Shonn Miller

[OkaForPrez]

I would love to see the on/off splits on Brimah for last season. My recollection was that we lost more on offense than defense with him out of the game but that could be a function of Nolan being a capable backup (defensively).

I lean a lot closer to your side in this argument than Mau's, but I think it's fair to mention that by UConn standards the defense was pretty ordinary last season. You obviously can't pin that all on Brimah but I didn't think his performance last season warranted defensive player of the year (though I wouldn't be shocked if there were stats that proved me wrong).

I can't imagine the coaching staff was teaching him to hedge hard but that's what it looked like at times, probably because of nothing but inexperience. He over pursued the ball and generally underestimated his own length/athleticism, IMO. That said, his flashes of dominance (the Florida game comes to mind) leads me to believe he's going to get to a point this season where he's among the best defensive players in the country.

I always think about the last 6 min against Cinci.

http://uconnhuskygames.com/3132015-uconn-vs-cincinnati-aac-tournament-quaterfinal/

 

[BlueMAB]

It's not the 15 points that is significant, its the way it would force defenses to extend to the three point line on him.

I think you're missing my point (or that's some excellent sarcasm). Unless you honestly believe that a defense won't respect 3/10 (because it's "terrible"), but 3.5/10 would keep them totally honest.

 

[caw]

Miller wasn't really "creating his own shot" when he shot threes, he was usually catching off a pick n pop (hoop-math has him @ 85.7 assisted 3pt field goals made. For comparison sake boatright was at 66.3-making a sizzling 41% which is unbelievable- and hamilton was at 82.7.) he is actually a very effective mid range /attacking the rim sort of forward, and that's what I hope to see more of. A reduction of his 3pt ball attempts but still high usage and scoring in the paint or extended jumpers.

That being said if he flaunts new consistency in his long range shooting, then by all means try to get them up. Having skepticism about his 3pt efficiency isn't nuts tho

Not trying to be a jerk but assisted makes doesn't tell us anything about his misses. All it shows is that he can make them off the catch better than by creating.

Let's say he was 8/10 on the catch and shoot and 2/25 by creating his own shot. Then he would have been creating his shot when taking threes, just not when making them. I don't know where to find those stats and didn't watch Cornell enough but would love to see his totals as such. There are a ton of ways to cut the data to find out if shot selection was his problem or not.

 

[mauconnfan]

@mauconnfan no offense but it's asinine to think we were below average defense with brimah on the floor . Look at his numbers , he is entering the year as the best defensive player on the team . Teams score less when he is on the floor . Would you substitute his rim protection for 3 more rebounds per game? I wouldn't

He is the best shot blocker on the team and not at all the best "defensive" when isolated on his man player on the team as I stated. He is indeed a difference maker but what would be asinine as you say, would be anyone who thinks besides his shot blocking, that he was a real good defensive player because then you do have your glasses on. Again, I am not discounting his ability to change the game so this brings the level of defense up for sure, but when he's not blocking shots and he's covering someone down low he was used a ton. not sure how blind people can get. Add to that how many times he was not in position to get a rebound which should have been his, or it went through his hands (yes on the defensive end so it counts), you have a mediocre defensive player. In other words if he couldn't block shots, you'd have to think whether or not he should be on the floor.

I'm not hard on him, I'm telling the truth. Screw the hard on him stuff, open your eyes. He should improve this year just from playing time and feel one would hope. He then becomes even more of an impact than what he is. As I've said a million times I would take him over most of the C's in college basketball as is, but the smoke many of you blow up his a** is hilarious, if not asinine.

 

[OkaForPrez]

Here's the issue @mauconnfan, I don't think anyone is suggesting Brimah is infallible. I think we have a common ground here that Brimah is both an exceptional talent and raw in parts of his game. But the numbers indicate that the good far outweigh the bad and the impression I get is that you want to sell the reverse. Or at the very least that its break even. It's not.

