides offensive rebounding, and he under utilized AEH last season during a time when she was shooting over 50% from 3. His offensive doesn’t use much screening, and he’s lucky he has guards able to go 1v1 in an overall elementary offense.
Defensively he failed to make any adjustments against Oregon to win the game. Time and again they exploited McCowan in pick and rolls. She continued to hedge to the team’s detriment.
He’s won some big games, but he’s also lost some big games. He’s a top tier coach but a step behind Geno, Muffet, etc. I think if he had UConn’s roster this year he would’ve lost more games than Geno. He also plays a weak schedule.

What are you talking about?

Offensively he's challenged?

McCowan didn't develop an offensive game? The 3rd overall pick didn't learn any post moves? McCowan is a master at post position stances and planting herself firm. She generates a lot of strength like that, and that's why she's untouchable when she gets her best positions.

AEH wasn't as good until the end. But this isn't anything new, we see this a lot.

We don't do a lot of screening, I agree. I look for that to change next year with Morris and Taylor.

His Oregon gameplans were a puzzlepiece I agree, but reading his comments post-game... it sounded like he doesn't think this team could've won a championship.

Still, I agree his comments about Oregon were a bit suspect. He was so worried about UCLA and Jordin Canada last year it nearly tore his heart out. Where was the urgency this year?

What are the big games that we've lost? Our big wins were HUGE wins, and way bigger than any of our losses.

He’s a top tier coach but a step behind Geno, Muffet, etc. I think if he had UConn’s roster this year he would’ve lost more games than Geno.

Man, wtf. Where is this coming from?


...

 

[Undercovervol]

What are you talking about?

Offensively he's challenged?

McCowan didn't develop an offensive game? The 3rd overall pick didn't learn any post moves? McCowan is a master at post position stances and planting herself firm. She generates a lot of strength like that, and that's why she's untouchable when she gets her best positions.

AEH wasn't as good until the end. But this isn't anything new, we see this a lot.

We don't do a lot of screening, I agree. I look for that to change next year with Morris and Taylor.

His Oregon gameplans were a puzzlepiece I agree, but reading his comments post-game... it sounded like he doesn't think this team could've won a championship.

Still, I agree his comments about Oregon were a bit suspect. He was so worried about UCLA and Jordin Canada last year it nearly tore his heart out. Where was the urgency this year?

What are the big games that we've lost? Our big wins were HUGE wins, and way bigger than any of our losses.



Man, wtf. Where is this coming from?


...

To be clear, I like watching Miss State and watched most of their games this year.
I stand by what I said. McCowan isn't the most polished post player, and often times she stood waiting for an offensive rebound, particularly in the 1st half to save energy (nothing wrong with that). It doesn't mean that McCowan won't be a great player in the WNBA...but she's going to face Fowles, Griner, Cambage, etc. We'll see how she does. I will say that her foul shot shooting was impressive down the stretch. She has a limited back to the basket game and no face up game.
Again, I stand by the AEH criticism. She was shooting over 50% from three, but the pound it inside offense wasn't really looking for her. Yes, she had some defensive problems, but still. There were games where she only got 5-7 shots...I think that's unacceptable for that type of shooter.
They could've beaten Oregon. Defensively they couldn't guard the pick and roll and refused to switch to zone. It's been discussed before.
Well, you've lost several big games. No hate, but you've lost in two championship games, several SEC championship tournament games to South Carolina...You've also won some big games. So, I stand by that too.
And overall, that weave isn't great offense. Even with the #2 ppg nationally, how much of that came from offensive rebounds? It's not exactly a great offensive system. I think it has to be exhausting for those players to run that 75% of the time.

 

[Undercovervol]

Has to be the first time a coach whose team has been 2nd in the country in PPG has been titled “offensively challenged”.

I don’t think he is “lucky” to have guards that can score in the one on one, those are the types of guards he recruits. He also had guards like Schaefer, Ro Johnson, Bibby, and Espinoza-Hunter that weren’t one on one players and they still did well.

I think defensively, he is very stubborn. This season, they could have been a very good zone team with McCowan in the middle at all times, but he was reluctant to try it except a few plays here and there.

