Rogue One

[Jaker]

The movie was badass

 

[Horatio]

The movie was great and they did an excellent job at not letting Vader steal the show. I loved his scenes and can't wait for separate Vader, Yoda and Mace Windu movies if they happen.

 

[Ts5034]

I did not read this whole thread, but who was the guy that approached Vader when he was in the bacta tank? Could it be Snoke??

 

[Horatio]

I did not read this whole thread, but who was the guy that approached Vader when he was in the bacta tank? Could it be Snoke??

At about 5:15 of this that character is explained

 

[ZooCougar]

@FeedTheDove @Penfield @ZooCougar

Any of you guys watch it in 3D? I did, and I'm not sure that enhanced the experience overall. Although 3D did add to one of the scenes at the end of the movie.

I think I'll see it without next time.

I think 3D made it harder to watch. I saw it in IMAX 3D.

 

[CL82]

So, I finally saw Rogue 1. It was very good movie IMO.

Spoiler: Yep another spoiler alert

1) I was pleasantly surprised that they let the raid participants die off. It made the sacrifice real and shows the importance of the info that was lodged in R2D2. That adds to A New Hope. (Oh and for what it is worth, the title A New Hope gets a little more meaning with the "rebellions are built on hope" quote.)

2) Who were the Bothians? Did I miss that? Did they ever say?

3) Finally we see why the Jedi were effective peace keepers and why the Sith were feared enemies. Watching Vader go through Rebel troops like a hot knife through butter was pretty freaking cool. Up to now force users really haven't been all that impressive. Blah, blah, blah... force lightning, quick reflexes, jumping ability, Jedi mind trick... yawn. Vader was the real deal swatting those guys like flies!

I enjoyed it. Kudos to Disney for not just letting the franchise be a marketing opportunity for kids' toys (yeah, I'm looking at you Ewoks.)

 

[tzznandrew]

So, I finally saw Rogue 1. It was very good movie IMO.

Spoiler: Yep another spoiler alert

1) I was pleasantly surprised that they let the raid participants die off. It made the sacrifice real and shows the importance of the info that was lodged in R2D2. That adds to A New Hope. (Oh and for what it is worth, the title A New Hope gets a little more meaning with the "rebellions are built on hope" quote.)

2) Who were the Bothians? Did I miss that? Did they ever say?

3) Finally we see why the Jedi were effective peace keepers and why the Sith were feared enemies. Watching Vader go through Rebel troops like a hot knife through butter was pretty freaking cool. Up to now force users really haven't been all that impressive. Blah, blah, blah... force lightning, quick reflexes, jumping ability, Jedi mind trick... yawn. Vader was the real deal swatting those guys like flies!

I enjoyed it. Kudos to Disney for not just letting the franchise be a marketing opportunity for kids' toys (yeah, I'm looking at you Ewoks.)

Bothans were in RotJ.

As for 1 and 3, agreed in each case.

 

[intlzncster]

I enjoyed it. Kudos to Disney for not just letting the franchise be a marketing opportunity for kids' toys (yeah, I'm looking at you Ewoks.)

As a young kid, I loved those little f^ckers. I was one for Halloween one year. Still have a soft spot.

As an adult, I hated Jar Jar.

 

[tzznandrew]

Just watched A New Hope again. Had a question.

Spoiler

If Vader was so bada$$ in Rogue One, why was his battle with Kenobi so weak in A New Hope.

Obviously I know the actual answer (they had a different idea of what lightsaber battles should look like, and Guiness was old). But it does seem like it creates minor continuity issues, right? I mean, not ones that make me actually upset--that R1 scene was awesome, but still. Am I missing something?

 

[junglehusky]

Just watched A New Hope again. Had a question.

Spoiler

If Vader was so bada$$ in Rogue One, why was his battle with Kenobi so weak in A New Hope.

Obviously I know the actual answer (they had a different idea of what lightsaber battles should look like, and Guiness was old). But it does seem like it creates minor continuity issues, right? I mean, not ones that make me actually upset--that R1 scene was awesome, but still. Am I missing something?

sshhh you'll make Lucas want to do a re-make.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Just watched A New Hope again. Had a question.

