Some Guy: UConn close to signing Hurley

[whaler11]

That's a cute narrative. Unfortunately Ollie shouldn't be rewarded for not doing his job. Both sides are at fault. They should meet in the middle. If you are hoping for Ollie to get his full buyout you are clueless and not a fan of the program.

Bad casual fan. This was decided already.

To be a true fan one has to be in lockstep with whatever the groupthink is today.

Was everyone who was a year and a half late on Ollie not a fan? Three years late on Diaco - not a fan?

I wonder if the AD will send back the 5 figures I’ve spent on tickets this decade now that I’ve been deemed unworthy of the word ‘fan’.

I don’t support the kind of person that would contractually tie their fortunes to a person and then only a couple of years later try to scapegoat them because things didn’t go as well as planned.

If you don’t care because you want the outcome you want - that’s fair and fine. I don’t root for dirtbags. I have ethical standards for those that are paid by the citizens to work for the state. Sorry, not sorry.

 

[Paesano]

You aren’t going to let it go, huh?

There’s a reason it’s rainbows and unicorns there. The majority of fans are over 60 (well over 60 - see the census) and they basically see the players as surrogate granddaughters. They may not know a lot about basketball and they don’t know a zone from a hand check but they love “our girls”. Many people on the women’s board are ailing physically, many are bedridden or hospitalized, and they find watching the women’s team to be fun and joyful. Until they get to the Boneyard and read how badly the team played in its 30 point road win, that is.

There’s an older gentlemen who emails me when he goes back into the hospital, which has been more recent lately. He’s lonely and scared but watching the women’s team makes him happy for a while. He was very upset in a recent email, asking why people are so hard on the players. I get that a lot when lurkers talk to me at games, too. They’re afraid to post because some posters really need to let these lurkers know they’re idiots or that they don’t know anything about the game. Most of the know it alls have drifted over from the men’s board, including you and @Tenspro2002 , and that seems to have increased this season. Most roll their eyes at the women’s board culture, I’m aware, but they manage to post just fine without scaring some 70 year old back into lurking. Some just carry on like they’re on the men’s board.

The men’s board is a chat room to discuss basketball; the women’s board has a large community of people hanging out with others like them. You may have noticed threads where these guys talk about seeing Red Auerbach play or their WWII, Korean, or Vietnam Nam war time memories. These guys want the community and friendships, not a hardcore analysis of why Stevens’ defense is bad. They don’t wail and moan if UConn doesn’t cover the point spread (and wasn’t that a fun thread?) and they don’t need perfection.

Sure, there are 30-40 or so guys that want to just talk basketball but it’s a tiny minority of the board. You guys that want to bring the men’s board culture into the women’s board - it isn’t going to work. You’re always going to get pushback and I’m always going to protect my frail constituency. I know I’ll get the mocking and blah blah blah but, whatever. You wanted an answer and now you’ve got one.

Well thanks! I actually appreciate the response. Now, while I fully get what you are saying, and I can appreciate what you are trying to achieve, I have to say that it goes beyond just keeping a positive board about the team and our coaches. I, for one, have never been critical of the girls or Geno. Actually, I think he is a genius and I love the kids he gets for us. What I have been critical of is fans of opposing teams posting/gloating about their recruits/team/coach/etc because I don't see why they feel compelled to do that on a UConn board and especially when they are posting thinly veiled insults or criticisms of our players and coach. I really don't get why that is allowed. I also have never understood why people insist on posting about transferred players as if it makes them a super fan for continuing to support them. They are not part of this program any more so let them go. But, maybe it is the old folks just trying to be a grandparent again and, if so, I get it. Lastly, I don't get the hypersensitivity of the mods to criticism. If people disagree with what you allow or delete, you ban them. Why?!?!? And don't tell me it is for repeated complaining because that isn't always the case. You can explain your reasoning like you did above without deleting every post and banning every person who is critical. I don't know which mod is the super sensitive one but I have long suspected it is JS trying to be your white knight.

Nan, I don't think it is a tiny minority that want to talk more about the games, good and bad. It might not be a majority but it more than 30 or 40 guys. Maybe it would make sense to have two boards for each team. One that is for the eternal optimists and one for the pessimists. Those in the middle can post on both. Maybe that is a crazy idea but I can tell you that a lot of people love the women's team but find the current forum to be frustrating and boring. I guess it is a shame there isn't a place for everyone but I honestly understand what you are saying about the older crowd. I have seen it myself in parents and grandparents in my family. However, none of them ever came to the boneyard. They watched the games on TV and talked with people in person about the team. I am surprised that many old people frequent the women's board. But I'll take your word for it.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Seriously not being dick.

Thanks for this. Puts things in a lot better context.

