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For me it's the spaceships. Yeah I know.
Rogue One
- Thread starter Tommyboy
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For me it's the spaceships. Yeah I know.
huskypantz
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Just finished reading Catalyst. I enjoyed it and it really adds more context to R1. I still prefer seeing R1 before reading the book, but it helps explain why Lyra acted the way she did and gives you insight into the Tarkin/Krennic relationship. Off to read Tarkin next.
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Plan to read that one soon as well!
junglehusky
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In one of the reports leading up to R1 I think Kathleen Kennedy said the standalones would be about non-Skywalker bloodline stories in the SW universe. So ... no Vader, because he is a Skywalker.
OK, so I watched R1 for the second time this weekend. I picked up a few notes I kind of missed...
It's been >3 weeks, so we can stop using spoiler tags right? Anwyay - SPOILER WARNING-
...
The first time I watched I totally missed the argument for why to go to Eadu. Or, it went in one ear and out the other. Jyn needed to provide confirmation of the information from Galen to the alliance because nobody had seen the hologram except her and Saw, and I think I had been distracted by other stuff the first time I watched.
One thing that still doesn't make sense is why Saw was just like "cool, you guys get off planet and I'll just hang back and die". For no reason. C'mon, make him war weary, or give him some noble suicide mission, or have that outpost on Jeddha be his childhood home he refuses to leave like a cantankerous old curmudgeon townie when the big hurricane is bearing down. Or at least give him a ship to jump onto that gets hit by a giant boulder or something.
The other thing that I didn't connect was that Tarkin is explicitly told that Krennic is at the base in Scarif, and then later destroys the base, in the process killing his rival. This could have been played up a little in the script. Let Tarkin have information of what the rebels are trying to accomplish, which is tied to the shield going down so they can get the signal transmitted (by the way... the shield blocks data transmissions from a big, presumably high powered radio dish on top of a tower, but audio goes through the shield with no problem? There was some radio communication between the Alliance ships and troops on the ground... right?). Once the shield goes down, Tarkin has cover to act. Destroying an Imperial facility should have been presented as a last resort, but still logical course of action for Tarkin. Have his subordinates object "but there are thousands of our troops at the base! and Director Krennic is on the platform!" and then Tarkin has a bad-ass quip about the rebellion being stopped at all costs or something.
On second thought... at this point Tarkin does not know that the rebels are in possession of the plans, or does he? Maybe he suspects it. And I might have to watch a third time - he knows the rebels want the plans, but does either he or Krennic know that Galen baked in the vulnerability? All they know about is the pilot and Galen. Hmmm... In any case, we could have used a more dramatic moment for this decision. Maybe in between R1 and Ep IV Tarkin gets is ass chewed out for blowing up Scarif, the way the Captain in 80's cop movies chews out the renegade cop....
And on other note. I didn't think CGI Tarkin was quite right in 3D. When I watched again I went to a 2D show and hoped it wouldn't be as bad... but it was still kind of in the uncanny valley. His cheeks were cartoonishly hollowed out and it made me feel like I was seeing a character from SW Rebels with slightly higher resolution texturing. Well, maybe not quite that bad, but it didn't quite ring correct. Almost there. I did have a much bigger lump in my throat when CGI Carrie Fisher was onscreen after her passing.
Oh and Vader's castle... the interior was fine, but could they not have ripped off LOTR on the exterior? LOL...
Marvel has produced an excellent (ultra rare for their print material these days) comic series that follows that very story. My kids kept telling me how good it is so I read it myself and enjoyed it very much.
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Yeah, I read the first few issues last year. Really good story. Vader has two homicidal droid helpers and an assistant.
intlzncster
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Who answers letters and gets him coffee?
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Espresso machine built into his carapace.
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First thing that popped into my head when they showed the exterior of Vader's castle was "Sauron's summer palace."
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My first thought was that Alfred was at work somewhere in there.