That #2 ppg in the country came from offensive rebounds. It's an impressive stat, but don't pretend his system produced it. That came from McCowan and Howard being the best rebounders in the country.

 

[DaBball]

That #2 ppg in the country came from offensive rebounds. It's an impressive stat, but don't pretend his system produced it. That came from McCowan and Howard being the best rebounders in the country.

That’s like saying don’t be fooled by Notre Dame’s #1 PPG, a lot of it came from transition points. Of course a lot of your offense will come from what your team is best at. Offenses are to be built around strengths.

 

[SimpleDawg]

To be clear, I like watching Miss State and watched most of their games this year.
I stand by what I said. McCowan isn't the most polished post player, and often times she stood waiting for an offensive rebound, particularly in the 1st half to save energy (nothing wrong with that). It doesn't mean that McCowan won't be a great player in the WNBA...but she's going to face Fowles, Griner, Cambage, etc. We'll see how she does. I will say that her foul shot shooting was impressive down the stretch. She has a limited back to the basket game and no face up game.
Again, I stand by the AEH criticism. She was shooting over 50% from three, but the pound it inside offense wasn't really looking for her. Yes, she had some defensive problems, but still. There were games where she only got 5-7 shots...I think that's unacceptable for that type of shooter.
They could've beaten Oregon. Defensively they couldn't guard the pick and roll and refused to switch to zone. It's been discussed before.
Well, you've lost several big games. No hate, but you've lost in two championship games, several SEC championship tournament games to South Carolina...You've also won some big games. So, I stand by that too.
And overall, that weave isn't great offense. Even with the #2 ppg nationally, how much of that came from offensive rebounds? It's not exactly a great offensive system. I think it has to be exhausting for those players to run that 75% of the time.

While you keep talking about us being "limited," I don't think it matters as long we're dialing up points easily. I don't think there's much of a "system." I think we're just some individually talented offensive players taking advantage of teams with weaker individual skillsets. Danberry, McCowan, Howard, and Espinoza all kill people doing what they know how to do best, and that's why we score so much and routinely lay the smack down.

And that goes for your criticism of McCowan too. I think you get too caught up with this idea of being "limited" - whether it's McCowan or her team. She doesn't need to do everything a normal post-player does. Just use her strengths which most people have no answer for and are unmatched - even the WNBA realizes this. It's true that she dominates often by a limited array of movements, some offensive rebounds, and sometimes just by being stronger. But still, she was picked by a team that needs size and she was chosen to inject some life into a struggling offense. She'll turn that team around - and now she has Vivians - they surely know how to work together. Though she's injured this year.

Every elite team had some big losses. Some with even ugly losses - ex:.... South Carolina


..

 

[SCGamecock]

Has to be the first time a coach whose team has been 2nd in the country in PPG has been titled “offensively challenged”.

I don’t think he is “lucky” to have guards that can score in the one on one, those are the types of guards he recruits. He also had guards like Schaefer, Ro Johnson, Bibby, and Espinoza-Hunter that weren’t one on one players and they still did well.

I think defensively, he is very stubborn. This season, they could have been a very good zone team with McCowan in the middle at all times, but he was reluctant to try it except a few plays here and there.

This season he used zone to shut down South Carolina at home before that game got out of hand. That was probably the most Vic has ever used zone. Even Dawn was surprised by how much zone he used in the game. You literally have to bludgeon Vic into using zone, and even then he may not use it.

 

[Britt87]

I think Vic is a little overrated too. He puts good teams on the floor and gets them to play hard, but offensively I think he’s challenged. I’ve watched many of their games closely, and rarely do they run sets besides that awful weave that works well sometimes but overall has to be a detriment to the team by making them run too much. McCowan didn’t develop much of an offensive game besides offensive rebounding, and he under utilized AEH last season during a time when she was shooting over 50% from 3. His offensive doesn’t use much screening, and he’s lucky he has guards able to go 1v1 in an overall elementary offense.
Defensively he failed to make any adjustments against Oregon to win the game. Time and again they exploited McCowan in pick and rolls. She continued to hedge to the team’s detriment.
He’s won some big games, but he’s also lost some big games. He’s a top tier coach but a step behind Geno, Muffet, etc. I think if he had UConn’s roster this year he would’ve lost more games than Geno. He also plays a weak schedule.