Spoiler

If Vader was so bada$$ in Rogue One, why was his battle with Kenobi so weak in A New Hope.

Obviously I know the actual answer (they had a different idea of what lightsaber battles should look like, and Guiness was old). But it does seem like it creates minor continuity issues, right? I mean, not ones that make me actually upset--that R1 scene was awesome, but still. Am I missing something?

You've touched on the out-of-universe answer.

A possible in-universe explanation: Vader was just toying with Obi-Wan, could have bested him easily but wanted to draw it out?

 

[CL82]

You've touched on the out-of-universe answer.

A possible in-universe explanation: Vader was just toying with Obi-Wan, could have bested him easily but wanted to draw it out?

Another possible answer is Vader ...

Spoiler

could act with abandon against non force sensitive Rebel Alliance personnel but he would be more careful against his former master. The fight was careful probing rather than an all out assault.

 

[junglehusky]

So Mr. Plinkett makes a decent point, I think. If this movie were on its own, and if someone who had never seen or read any Star Wars stories watched this movie, would it really stand on its own? Without all of that context, maybe this is just a run of the mill sci-fi movie, at least in terms of story/character/emotion. I somewhat agree (the script does try to work emotion into the story... but then again so did the prequels), but obviously everyone will watch this with the full context of the original and prequel trilogy, and judge it in terms of providing a different type of Star Wars story.

Spoiler: Review

 

[FeedTheDove]

You've touched on the out-of-universe answer.

A possible in-universe explanation: Vader was just toying with Obi-Wan, could have bested him easily but wanted to draw it out?

A lot of Star Wars fans prefer this in-universe explanation.

Another possible answer is Vader ...

Spoiler

could act with abandon against non force sensitive Rebel Alliance personnel but he would be more careful against his former master. The fight was careful probing rather than an all out assault.

Probably the next most popular explanation among fans.

Spoiler: Spoilers...seriously, go see R1

The more I think about it, the more I don't care about an explanation for Vader's lack of fighting skills in ANH. There shouldn't need to be an explanation for making an awesome, modern day movie skilled Darth Vader. I get worried sometimes, that Lucasfilm might hold back on showing how dominant Vader is because of how he was portrayed in ANH. That obviously didn't happen in R1, and I hope that trend continues if we happen to see Vader in a future movie or TV show (they've done a pretty great job with him so far in Rebels.)

Really, if they wanted to, Lucasfilm could easily come up with a story to be told in a comic book or some other medium for hardcore fans who are bothered by Vader's lack of skill in ANH. Maybe, in the couple of days or so in between the end of R1 and the Obi-Wan fight in ANH, Vader was badly injured, and needed a lot of time to heal in his bacta-tank to get back to full strength. He deals with Obi-Wan, still heavily hindered by his injuries, and then goes back to his castle on Mustafar to heal up to how we see him in ESB and RotJ. I'll write the friggin' story. Hire me Lucasfilm

 

[tzznandrew]

So Mr. Plinkett makes a decent point, I think. If this movie were on its own, and if someone who had never seen or read any Star Wars stories watched this movie, would it really stand on its own? Without all of that context, maybe this is just a run of the mill sci-fi movie, at least in terms of story/character/emotion. I somewhat agree (the script does try to work emotion into the story... but then again so did the prequels), but obviously everyone will watch this with the full context of the original and prequel trilogy, and judge it in terms of providing a different type of Star Wars story.

Spoiler: Review

Mr. Plinkett has had some good points throughout, but he's jumped the shark in my opinion. His shtick, it seems, is to hate whatever isn't the original Star Wars.

I mean, one of his complaints in this movie is that the movie can't stand on it's own; sure, of course it really can't explain everything and relies on the audience's context. Can you imagine if in every single movie the character's had to re-establish what the Force was? Don't Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi only really work if you have some idea who those characters were from the previous movies (Return of the Jedi in particular). Otherwise, to follow his criticism, it's like asking "I don't understand the motivations behind this woman who dresses like a bounty hunter and unfreezes Han Solo. Unless I've seen the other movies, this is just contextless emotion that hasn't been earned!"