Brimah is not a marginal defensive player who blocks a lot of shots. He's a great defensive player who is occasionally bully balled off his spot, out of position and not rebounding to what his size suggests he should. And despite those warts he changes games, a lot of them.

But I'll settle for agreeing that he has flaws and by nature a lot them should be managed through his continued floor time and the added weight he put on this year.

 

[champs99and04]

I think you're missing my point (or that's some excellent sarcasm). Unless you honestly believe that a defense won't respect 3/10 (because it's "terrible"), but 3.5/10 would keep them totally honest.

Maybe not "totally honest," and I'm not much of a math guy, but a lot of these schematic decisions - whether to invite a shot or defend it - boil down to mathematical propositions, no? There is a point where a shot is either efficient or inefficient, and from my understanding, even a marginal difference in percentage like the example you gave can tilt the arrow in either direction.

Again, I could be wrong, but the analytics, I would guess, treat 30% three point shooters and 35% three point shooters differently. In regards to the percentages, I have always thought of 33% as the bare minimum, 35-36% as average, 38-40% as excellent and anything above that as transformative. The difference between "average" and "you shouldn't be taking threes" might very well exist between those figures, even if it seems insignificant on the surface.

 

[mauconnfan]

Here's the issue @mauconnfan, I don't think anyone is suggesting Brimah is infallible. I think we have a common ground here that Brimah is both an exceptional talent and raw in parts of his game. But the numbers indicate that the good far outweigh the bad and the impression I get is that you want to sell the reverse. Or at the very least that its break even. It's not.

Brimah is not a marginal defensive player who blocks a lot of shots. He's a great defensive player who is occasionally bully balled off his spot, out of position and not rebounding to what his size suggests he should. And despite those warts he changes games, a lot of them.

But I'll settle for agreeing that he has flaws and by nature a lot them should be managed through his continued floor time and the added weight he put on this year.

We don't agree at all as he is not at all a "great" defensive player. That right there, using last year as the barometer, is an inaccurate statement sorry. Hope he comes out much better and knows how to move his feet when isolated, but he didn't last year and anyone who saw anything else, well I'd call you blind. Still love all of you, I do, you just aren't right! LOL

 

[OkaForPrez]

We don't agree at all as he is not at all a "great" defensive player. That right there, using last year as the barometer, is an inaccurate statement sorry. Hope he comes out much better and knows how to move his feet when isolated, but he didn't last year and anyone who saw anything else, well I'd call you blind. Still love all of you, I do, you just aren't right! LOL

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/aac/2015-stats.html

I'll always be on the side of the numbers.

 

[Stainmaster]

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/aac/2015-stats.html

I'll always be on the side of the numbers.

Mau doesn't let the numbers you read online affect him - try asking about the heights of Stanley Johnson and Kevin Pangos.

 

[mauconnfan]

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/aac/2015-stats.html

I'll always be on the side of the numbers.

That's your call, I hope he lives up to the numbers soon enough I am rooting for the young man, just not blind OFP.

 

[OkaForPrez]

That's your call, I hope he lives up to the numbers soon enough I am rooting for the young man, just not blind OFP.

We all see it, you're just putting undue emphasis on areas that aren't as impactful to the bottom line, kind of like calling AP a marginal running back because he isn't good at pass protection or catching balls out of the backfield. It doesn't mean he's not great when he's trucking linebackers and beating safeties in the 2nd level. Taking away 5 pts a game in blocked shots is a big deal, it outweighs the flaws significantly. That's the disconnect.

 

[BlueMAB]

Maybe not "totally honest," and I'm not much of a math guy, but a lot of these schematic decisions - whether to invite a shot or defend it - boil down to mathematical propositions, no? There is a point where a shot is either efficient or inefficient, and from my understanding, even a marginal difference in percentage like the example you gave can tilt the arrow in either direction.

Again, I could be wrong, but the analytics, I would guess, treat 30% three point shooters and 35% three point shooters differently. In regards to the percentages, I have always thought of 33% as the bare minimum, 35-36% as average, 38-40% as excellent and anything above that as transformative. The difference between "average" and "you shouldn't be taking threes" might very well exist between those figures, even if it seems insignificant on the surface.