What? UCONNS roster is waaaaaay more talented than States.

 

[bballnut90]

I think Vic is a little overrated too. He puts good teams on the floor and gets them to play hard, but offensively I think he’s challenged. I’ve watched many of their games closely, and rarely do they run sets besides that awful weave that works well sometimes but overall has to be a detriment to the team by making them run too much. McCowan didn’t develop much of an offensive game besides offensive rebounding, and he under utilized AEH last season during a time when she was shooting over 50% from 3. His offensive doesn’t use much screening, and he’s lucky he has guards able to go 1v1 in an overall elementary offense.
Defensively he failed to make any adjustments against Oregon to win the game. Time and again they exploited McCowan in pick and rolls. She continued to hedge to the team’s detriment.
He’s won some big games, but he’s also lost some big games. He’s a top tier coach but a step behind Geno, Muffet, etc. I think if he had UConn’s roster this year he would’ve lost more games than Geno. He also plays a weak schedule.

Pretty much disagree with just about every point on here. This past season Mississippi State was 2nd in the country in scoring, just behind the offensive juggernaut that was Notre Dame. Isolate just his conference scoring and he's still at 81 ppg, good for top 10 and ahead of almost all other programs that get credit for being good offensive teams if you isolate their conference play. Overall they were 5th in FG% and 9th in 3pt% nationally.

His teams don't run a ton of passing dominated set plays, but they take good shots and ultimately get the ball to the right players. He's also utilized his quick guards very well, putting them in isolation situations where they can get their own shot and score. He did it for Johnson/Vivians/William last year, this season it was Danberry and Howard. It's not flashy, doesn't rack up assists, and doesn't look like what most other top programs do, but it's still good offense. 2 years ago before McCowan came into her own, his team utilized much more screening from their bigs. They'll use more screening this upcoming year without McCowan's presence inside.

In regards to McCowan, I highly suggest you watch any footage of her from 2016 or 2017 and compare that to her play the past 2 years. She has improved by leaps and bounds as much as any player I've ever seen. She was destroyed by Kalani Brown as a sophomore but finished with more accolades than Kalani this year. Offensively she is a completely different player than she was 2 years ago. Her FG% went from 49% to 57% to 60% to 66% as a senior. Her FT percentage went from 63% as a junior to 76% as a senior. Her scoring went from 6.6ppg to 8.7 to 18.2 to 18.4. No, she doesn't use skyhooks or have a sweet midrange jumper, but she is much better at finishing through contact, passing out of a double team and finishing around the basket than she was her first 3 seasons.

When was AEH underutilized? She played well against Oregon offensively (the whole team did), but they couldn't stop Oregon's offense. I agree with your statement regarding the pick and roll and that is a knock on Vic, especially since the same thing happened in round 1.

And regarding your last statement about how he'd handle Geno's roster....you do realize that Vic's most highly recruited player was someone who couldn't get off the bench at UCONN? UCONN had three former HS POYs on its roster, a 3x All-American in Collier, plus 2 other top 5 recruits in ONO/Dangerfield. Vic had 1 HS All-American.


I get that people find praise for Vic to be redundant or annoying, but he's clearly one of the very best coaches in the country. The job he's done the past 3 seasons of developing players and putting together title contending teams matches up favorably with anyone.

 

[bballnut90]

I like Vic Schaeffer. I think he's a great coach. He's done a great job at Miss State. I think Miss State will continue to be a good team next season.

I'm a little perplexed at why he gets so much credit for replacing starters.

In 2017 his top three scorers were McCowans, Vivians, and Morgan William.

In 2018, his top scorers were McCowans, Vivians, Morgan William and two seniors Schaeffer and Johnson.

What exactly was so surprising about them still be a national contender? They were certainly picked to be contenders by everyone.

In 2019, they lost a lot and were not near as good. they made the Elite 8 behind the SEC player of the year, experienced players and transfers. They had relatively few big wins in a season where the SEC was down. Again, not an unexpected result, but a quality season.

It's not clear to me how he's worked any miracles. He's done about what everyone thought he would.

It's not real clear to me what Schaeffer has ever done that Staley has not, but I guess the folksy old guy seems more coach-y than the inner city Philly kid with the National Title.

