Some Guy: UConn close to signing Hurley

[CL82]

Yep. I can't see KO all of sudden ten toes in on anything so quickly. He'll get to this when he gets this.

I see it being a function of one part due diligence and one part union SOP. The real question is it settled prior to going to Suzie. I put that at 60/40 against it happening.

 

[the Q]

And yet, they will likely go undefeated with another title. They already blew out the team they play next...at their home.
So even if that's all true...it's like searching for the negative in a sea of positives.

The problem is who is left standing on the other side of the bracket.

 

[HuskyHawk]

You have no idea if he is ‘guilty’ - you don’t even know what they have accused him of.

But other than that - spot on!

He's guilty of being a lousy basketball coach. For me, that's reason enough not to pay him to not do his job, even if his contract says otherwise.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The problem is who is left standing on the other side of the bracket.

Worried about Miss State's size?

 

[Stainmaster]

He's guilty of being a lousy basketball coach. For me, that's reason enough not to pay him to not do his job, even if his contract says otherwise.

Non-lawyer here...I don’t think that definition of “cause” holds up in court.

 

[the Q]

Worried about Miss State's size?

That was the biggest factor last year.

Size and Miss St just flat out played harder. With urgency. Compare that game to the USF game in the AAC championship game, the speed and effort was just not even close to the same. The Final Four was like they were moving in slow motion. KLS moved faster when she needed the puke bucket against Maryland than in that MSU game.

UConn played like they were half asleep, except for my girl Gabby. She was $$$. Heroic performance.

 

[8893]

IMO, they won't settle before this meeting.

Yeah that was a hope on my part, not a prediction. I have no info on how far along they are, but take it is as somewhat positive that they have agreed to extend the hearing. Could be nothing more than a scheduling conflict but at least it gives them more opportunity to resolve it. I think there is good reason for the school to want to resolve before the hearing but I don’t know how much they’re willing to pay for that or how flexible Ollie is willing to be yet.

 

[whaler11]

He's guilty of being a lousy basketball coach. For me, that's reason enough not to pay him to not do his job, even if his contract says otherwise.

I guess take it up with the law.

Perhaps if she and Warde hadn’t written kickers in for themselves on his first deal, I’d be more open to this line of thinking.

I know it’s hard to remember so long ago but it was part of the reason they had to negotiate the deal they are trying to get out of.

If you don’t think the way it went down isn’t offensive that’s fine - most people probably don’t care. I find her past actions unethical and a clear conflict of interest. That she botched the contract so badly is a nice cherry on the sundae.

 

[CL82]

And yet, they will likely go undefeated with another title. They already blew out the team they play next...at their home.
So even if that's all true...it's like searching for the negative in a sea of positives.

If you've been watching them play, you can see there are reasons to be a least a little concerned. Their offense has been down. That's one of the things will be an interesting story within the game tonight.

IMHO this year's team is flawed in the same way last year's team was insufficient depth and the lack of a physical front court presence. Azura helps with that, especially with her considerable reach, but she may struggle against McCowan(?) the Miss St. center. Miss State has the tools to beat UConn. I don't think that game is a sure thing for us. I also expect Staley to have her kids better prepared tonight than she did earlier in the year.

Hey look, woman's basketball has made its way to the Some Guy thread. We may catch Diallo yet.

 

[CL82]

I know it’s hard to remember so long ago but it was part of the reason they had to negotiate the deal they are trying to get out of.

Are they trying to get out of it? It sure seems like they are trying to enforce its terms. A better argument is that KO is trying to get out it.

Once a party agrees that failing to adhere to NCAA rules is a reason for discharge for cause, they really can't later say "well we didn't mean it."

 

[Huskybass]

Bad casual fan. This was decided already.

To be a true fan one has to be in lockstep with whatever the groupthink is today.

Was everyone who was a year and a half late on Ollie not a fan? Three years late on Diaco - not a fan?

I wonder if the AD will send back the 5 figures I’ve spent on tickets this decade now that I’ve been deemed unworthy of the word ‘fan’.

I don’t support the kind of person that would contractually tie their fortunes to a person and then only a couple of years later try to scapegoat them because things didn’t go as well as planned.

If you don’t care because you want the outcome you want - that’s fair and fine. I don’t root for dirtbags. I have ethical standards for those that are paid by the citizens to work for the state. Sorry, not sorry.

You do realize that there is an ongoing NCAA investigation and that it is somewhat likely that something which constitutes "cause" under the terms of the contract exists? To rule that out would be an obtuse and defiant position at this point.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Non-lawyer here...I don’t think that definition of “cause” holds up in court.

Actual lawyer here, and probably not. Although there is something like it in the union contract, around a general failure to adequately perform the duties of the job. But all they need is any other technical instance of cause. I'd be surprised if they took this step without feeling like they had one. It doesn't need to be "material", because the contract isn't written that way.