SMH. If defenses choose to back off a 30% three point shooter and give him more open looks, that could very well turn him into a 35% tjree point shooter considering he only needs to make 5 more shots over the course of 100 attempts.

 

[Deadrody]

"Similar role" doesn't signify having identical attributes. Miller should be used to stretch the floor and add another dimension to the offense like Daniels did, but he's not the 3-point shooter that Daniels was at all and I would not be comfortable with him taking close to as many 3s as Daniels did.

You seem to have utterly missed this part of the Ollie quote:

Ollie: And Shonn is kind of the hub of our offense. A lot of people say it's about our guards -- it's really about having a versatile four-man. Shonn gives us a component that we didn't have last year in the sense that he can pick-and-pop, he can shoot the three,

 

[Deadrody]

Yes and no. Of course he plugs that gap on defense but offensively he's a point forward. I agree we don't want him shooting 3's, .

Indeed. We should definitely ignore what the head coach sais - he can shoot the three - and decide for ourselves.

 

[Deadrody]

Brimah is not a marginal defensive player who blocks a lot of shots. He's a great defensive player who is occasionally bully balled off his spot, out of position and not rebounding to what his size suggests he should. And despite those warts he changes games, a lot of them.

That statement is flat out delusional. Outside of blocking shots, Brimah was marginal at best. How a guy that is 7 feet tall can go through an entire game without one rebound is mind boggling.

 

[mauconnfan]

We all see it, you're just putting undue emphasis on areas that aren't as impactful to the bottom line, kind of like calling AP a marginal running back because he isn't good at pass protection or catching balls out of the backfield. It doesn't mean he's not great when he's trucking linebackers and beating safeties in the 2nd level. Taking away 5 pts a game in blocked shots is a big deal, it outweighs the flaws significantly. That's the disconnect.

The disconnect is the 8-10 points he gives on isolation or when he attempts to help at the wrong time and his man gets a lay in. Again, just one mans opinion but some need to watch his total package of last year before the word "great" comes into play. Meka was "great" - right places all the time, real tough to score on one-on-one on the block, blocked shots from the weak side and rebounded the basketball on misses. My only hope is that he gets better and you guys can potentially call him great while being correct, I'm all in. For now it is what it is.

But again OFP, you're the man and I respect your opinion as I do James and aceboon I really do! Just a disagreement on a guy I do like a lot.

 

[Walker11]

Being a rim protector is really, really important in our defensive scheme and the fact that Amidah was arguably the top rim protector in the country is invaluable. This is not difficult.

 

[JSB60]

Indeed. We should definitely ignore what the head coach sais - he can shoot the three - and decide for ourselves.

Or decide by looking at his three years at Cornell when he made 26.8 percent of his threes.

 

[Walker11]

Or decide by looking at his three years at Cornell when he made 26.8 percent of his threes.

If you watch Miller's games on YouTube you will see him miss a lot of bad 3 attempts that he only took because he was the primary option, and that he will never have the green light for here. The answer is somewhere in the middle.

 

[OkaForPrez]

The disconnect is the 8-10 points he gives on isolation or when he attempts to help at the wrong time and his man gets a lay in. Again, just one mans opinion but some need to watch his total package of last year before the word "great" comes into play. Meka was "great" - right places all the time, real tough to score on one-on-one on the block, blocked shots from the weak side and rebounded the basketball on misses. My only hope is that he gets better and you guys can potentially call him great while being correct, I'm all in. For now it is what it is.

But again OFP, you're the man and I respect your opinion as I do James and aceboon I really do! Just a disagreement on a guy I do like a lot.

8-10 is an exaggeration otherwise he wouldn't be in the top 5 frontcourt players in the conference for DWS which is roughly a direct translation for personal points allowed relative to team points allowed. You are arguing against hard numbers with subjective ones.

And yes, in case the tone doesn't translate this is all casual debate to pass time until the season gets here. Much respect.

