Some Guy: UConn close to signing Hurley

[Huskybass]

If cause exists the goal should be zero.

I managed litigation for decades. The vast majority of cases settle for something resembling the respective strengths of the opposing parties positions. My guess is that this case settles for less than half the full amount and most likely somewhere in the $2M to 3.5M range.

Just my opinion, but since you are a betting man...

 

[JustbrewitMan]

I'm not sure that the name "Hurley" has been mentioned in the past couple pages...

HURLEY
HURLEY
HURLEY

Carry on as you were...

 

[HawkHusky]

Rooting for URI to be stupid and not promote Cox to HC.

URI Recruits...

 

[Paesano]

That was the biggest factor last year.

Size and Miss St just flat out played harder. With urgency. Compare that game to the USF game in the AAC championship game, the speed and effort was just not even close to the same. The Final Four was like they were moving in slow motion. KLS moved faster when she needed the puke bucket against Maryland than in that MSU game.

UConn played like they were half asleep, except for my girl Gabby. She was $$$. Heroic performance.

In theory, this team is better and deeper. Everyone that played last year is a year stronger and better and we trade Saniya for Azura. We also added the #1 player out of high school. If Walker suddenly "gets it", everyone else is done. If not, we are vulnerable, but not as much as last year. And, of course, you have to hope for no injuries.

My biggest concern with the teams that remain is Notre Dame. For "some reason" they are our kryptonite. Another thing to note is that most of our exits from the tournament came in the semi-final game. Second most was the elite 8 game. We have never lost in the championship game. Odd, no? Well, I think there are two reasons. First, it is tough to prepare for us on short notice. The second reason has something to do with the fact that we almost always get bounced by a team coached by a woman (last year and many years ago against Iowa State are notable exceptions). It is the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. The percentage of this phenomenon is higher than the percentage of women coaching on the women's side. And I will just note that many refs are women. And while people will take that as a conspiracy theory, I will point to human nature and sub-conscious biases. So why does that explain no losses in the championship game? Too many eyes watching. I think the refs are extra aware to make sure they don't let their personal biases affect how they call the game. In the semi-final games we have lost, we have always "played poorly". I will note that, often, the game was also physical and not many calls went our way. A physical game somewhat negates a talent and skill advantage and uneven calls is a just a direct killer. If you are getting hacked and the calls aren't being called, you tend to "play poorly". We are not THAT much better than ND to overcome that, when it occurs.

 

[8893]

Why, other than wanting to be done?

FWIW, there appears to a pattern of the union delaying this meeting. It may be SOP (because delay normally equals extension of period of "suspension with pay"); it may be that they need to gather facts; it may be that this out of their comfort zone; or yeah, it could be scheduling.

I don't know about this particular union's SOP, but I have defended employers in union arbitrations before and continuances were common there, too, but usually there were efforts by the union lawyer and rep to resolve the matter by agreement in the meantime. They weren't always successful, but it was always attempted.

As for why I think there is good reason for the school to want it resolved before the hearing, I believe I read somewhere that the process is such that the school has to delineate and specify its "just cause" reasons for the termination prior to that hearing. I haven't combed the CBA for the exact requirements and timing, but my sense was that the just cause will be essentially locked in by then, and imo that carries its own risks for the school. I know that you and many others here believe the school should throw everything it can at him and leave no possible cause bases unstated, but I think there is a risk to that shotgun approach that could give Ollie's lawyers a lot to shoot at if they want to establish that the school has not acted in good faith. Again, it's impossible without knowing the specifics, but the more attenuated the reasons and the more Ollie is able to establish either that the school knew about the issue(s) and sat on them, or that it tolerated similar or worse conduct from others who were similarly situated, I can think of a few different ways in which that could increase the school's exposure.

I also think there is a very practical benefit to moving on and having the perception that they treated him fairly, so that the process of bringing the "UConn family" of former players back into the fold is accelerated. That can only help restore the brand, which seems to be the overall goal here--and it's a good one.

 

[JMick]

Whaler is going to throw a fit when we settle and all we get is a number with no information attached to it

 

[Bonehead]

Jacobs Jacobs Jacobs....testing

 

[Guapo]

Jacobs Jacobs Jacobs....testing

Test failed

 

[Paesano]

Whaler is going to throw a fit when we settle and all we get is a number with no information attached to it

What if they settle and don't even give a number? Imagine an "undisclosed amount". Can they do that?

 

[8893]

What if they settle and don't even give a number? Imagine an "undisclosed amount". Can they do that?

No. It's a public entity so it is subject to FOIA requests.

 

[huskymedic]

I don't know about this particular union's SOP, but I have defended employers in union arbitrations before and continuances were common there, too, but usually there were efforts by the union lawyer and rep to resolve the matter by agreement in the meantime. They weren't always successful, but it was always attempted.