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For those of you interested, they've just released the title to Episode 8:
I'll start a thread for that once it gets closer to release date. Still 11 months to go
I'll start a thread for that once it gets closer to release date. Still 11 months to go
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For those of you interested, they've just released the title to Episode 8:
I'll start a thread for that once it gets closer to release date. Still 11 months to go
Hmm. Not sure I like this title.
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Love it.
intlzncster
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That was my first reaction. "Great, there goes future Jedi-centric installments".
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Couple of things...
The Force Awakens was, in many ways, the search for Luke Skywalker. Luke Skywalker is the last Jedi at this point in the story. We are about the see a movie where he is prominently featured. The title isn't telling us anything we don't already know - they might as well call it Luke Skywalker. It doesn't have to mean that this is 'the last film focused on the Jedi' or that the Jedi are going to be gone after this film. That's called speculation - it's interesting and fun to do but it should never ruin your enjoyment of what actually happens.
With that being said let's speculate that the title does hint at the end of the Jedi. It honestly wouldn't be too surprising to me from a pure story-driven point of view. Over the past year I have taken a full-on nose dive into all the new canon Star Wars material and one of the many things that stands out to me is the concept of non-Jedi, non-Sith characters who are strong with the force. See: Ezra Bridger, Rey, Ahsoka, Chirrut Imwe, the Bendu, the Father, Daughter, and Son from TCW. These are all examples of characters that are extremely powerful with the force but aren't categorized as Jedi or Sith (Ezra later becomes a Jedi, Rey likely will become a Jedi). It seems like the story group is making a conscious effort to create new stories about powerful force sensitive characters that don't have to be labeled as Jedi or Sith in order to expand our knowledge of the force.
There is more to the force than just what the Jedi and Sith teach - we learned from the prequels that the Jedi philosophy is not always flawless. They were largely the cause of their own downfall in the PT. So, I guess what I am saying is if they decided to move the future of Star Wars in a direction that doesn't involve Jedi or Sith, it wouldn't surprise me too much, but it also it doesn't mean there won't be lightsabers and badass force powers. If anything, we'll expand our knowledge of the force and see new powers that we didn't even think were possible. Do I think they would go that direction? Eh, not really. There's too much money to be made because of how legendary the word Jedi has become.
The Force Awakens was, in many ways, the search for Luke Skywalker. Luke Skywalker is the last Jedi at this point in the story. We are about the see a movie where he is prominently featured. The title isn't telling us anything we don't already know - they might as well call it Luke Skywalker. It doesn't have to mean that this is 'the last film focused on the Jedi' or that the Jedi are going to be gone after this film. That's called speculation - it's interesting and fun to do but it should never ruin your enjoyment of what actually happens.
With that being said let's speculate that the title does hint at the end of the Jedi. It honestly wouldn't be too surprising to me from a pure story-driven point of view. Over the past year I have taken a full-on nose dive into all the new canon Star Wars material and one of the many things that stands out to me is the concept of non-Jedi, non-Sith characters who are strong with the force. See: Ezra Bridger, Rey, Ahsoka, Chirrut Imwe, the Bendu, the Father, Daughter, and Son from TCW. These are all examples of characters that are extremely powerful with the force but aren't categorized as Jedi or Sith (Ezra later becomes a Jedi, Rey likely will become a Jedi). It seems like the story group is making a conscious effort to create new stories about powerful force sensitive characters that don't have to be labeled as Jedi or Sith in order to expand our knowledge of the force.
There is more to the force than just what the Jedi and Sith teach - we learned from the prequels that the Jedi philosophy is not always flawless. They were largely the cause of their own downfall in the PT. So, I guess what I am saying is if they decided to move the future of Star Wars in a direction that doesn't involve Jedi or Sith, it wouldn't surprise me too much, but it also it doesn't mean there won't be lightsabers and badass force powers. If anything, we'll expand our knowledge of the force and see new powers that we didn't even think were possible. Do I think they would go that direction? Eh, not really. There's too much money to be made because of how legendary the word Jedi has become.