Maybe copy and paste this (or some less personal version of this) into a pinned post for the new people.

It's been that way a long time. I used to wade over there, and now I rarely do. In fairness, it takes a certain type of person to take time out of their life to be hyper critical of the UConn women's team. There's no sports team anyone could be a fan of that has been more successful. So I completely understand that it's a lot easier, and more pleasant, to just go along for the ride.

 

[mdkhusky]

Bad casual fan. This was decided already.

To be a true fan one has to be in lockstep with whatever the groupthink is today.

Was everyone who was a year and a half late on Ollie not a fan? Three years late on Diaco - not a fan?

I wonder if the AD will send back the 5 figures I’ve spent on tickets this decade now that I’ve been deemed unworthy of the word ‘fan’.

I don’t support the kind of person that would contractually tie their fortunes to a person and then only a couple of years later try to scapegoat them because things didn’t go as well as planned.

If you don’t care because you want the outcome you want - that’s fair and fine. I don’t root for dirtbags. I have ethical standards for those that are paid by the citizens to work for the state. Sorry, not sorry.

Cry me a river

 

[CL82]

Good news. Here's hoping it's so they can work out a deal beforehand and avoid the hearing altogether.

IMO, they won't settle before this meeting.

 

[the Q]

It's been that way a long time. I used to wade over there, and now I rarely do. In fairness, it takes a certain type of person to take time out of their life to be hyper critical of the UConn women's team. There's no sports team anyone could be a fan of that has been more successful. So I completely understand that it's a lot easier, and more pleasant, to just go along for the ride.

I have been especially hard on the girls for a poor level of effort in last year's FF.

this year it's really just been more about stating the obvious

they're turning the ball over too much, they have little depth, and teams with good size are going to give them trouble.

 

[Paesano]

Bad casual fan. This was decided already.

To be a true fan one has to be in lockstep with whatever the groupthink is today.

Was everyone who was a year and a half late on Ollie not a fan? Three years late on Diaco - not a fan?

I wonder if the AD will send back the 5 figures I’ve spent on tickets this decade now that I’ve been deemed unworthy of the word ‘fan’.

I don’t support the kind of person that would contractually tie their fortunes to a person and then only a couple of years later try to scapegoat them because things didn’t go as well as planned.

If you don’t care because you want the outcome you want - that’s fair and fine. I don’t root for dirtbags. I have ethical standards for those that are paid by the citizens to work for the state. Sorry, not sorry.

Try to get this into your head. No one is scapegoating Ollie. He got what he deserved because he didn't do his job. By definition, you can't scapegoat someone that is actually guilty. He wasn't just not as good as people thought or hoped. He was blatantly negligent. He deserves a full buyout as much as Herbst deserves to completely escape without being held accountable for being stupid.

 

[Dove]

IMO, they won't settle before this meeting.

Yep. I can't see KO all of sudden ten toes in on anything so quickly. He'll get to this when he gets this.

 

[whaler11]

Try to get this into your head. No one is scapegoating Ollie. He got what he deserved because he didn't do his job. By definition, you can't scapegoat someone that is actually guilty. He wasn't just not as good as people thought or hoped. He was blatantly negligent. He deserves a full buyout as much as Herbst deserves to completely escape without being held accountable for being stupid.

You have no idea if he is ‘guilty’ - you don’t even know what they have accused him of.

But other than that - spot on!

 

[HuskyHawk]

I have been especially hard on the girls for a poor level of effort in last year's FF.

this year it's really just been more about stating the obvious

they're turning the ball over too much, they have little depth, and teams with good size are going to give them trouble.

And yet, they will likely go undefeated with another title. They already blew out the team they play next...at their home.
So even if that's all true...it's like searching for the negative in a sea of positives.

 

[CL82]

Yep. I can't see KO all of sudden ten toes in on anything so quickly. He'll get to this when he gets this.

I see it being a function of one part due diligence and one part union SOP. The real question is it settled prior to going to Suzie. I put that at 60/40 against it happening.

 

[the Q]

And yet, they will likely go undefeated with another title. They already blew out the team they play next...at their home.
So even if that's all true...it's like searching for the negative in a sea of positives.

The problem is who is left standing on the other side of the bracket.

 

[HuskyHawk]

You have no idea if he is ‘guilty’ - you don’t even know what they have accused him of.

But other than that - spot on!

He's guilty of being a lousy basketball coach. For me, that's reason enough not to pay him to not do his job, even if his contract says otherwise.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The problem is who is left standing on the other side of the bracket.

Worried about Miss State's size?

 

[Stainmaster]

He's guilty of being a lousy basketball coach. For me, that's reason enough not to pay him to not do his job, even if his contract says otherwise.

