South Carolina Transfers

[SCspur]

Right...but you and another SC fan were discrediting a statement I made that was in fact true, so I'm holding you accountable for that and backing up my point.

And like I said, I dont think Mississippi State is necessarily going to be better or worse than SC this upcoming year. Too many unknowns and variables to predict that IMO. SC looks better on paper with Harris and MHH back, but MSU was the better team this year so I'm not sure the gap has closed to the point that SC surpasses MSU. Time will tell. Any of Kentucky, A&M, MSU, UT, and SC are all potential SEC title contenders depending on how the season shakes out. The conference feels much more up in the air compared to previous seasons due to players graduating and new faces coming in.

Will UT be better than Mizzou, Georgia and Arkansas? I know your a LV fan but I want your opinion.

 

[SCspur]

Ionescu and Hebard are gone after 2019-2020. I don't think there's a chance Oregon will be ranked in any preseason top 5 in 2020-2021 unless they win the championship - that may tilt the pendulum slightly. But even then, a team that loses nobody like Mississippi State is probably gonna be higher regardless.

UConn is up there. Like I said, it's preliminary predictions. Who are the 3 #1 recruits? I'm just asking because I'm not sure who you're referring to... I don't really know UConn stuff as well as their fans. Bueckers... and? Well... potentially Westbrook, but Westbrook can't go to both Oregon and UConn - but if she chooses UConn, I agree UConn should be in the top 5.

...

I think they could still be top 5 if Chavez and Baby Sabally pans out. A lot will depend on how Boley expands and their 2020 class finishes.

 

[SimpleDawg]

Oregon will have a big POY threat in Satou Sabally, a top notch 3pt shooter in Boley and the younger Sabally who is supposed to be a stud. They're also said to be in the mix for Westbrook. A lineup built around those 3 along with Graves coaching is a strong Final Four threat IMO.

Megan Walker was a #1 recruit in 2017, Christyn Williams in 2018, Bueckers in 2020. Westbrook was #2 in 2017, ONO #5 in 2018. By far the most top heavy roster going into 2020-21 when looking at recruiting rankings, but it doesnt always pan out.

This past season UCONN had 3 number one recruits, a #3 recruit, a #5 and a #6 recruit and wasnt able to win it all or dominate like they had in previous years. On paper they're going to be great, but how players develop/mesh remains to be seen.

I think Graves still needs to load his roster up a little. This year he had 9 players. Next few years he'll have more, and already has a couple of high recruits but still..,. I think depth was an issue last year and should be addressed in this offseason. While Sabally will be a POY candidate, every other top 5 team will have one and they might not be able to overcome a more loaded team. Will they be a Final Four threat? Sure, but I don't think they'll be ranked in the preseason top 5. I'm just speaking in that context. When you have Louisville, UConn, Mississippi State, South Carolina, and Baylor..... there's 5 teams already with potentially a better looking 2020-2021 team heading into the season. Not to say Oregon can't threaten to put a dent to them though once it's all said and done though.


.....

 

[bballnut90]

I think Graves still needs to load his roster up a little. This year he had 9 players. Next few years he'll have more, and already has a couple of high recruits but still..,. I think depth was an issue last year and should be addressed in this offseason. While Sabally will be a POY candidate, every other top 5 team will have one and they might not be able to overcome a more loaded team. Will they be a Final Four threat? Sure, but I don't think they'll be ranked in the preseason top 5. I'm just speaking in that context. When you have Louisville, UConn, Mississippi State, South Carolina, and Baylor..... there's 5 teams already with potentially a better looking 2020-2021 team heading into the season. Not to say Oregon can't threaten to put a dent to them though once it's all said and done though.


.....

How do you figure Louisville looks better than Oregon? Sabally looks like the clear #1 draft pick on 2021 and Graves has other good players on the roster who will be experienced. Oregon is legit and well coached.

Mississippi State and SC need to prove a lot this year to be included in that grouping IMO. Both squads look good on paper but their incoming players will have to mesh, develop, and be as good as advertised.

 

[bballnut90]

Will UT be better than Mizzou, Georgia and Arkansas? I know your a LV fan but I want your opinion.

No idea. Could be a top 10 team if Horston is the real deal and players do a 180 with better coaching. If players dont improve, it could be another tough year in Knoxville. The talent is there, but can KJH get the results? Time will tell.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Right...but you and another SC fan were discrediting a statement I made that was in fact true, so I'm holding you accountable for that and backing up my point.

