Shonn Miller

[CallMeBruce]

It's that some seem to be ignoring his prior history of not being a good outside shooter and are betting that he'll suddenly improve after just a month with KO.

It seems like you're ignoring Daniels' and Giffey's prior history of not being good outside shooters until that season. I don't think Miller is suddenly going to become a 40+% guy from three, but when you never ask a player to create his own shot, he misses a lot less often.

 

[Stainmaster]

It seems like you're ignoring Daniels' and Giffey's prior history of not being good outside shooters until that season. I don't think Miller is suddenly going to become a 40+% guy from three, but when you never ask a player to create his own shot, he misses a lot less often.

That's valid, and I suppose I have homework to do in terms of comparing the specifics of his prior numbers with those of D and Giff. My bad.

 

[James]

Miller wasn't really "creating his own shot" when he shot threes, he was usually catching off a pick n pop (hoop-math has him @ 85.7 assisted 3pt field goals made. For comparison sake boatright was at 66.3-making a sizzling 41% which is unbelievable- and hamilton was at 82.7.) he is actually a very effective mid range /attacking the rim sort of forward, and that's what I hope to see more of. A reduction of his 3pt ball attempts but still high usage and scoring in the paint or extended jumpers.

That being said if he flaunts new consistency in his long range shooting, then by all means try to get them up. Having skepticism about his 3pt efficiency isn't nuts tho

 

[raf46]

Miller wasn't really "creating his own shot" when he shot threes, he was usually catching off a pick n pop (hoop-math has him @ 85.7 assisted 3pt field goals made. For comparison sake boatright was at 66.3-making a sizzling 41% which is unbelievable- and hamilton was at 82.7.) he is actually a very effective mid range /attacking the rim sort of forward, and that's what I hope to see more of. A reduction of his 3pt ball attempts but still high usage and scoring in the paint or extended jumpers.

That being said if he flaunts new consistency in his long range shooting, then by all means try to get them up. Having skepticism about his 3pt efficiency isn't nuts tho

Miller was brought here to rebound and defend. Which makes AB better. If Miller is shooting 3s, then the Adams, Gibbs, Purvis and Calhoun, have failed. A few 3s yes. But we need him to Board!

 

[OkaForPrez]

Miller was brought here to rebound and defend. Which makes AB better. If Miller is shooting 3s, then the Adams, Gibbs, Purvis and Calhoun, have failed. A few 3s yes. But we need him to Board!

Yes and no. Of course he plugs that gap on defense but offensively he's a point forward. I agree we don't want him shooting 3's, but we do want him getting a lot of touches on the offensive end. He can break down the defense off the dribble playing outside in and find the open man.

 

[raf46]

Yes and no. Of course he plugs that gap on defense but offensively he's a point forward. I agree we don't want him shooting 3's, but we do want him getting a lot of touches on the offensive end. He can break down the defense off the dribble playing outside in and find the open man.

Sounds good to me. The better he is the better for the team. Houston in a April.

 

[80shusky]

We want him taking and making just enough threes to pull his defender out of the paint when needed and make them play up on him.
Edited to add: If he can pull slower less agile 4s out of the paint to guard him he is going to create match up problems.

 

[James]

should clarify that I'm not trying to sound like byron Scott and am quite aware of the advantages of 3pt attempts, I just need to see miller in the fold and how he adjusts with better talent. Ideally he actually can shoot and elevate his play at conn (above 35% on atleast 3 attempts per game).

I am also not down with this new boneyard obsession with rebounding like that's why we lost games last season; games were lost because we had 1 elite college scorer in boat and he wasn't really an innate distributer. To many yard posters disdain , the defense was well above average thanks to brimah and boat . The squad needed more efficient offensive options who can playmake.

 

[mauconnfan]

should clarify that I'm not trying to sound like byron Scott and am quite aware of the advantages of 3pt attempts, I just need to see miller in the fold and how he adjusts with better talent. Ideally he actually can shoot and elevate his play at conn (above 35% on atleast 3 attempts per game).

I am also not down with this new boneyard obsession with rebounding like that's why we lost games last season; games were lost because we had 1 elite college scorer in boat and he wasn't really an innate distributer. To many yard posters disdain , the defense was well above average thanks to brimah and boat . The squad needed more efficient offensive options who can playmake.

Well if blocking shots is how we rate good defense then yes. But Ab wasn't a good "defender" as of yet last year because he could block shots. With he and Facey in games we were actually well below average on defense from what I saw and will improve dramatically if Ab becomes better all around and the addition of Miller. Also DHam needs to be a better on ball defender which I think he will.

Rebounding improvement will show a dramatic change in scoring and running, as well as defense because of less 2nd chances. Rebounding is huge for this team, but that's me.

 

[James]

@mauconnfan no offense but it's asinine to think we were below average defense with brimah on the floor . Look at his numbers , he is entering the year as the best defensive player on the team . Teams score less when he is on the floor . Would you substitute his rim protection for 3 more rebounds per game? I wouldn't

 

[aceboon]

If anyone still wants to argue that Brimah isn't a polarizing figure, mau actually trying to argue that UConn was a below average defensive team with him on the floor should put that to absolute rest. Cue up the Bill Cosby "that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard" soundbite.

