Rogue One

[intlzncster]

The force flows through everyone. There is no such thing as 'force-sensitivity.' Every being in the galaxy is able to feel the force in their own way. Now - this doesn't mean that everyone gets to manipulate the force like a Jedi would. It simply means the potential is there for everyone.

The reason I bring up this up is because some think that if the Jedi Order 'ends,' then that means Star Wars ceases to be interesting. The Jedi are just a group with a particular philosophy about life and the force who have mastered their ability to connect with the force. If the Jedi Order does 'end,' we could potentially be seeing a new generation of Jedi-like beings who build off of the mistakes of both the Jedi and Sith, and develop their own philosophies through refined sight. And this refined sight could allow them to master abilities with the force that even the Jedi were unaware of. Lucasfilm really has a crazy amount of different directions that they can take this story; it's exciting.

These posts are always interesting, because I don't read much background outside of the movies (probably should).

From what I would have thought, the potential isn't there for everyone though. If you put some random person through Jedi training, they wouldn't be able to do the same things, no? What about Midi-chlorian count and all that stuff?

I kind of like light saber wielding monks in robes. That's important to my Star Wars ethos. It's sort of like removing the Samurai from a Japanese 17th century Japanese war movie. All your left with is generals and soldiers.

Gotta have Jedi. Just the idea of having Luke being a hermit in self imposed exile on an island on some distant planet was great stuff.

 

[FeedTheDove]

These posts are always interesting, because I don't read much background outside of the movies (probably should).

From what I would have thought, the potential isn't there for everyone though. If you put some random person through Jedi training, they wouldn't be able to do the same things, no? What about Midi-chlorian count and all that stuff?

I'm glad you asked that.

The story group seems to have made a conscious effort to make it obvious that all beings have the potential to manipulate the force in a powerful way. But you're right in asking then, why aren't more beings powerful with the force then? I've been thinking about that for a while. Most beings in the galaxy probably don't even believe in the force. This is why I believe there are particular factors that ultimately decide how well someone can manipulate the force. I have had 3 factors in mind:

1. Midichlorian Count - Like it or not, this concept is canon, and there's a reason for it. Midichlorians are what connect the living force with the cosmic force. They allow beings to communicate with the force, and eventually, manipulate the force. If you have an extremely high midichlorian count, like Anakin, you have a lot of potential to be a powerful force user. It is akin to a person being born with innate athletic ability. This doesn't mean that you will end up becoming a powerful force user. Much like if an athlete doesn't work on his skills to polish his game, if a being doesn't train to manipulate the force, he/she won't be able to. Which leads me to...
2. Proper Training - The Jedi of the PT Era had ample access to the proper training to learn how to manipulate the force. They had a Temple full of the greatest Jedi in the galaxy to learn from. It's no wonder that these beings were incredibly powerful with the force.
3. Belief in/Dedication to the Force - "'I don't believe it.' 'That is why you fail.'" This is fairly straight forward. The more faith and trust somebody puts into the force, the stronger their connection to the force will be. Luke begins to trust the force when he blows up the DS in ANH.
   
   I'm sure there are more, these are just the few I had in mind. If you're interested in learning more about how the force works, do yourself a favor and watch the 4-episode Yoda arc in season 6 of The Clone Wars. It's on Netflix.

A prime example of a character who clearly has the force flowing through him, but can not manipulate the force would be Chirrut Imwe in Rogue One. Chirrut is a devout believer in the force. He is a Guardian of the Whills and clearly has a lot of history with the force. I bet if the PT Jedi were to take a blood sample of him, he'd have a fairly high midichlorian count. Chirrut, however, lacks the proper training to solidify his connection with the force to allow him to manipulate it the way the Jedi do. There is nobody around during that time period to train Chirrut.

As for the Jedi order possibly disappearing after 8/9,
The Jedi Order wouldn't end, it would evolve and mature.

 

[junglehusky]

An analysis of writing and character development comparing Ep VII and Rogue One, I thought it was more or less accurate:

 

[Penfield]

An analysis of writing and character development comparing Ep VII and Rogue One, I thought it was more or less accurate:

That was a very reasonable take on both. I found both movies to be enjoyable but neither are without their flaws. Without the nostalgia Star Wars factor I wonder how much I would enjoy both movies.

As a Star Wars fan I think I enjoyed Rogue One better because it was different, expanded the lore, and it had a rad space battle. If I had never seen a Star Wars movie before I think I would have preferred The Force Awakens because the characters were better.