Now, if Plinkett wants to argue that there is something unreasonable about the franchise expecting the fans see the other movies, that's fine. But it seemed pretty clear that A New Hope was expected for this movie. His half-hearted complaints about an "unsatisfying ending" are undermined the minute anyone realizes that the move presupposes--like a prerequisite to a class--that the audience has seen A New Hope. The audience literally can get by without any of the others in Rogue One, but his complaint is hollow.

Further, his unlikeable characters thing is wrong on two fronts. One, I thought some of the characters were likable, and putting a laugh track over a scene doesn't change that.

Second, even if I didn't like it, isn't part of the movie's point that

Spoiler

big successes come from the sacrifices of many unnamed people? What Luke and Leia and Han do--in their various arrays of virtuousness--can only be actually accomplished by the more sordid men and women who sacrifice themselves with no greater reward than a success they cannot see?

He seems to willfully miss these points to once again complain about how much better the originals were. And, interestingly enough, he talked in this clip about how he almost liked TFA, yet (perhaps I'm mistaken) but his review of that film gave me no inclination he enjoyed any of it at the time.

 

[tzznandrew]

A lot of Star Wars fans prefer this in-universe explanation.



Probably the next most popular explanation among fans.

Spoiler: Spoilers...seriously, go see R1

The more I think about it, the more I don't care about an explanation for Vader's lack of fighting skills in ANH. There shouldn't need to be an explanation for making an awesome, modern day movie skilled Darth Vader. I get worried sometimes, that Lucasfilm might hold back on showing how dominant Vader is because of how he was portrayed in ANH. That obviously didn't happen in R1, and I hope that trend continues if we happen to see Vader in a future movie or TV show (they've done a pretty great job with him so far in Rebels.)

Really, if they wanted to, Lucasfilm could easily come up with a story to be told in a comic book or some other medium for hardcore fans who are bothered by Vader's lack of skill in ANH. Maybe, in the couple of days or so in between the end of R1 and the Obi-Wan fight in ANH, Vader was badly injured, and needed a lot of time to heal in his bacta-tank to get back to full strength. He deals with Obi-Wan, still heavily hindered by his injuries, and then goes back to his castle on Mustafar to heal up to how we see him in ESB and RotJ. I'll write the friggin' story. Hire me Lucasfilm

Your major point here is right. I'd much prefer to see Vader as a badass. It was just something I notice and made me a little confused--mostly in the nitpicky way I've long since left behind. Your main point ring true.

 

[junglehusky]

Mr. Plinkett has had some good points throughout, but he's jumped the shark in my opinion. His shtick, it seems, is to hate whatever isn't the original Star Wars.

I mean, one of his complaints in this movie is that the movie can't stand on it's own; sure, of course it really can't explain everything and relies on the audience's context. Can you imagine if in every single movie the character's had to re-establish what the Force was? Don't Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi only really work if you have some idea who those characters were from the previous movies (Return of the Jedi in particular). Otherwise, to follow his criticism, it's like asking "I don't understand the motivations behind this woman who dresses like a bounty hunter and unfreezes Han Solo. Unless I've seen the other movies, this is just contextless emotion that hasn't been earned!"

Now, if Plinkett wants to argue that there is something unreasonable about the franchise expecting the fans see the other movies, that's fine. But it seemed pretty clear that A New Hope was expected for this movie. His half-hearted complaints about an "unsatisfying ending" are undermined the minute anyone realizes that the move presupposes--like a prerequisite to a class--that the audience has seen A New Hope. The audience literally can get by without any of the others in Rogue One, but his complaint is hollow.

Further, his unlikeable characters thing is wrong on two fronts. One, I thought some of the characters were likable, and putting a laugh track over a scene doesn't change that.

Second, even if I didn't like it, isn't part of the movie's point that

Spoiler

big successes come from the sacrifices of many unnamed people? What Luke and Leia and Han do--in their various arrays of virtuousness--can only be actually accomplished by the more sordid men and women who sacrifice themselves with no greater reward than a success they cannot see?

He seems to willfully miss these points to once again complain about how much better the originals were. And, interestingly enough, he talked in this clip about how he almost liked TFA, yet (perhaps I'm mistaken) but his review of that film gave me no inclination he enjoyed any of it at the time.