As for why I think there is good reason for the school to want it resolved before the hearing, I believe I read somewhere that the process is such that the school has to delineate and specify its "just cause" reasons for the termination prior to that hearing. I haven't combed the CBA for the exact requirements and timing, but my sense was that the just cause will be essentially locked in by then, and imo that carries its own risks for the school. I know that you and many others here believe the school should throw everything it can at him and leave no possible cause bases unstated, but I think there is a risk to that shotgun approach that could give Ollie's lawyers a lot to shoot at if they want to establish that the school has not acted in good faith. Again, it's impossible without knowing the specifics, but the more attenuated the reasons and the more Ollie is able to establish either that the school knew about the issue(s) and sat on them, or that it tolerated similar or worse conduct from others who were similarly situated, I can think of a few different ways in which that could increase the school's exposure.

In regards to “timing” of meetings - Ollie was whacked/school initiated disciplinary procedures on March 10th. Article 37 of CBA (sorry for size of screenshot - out of pocket today):

 

[outlaw]

Yawn.

 

[CL82]

I know that you and many others here believe the school should throw everything it can at him and leave no possible cause bases unstated, but I think there is a risk to that shotgun approach that could give Ollie's lawyers a lot to shoot at if they want to establish that the school has not acted in good faith.

I'm not really a shotgun approach kind of guy. More of a "enough is as good as a feast" kind of guy

I also think there is a very practical benefit to moving on and having the perception that they treated him fairly, so that the process of bringing the "UConn family" of former players back into the fold is accelerated. That can only help restore the brand, which seems to be the overall goal here--and it's a good one.

Agree wholeheartedly. This answers Whaler's question, "if you think Ollie will lose, why settle?" Well that, litigation risk and efficiency.

 

[Bonehead]

Test failed

Thought they were Autocorrecting Jacobs to Some Guy...guess not.

 

[Huskybass]

In regards to “timing” of meetings - Ollie was whacked/school initiated disciplinary procedures on March 10th. Article 37 of CBA (sorry for size of screenshot - out of pocket today):


View attachment 30107

Cause is defined so broadly that I just cant see the University losing if a compromise settlement isnt reached. That said, I truly believe that a compromise settlement will be reached to avoid the time, energy, disruption and cost of litigation or alternative dispute resolution .

 

[intlzncster]

You are the definition of mad on the internet.

You are misreading. This is whaler at his happiest. Some people play FPS, whaler boneyards.

 

[intlzncster]

You aren’t going to let it go, huh?

There’s a reason it’s rainbows and unicorns there. The majority of fans are over 60 (well over 60 - see the census) and they basically see the players as surrogate granddaughters. They may not know a lot about basketball and they don’t know a zone from a hand check but they love “our girls”. Many people on the women’s board are ailing physically, many are bedridden or hospitalized, and they find watching the women’s team to be fun and joyful. Until they get to the Boneyard and read how badly the team played in its 30 point road win, that is.

There’s an older gentlemen who emails me when he goes back into the hospital, which has been more recent lately. He’s lonely and scared but watching the women’s team makes him happy for a while. He was very upset in a recent email, asking why people are so hard on the players. I get that a lot when lurkers talk to me at games, too. They’re afraid to post because some posters really need to let these lurkers know they’re idiots or that they don’t know anything about the game. Most of the know it alls have drifted over from the men’s board, including you and @Tenspro2002 , and that seems to have increased this season. Most roll their eyes at the women’s board culture, I’m aware, but they manage to post just fine without scaring some 70 year old back into lurking. Some just carry on like they’re on the men’s board.

The men’s board is a chat room to discuss basketball; the women’s board has a large community of people hanging out with others like them. You may have noticed threads where these guys talk about seeing Red Auerbach play or their WWII, Korean, or Vietnam Nam war time memories. These guys want the community and friendships, not a hardcore analysis of why Stevens’ defense is bad. They don’t wail and moan if UConn doesn’t cover the point spread (and wasn’t that a fun thread?) and they don’t need perfection.

Sure, there are 30-40 or so guys that want to just talk basketball but it’s a tiny minority of the board. You guys that want to bring the men’s board culture into the women’s board - it isn’t going to work. You’re always going to get pushback and I’m always going to protect my frail constituency. I know I’ll get the mocking and blah blah blah but, whatever. You wanted an answer and now you’ve got one.

We've got a lot of relatively new people on here that could use this info. Not sure how to propagate it, but it would be good if possible. tens and paes are relatively intractable in their opinions c'est la vie

NB: one thing I will argue to the grave over there is that DT is the best UCONN women basketball player ever. Full stop.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm not really a shotgun approach kind of guy. More of a "enough is as good as a feast" kind of guy

Agree wholeheartedly. This answers Whaler's question, "if you think Ollie will lose, why settle?" Well that, litigation risk and efficiency.