Non-lawyer here...I don’t think that definition of “cause” holds up in court.

 

[the Q]

Worried about Miss State's size?

That was the biggest factor last year.

Size and Miss St just flat out played harder. With urgency. Compare that game to the USF game in the AAC championship game, the speed and effort was just not even close to the same. The Final Four was like they were moving in slow motion. KLS moved faster when she needed the puke bucket against Maryland than in that MSU game.

UConn played like they were half asleep, except for my girl Gabby. She was $$$. Heroic performance.

 

[8893]

IMO, they won't settle before this meeting.

Yeah that was a hope on my part, not a prediction. I have no info on how far along they are, but take it is as somewhat positive that they have agreed to extend the hearing. Could be nothing more than a scheduling conflict but at least it gives them more opportunity to resolve it. I think there is good reason for the school to want to resolve before the hearing but I don’t know how much they’re willing to pay for that or how flexible Ollie is willing to be yet.

 

[whaler11]

He's guilty of being a lousy basketball coach. For me, that's reason enough not to pay him to not do his job, even if his contract says otherwise.

I guess take it up with the law.

Perhaps if she and Warde hadn’t written kickers in for themselves on his first deal, I’d be more open to this line of thinking.

I know it’s hard to remember so long ago but it was part of the reason they had to negotiate the deal they are trying to get out of.

If you don’t think the way it went down isn’t offensive that’s fine - most people probably don’t care. I find her past actions unethical and a clear conflict of interest. That she botched the contract so badly is a nice cherry on the sundae.

 

[CL82]

And yet, they will likely go undefeated with another title. They already blew out the team they play next...at their home.
So even if that's all true...it's like searching for the negative in a sea of positives.

If you've been watching them play, you can see there are reasons to be a least a little concerned. Their offense has been down. That's one of the things will be an interesting story within the game tonight.

IMHO this year's team is flawed in the same way last year's team was insufficient depth and the lack of a physical front court presence. Azura helps with that, especially with her considerable reach, but she may struggle against McCowan(?) the Miss St. center. Miss State has the tools to beat UConn. I don't think that game is a sure thing for us. I also expect Staley to have her kids better prepared tonight than she did earlier in the year.

Hey look, woman's basketball has made its way to the Some Guy thread. We may catch Diallo yet.

 

[CL82]

I know it’s hard to remember so long ago but it was part of the reason they had to negotiate the deal they are trying to get out of.

Are they trying to get out of it? It sure seems like they are trying to enforce its terms. A better argument is that KO is trying to get out it.

Once a party agrees that failing to adhere to NCAA rules is a reason for discharge for cause, they really can't later say "well we didn't mean it."

 

[Huskybass]

Bad casual fan. This was decided already.

To be a true fan one has to be in lockstep with whatever the groupthink is today.

Was everyone who was a year and a half late on Ollie not a fan? Three years late on Diaco - not a fan?

I wonder if the AD will send back the 5 figures I’ve spent on tickets this decade now that I’ve been deemed unworthy of the word ‘fan’.

I don’t support the kind of person that would contractually tie their fortunes to a person and then only a couple of years later try to scapegoat them because things didn’t go as well as planned.

If you don’t care because you want the outcome you want - that’s fair and fine. I don’t root for dirtbags. I have ethical standards for those that are paid by the citizens to work for the state. Sorry, not sorry.

You do realize that there is an ongoing NCAA investigation and that it is somewhat likely that something which constitutes "cause" under the terms of the contract exists? To rule that out would be an obtuse and defiant position at this point.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Non-lawyer here...I don’t think that definition of “cause” holds up in court.

Actual lawyer here, and probably not. Although there is something like it in the union contract, around a general failure to adequately perform the duties of the job. But all they need is any other technical instance of cause. I'd be surprised if they took this step without feeling like they had one. It doesn't need to be "material", because the contract isn't written that way.

Because I think he fully deserved to be fired, I have no concerns with UConn taking advantage of the contract in any way they need to, to avoid paying Ollie. After all, he's doing the same. He has a contract that is wildly favorable to him in that UConn can't fire him for being bad at his job, but which has a fairly broad set of circumstances that can constitute cause. That's the deal the sides struck.

 

[CL82]

I think there is good reason for the school to want to resolve before the hearing but I don’t know how much they’re willing to pay for that or how flexible Ollie is willing to be yet.

Why, other than wanting to be done?

FWIW, there appears to a pattern of the union delaying this meeting. It may be SOP (because delay normally equals extension of period of "suspension with pay"); it may be that they need to gather facts; it may be that this out of their comfort zone; or yeah, it could be scheduling.