I think I need to watch it again to get a better feel for the characters. Thinking back, I just don't know how much I buy

Spoiler

Jyn's turn from being ambivalent about the Rebellion to being all "LET'S DO THIS!!"

And I think you make a good point about the characters. They don't have quite the Joseph Campbell journey or whatnot, but... do we even need to like them that much? Maybe not. One of the themes I kind of liked (and again, here you have to be a fan of the original trilogy), is that the Rebellion has a degree of ambiguity where, like the WWII squad that's been fighting for years, they're the good guys but they are war-weary and have done some shady things. But like I said... I think I need to watch again.

 

[CL82]

Mrs. CL82 is not a SW fan. Although it is tough to be completely unaware of SW, the only SW movies she's seen in TFA and R1. (Yes, really.) TFA was kind of meh for her, but she really like R1 based upon the characters. She felt that you understood them and rooted for them.

Just one woman's opinion but she's a good test case for someone who doesn't know the mythology watching the movies as a one off.

 

[FeedTheDove]

Mrs. CL82 is not a SW fan. Although it is tough to be completely unaware of SW, the only SW movies she's seen in TFA and R1. (Yes, really.) TFA was kind of meh for her, but she really like R1 based upon the characters. She felt that you understood them and rooted for them.

Just one woman's opinion but she's a good test case for someone who doesn't know the mythology watching the movies as a one off.

Went with my parents the day after Christmas. They're both basically as clueless as you can be about Star Wars. They saw the original back in the day like once, but besides that, nothing. They both liked it so much more than I expected, it felt good lol. I thought my dad wouldn't really like it as a 'war film' because of the restrictions that Star Wars films have with regards to blood, gore, violence... but he was even talking to me about it at the Houston game a couple days later saying how much he enjoyed it.

Granted, I gave my mom quite a bit of back story before she went into the movie. Didn't give my dad much though, and he still thought it's a good enough stand alone film.

 

[FeedTheDove]

I think I need to watch it again to get a better feel for the characters. Thinking back, I just don't know how much I buy

Spoiler

Jyn's turn from being ambivalent about the Rebellion to being all "LET'S DO THIS!!"

Spoiler: Regarding this

Her turn comes as soon as she watches Galen's hologram message. She had a pretty deep connection to her father, and at the beginning of the film, she probably thinks that there is no way her father is alive. She suddenly finds out that Galen is not only alive, but he is literally asking her to help him destroy the Death Star. I've mentioned how emotional the hologram scene is... I don't think that it's totally out of the question that after her emotional break down, she changes her priorities to finding and helping her father.

Fast forward to Eadu when Galen dies. He tells Jyn that they "must destroy it." And she tells him "I know, we will." Her mission now is to fulfill her father's dying wish, no matter what.

So now - she hates the Empire, she hates Krennic and wants revenge for what he did to her family, and she needs to fulfill Galen's mission. Personally, I think that is enough motivation for her to try and inspire the Rebels to steal those plans. Just me though.

 

[tzznandrew]

Spoiler: Regarding this

Her turn comes as soon as she watches Galen's hologram message. She had a pretty deep connection to her father, and at the beginning of the film, she probably thinks that there is no way her father is alive. She suddenly finds out that Galen is not only alive, but he is literally asking her to help him destroy the Death Star. I've mentioned how emotional the hologram scene is... I don't think that it's totally out of the question that after her emotional break down, she changes her priorities to finding and helping her father.

Fast forward to Eadu when Galen dies. He tells Jyn that they "must destroy it." And she tells him "I know, we will." Her mission now is to fulfill her father's dying wish, no matter what.

So now - she hates the Empire, she hates Krennic and wants revenge for what he did to her family, and she needs to fulfill Galen's mission. Personally, I think that is enough motivation for her to try and inspire the Rebels to steal those plans. Just me though.

Spoiler

Largely agree, but I think they either should have cut out the early scene with her as a child (too short to really develop much) or have expanded it so that we got a sense of their relationship more. I mean, Luke had more screen time with Owen and Beru than Jyn did with Galen. Or have spent more time with Forrest Whitaker when she was a little younger so that his death becomes transitively connected more directly and clearly to Galen's. Either of those would have helped.