2017 he lost 3 starters from a team that just wasn't all that good offensively. Fast forward one season and the improvement we saw from McCowan, Vivians, Johnson and Schaefer was truly remarkable. McCowan blossomed from being an awkward post into a dominant All-American, Vivians' shot selection improved immensely, and the other 2 guards stepped in as 3pt assassins after playing reserved roles the year prior. While people thought Mississippi State would be good, NO ONE thought they'd go undefeated in the regular season and nearly win it all. First SEC team in 20 years to have a perfect regular season. No one expected that.


2019 they lost 3 times all year after losing 4 starters. Many SC fans on here thought Dawn would retake ownership of the SEC, but Missisippi State dominated the conference. Yes, their schedule was light and the SEC was down (though not terrible), but they were still a great team. They were a #1 seed and lost a Final Four berth by 4 points in a hostile road environment. Their resume lacked big wins, but they still were a major title threat.

Vic relied on one new transfer, Howard, but only McCowan/Holmes had ample experience. Bibby/AEH/Danberry/Scott were seldom used the year prior and the team had to create chemistry with essentially a brand new roster. That's not easy to do. We saw SC in 2017 struggle to incorporate a very talented transfer in Kaela Davis for much of the year until she found her groove in the tournament. Vic gets credit for a strong coaching job in 2019.

Miracles worked...well, I know it's redundant, but knocking off UCONN in 2017 was definitely a miracle worked. As was beating a much more talented Baylor team in the Elite 8. Getting his 2018 team to go undefeated through the regular season qualifies as a miracle worked. No miracles this year but he did a stellar job coaching his team.

I personally think he's a better coach right now than Staley based on the product he's put on the court the past couple of years and how well he develops his players/teams. I also don't think championships are the end all be all when assessing coaches. I think Staley is great and admit that my opinion may change over the next year or 2 if SC retakes the SEC throne. Overall I love that there's a new budding rivalry in the SEC and that both fan bases are so impassioned about their teams. Both programs sold out arenas for their home and home this past year and I expect more of the same as both schools are loading up for the future.

 

[Carnac]

A lot of teams lost a lot of talent this year. Notre Dame loses all 5 starters and will start from scratch. Louisville, Baylor, Miss St. etc. will also have to make major over hauls to their starting lineups. It will be interesting to see how these teams fare. A rebuilding year for some to be sure. Right now, no one knows which team is going to emerge as the top team in the preseason. Oregon appears to be a strong contender (and a tough out) with the return of All-American Ionescu and AA honorable mention Ruthy Hebard for their final season.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

2017 he lost 3 starters from a team that just wasn't all that good offensively. Fast forward one season and the improvement we saw from McCowan, Vivians, Johnson and Schaefer was truly remarkable. McCowan blossomed from being an awkward post into a dominant All-American, Vivians' shot selection improved immensely, and the other 2 guards stepped in as 3pt assassins after playing reserved roles the year prior. While people thought Mississippi State would be good, NO ONE thought they'd go undefeated in the regular season and nearly win it all. First SEC team in 20 years to have a perfect regular season. No one expected that.


2019 they lost 3 times all year after losing 4 starters. Many SC fans on here thought Dawn would retake ownership of the SEC, but Missisippi State dominated the conference. Yes, their schedule was light and the SEC was down (though not terrible), but they were still a great team. They were a #1 seed and lost a Final Four berth by 4 points in a hostile road environment. Their resume lacked big wins, but they still were a major title threat.

Vic relied on one new transfer, Howard, but only McCowan/Holmes had ample experience. Bibby/AEH/Danberry/Scott were seldom used the year prior and the team had to create chemistry with essentially a brand new roster. That's not easy to do. We saw SC in 2017 struggle to incorporate a very talented transfer in Kaela Davis for much of the year until she found her groove in the tournament. Vic gets credit for a strong coaching job in 2019.

Miracles worked...well, I know it's redundant, but knocking off UCONN in 2017 was definitely a miracle worked. As was beating a much more talented Baylor team in the Elite 8. Getting his 2018 team to go undefeated through the regular season qualifies as a miracle worked. No miracles this year but he did a stellar job coaching his team.