 

[whaler11]

You do realize that there is an ongoing NCAA investigation and that it is somewhat likely that something which constitutes "cause" under the terms of the contract exists? To rule that out would be an obtuse and defiant position at this point.

We shall see.

If you are so confident you have Ollie on cause... why aren’t you demanding he get ZERO?

If there are serious violations I don’t want to see him get a penny.

Funny that whatever it is didn’t seem to be a topic during the Hurley saga. Did it? The looming sanctions for major violations didn’t scare him off.

 

[the Q]

Actual lawyer here, and probably not. Although there is something like it in the union contract, around a general failure to adequately perform the duties of the job. But all they need is any other technical instance of cause. I'd be surprised if they took this step without feeling like they had one. It doesn't need to be "material", because the contract isn't written that way.

Because I think he fully deserved to be fired, I have no concerns with UConn taking advantage of the contract in any way they need to, to avoid paying Ollie. After all, he's doing the same. He has a contract that is wildly favorable to him in that UConn can't fire him for being bad at his job, but which has a fairly broad set of circumstances that can constitute cause. That's the deal the sides struck.

In another thread someone posted a link to the actual deal.

there seems to be some serious holes in the for cause that the university could use. NCAA investigation and violatIon seems like a good one, but obviously the facts need to come out.

 

[HuskyHawk]

In another thread someone posted a link to the actual deal.

there seems to be some serious holes in the for cause that the university could use. NCAA investigation and violatIon seems like a good one, but obviously the facts need to come out.

Yes, I read it. And the union contract, which is much broader by the way. Much. His contract essentially says it includes everything that is cause in the Union contract, plus two other things (including NCAA and university rules compliance). But look at the Union contract. I'd be surprised if the NCAA violations is the only card UConn has here.

 

[CL82]

We shall see.

If you are so confident you have Ollie on cause... why aren’t you demanding he get ZERO?

If there are serious violations I don’t want to see him get a penny.

Funny that whatever it is didn’t seem to be a topic during the Hurley saga. Did it? The looming sanctions for major violations didn’t scare him off.

"Major" violations is something you've inserted in this discussion. It isn't necessary for just cause under the contract.

 

[August_West]

There’s a reason it’s rainbows and unicorns there. The majority of fans are over 60 (well over 60 - see the census) and they basically see the players as surrogate granddaughters. They may not know a lot about basketball and they don’t know a zone from a hand check but they love “our girls”. Many people on the women’s board are ailing physically, many are bedridden or hospitalized, and they find watching the women’s team to be fun and joyful. Until they get to the Boneyard and read how badly the team played in its 30 point road win, that is.

There’s an older gentlemen who emails me when he goes back into the hospital, which has been more recent lately. He’s lonely and scared but watching the women’s team makes him happy for a while. He was very upset in a recent email, asking why people are so hard on the players. I get that a lot when lurkers talk to me at games, too. They’re afraid to post because some posters really need to let these lurkers know they’re idiots or that they don’t know anything about the game. Most of the know it alls have drifted over from the men’s board, including you and @Tenspro2002 , and that seems to have increased this season. Most roll their eyes at the women’s board culture, I’m aware, but they manage to post just fine without scaring some 70 year old back into lurking. Some just carry on like they’re on the men’s board.

That's an excellent post Nan. And really a testament to you for fostering an environment that people can actually find solace in from troubled times on the internet in 2018. Thats pretty rare in the immediate present. Kudos. It's not my thing (obviously) but I respect the hell out of it in all seriousness which is why I never bring my shtick over there. My parents are 75 and HUGE womens fans (mens fans too) and when I think of the womens board i think of how pissed I would be if people gave my parents a hard time on a message board when trying to talk about one of their passions. They know nothing of trolling or the combativeness of messageboards/social media in 2018. Nor should they. Keep doing what you are doing.

The mens board and cesspool on the other hand are rife with idiots.

 

[Huskybass]

We shall see.

If you are so confident you have Ollie on cause... why aren’t you demanding he get ZERO?

If there are serious violations I don’t want to see him get a penny.

Funny that whatever it is didn’t seem to be a topic during the Hurley saga. Did it? The looming sanctions for major violations didn’t scare him off.

I said it is somewhat likely that "cause" exists under the terms of the contract and that to completely dismiss that possibility isn't proper at this point. There simply isn't enough information out there to make that determination right now

And I believe a compromise settlement will happen because protracted disputes and/or litigation can be distracting, time consuming and very expensive.

 

[whaler11]

I said it is somewhat likely that "cause" exists under the terms of the contract and that to completely dismiss that possibility isn't proper at this point. There simply isn't enough information out there to make that determination right now

And I believe a compromise settlement will happen because protracted disputes and/or litigation can be distracting, time consuming and very expensive.

If cause exists the goal should be zero.