And like I said, I dont think Mississippi State is necessarily going to be better or worse than SC this upcoming year. Too many unknowns and variables to predict that IMO. SC looks better on paper with Harris and MHH back, but MSU was the better team this year so I'm not sure the gap has closed to the point that SC surpasses MSU. Time will tell. Any of Kentucky, A&M, MSU, UT, and SC are all potential SEC title contenders depending on how the season shakes out. The conference feels much more up in the air compared to previous seasons due to players graduating and new faces coming in.

Well you were insinuating that I had said that South Carolina was the favorite in the SEC last year and I'm pretty sure I never said that.

I was asking who had said that.

In general, I'm somewhat confused why Vic going to the Elite 8 with McCowans, Howard, and a host of seniors, is better than Staley going to the Elite 8 with Wilson after losing Davis, Gray, Coates and Cuevas-Moore (injury). That's only returning 2 of your top 6.

National Titles Staley 1 Vic 0
Final Fours Staley 2 Vic 2
Elite Eights Staley 3 Vic 3
Sweet 16s Staley 7 Vic 4

SEC Titles Staley 4 Vic 2
SECT Titles Staley 4 Vic 1

Head to Head Staley 11 Vic 3 (Vic has won 3/4, all with the more talented team)

I get that you think Vic hung the moon because he's your dude. He's good. But he's quite literally done nothing that Staley hasn't.

South Carolina was equally bad if not worse than Miss State when Staley took over.

South Carolina has played world class schedules every year Staley has been able to do it and with the exception of UConn has competed with them all. I guess that is the one thing Vic has done. Beat UConn post Stewie at the buzzer that one time. I do appreciate that one since it made our title a foregone conclusion.

I think it's odd that you think that Miss State is going to be stacked in the future, I guess based on players you have never seen on the floor, but South Carolina's future is uncertain because the players coming in are unproven. Cool. I agree. South Carolina's ceiling is unknown for the future. It may or may not reach a championship level. Not sure why you think Miss State is a sure thing in comparison, but whatever.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

No idea. Could be a top 10 team if Horston is the real deal and players do a 180 with better coaching. If players dont improve, it could be another tough year in Knoxville. The talent is there, but can KJH get the results? Time will tell.

Horston is a favorite of mine, but not sure she can immediately replace Westbrook. Then again, not sure she needs to.

Tennessee would make a major improvement if they just had a little more cohesion and improvement from returners.

I think I'd guess they will be a bit better and I certainly think that puts them at or above Georgia, Missouri, Arkansas.

Wish this thread would be merged with the SEC discussion thread.

 

[bballnut90]

Well you were insinuating that I had said that South Carolina was the favorite in the SEC last year and I'm pretty sure I never said that.

I was asking who had said that.

In general, I'm somewhat confused why Vic going to the Elite 8 with McCowans, Howard, and a host of seniors, is better than Staley going to the Elite 8 with Wilson after losing Davis, Gray, Coates and Cuevas-Moore (injury). That's only returning 2 of your top 6.

National Titles Staley 1 Vic 0
Final Fours Staley 2 Vic 2
Elite Eights Staley 3 Vic 3
Sweet 16s Staley 7 Vic 4

SEC Titles Staley 4 Vic 2
SECT Titles Staley 4 Vic 1

Head to Head Staley 11 Vic 3 (Vic has won 3/4, all with the more talented team)

I get that you think Vic hung the moon because he's your dude. He's good. But he's quite literally done nothing that Staley hasn't.

South Carolina was equally bad if not worse than Miss State when Staley took over.

South Carolina has played world class schedules every year Staley has been able to do it and with the exception of UConn has competed with them all. I guess that is the one thing Vic has done. Beat UConn post Stewie at the buzzer that one time. I do appreciate that one since it made our title a foregone conclusion.

I think it's odd that you think that Miss State is going to be stacked in the future, I guess based on players you have never seen on the floor, but South Carolina's future is uncertain because the players coming in are unproven. Cool. I agree. South Carolina's ceiling is unknown for the future. It may or may not reach a championship level. Not sure why you think Miss State is a sure thing in comparison, but whatever.

I never insinuated that you said that, just that Gamecock fans had and then provided evidence to back it up.

And good job cherry picking information to back up your case regarding 2019 MSU vs 2018 SC. MSU only returned 1 of their top 5 (which statistically is fewer than 2 of your top 6), finished 33-3, was a #1 seed, dominated the SEC and came within 4 points of a Final Four playing in a hostile road environment. South Carolina finished 29-7, 2nd in SEC play, won the SEC tourney and lost in a hostile road environment by 29 in the Elite 8. Not all Elite 8 finishes are created equal.