 

[intlzncster]

As a Star Wars fan I think I enjoyed Rogue One better because it was different, expanded the lore, and it had a rad space battle. If I had never seen a Star Wars movie before I think I would have preferred The Force Awakens because the characters were better.

But you can't really look at it like that. While they tried to make stand alone movies, these things are inherently made with the idea that you've seen the others. I mean, the writers can't erase those past movies from their minds, so inference automatically bleeds in. Add to that that they are trying to tie these movies in at the same time....

And let's be honest. All the movies have their flaws (yes even Empire). And these two weren't remotely the most flawed of the bunch.

 

[Penfield]

But you can't really look at it like that. While they tried to make stand alone movies, these things are inherently made with the idea that you've seen the others. I mean, the writers can't erase those past movies from their minds, so inference automatically bleeds in. Add to that that they are trying to tie these movies in at the same time....

And let's be honest. All the movies have their flaws (yes even Empire). And these two weren't remotely the most flawed of the bunch.

I would rank these two just below any of the OT movies, and maybe even above ROTJ. If you had the strong characters of TFA with the originality of RO you would have the perfect Star Wars movie. I am hoping The Last Jedi will check both boxes. The Han Solo movie also has a chance of doing something really different.

For what it's worth my wife had never watched a Star Wars movie from start to finish before TFA and RO. She enjoyed both, but preferred TFA.

 

[intlzncster]

I would rank these two just below any of the OT movies, and maybe even above ROTJ. If you had the strong characters of TFA with the originality of RO you would have the perfect Star Wars movie. I am hoping The Last Jedi will check both boxes. The Han Solo movie also has a chance of doing something really different.

For what it's worth my wife had never watched a Star Wars movie from start to finish before TFA and RO. She enjoyed both, but preferred TFA.

I never understood the mild dislike for ROTJ. Maybe it was the Ewoks. But it came out when I was a kid, so it was by far my favorite of the original three. I was even an Ewok for Halloween. Twice.

As I got older, I came to appreciate the nuance of Empire much more.

 

[Penfield]

I never understood the mild dislike for ROTJ. Maybe it was the Ewoks. But it came out when I was a kid, so it was by far my favorite of the original three. I was even an Ewok for Halloween. Twice.

As I got older, I came to appreciate the nuance of Empire much more.

I have watched ROTJ probably twice as many times as any of the other original trilogy movies. Loved it as a kid, but as an adult I can't help but think how much better the movie would have been if they had replaced the Ewoks w/ Wookies. I still think it's an enjoyable movie, but TFA & RO might be better.

 

[ZooCougar]

I have watched ROTJ probably twice as many times as any of the other original trilogy movies. Loved it as a kid, but as an adult I can't help but think how much better the movie would have been if they had replaced the Ewoks w/ Wookies. I still think it's an enjoyable movie, but TFA & RO might be better.

When I was a kid I like ROTJ better, as I got older The Empire Strikes Back took over. I definitely like RO more than TFA but I like both a great deal.

 

[Penfield]

I want to see a Star Wars movie that has no characters from the original trilogy and no death star.

 

[CL82]

I always liked the A New Hope the best of the first 6 movies. The later movies drifted from the original story line of ambitious governors rising to fill the void left by a weak emperor. I liked the romantic tension between the the three leads, until it got a creepy incest feel. I like cynical Hans as a de facto mentor for an idealist Luke.

I think I may be in the minority, though.

FWIW, I really liked TFA and Rogue One. They were a good modern update on the theme.

 

[intlzncster]

I have watched ROTJ probably twice as many times as any of the other original trilogy movies. Loved it as a kid, but as an adult I can't help but think how much better the movie would have been if they had replaced the Ewoks w/ Wookies. I still think it's an enjoyable movie, but TFA & RO might be better.

My favorite parts of ROTJ were, Boba, Emperor lightning, slave Leiah in that outfit, and that light speeder scene. For me that was pure adrenaline back in the day.

My biggest complaint with the Ewoks is that I think they directly led to the creation of Jar Jar and the Gungans. The Ewoks were huge with kids and absolute cash cow the first time around. And they wanted to replicate that.

 

[intlzncster]

I want to see a Star Wars movie that has no characters from the original trilogy and no death star.

My god yes on the latter. On the former, they're still trying to tie things in.