I personally think he's a better coach right now than Staley based on the product he's put on the court the past couple of years and how well he develops his players/teams. I also don't think championships are the end all be all when assessing coaches. I think Staley is great and admit that my opinion may change over the next year or 2 if SC retakes the SEC throne. Overall I love that there's a new budding rivalry in the SEC and that both fan bases are so impassioned about their teams. Both programs sold out arenas for their home and home this past year and I expect more of the same as both schools are loading up for the future.

I guess we will see. You are pretty much where South Carolina was coming into last season, having lost the last showpiece from a dominant team.

South Carolina managed to finish in second place in the league and make the Sweet 16. I think Vic will be doing pretty well to match that.

Vic is basically just doing exactly what Staley did, but a couple of years behind and little bit less successfully.

I think you are in for an awakening this year when you realize that players do matter in the showcase elite games (you should already know that from your results this past season) and when you suddenly lack any league dominant player you are now vulnerable to teams that haven't touched you in the past.

Did you really give Vic credit for making the Elite 8 last year with transfers (without any struggle??) while suggesting that Staley struggled incorporating transfers when she finished 33-4 with a SEC title, SECT title, and a National Title?

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Again, I enjoy Miss State.

I have only really pulled against you when we needed a loss to get back in the SEC race. Your "miracle" vs UConn was much appreciated, though maybe figuring out how to flip that 10 point defeat vs UCONN in the title game might have given Staley more of the respect she really does deserve.

I think a multi-horse race between elites is more interesting than the running rough shod we'd had before and I don't actually think it particularly hurts one school to have the other be really good though I would like Rickea Jackson and Anriel Howard decisions to have gone the other way. I guess that might hurt.

 

[bballnut90]

I guess we will see. You are pretty much where South Carolina was coming into last season, having lost the last showpiece from a dominant team.

South Carolina managed to finish in second place in the league and make the Sweet 16. I think Vic will be doing pretty well to match that.

Vic is basically just doing exactly what Staley did, but a couple of years behind and little bit less successfully.

I think you are in for an awakening this year when you realize that players do matter in the showcase elite games (you should already know that from your results this past season) and when you suddenly lack any league dominant player you are now vulnerable to teams that haven't touched you in the past.

Did you really give Vic credit for making the Elite 8 last year with transfers (without any struggle??) while suggesting that Staley struggled incorporating transfers when she finished 33-4 with a SEC title, SECT title, and a National Title?

South Carolina had a LOT more coming back from 2018-->2019 than Mississippi State does going into next year. 4 starters returning, plus a former starter back from injury and both top reserves. The only loss from 2018 was Wilson. Mississippi State loses 65% of its scoring, 65% of its rebounding and 70% of its assists. I don't think it's a good comparison unless you're mainly trying to highlight that both teams lost a star post player.

The Kaela Davis reference wasn't meant to be a jab at Dawn but I was simply trying to point out that incorporating new talent isn't always a smooth transition and takes time. It was impressive how well Howard fit into her new role and I was giving Vic props for that. I wasn't stating that incorporating Howard was more credit worthy than SC incorporating Davis.

Very debatable about the less successful part. Titles aren't everything.

Mississippi State looks like they'll have a rebuilding year, South Carolina also has a lot of missing pieces due to transfer/graduation they'll need to make up. Last year a lot of Gamecock fans thought they'd be back on top of the SEC and we saw what happened. Should be a very interesting year with potential top teams like South Carolina, Mississippi State and Tennessee all looking drastically different.

 

[bballnut90]

A lot of teams lost a lot of talent this year. Notre Dame loses all 5 starters and will start from scratch. Louisville, Baylor, Miss St. etc. will also have to make major over hauls to their starting lineups. It will be interesting to see how these teams fare. A rebuilding year for some to be sure. Right now, no one knows which team is going to emerge as the top team in the preseason. Oregon appears to be a strong contender (and a tough out) with the return of All-American Ionescu and AA honorable mention Ruthy Hebard for their final season.

Not to mention UCONN loses their 2 best players and basically has a 4 woman roster unless one of Camara/Bent/Irwin/Griffin improves big time in the offseason. Oregon and Baylor appear to be the heavy weights going into next season but I think we'll see more upsets next year and greater parity.

