So the offense doesn't work | Page 3 | The Boneyard

So the offense doesn't work

elmcityboy said:
i don't think that these series illustrate the point you are trying to make... milwaukee's problem last year was that they did not have ENOUGH ball handlers. they were easy to shut down because miami could stop giannis in the paint and the bucks didn't have another player to create open looks.

you are praising a miami team that played significant stretches with andre iguodala at the 5 during the series with the celtics.
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Hard to argue that Bucks were losing the possession battle when they were the best rebounding teams in the NBA. Miami shut the Bucks down with the stretch zone, and then the Bucks finished the job with their stupid offense.
 
Waquoit said:
We missed a lot of bunny's last night. And we read similar from the OP last year, he was wrong then too.
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What was I wrong about? Vital and Gilbert's shot selection in the beginning of the season? I was absolutely right about that.
 
Psolo12 said:
Yeah I’m not sure what on earth he’s talking about. Acting like an X’s and O’s Guru but doesn’t know that we don’t run a 5 out offense.
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What he is talking about is playing 4 out and using the 5 to set ball screens or catch and hand off at the top of the circle (over and over again). That brings all 5 out.

It is lousy offense for a couple of reasons. 1. The screens are never effective. They achieve nothing. 2. The screener isn’t a threat with the ball at that spot and doesn’t “roll”.

We need to keep Whaley or Sanogo down on the blocks and use Martin, Jackson or Polley as that screener. Any of those guys are dangerous above the foul line or could pop out behind a driving guard for a kickback 3. It’s how we ran it last year when Akok was available. It isn’t effective at all right now and it gives a driving guard nobody to pass to inside and kills our offensive rebounding.
 
Psolo12 said:
I’m not a basketball coach nor am I gonna pretend to be one like you clowns. Why would anyone care how I want to run the offense? At least I know it’s not a 5 out offense and can appreciate we dropped 102 the first game and not call our offense “broken”. I don’t feel the need to write up an offensive plan for the boneyard to read about lol
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So your just here for the juvenile name calling. Got it, thanks.
 
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Big East is a man to man league, teams are not going to play zone like UHart and CCSU. Yes you prepare for it to be a wrinkle in a game plan, but with this season of unknowns, teams only have 3-4 days to prep for the opponent at hand. Not sure Hurley has been stressing beating a zone in the limited amount of practice time they’ve had post quarantine....not an excuse, but a thought
 
HuskyHawk said:
What he is talking about is playing 4 out and using the 5 to set ball screens or catch and hand off at the top of the circle (over and over again). That brings all 5 out.

It is lousy offense for a couple of reasons. 1. The screens are never effective. They achieve nothing. 2. The screener isn’t a threat with the ball at that spot and doesn’t “roll”.

We need to keep Whaley or Sanogo down on the blocks and use Martin, Jackson or Polley as that screener. Any of those guys are dangerous above the foul line or could pop out behind a driving guard for a kickback 3. It’s how we ran it last year when Akok was available. It isn’t effective at all right now and it gives a driving guard nobody to pass to inside and kills our offensive rebounding.
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You said it better than I said it.

I would add that it is really hard to screen with a center above the 3 point line when there are 4 out because a defender is usually close enough to the screen to either help or trap on the screen. The problem with everyone around the perimeter is that it actually reduces spaces for the outside players. It is harder to drive and it is harder to shoot 3's.

Seton Hall will start most sets with 4 or 5 out, but they immediately drop a wing in to screen, and often send another cutter baseline to use a backscreen by the 5 around the block. That action is hard to defend, especially when they do it with the Georgian. Either he is going to end up with an open shot, have a driving lane if the defender tries to go over the screen, or have a 1 on 1 against a smaller player if the defense switches. All those outcomes suck if you are the defense.
 
Justin M said:
Big East is a man to man league, teams are not going to play zone like UHart and CCSU. Yes you prepare for it to be a wrinkle in a game plan, but with this season of unknowns, teams only have 3-4 days to prep for the opponent at hand. Not sure Hurley has been stressing beating a zone in the limited amount of practice time they’ve had post quarantine....not an excuse, but a thought
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I haven't seen enough of the BE teams this year to learn how all of them are going to play 4 and 5 out defenses, but I suspect even man-to-man defenses will play a lot like zones. Basically just switch on all screens, and your man-to-man will play a lot like a zone. Honestly, I think this is the best way to defend a 4 or 5 out analytics offense at the college level.