Tagging @8893 as well. Shotgun may be too broad a concept. What I am suggesting is that they can raise NCAA violations (if there are any) as cause under his contract. In addition, I think it is possible (but have no evidence) that they could raise cause violations under subparts, i, iv and v under the union contract (reproduced above). Whether they will, I have no idea. But It's pretty clear that they've been planning to fire him and were waiting for the season to end before they did. I don't think it hurts their case, and it suggests to me that they put some thought into building the case.

 

[intlzncster]

The mens board and cesspool on the other hand are rife with idiots.

If they weren't, what the hell would you do with yourself?

 

[Huskybass]

We've got a lot of relatively new people on here that could use this info. Not sure how to propagate it, but it would be good if possible. tens and paes are relatively intractable in their opinions c'est la vie

They are two realistic guys who call it the way they see it. I much prefer that to the people on the Men's board who post things that have no basis in reality. For example, this weekend some guy posted that he expected KO to challenge for a National Championship if he had returned next season as head coach. We all know that wasn't going to happen following 2 straight losing seasons with no postseason. It's preposterous things like that which cause guys like Tenspro and Paesano to respond strongly.

 

[intlzncster]

My biggest concern with the teams that remain is Notre Dame. For "some reason" they are our kryptonite. .

It might feel that way, but UCONN has won the last 7 matchups.

EOD, UCONN is definitely the best team in the country, if they indeed don't win it, it will be a major disappointment.

 

[intlzncster]

They are two realistic guys who call it the way they see it.

Realistic is a word that is often used as cover for the term 'Pessimistic'. Tens and Paes, when it comes to UCONN basketball at least, come from that particular bias in their takes.

I much prefer that to the people on the Men's board who post things that have no basis in reality. For example, this weekend some guy posted that he expected KO to challenge for a National Championship if he had returned next season as head coach.

Yeah, but that guy is definitely an outlier. There's plenty of 'optimistic' posters who called him out for it. I'm a middle of the road sort, and I came down hard on that one.

 

[80shusky]

Does anyone have a good handle on how Hurley has used his bigs offensively as a coach? As in, are they involved in the offense in a more coherent way than we have seen the last couple of years?

 

[Storrs South]

Does anyone have a good handle on how Hurley has used his bigs offensively as a coach? As in, are they involved in the offense in a more coherent way than we have seen the last couple of years?

I did not watch enough URI basketball to elaborate on what they did with their bigs but consider this: the top 3 scorers on URI this year were all guards Terrell (6'3"), Matthews (6'5"), and Dowtin (6'3"). Berry (6'8") led the bigs in scoring (4th overall on team) at 8.9 PPG.

The last time the top 3 scorers for UConn were all guards was 2011-2012 (Lamb, Napier, Boatright).

However, last year Hassan Martin (6'7") was URI's second leading scorer so it might have just been a one year outlier for URI and shows that Hurley does have a history of leveraging bigs on the offensive end of the floor.

 

[intlzncster]

Does anyone have a good handle on how Hurley has used his bigs offensively as a coach? As in, are they involved in the offense in a more coherent way than we have seen the last couple of years?

Yes, they all get touches, but they are far from traditional bigs. He just didn't get the monsters we've been seeing in the tournment. It seemed almost Nova-esque at times (though much less so due to lack of similar skills/talent). He's very much a guard centric guy.

I'm hoping, and I think, he tailors his team to his personnel.

 

[tcf15]

 

[intlzncster]

It's crazy to think about it, but if you step back, they effectively have NO basketball program at this current time.

They have no staff.
They have no players.
They have no recruits.

No presence anywhere whatsoever. They need to get their act together pronto.

 

[tzznandrew]

Yes, they all get touches, but they are far from traditional bigs. He just didn't get the monsters we've been seeing in the tournment. It seemed almost Nova-esque at times (though much less so due to lack of similar skills/talent). He's very much a guard centric guy.

I'm hoping, and I think, he tailors his team to his personnel.

Kuran Iverson scored some last year, and he was 6'10". He hasn't gotten a lot of big players. Midmajors hardly do.

 

[tzznandrew]

It's crazy to think about it, but if you step back, they effectively have NO basketball program at this current time.

They have no staff.
They have no players.
They have no recruits.

No presence anywhere whatsoever. They need to get their act together pronto.

Any coach coming in has to build a staff, recruit 9 players--and it's not really like you can just re-recruit the old players since they were 0-18--and do so with only two official visits.

It's going to be a whole team of Onuarah's next year.

 

[intlzncster]

Kuran Iverson scored some last year, and he was 6'10". He hasn't gotten a lot of big players. Midmajors hardly do.

Bonus: our current personnel matchups up more to his previous personnel.