You also forgot to mention Staley has coached 4 years longer at SC than Vic has at MSU, and Vic has 2 title game appearances to Staley's 1.

And when did I ever say Mississippi State was going to be stacked but SC unproven? In the post you directly replied to, I stated that the entire SEC is an unknown entity at this point due to top teams looking extremely different. In another post I said Mississippi State AND South Carolina project well headed into 20-21. Please dont put words in my mouth or at least find the quote where I've said this and call me out.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

And good job cherry picking information to back up your case regarding 2019 MSU vs 2018 SC. MSU only returned 1 of their top 5 (which statistically is fewer than 2 of your top 6), finished 33-3, was a #1 seed, dominated the SEC and came within 4 points of a Final Four playing in a hostile road environment. South Carolina finished 29-7, 2nd in SEC play, won the SEC tourney and lost in a hostile road environment by 29 in the Elite 8. Not all Elite 8 finishes are created equal.

You also forgot to mention Staley has coached 4 years longer at SC than Vic has at MSU, and Vic has 2 title game appearances to Staley's 1.

And when did I ever say Mississippi State was going to be stacked but SC unproven? In the post you directly replied to, I stated that the entire SEC is an unknown entity at this point due to top teams looking extremely different. In another post I said Mississippi State AND South Carolina project well headed into 20-21. Please dont put words in my mouth or at least find the quote where I've said this and call me out.

You are right. It was SimpleDawg that made that point. My apologies.

As we all know, the most important stats in judging coaches is margin of defeat in comparative Elite 8 games, and Championship Game .... appearances. : )

I personally think it's pretty clear that 2019 Miss State had a more talented squad than 2018 South Carolina even with A'ja Wilson being the far superior centerpiece. South Carolina was also without Wilson in two of the 2018 losses, but anyways.

this is some pretty trifling stuff we're arguing about at this point.

 

[eebmg]

I wish we could argue about our conference.

 

[j66kicker]

I think Graves still needs to load his roster up a little. This year he had 9 players. Next few years he'll have more, and already has a couple of high recruits but still..,. I think depth was an issue last year and should be addressed in this offseason. While Sabally will be a POY candidate, every other top 5 team will have one and they might not be able to overcome a more loaded team. Will they be a Final Four threat? Sure, but I don't think they'll be ranked in the preseason top 5. I'm just speaking in that context. When you have Louisville, UConn, Mississippi State, South Carolina, and Baylor..... there's 5 teams already with potentially a better looking 2020-2021 team heading into the season. Not to say Oregon can't threaten to put a dent to them though once it's all said and done though.


.....

Adding Westbrook and Hailey Van Lith would go a long way toward this. Not unlikely...

 

[SimpleDawg]

You are right. It was SimpleDawg that made that point. My apologies.

As we all know, the most important stats in judging coaches is margin of defeat in comparative Elite 8 games, and Championship Game .... appearances. : )

I personally think it's pretty clear that 2019 Miss State had a more talented squad than 2018 South Carolina even with A'ja Wilson being the far superior centerpiece. South Carolina was also without Wilson in two of the 2018 losses, but anyways.

this is some pretty trifling stuff we're arguing about at this point.

What point are you talking about?

Love how this thread got really inflated fast.

I'm glad this conference is such a worthy topic of debate, but let's wait till the annual Mississippi State/South Carolina game next year. Then we can all do this...

 

[MSUFan2003]

I've been critical of Vic, but I actually don't think he is the old school defensive coach I thought he was. He's said some things to make me change my mind. He's said that at the end of the day, the team with the most points wins and that he recruits players for their offensive skill set. When we played UCLA in 2018, he said we needed to try to figure out how to score more than them because we probably couldn't stop them. So I think he gets it and has evolved. He's not an offensive guru, but he understands that we have to get points.

South Carolina will be fine after the transfers. HH is staying right? I think that's the right decision for her. She was my favorite non-State player last year.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

I wish we could argue about our conference.

You really belong in the ACC.

 

[SCGamecock]

You really belong in the ACC.

Yep. They make more since than Notre Dame does being in the ACC.

 

[CBus13]

Not to take us "off-topic" and back to...the original topic, but when do classes end for USC?

I'd imagine Williams is waiting for those to be over because she starts exploring schools...OR did I miss something in these posts.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Exams should be over by next week; classes are already over.

 

[SCGamecock]

Not to take us "off-topic" and back to...the original topic, but when do classes end for USC?

I'd imagine Williams is waiting for those to be over because she starts exploring schools...OR did I miss something in these posts.

No, please do. Actually, thank you for redirecting this thread.