 

[OkaForPrez]

That statement is flat out delusional. Outside of blocking shots, Brimah was marginal at best. How a guy that is 7 feet tall can go through an entire game without one rebound is mind boggling.

Outside of blocking shots.
Outside of the stat that he lead all of college basketball in by a sizeable margin.
Outside of the attribute fundamental to our defensive strategy, which allows our perimeter defense to more aggressively pressure and close out on the three point shot, which has become an essential weapon in college basketball.


Outside of hitting, David Ortiz is a marginal baseball player.
Outside of throwing the ball on time to the right receiver, Peyton manning really can't do much else in the pocket these days.

Etc. Etc.

 

[mauconnfan]

Being a rim protector is really, really important in our defensive scheme and the fact that Amidah was arguably the top rim protector in the country is invaluable. This is not difficult.

We were 20-15 with the top rim protector and a center who didn't rebound very well or score the ball when his back was to the basket. This is also not very difficult, he needs to improve to be called "great" in a few areas. But you are correct in the fact it is invaluable to have a rim protector but it will be more valuable to him that he will have better and more experienced defenders around him to make up for the inconsistent decisions. With Facey and an immature DHam it wasn't as easy for him to just roam because it left too many easy baskets. I do believe he will add at least one blocked shot a game this year based on their ability to defend better on the interior.

 

[mauconnfan]

Outside of blocking shots.
Outside of the stat that he lead all of college basketball in by a sizeable margin.
Outside of the attribute fundamental to our defensive strategy, which allows our perimeter defense to more aggressively pressure and close out on the three point shot, which has become an essential weapon in college basketball.


Outside of hitting, David Ortiz is a marginal baseball player.
Outside of throwing the ball on time to the right receiver, Peyton manning really can't do much else in the pocket these days.

Etc. Etc.

While you make some good points, and maybe it's just me, but the "numbers" we speak of are so whacked at times I can't agree with them. Who's coming up with these, same guys who said Dustin Pedroia made more tough plays than Robinson Cano years ago because he had to dive at 5'9 and Cano made them look easy? Ok so you know they were both great fielders and deserved the GG but some of these crazy "numbers" and percentages in sports are made my geeks with little or no knowledge of the play itself or the game itself. Hey they are a ton smarter than me so maybe they're accurate but to me they're missing too much of the game for them to be spot on or close.

End result from all this crap is if AB becomes just a little better in the parts of the game he needed to we're going to be really really good. Bottom line is that's what I am rooting for.

 

[OkaForPrez]

While you make some good points, and maybe it's just me, but the "numbers" we speak of are so whacked at times I can't agree with them. Who's coming up with these, same guys who said Dustin Pedroia made more tough plays than Robinson Cano years ago because he had to dive at 5'9 and Cano made them look easy? Ok so you know they were both great fielders and deserved the GG but some of these crazy "numbers" and percentages in sports are made my geeks with little or no knowledge of the play itself or the game itself. Hey they are a ton smarter than me so maybe they're accurate but to me they're missing too much of the game for them to be spot on or close.

End result from all this crap is if AB becomes just a little better in the parts of the game he needed to we're going to be really really good. Bottom line is that's what I am rooting for.

Whaju call me?! Nah I was going to make the point that I have no idea who is checking the box to say who's individual fault it was somebody scored. I have no idea how that's done.

I assume its as explicit as, Amida was guarding X player and he scored so he is attributed the points.

But then how do you treat a zone? No clue.

 

[mauconnfan]

Whaju call me?! Nah I was going to make the point that I have no idea who is checking the box to say who's individual fault it was somebody scored. I have no idea how that's done.

I assume its as explicit as, Amida was guarding X player and he scored so he is attributed the points.

But then how do you treat a zone? No clue.

I called you OFP - hey we want him to be "great" and man if he is the sky's the limit for this team. As i said before even as is with his ability to block shots and lay alley oops in we are fine as the Huskies roster has improved. But he could be a huge difference maker with some tweaking for sure, HUGE.