 

[DeeHusky]

I think Vic is a little overrated too. He puts good teams on the floor and gets them to play hard, but offensively I think he’s challenged. I’ve watched many of their games closely, and rarely do they run sets besides that awful weave that works well sometimes but overall has to be a detriment to the team by making them run too much. McCowan didn’t develop much of an offensive game besides offensive rebounding, and he under utilized AEH last season during a time when she was shooting over 50% from 3. His offensive doesn’t use much screening, and he’s lucky he has guards able to go 1v1 in an overall elementary offense.
Defensively he failed to make any adjustments against Oregon to win the game. Time and again they exploited McCowan in pick and rolls. She continued to hedge to the team’s detriment.
He’s won some big games, but he’s also lost some big games. He’s a top tier coach but a step behind Geno, Muffet, etc. I think if he had UConn’s roster this year he would’ve lost more games than Geno. He also plays a weak schedule.

I definitely disagree. This year they had some guards that couldn’t score, but every year Vivians was there they scored pretty well. They were able to produce offense because teams focused on Vivians and it created opportunities for others to score—- Especially Vivians senior year with 4 sniper shooters surrounding McCowan.

Staley on the other hand has struggled to create offense even the year they won the championship, something was off about their offense.

 

[bballnut90]

What about Nika Muhl? Isn't she the 5th woman?


....

She's coming in 2020, not 2019.

 

[Undercovervol]

Pretty much disagree with just about every point on here. This past season Mississippi State was 2nd in the country in scoring, just behind the offensive juggernaut that was Notre Dame. Isolate just his conference scoring and he's still at 81 ppg, good for top 10 and ahead of almost all other programs that get credit for being good offensive teams if you isolate their conference play. Overall they were 5th in FG% and 9th in 3pt% nationally.

His teams don't run a ton of passing dominated set plays, but they take good shots and ultimately get the ball to the right players. He's also utilized his quick guards very well, putting them in isolation situations where they can get their own shot and score. He did it for Johnson/Vivians/William last year, this season it was Danberry and Howard. It's not flashy, doesn't rack up assists, and doesn't look like what most other top programs do, but it's still good offense. 2 years ago before McCowan came into her own, his team utilized much more screening from their bigs. They'll use more screening this upcoming year without McCowan's presence inside.

In regards to McCowan, I highly suggest you watch any footage of her from 2016 or 2017 and compare that to her play the past 2 years. She has improved by leaps and bounds as much as any player I've ever seen. She was destroyed by Kalani Brown as a sophomore but finished with more accolades than Kalani this year. Offensively she is a completely different player than she was 2 years ago. Her FG% went from 49% to 57% to 60% to 66% as a senior. Her FT percentage went from 63% as a junior to 76% as a senior. Her scoring went from 6.6ppg to 8.7 to 18.2 to 18.4. No, she doesn't use skyhooks or have a sweet midrange jumper, but she is much better at finishing through contact, passing out of a double team and finishing around the basket than she was her first 3 seasons.

When was AEH underutilized? She played well against Oregon offensively (the whole team did), but they couldn't stop Oregon's offense. I agree with your statement regarding the pick and roll and that is a knock on Vic, especially since the same thing happened in round 1.

And regarding your last statement about how he'd handle Geno's roster....you do realize that Vic's most highly recruited player was someone who couldn't get off the bench at UCONN? UCONN had three former HS POYs on its roster, a 3x All-American in Collier, plus 2 other top 5 recruits in ONO/Dangerfield. Vic had 1 HS All-American.


I get that people find praise for Vic to be redundant or annoying, but he's clearly one of the very best coaches in the country. The job he's done the past 3 seasons of developing players and putting together title contending teams matches up favorably with anyone.