I thought the movie was good, but the early part was cluttered and didn't develop the characters as well as it could have.

 

[FeedTheDove]

Spoiler

Largely agree, but I think they either should have cut out the early scene with her as a child (too short to really develop much) or have expanded it so that we got a sense of their relationship more. I mean, Luke had more screen time with Owen and Beru than Jyn did with Galen. Or have spent more time with Forrest Whitaker when she was a little younger so that his death becomes transitively connected more directly and clearly to Galen's. Either of those would have helped.

I thought the movie was good, but the early part was cluttered and didn't develop the characters as well as it could have.

Spoiler

I agree with you that the characters could have been more developed. In fact, there were more Saw scenes filmed that were cut, and these were scenes where Saw was bald, i.e. when Jyn was a younger child. So, you're pretty spot on there.

This is going to be the challenge though, for the rest of the Star Wars stand alone films. They need to find a way to introduce new characters, provide them with the proper exposition so that we care about them, but also not bore us to hell in the first half of the movie. You're right, the story would have benefited if most of the main characters were expanded upon, the problem is that the movie doesn't have time for that. We'd likely end up with a 3-hour movie if each character was expanded upon properly. I'm fine with that, but no one else is.

The first half of R1 is already pretty slow, and is probably considered boring to most of the people who aren't interested in backstory/lore. Adding more exposition to that would be extremely difficult.

I don't agree with you that the early Jyn flashback scene should have been cut. As someone who read Catalyst before seeing the movie, I feel it is one of the most important scenes to explain her family's backstory and their connection to Krennic. If you read the book, the scene lines up pretty perfectly to where the story ends. I really enjoyed seeing that. For instance, in the book, Galen's wife Lyra HATES Krennic. Even when Galen and Krennic were working together, she couldn't stand him. It was awesome to see her point that gun at Krennic... as it was something I was waiting to see throughout the entire story of Catalyst.

 

[tzznandrew]

Spoiler

I agree with you that the characters could have been more developed. In fact, there were more Saw scenes filmed that were cut, and these were scenes where Saw was bald, i.e. when Jyn was a younger child. So, you're pretty spot on there.

This is going to be the challenge though, for the rest of the Star Wars stand alone films. They need to find a way to introduce new characters, provide them with the proper exposition so that we care about them, but also not bore us to hell in the first half of the movie. You're right, the story would have benefited if most of the main characters were expanded upon, the problem is that the movie doesn't have time for that. We'd likely end up with a 3-hour movie if each character was expanded upon properly. I'm fine with that, but no one else is.

The first half of R1 is already pretty slow, and is probably considered boring to most of the people who aren't interested in backstory/lore. Adding more exposition to that would be extremely difficult.

I don't agree with you that the early Jyn flashback scene should have been cut. As someone who read Catalyst before seeing the movie, I feel it is one of the most important scenes to explain her family's backstory and their connection to Krennic. If you read the book, the scene lines up pretty perfectly to where the story ends. I really enjoyed seeing that. For instance, in the book, Galen's wife Lyra HATES Krennic. Even when Galen and Krennic were working together, she couldn't stand him. It was awesome to see her point that gun at Krennic... as it was something I was waiting to see throughout the entire story of Catalyst.

Spoiler

I actually don't even think you need to expand on all their backstories. We got precious little about Han or Leia in A New Hope. Like I said earlier, the fact that they got little is, I think, a feature not a bug.

But the movie wanted us to like and care for the Jyn-Galen relationship, but didn't really do enough to earn it.

 

[FeedTheDove]

Spoiler

But the movie wanted us to like and care for the Jyn-Galen relationship, but didn't really do enough to earn it.

I agree with that. I think their backstory from the book is just ingrained in my mind so I find their relationship in the movie more emotionally satisfying. But I can see how others who didn't have that backstory might feel annoyed.

Starting to wonder when we can let up on the spoiler tags lol. I mean, if you haven't seen Rogue One at this point, do you really care about Star Wars?

 

[8893]

Starting to wonder when we can let up on the spoiler tags lol. I mean, if you haven't seen Rogue One at this point, do you really care about Star Wars?

Per my Star Wars-crazed daughter, seven days after the release was the point after which spoilers were allowed.