My personal desire is some pure Jedi movies, maybe how they came to be, or some interesting history or whatnot.

 

[Penfield]

My favorite parts of ROTJ were, Boba, Emperor lightning, slave Leiah in that outfit, and that light speeder scene. For me that was pure adrenaline back in the day.

My biggest complaint with the Ewoks is that I think they directly led to the creation of Jar Jar and the Gungans. The Ewoks were huge with kids and absolute cash cow the first time around. And they wanted to replicate that.

Boba? He didn't even get a cool death.

Love the Rancor, sarlacc, speeder bike chase, the space battle, and the final dual. Even w/ the ewoks the Battle of Endor is pretty great. AT-STs were awesome.

The ewoks... go back and watch them "club" a Storm trooper to death. Makes you wonder why any one would be afraid of those guys. At least Wookies winning with sticks and stones would make more sense.

ROTJ is great despite the ewoks.

 

[Penfield]

I think ROTJ we got makes the most sense when you realize that at that point George Lucas no longer wanted anything to do w/ the series and toys made a lot of money.

At this point there are probably too many rumors and half truths to know the full story but I think it safe to say that originally ROTJ was simply supposed to be the final installment of the first trilogy and more of a set up for a second trilogy of mostly the same characters.

“Originally Boba Fett was set up in Empire as a character, and the third movie’s plot was going to be more about Boba Fett rescuing Han Solo and all of that,” Miller revealed. “Boba was gonna be the main villain… That was set up, why he was taking Han Solo away, why there was a thing with him in the Christmas special.

“When George decided not to make a third trilogy, he completely jettisoned that story line, which is why in the first ten minutes, Boba Fett gets bumped into and falls into the mouth of a giant monster,” Miller added. “So he took what was planned for the third trilogy, which was the confrontation between Luke and Darth Vader, and the battle with the Emperor, and that got squished down from three movies to one movie. And that became the plot of Jedi.”

“And I remember sitting in a mixing room with George, working on Empire, and he told me he was just going to make the third movie, which didn’t have a title at that point, and then stop,” Miller continued. “He was going to retire from making big movies and make experimental movies. And that’s why the whole plot of the third movie, what became Return of the Jedi, completely changed.”

“We had an outline and George changed everything in it," Kurtz said. “Instead of bittersweet and poignant he wanted a euphoric ending with everybody happy. The original idea was that they would recover [the kidnapped] Han Solo in the early part of the story and that he would then die in the middle part of the film in a raid on an Imperial base. George then decided he didn’t want any of the principals killed. By that time there were really big toy sales and that was a reason.”

The discussed ending of the film that Kurtz favored presented the rebel forces in tatters, Leia grappling with her new duties as queen and Luke walking off alone “like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns,” as Kurtz put it.

Kurtz said that ending would have been a more emotionally nuanced finale to an epic adventure than the forest celebration of the Ewoks that essentially ended the trilogy with a teddy bear luau.

It was probably too early in the process to know the full story, but Lucas had been saying the series would be at least 9 movies long and that the OT was the the middle part. Leia was not intended to be Luke's sister, and the "other" Yoda spoke of was someone that hadn't been introduced yet.

 

[intlzncster]

Boba? He didn't even get a cool death.

Love the Rancor, sarlacc, speeder bike chase, the space battle, and the final dual. Even w/ the ewoks the Battle of Endor is pretty great. AT-STs were awesome.

The ewoks... go back and watch them "club" a Storm trooper to death. Makes you wonder why any one would be afraid of those guys. At least Wookies winning with sticks and stones would make more sense.

I agree, his death sucked. But he was one of my favorite Star Wars characters ever. I know I'm not alone in that, but still. I loved Jetpacks as a kid. Still do. Some Aussie guy made a cool real life one: Martin Jetpack

Forgot about the AT-STs in the trees. That was great.

I always thought it would have been great if the ewoks used those big buck teeth Gremlins style to devour their foe. Not exactly family friendly tho

 

[Penfield]

I agree, his death sucked. But he was one of my favorite Star Wars characters ever. I know I'm not alone in that, but still.

Forgot about the AT-STs in the trees. That was great.

Boba is the best.

 

[intlzncster]

Boba is the best.

I edited my post. See my ewok comment. lol

 

[Penfield]

I edited my post. See my ewok comment. lol

haha True. Convert Ewoks into Mogwai and I would be sold.