Because I think he fully deserved to be fired, I have no concerns with UConn taking advantage of the contract in any way they need to, to avoid paying Ollie. After all, he's doing the same. He has a contract that is wildly favorable to him in that UConn can't fire him for being bad at his job, but which has a fairly broad set of circumstances that can constitute cause. That's the deal the sides struck.

 

[CL82]

I think there is good reason for the school to want to resolve before the hearing but I don’t know how much they’re willing to pay for that or how flexible Ollie is willing to be yet.

Why, other than wanting to be done?

FWIW, there appears to a pattern of the union delaying this meeting. It may be SOP (because delay normally equals extension of period of "suspension with pay"); it may be that they need to gather facts; it may be that this out of their comfort zone; or yeah, it could be scheduling.

 

[whaler11]

You do realize that there is an ongoing NCAA investigation and that it is somewhat likely that something which constitutes "cause" under the terms of the contract exists? To rule that out would be an obtuse and defiant position at this point.

We shall see.

If you are so confident you have Ollie on cause... why aren’t you demanding he get ZERO?

If there are serious violations I don’t want to see him get a penny.

Funny that whatever it is didn’t seem to be a topic during the Hurley saga. Did it? The looming sanctions for major violations didn’t scare him off.

 

[the Q]

Actual lawyer here, and probably not. Although there is something like it in the union contract, around a general failure to adequately perform the duties of the job. But all they need is any other technical instance of cause. I'd be surprised if they took this step without feeling like they had one. It doesn't need to be "material", because the contract isn't written that way.

Because I think he fully deserved to be fired, I have no concerns with UConn taking advantage of the contract in any way they need to, to avoid paying Ollie. After all, he's doing the same. He has a contract that is wildly favorable to him in that UConn can't fire him for being bad at his job, but which has a fairly broad set of circumstances that can constitute cause. That's the deal the sides struck.

In another thread someone posted a link to the actual deal.

there seems to be some serious holes in the for cause that the university could use. NCAA investigation and violatIon seems like a good one, but obviously the facts need to come out.

 

[HuskyHawk]

In another thread someone posted a link to the actual deal.

there seems to be some serious holes in the for cause that the university could use. NCAA investigation and violatIon seems like a good one, but obviously the facts need to come out.

Yes, I read it. And the union contract, which is much broader by the way. Much. His contract essentially says it includes everything that is cause in the Union contract, plus two other things (including NCAA and university rules compliance). But look at the Union contract. I'd be surprised if the NCAA violations is the only card UConn has here.

 

[CL82]

We shall see.

If you are so confident you have Ollie on cause... why aren’t you demanding he get ZERO?

If there are serious violations I don’t want to see him get a penny.

Funny that whatever it is didn’t seem to be a topic during the Hurley saga. Did it? The looming sanctions for major violations didn’t scare him off.

"Major" violations is something you've inserted in this discussion. It isn't necessary for just cause under the contract.

 

[August_West]

There’s a reason it’s rainbows and unicorns there. The majority of fans are over 60 (well over 60 - see the census) and they basically see the players as surrogate granddaughters. They may not know a lot about basketball and they don’t know a zone from a hand check but they love “our girls”. Many people on the women’s board are ailing physically, many are bedridden or hospitalized, and they find watching the women’s team to be fun and joyful. Until they get to the Boneyard and read how badly the team played in its 30 point road win, that is.

There’s an older gentlemen who emails me when he goes back into the hospital, which has been more recent lately. He’s lonely and scared but watching the women’s team makes him happy for a while. He was very upset in a recent email, asking why people are so hard on the players. I get that a lot when lurkers talk to me at games, too. They’re afraid to post because some posters really need to let these lurkers know they’re idiots or that they don’t know anything about the game. Most of the know it alls have drifted over from the men’s board, including you and @Tenspro2002 , and that seems to have increased this season. Most roll their eyes at the women’s board culture, I’m aware, but they manage to post just fine without scaring some 70 year old back into lurking. Some just carry on like they’re on the men’s board.

That's an excellent post Nan. And really a testament to you for fostering an environment that people can actually find solace in from troubled times on the internet in 2018. Thats pretty rare in the immediate present. Kudos. It's not my thing (obviously) but I respect the hell out of it in all seriousness which is why I never bring my shtick over there. My parents are 75 and HUGE womens fans (mens fans too) and when I think of the womens board i think of how pissed I would be if people gave my parents a hard time on a message board when trying to talk about one of their passions. They know nothing of trolling or the combativeness of messageboards/social media in 2018. Nor should they. Keep doing what you are doing.

The mens board and cesspool on the other hand are rife with idiots.

 

[Huskybass]

We shall see.