In regards to the offensive points, I guess it depends on how you view the weave and how much he chose to run it, particularly in big games. I still think that while the weave might manufacture a good number of points, it doesn't necessarily make it a good offensive system. How much effort is it taking to get those points, when another system could get more points more efficiently? That brings in Notre Dame. Notre Dame's offense was far superior to State's offense this year. Why? Look at their assist numbers. They were actually able to pass the ball and create offense, rather than force it. So I guess I disagree that it's good offense.
I know that McCowan improved over time...that doesn't mean that she improved to the point of having a post game as good as Britney Griner's game, for example. She's still miles behind her in terms of fluidity, offensive moves, jump shooting, finishing through contact...McCowan's best weapon was offensive rebounding. That doesn't require finesse, but it does require strength. A player like Griner has both skills.
In regards to AEH, she rarely had more than 10 shot attempts in games where she was averaging over 50% from three. I'm just saying that Vic wasn't looking for her as much as he could, and he would take her out because of defense. I'm just weary of old school mentalities because of Warlick.
My point about UConn was that if Vic were given Geno's players, I don't think he would know how to utilize them as well as Geno. I think he would struggle to find roles that best utilize the skills of Samuelson and Walker, for example.

 

[DaBball]

My point about UConn was that if Vic were given Geno's players, I don't think he would know how to utilize them as well as Geno. I think he would struggle to find roles that best utilize the skills of Samuelson and Walker, for example.

I think a lot of people may say the same in reverse. Geno recruits players that fit his system and Vic recruits people that fit his. Geno may struggle to find a role to utilize Danberry and Holmes’ skillsets, just because neither can hit the 3.

 

[bballnut90]

In regards to the offensive points, I guess it depends on how you view the weave and how much he chose to run it, particularly in big games. I still think that while the weave might manufacture a good number of points, it doesn't necessarily make it a good offensive system. How much effort is it taking to get those points, when another system could get more points more efficiently? That brings in Notre Dame. Notre Dame's offense was far superior to State's offense this year. Why? Look at their assist numbers. They were actually able to pass the ball and create offense, rather than force it. So I guess I disagree that it's good offense.
I know that McCowan improved over time...that doesn't mean that she improved to the point of having a post game as good as Britney Griner's game, for example. She's still miles behind her in terms of fluidity, offensive moves, jump shooting, finishing through contact...McCowan's best weapon was offensive rebounding. That doesn't require finesse, but it does require strength. A player like Griner has both skills.
In regards to AEH, she rarely had more than 10 shot attempts in games where she was averaging over 50% from three. I'm just saying that Vic wasn't looking for her as much as he could, and he would take her out because of defense. I'm just weary of old school mentalities because of Warlick.
My point about UConn was that if Vic were given Geno's players, I don't think he would know how to utilize them as well as Geno. I think he would struggle to find roles that best utilize the skills of Samuelson and Walker, for example.

Points scored=offense. Having a passing dominated offense isnt a prerequisite to having a good offense. Mississippi State was highly ranked in both FG%, turnovers per game, and total points per game so no idea where you're getting the idea that they forced their offense too much.

You do realize that Griner was (and is) a horrible rebounder for being 6-9? Big T isn't nearly as long and lanky as Brit, nor are their styles of play similar. Griner has the best fluidity, quickness and coordination of any 6-9 big I've seen. I think you're mistaking that for offense. McCowan is never going to be an offensive whiz but her offensive game improved by leaps and bounds over her career. There is no denying that.

Mississippi State's only game I can think of where you reference AEH being under utilized is against Oregon. She finished with 9 shots and went 4-7 from deep and played 38 minutes. Mississippi State scored 84 points and shot almost 50% from the floor. No one was forcing shots that werent there. Their offense was on point that game. Their defense was the issue. Vic is older but he isnt "old school" like Holly Warlick or even Pat who primarily preached defense and rebounding. Mississippi State by all accounts was a stellar offensive team the past 2 seasons and got the most out of its kids.

I also have zero idea how you can conclude that regarding Vic vs Geno without anything to base it off of. The only player theyve both coached is AEH, and it is clear that she has thrived at Mississippi State as a 3pt specialist compared to being a bench warmer under Geno. Vic's teams the last 2 years have utilized player strengths and sheltered player weaknesses probably as well as anyone in the nation. A player like Blair Schaefer was a major contributor on both ends despite being an undersized SG without great athleticism or general ability. Look at how much better Vic did utilizing Howard than Blair did the past 3 years. Those are both prime examples of utilizing players skills.