 

[OkaForPrez]

Brimah was 13th in the conference in defensive win shares last year. That's a measure of points allowed not blocked shots.

 

[David 76]

Look, I agree Mau is tough on AB, but that isn't exactly what he said. He was saying that the Facey/AB back court was vulnerable when they were out there together.. I think it is reasonable to admit that there were stretches where our backcourt struggled on offense, defense.and rebounding.

 

[aceboon]

Look, I agree Mau is tough on AB, but that isn't exactly what he said. He was saying that the Facey/AB back court was vulnerable when they were out there together.. I think it is reasonable to admit that there were stretches where our backcourt struggled on offense, defense.and rebounding.

That would be referred to as a frontcourt, and Facey should be isolated by himself.

 

[Paesano]

Miller is from Cornell so I already like him!

 

[David 76]

That would be referred to as a frontcourt, and Facey should be isolated by himself.

Oops. Long day

 

[BlueMAB]

shooting 30% or below from three is terrible, and possibly detrimental to the overall offense.

Ideally he actually can shoot and elevate his play at conn (above 35% on atleast 3 attempts per game).

If he shoots three attempts/game over 33 games he'll have 99 attempts.

30/99 is 30.30%
35/99 is 35.35%

5 makes over the course of the season is the difference between "terrible" and "ideal"??

Yeah, okay.

 

[Huskies4ever]

29-30% from a 4 isn't great but it makes them think enough so that's fine. With more scorers chances are he improves that and even at 35% that's a nice thing to have him step out and take another rebounder away or a good defender from the middle .

I used to be a good 4-point shooter myself.

 

[champs99and04]

If anyone still wants to argue that Brimah isn't a polarizing figure, mau actually trying to argue that UConn was a below average defensive team with him on the floor should put that to absolute rest. Cue up the Bill Cosby "that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard" soundbite.

I would love to see the on/off splits on Brimah for last season. My recollection was that we lost more on offense than defense with him out of the game but that could be a function of Nolan being a capable backup (defensively).

I lean a lot closer to your side in this argument than Mau's, but I think it's fair to mention that by UConn standards the defense was pretty ordinary last season. You obviously can't pin that all on Brimah but I didn't think his performance last season warranted defensive player of the year (though I wouldn't be shocked if there were stats that proved me wrong).

I can't imagine the coaching staff was teaching him to hedge hard but that's what it looked like at times, probably because of nothing but inexperience. He over pursued the ball and generally underestimated his own length/athleticism, IMO. That said, his flashes of dominance (the Florida game comes to mind) leads me to believe he's going to get to a point this season where he's among the best defensive players in the country.

 

[champs99and04]

If he shoots three attempts/game over 33 games he'll have 99 attempts.

30/99 is 30.30%
35/99 is 35.35%

5 makes over the course of the season is the difference between "terrible" and "ideal"??

Yeah, okay.

It's not the 15 points that is significant, its the way it would force defenses to extend to the three point line on him.

 

[OkaForPrez]

I would love to see the on/off splits on Brimah for last season. My recollection was that we lost more on offense than defense with him out of the game but that could be a function of Nolan being a capable backup (defensively).

I lean a lot closer to your side in this argument than Mau's, but I think it's fair to mention that by UConn standards the defense was pretty ordinary last season. You obviously can't pin that all on Brimah but I didn't think his performance last season warranted defensive player of the year (though I wouldn't be shocked if there were stats that proved me wrong).

I can't imagine the coaching staff was teaching him to hedge hard but that's what it looked like at times, probably because of nothing but inexperience. He over pursued the ball and generally underestimated his own length/athleticism, IMO. That said, his flashes of dominance (the Florida game comes to mind) leads me to believe he's going to get to a point this season where he's among the best defensive players in the country.

I always think about the last 6 min against Cinci.

http://uconnhuskygames.com/3132015-uconn-vs-cincinnati-aac-tournament-quaterfinal/

 

[BlueMAB]

It's not the 15 points that is significant, its the way it would force defenses to extend to the three point line on him.

I think you're missing my point (or that's some excellent sarcasm). Unless you honestly believe that a defense won't respect 3/10 (because it's "terrible"), but 3.5/10 would keep them totally honest.

 

[caw]

Miller wasn't really "creating his own shot" when he shot threes, he was usually catching off a pick n pop (hoop-math has him @ 85.7 assisted 3pt field goals made. For comparison sake boatright was at 66.3-making a sizzling 41% which is unbelievable- and hamilton was at 82.7.) he is actually a very effective mid range /attacking the rim sort of forward, and that's what I hope to see more of. A reduction of his 3pt ball attempts but still high usage and scoring in the paint or extended jumpers.