Other than Villanova and Creighton's offenses, most of the Big East offenses I have seen this year and last have a lot more action to the basket with kickouts for their 3's.
 
HooperScooper said:
I'm going to post the same thing I did in a different thread. Because some people need to understand this.

When you have a lot of new and inexperienced, but talented, players on a team it's going to take time to figure out roles and rotations. Usually you use 12 or 13 games before conference play with lots of buy games and a few high major games to work on this and see how things look. We have a bunch of talented new players who've never played with each other before (Sanogo, Jackson, Cole, Martin). And other guys are relatively inexperienced (Bouknight and Gaffney are still just sophomores). Those players were most of the minutes in the first 2 games.

Unfortunately with this messed up season they don't have that long before conference play to figure things out. I don't think these things ever get worked out in 2 games except when you have a very experienced team coming back (think 1998-1999 team) who have played extensively with each other. It's going to be a work in progress until at least early January.
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Before the year started someone asked what the biggest concern was for this season and someone said "chemistry" which I agreed with. I think through two games, that concern has proven valid. At this moment we're trying to figure out what roles are going to be for about 10 guys and that doesn't come in two games against low talent in-state...I won't even call them rivals. Opponents. It'll come in time but IMO the next few games (Vandy, NC State and St John's is it?) against better competition will help us guage where we are going as a team this year.
 
UCfor3 said:
We agree here.
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Agree with both of you here and I am much more concerned about our defense than our offense this early on. Both Cole and Gaffney need to be able to stop penetration and for now not much of that happening. Recovery speed, mentioned above, is an issue. Adams while aggressive is a bit overrated by many here, he works hard and plays physical but gets beat off the dribble too. Having said that Bouk has been less than stellar on that end so far too, passive it seems. He has the ability to be a good defender but needs to concentrate and focus on it. Martin and Jackson also can be solid defenders as their size will be a factor too.

Offense will come with time together although would like to see more sets run for better shooters and more Sanogo getting it deeper in the lane, much more!
 
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nelsonmuntz said:
You said it better than I said it.

I would add that it is really hard to screen with a center above the 3 point line when there are 4 out because a defender is usually close enough to the screen to either help or trap on the screen. The problem with everyone around the perimeter is that it actually reduces spaces for the outside players. It is harder to drive and it is harder to shoot 3's.

Seton Hall will start most sets with 4 or 5 out, but they immediately drop a wing in to screen, and often send another cutter baseline to use a backscreen by the 5 around the block. That action is hard to defend, especially when they do it with the Georgian. Either he is going to end up with an open shot, have a driving lane if the defender tries to beat over the screen, or have a 1 on 1 against a smaller player if the defense switches. All those outcomes suck if you are the defense.
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It’s the inverse of our problem with Carlton on D. He chased those guys outside, leaving the lane open. Smart defenders realize they can simply play that screener 5-6 feet back so they can recover to protect the rim. Hurley is trying to lure opposing centers out and nobody is taking the bait, because our guys can’t score from out there.

I would rather see us occupy the defensive 5 with a player who can seal him off one to side of the lane. I watch a lot of Kansas games and this is what I see them doing. Their offense is a hell of a lot more elegant than ours. If the center converges on the driving player, our C should now be open for an interior pass. if they do send the 5 out, you will see the wing cut along the baseline to the basket for an alley oop or back door pass. Our wings just stand there.

 
I didn’t have a chance to catch the Seton Hall/Louisville game so I checked out the Seton Hall box score to see what great offense looks like. Apparently it’s 33% from the field, 26% from 3, with one more assist than turnover.

They just missed a ton of easy wide open shots I guess.
 
I don’t agree with any of it at all. Team was inpatient on offense, and over aggressive on defense.

3s are fine. But, you need good 3s. Not the sidestep off the dribble 3. The ball needs to hit the paint on a drive or pass and the kick out for 3.

whaley a good passer out of the post. Cole is a prolific 3-point shooter. He can shoot all day.
They need patience. I like whaley and Sanogo splitting time at the 5.
 
7774 said:
I didn’t have a chance to catch the Seton Hall/Louisville game so I checked out the Seton Hall box score to see what great offense looks like. Apparently it’s 33% from the field, 26% from 3, with one more assist than turnover.