If you are so confident you have Ollie on cause... why aren’t you demanding he get ZERO?

If there are serious violations I don’t want to see him get a penny.

Funny that whatever it is didn’t seem to be a topic during the Hurley saga. Did it? The looming sanctions for major violations didn’t scare him off.

I said it is somewhat likely that "cause" exists under the terms of the contract and that to completely dismiss that possibility isn't proper at this point. There simply isn't enough information out there to make that determination right now

And I believe a compromise settlement will happen because protracted disputes and/or litigation can be distracting, time consuming and very expensive.

 

[whaler11]

I said it is somewhat likely that "cause" exists under the terms of the contract and that to completely dismiss that possibility isn't proper at this point. There simply isn't enough information out there to make that determination right now

And I believe a compromise settlement will happen because protracted disputes and/or litigation can be distracting, time consuming and very expensive.

If cause exists the goal should be zero.

 

[Huskybass]

If cause exists the goal should be zero.

I managed litigation for decades. The vast majority of cases settle for something resembling the respective strengths of the opposing parties positions. My guess is that this case settles for less than half the full amount and most likely somewhere in the $2M to 3.5M range.

Just my opinion, but since you are a betting man...

 

[JustbrewitMan]

I'm not sure that the name "Hurley" has been mentioned in the past couple pages...

HURLEY
HURLEY
HURLEY

Carry on as you were...

 

[HawkHusky]

Rooting for URI to be stupid and not promote Cox to HC.

URI Recruits...

 

[Paesano]

That was the biggest factor last year.

Size and Miss St just flat out played harder. With urgency. Compare that game to the USF game in the AAC championship game, the speed and effort was just not even close to the same. The Final Four was like they were moving in slow motion. KLS moved faster when she needed the puke bucket against Maryland than in that MSU game.

UConn played like they were half asleep, except for my girl Gabby. She was $$$. Heroic performance.

In theory, this team is better and deeper. Everyone that played last year is a year stronger and better and we trade Saniya for Azura. We also added the #1 player out of high school. If Walker suddenly "gets it", everyone else is done. If not, we are vulnerable, but not as much as last year. And, of course, you have to hope for no injuries.

My biggest concern with the teams that remain is Notre Dame. For "some reason" they are our kryptonite. Another thing to note is that most of our exits from the tournament came in the semi-final game. Second most was the elite 8 game. We have never lost in the championship game. Odd, no? Well, I think there are two reasons. First, it is tough to prepare for us on short notice. The second reason has something to do with the fact that we almost always get bounced by a team coached by a woman (last year and many years ago against Iowa State are notable exceptions). It is the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. The percentage of this phenomenon is higher than the percentage of women coaching on the women's side. And I will just note that many refs are women. And while people will take that as a conspiracy theory, I will point to human nature and sub-conscious biases. So why does that explain no losses in the championship game? Too many eyes watching. I think the refs are extra aware to make sure they don't let their personal biases affect how they call the game. In the semi-final games we have lost, we have always "played poorly". I will note that, often, the game was also physical and not many calls went our way. A physical game somewhat negates a talent and skill advantage and uneven calls is a just a direct killer. If you are getting hacked and the calls aren't being called, you tend to "play poorly". We are not THAT much better than ND to overcome that, when it occurs.

 

[8893]

Why, other than wanting to be done?

FWIW, there appears to a pattern of the union delaying this meeting. It may be SOP (because delay normally equals extension of period of "suspension with pay"); it may be that they need to gather facts; it may be that this out of their comfort zone; or yeah, it could be scheduling.

I don't know about this particular union's SOP, but I have defended employers in union arbitrations before and continuances were common there, too, but usually there were efforts by the union lawyer and rep to resolve the matter by agreement in the meantime. They weren't always successful, but it was always attempted.

As for why I think there is good reason for the school to want it resolved before the hearing, I believe I read somewhere that the process is such that the school has to delineate and specify its "just cause" reasons for the termination prior to that hearing. I haven't combed the CBA for the exact requirements and timing, but my sense was that the just cause will be essentially locked in by then, and imo that carries its own risks for the school. I know that you and many others here believe the school should throw everything it can at him and leave no possible cause bases unstated, but I think there is a risk to that shotgun approach that could give Ollie's lawyers a lot to shoot at if they want to establish that the school has not acted in good faith. Again, it's impossible without knowing the specifics, but the more attenuated the reasons and the more Ollie is able to establish either that the school knew about the issue(s) and sat on them, or that it tolerated similar or worse conduct from others who were similarly situated, I can think of a few different ways in which that could increase the school's exposure.

I also think there is a very practical benefit to moving on and having the perception that they treated him fairly, so that the process of bringing the "UConn family" of former players back into the fold is accelerated. That can only help restore the brand, which seems to be the overall goal here--and it's a good one.