That being said if he flaunts new consistency in his long range shooting, then by all means try to get them up. Having skepticism about his 3pt efficiency isn't nuts tho

Not trying to be a jerk but assisted makes doesn't tell us anything about his misses. All it shows is that he can make them off the catch better than by creating.

Let's say he was 8/10 on the catch and shoot and 2/25 by creating his own shot. Then he would have been creating his shot when taking threes, just not when making them. I don't know where to find those stats and didn't watch Cornell enough but would love to see his totals as such. There are a ton of ways to cut the data to find out if shot selection was his problem or not.

 

[mauconnfan]

@mauconnfan no offense but it's asinine to think we were below average defense with brimah on the floor . Look at his numbers , he is entering the year as the best defensive player on the team . Teams score less when he is on the floor . Would you substitute his rim protection for 3 more rebounds per game? I wouldn't

He is the best shot blocker on the team and not at all the best "defensive" when isolated on his man player on the team as I stated. He is indeed a difference maker but what would be asinine as you say, would be anyone who thinks besides his shot blocking, that he was a real good defensive player because then you do have your glasses on. Again, I am not discounting his ability to change the game so this brings the level of defense up for sure, but when he's not blocking shots and he's covering someone down low he was used a ton. not sure how blind people can get. Add to that how many times he was not in position to get a rebound which should have been his, or it went through his hands (yes on the defensive end so it counts), you have a mediocre defensive player. In other words if he couldn't block shots, you'd have to think whether or not he should be on the floor.

I'm not hard on him, I'm telling the truth. Screw the hard on him stuff, open your eyes. He should improve this year just from playing time and feel one would hope. He then becomes even more of an impact than what he is. As I've said a million times I would take him over most of the C's in college basketball as is, but the smoke many of you blow up his a** is hilarious, if not asinine.

 

[OkaForPrez]

Here's the issue @mauconnfan, I don't think anyone is suggesting Brimah is infallible. I think we have a common ground here that Brimah is both an exceptional talent and raw in parts of his game. But the numbers indicate that the good far outweigh the bad and the impression I get is that you want to sell the reverse. Or at the very least that its break even. It's not.

Brimah is not a marginal defensive player who blocks a lot of shots. He's a great defensive player who is occasionally bully balled off his spot, out of position and not rebounding to what his size suggests he should. And despite those warts he changes games, a lot of them.

But I'll settle for agreeing that he has flaws and by nature a lot them should be managed through his continued floor time and the added weight he put on this year.

 

[champs99and04]

I think you're missing my point (or that's some excellent sarcasm). Unless you honestly believe that a defense won't respect 3/10 (because it's "terrible"), but 3.5/10 would keep them totally honest.

Maybe not "totally honest," and I'm not much of a math guy, but a lot of these schematic decisions - whether to invite a shot or defend it - boil down to mathematical propositions, no? There is a point where a shot is either efficient or inefficient, and from my understanding, even a marginal difference in percentage like the example you gave can tilt the arrow in either direction.

Again, I could be wrong, but the analytics, I would guess, treat 30% three point shooters and 35% three point shooters differently. In regards to the percentages, I have always thought of 33% as the bare minimum, 35-36% as average, 38-40% as excellent and anything above that as transformative. The difference between "average" and "you shouldn't be taking threes" might very well exist between those figures, even if it seems insignificant on the surface.

 

[mauconnfan]

Here's the issue @mauconnfan, I don't think anyone is suggesting Brimah is infallible. I think we have a common ground here that Brimah is both an exceptional talent and raw in parts of his game. But the numbers indicate that the good far outweigh the bad and the impression I get is that you want to sell the reverse. Or at the very least that its break even. It's not.

Brimah is not a marginal defensive player who blocks a lot of shots. He's a great defensive player who is occasionally bully balled off his spot, out of position and not rebounding to what his size suggests he should. And despite those warts he changes games, a lot of them.

But I'll settle for agreeing that he has flaws and by nature a lot them should be managed through his continued floor time and the added weight he put on this year.

We don't agree at all as he is not at all a "great" defensive player. That right there, using last year as the barometer, is an inaccurate statement sorry. Hope he comes out much better and knows how to move his feet when isolated, but he didn't last year and anyone who saw anything else, well I'd call you blind. Still love all of you, I do, you just aren't right! LOL

 

[OkaForPrez]

We don't agree at all as he is not at all a "great" defensive player. That right there, using last year as the barometer, is an inaccurate statement sorry. Hope he comes out much better and knows how to move his feet when isolated, but he didn't last year and anyone who saw anything else, well I'd call you blind. Still love all of you, I do, you just aren't right! LOL

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/aac/2015-stats.html

I'll always be on the side of the numbers.

 

[Stainmaster]

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/aac/2015-stats.html

I'll always be on the side of the numbers.

Mau doesn't let the numbers you read online affect him - try asking about the heights of Stanley Johnson and Kevin Pangos.

 

[mauconnfan]

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/aac/2015-stats.html

I'll always be on the side of the numbers.

That's your call, I hope he lives up to the numbers soon enough I am rooting for the young man, just not blind OFP.