 

[bballnut90]

I think a lot of people may say the same in reverse. Geno recruits players that fit his system and Vic recruits people that fit his. Geno may struggle to find a role to utilize Danberry and Holmes’ skillsets, just because neither can hit the 3.

The original statement is just flat out inaccurate and doesnt have any basis IMO. Vic has proven he is among the very best in the country at getting the most out of his talent. He hasnt had any top recruits or HS AAs like Geno, so maybe the OP is guessing he wouldnt develop highly recruited players as well as Geno? The argument would make sense if he put in the name of another coach who cant develop players but Vic's best strength as a coach may be player development and utilizing their strengths.

 

[SimpleDawg]

In regards to the offensive points, I guess it depends on how you view the weave and how much he chose to run it, particularly in big games. I still think that while the weave might manufacture a good number of points, it doesn't necessarily make it a good offensive system. How much effort is it taking to get those points, when another system could get more points more efficiently? That brings in Notre Dame. Notre Dame's offense was far superior to State's offense this year. Why? Look at their assist numbers. They were actually able to pass the ball and create offense, rather than force it. So I guess I disagree that it's good offense.
I know that McCowan improved over time...that doesn't mean that she improved to the point of having a post game as good as Britney Griner's game, for example. She's still miles behind her in terms of fluidity, offensive moves, jump shooting, finishing through contact...McCowan's best weapon was offensive rebounding. That doesn't require finesse, but it does require strength. A player like Griner has both skills.
In regards to AEH, she rarely had more than 10 shot attempts in games where she was averaging over 50% from three. I'm just saying that Vic wasn't looking for her as much as he could, and he would take her out because of defense. I'm just weary of old school mentalities because of Warlick.
My point about UConn was that if Vic were given Geno's players, I don't think he would know how to utilize them as well as Geno. I think he would struggle to find roles that best utilize the skills of Samuelson and Walker, for example.

Define efficient? It's not like we miss a whole bunch of shots and jack up a ton of bricks. We were a high field-goal percentage shooting team. If it doesn't hurt the team, what does it matter if we win by assists (Notre Dame), pick-and-roll (Oregon), or 3 point-shooting (UConn), or by whatever it is we did last year? I'd say Baylor got the better of all of us because they had the defense and a stud shot blocker Lauren Cox. She won the game vs Oregon because she recovered to the weak side so well and blocked so many Ionescu lay-ups. And Baylor won the championship. Short of being able to stop Notre Dame, their defense carried them to wins over UConn and Oregon, and essentially was the foundation of their championship team.

I'm still kind of caught a bit vague about your McCowan claims. It's like saying Shaq was limited because all he did was bulldoze people in the NBA for 25 points per game. It's not like he wasn't integral in winning games, and championships with the Lakers.

And vise versa applies here. Geno wouldn't know what to do with William and he'd probably waste her, and he probably wouldn't value Vivians as much as Vic did because her shooting percentage at the beginning of her career would get her benched, without a chance to see playing time again for the rest of her career. It does not appear like most people think Geno is better at developing big girls than Vic, which probably means he wouldn't do as good with McCowan as Vic would. This goes both ways, bud.

...

 

[Gamecockfan77]

South Carolina had a LOT more coming back from 2018-->2019 than Mississippi State does going into next year. 4 starters returning, plus a former starter back from injury and both top reserves. The only loss from 2018 was Wilson. Mississippi State loses 65% of its scoring, 65% of its rebounding and 70% of its assists. I don't think it's a good comparison unless you're mainly trying to highlight that both teams lost a star post player.

The Kaela Davis reference wasn't meant to be a jab at Dawn but I was simply trying to point out that incorporating new talent isn't always a smooth transition and takes time. It was impressive how well Howard fit into her new role and I was giving Vic props for that. I wasn't stating that incorporating Howard was more credit worthy than SC incorporating Davis.

Very debatable about the less successful part. Titles aren't everything.

Mississippi State looks like they'll have a rebuilding year, South Carolina also has a lot of missing pieces due to transfer/graduation they'll need to make up. Last year a lot of Gamecock fans thought they'd be back on top of the SEC and we saw what happened. Should be a very interesting year with potential top teams like South Carolina, Mississippi State and Tennessee all looking drastically different.

Seriously who thought we were winning the sec last year?