They just missed a ton of easy wide open shots I guess.
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I posted this during the game:

nelsonmuntz said:
Louisville vs. Seton Hall is a well played game but Seton Hall is just ice cold. Everything looks right until the ball leaves the players' hands. They can't throw it in the ocean right now.
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HuskyHawk said:
It’s the inverse of our problem with Carlton on D. He chased those guys outside, leaving the lane open. Smart defenders realize they can simply play that screener 5-6 feet back so they can recover to protect the rim. Hurley is trying to lure opposing centers out and nobody is taking the bait, because our guys can’t score from out there.

I would rather see us occupy the defensive 5 with a player who can seal him off one to side of the lane. I watch a lot of Kansas games and this is what I see them doing. Their offense is a hell of a lot more elegant than ours. If the center converges on the driving player, our C should now be open for an interior pass. if they do send the 5 out, you will see the wing cut along the baseline to the basket for an alley oop or back door pass. Our wings just stand there.

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That is a great video. Thank you for sharing it. The movement doesn't need to be rocket science, but an offense has to be a threat to attack the basket on passes or the defense can just keep handing off the cutters.
 
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Apparently @superjohn, @Psolo12 and quite a few other posters in this thread know UConn's offense better than Coach Hurley.

Seriously SJ, how many times do I have to dunk on you in 24 hours?
 
nelsonmuntz said:


Apparently @superjohn, @Psolo12 and quite a few other posters in this thread know UConn's offense better than Coach Hurley.

Seriously SJ, how many times do I have to dunk on you in 24 hours?
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You complaining incessantly about the wrong defense last night and clearly not knowing what a 1-3-1 is was great but you really should've been banned for creating that Carlton thread telling him to quit.

Continue to make up that myself and others want us to play 4 guards together and whatever you're trying to do here, it's really working out well for you.
 
7774 said:
I didn’t have a chance to catch the Seton Hall/Louisville game so I checked out the Seton Hall box score to see what great offense looks like. Apparently it’s 33% from the field, 26% from 3, with one more assist than turnover.

They just missed a ton of easy wide open shots I guess.
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This post didn't age well, did it?
 
superjohn said:
You complaining incessantly about the wrong defense last night and clearly not knowing what a 1-3-1 is was great but you really should've been banned for creating that Carlton thread telling him to quit.

Continue to make up that myself and others want us to play 4 guards together and whatever you're trying to do here, it's really working out well for you.
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You just made up a whole bunch of stuff that I didn't actually say. I dunked on you for 3 days, and Hurley finished the job last night. You should find something else to post about. I don't think posting about basketball is for you.
 
I think it's fair to say this team should be better than last year. I mean, Carlton's PT has been reduced to zero. Which is a bit odd, but suggests our new bigs are better. We will be improving our comp as well. So we'll see how our improved squad fairs in the win/loss column.

The least of my worries is how well the offense is working at the moment.
 
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nelsonmuntz said:
You just made up a whole bunch of stuff that I didn't actually say. I dunked on you for 3 days, and Hurley finished the job last night. You should find something else to post about. I don't think posting about basketball is for you.
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When everyone on the board tells you you're a moron except for freescooter, it's a you problem. It is fun watching you make a clown of yourself so I'm glad the Carlton thread only got taken down and you weren't banned but that was probably the most pathetic thread ever created here, maybe you learned your lesson but I doubt it.
 
superjohn said:
When everyone on the board tells you you're a moron except for freescooter, it's a you problem. It is fun watching you make a clown of yourself so I'm glad the Carlton thread only got taken down and you weren't banned but that was probably the most pathetic thread ever created here, maybe you learned your lesson but I doubt it.
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Hurley agreed with essentially everything I said last night.

You lost on this one. Move along.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Hurley agreed with essentially everything I said last night.

You lost on this one. Move along.
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He's a million times better than you are at it...
gaslighting-people-who-gaslight-typically-use-the-following-techniques-1-24493209.png
 
I don't think we have the talent to play an analytics driven 4/5 out offense, and I don't think Hurley really believes in it anyway. He should play the offense he feels comfortable with, with some analytics principles thrown in. Hurley is not Jay Wright. He is a throwback coach and I think he wants to play a throwback style. That is probably also the right style for the talent he has.

Dribble penetration, quick ball movement, some post up, but allow the players to improvise.
 
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