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Yeah, there definitely seems to be a push to "democratize" the force. Each trilogy seems to have a different vision for how it relates to the characters.
I want to read the Rogue One prequel finally. But I am reading the new Michael Lewis book first.
huskypantz
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I just started the canon "fodder". Got through Catalyst and Tarkin, I especially enjoyed the latter. Lords of the Sith is next after I get through TFA (got it for free).
You touch on an interesting point about non-traditional characters with force abilities that I think warrants more development. One of the hallmarks of the Jedi is the almost priest-like separation from relationships and romance. The majority of characters in the prequels are solo acts. And yet.....a healthy stable of padawan existed until Anakin turned. I believe that while the strength of the force in an individual has proven to be genetic, it also seems to manifest as a somewhat recessive trait. Otherwise how would so many Jedi have existed previously? They may have seen their own Khmer Rouge-style cleansing at the hands of Sidious, but I believe that time will reveal more individuals strong in the force. I guess the question really focuses around whether there is a Master around to teach them the craft sufficiently to warrant the Jedi label, versus someone applying their skills for parlor games and cheap thrills.
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One of the most misunderstood concepts in the Star Wars universe is how the force flows through individuals. Some fans like to think that you are either 'force-sensitive' or you aren't. If you're force-sensitive, you get to do cool Jedi things like force pushing objects, levitating objects, fighting with a lightsaber, etc...
The new canon is trying to do away with that type of thinking. They're trying to do away with the thought that Jedi and Sith are the only beings that can do extraordinary things. They're trying to do away with the thought that if you aren't born 'force-sensitive,' you'll never be able to manipulate the force like a Jedi.
Yoda said it himself in Empire: "Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."
The force flows through everyone. There is no such thing as 'force-sensitivity.' Every being in the galaxy is able to feel the force in their own way. Now - this doesn't mean that everyone gets to manipulate the force like a Jedi would. It simply means the potential is there for everyone.
The reason I bring up this up is because some think that if the Jedi Order 'ends,' then that means Star Wars ceases to be interesting. The Jedi are just a group with a particular philosophy about life and the force who have mastered their ability to connect with the force. If the Jedi Order does 'end,' we could potentially be seeing a new generation of Jedi-like beings who build off of the mistakes of both the Jedi and Sith, and develop their own philosophies through refined sight. And this refined sight could allow them to master abilities with the force that even the Jedi were unaware of. Lucasfilm really has a crazy amount of different directions that they can take this story; it's exciting.
The new canon is trying to do away with that type of thinking. They're trying to do away with the thought that Jedi and Sith are the only beings that can do extraordinary things. They're trying to do away with the thought that if you aren't born 'force-sensitive,' you'll never be able to manipulate the force like a Jedi.
Yoda said it himself in Empire: "Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."
The force flows through everyone. There is no such thing as 'force-sensitivity.' Every being in the galaxy is able to feel the force in their own way. Now - this doesn't mean that everyone gets to manipulate the force like a Jedi would. It simply means the potential is there for everyone.
The reason I bring up this up is because some think that if the Jedi Order 'ends,' then that means Star Wars ceases to be interesting. The Jedi are just a group with a particular philosophy about life and the force who have mastered their ability to connect with the force. If the Jedi Order does 'end,' we could potentially be seeing a new generation of Jedi-like beings who build off of the mistakes of both the Jedi and Sith, and develop their own philosophies through refined sight. And this refined sight could allow them to master abilities with the force that even the Jedi were unaware of. Lucasfilm really has a crazy amount of different directions that they can take this story; it's exciting.
intlzncster
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These posts are always interesting, because I don't read much background outside of the movies (probably should).
From what I would have thought, the potential isn't there for everyone though. If you put some random person through Jedi training, they wouldn't be able to do the same things, no? What about Midi-chlorian count and all that stuff?
I kind of like light saber wielding monks in robes. That's important to my Star Wars ethos. It's sort of like removing the Samurai from a Japanese 17th century Japanese war movie. All your left with is generals and soldiers.
Gotta have Jedi. Just the idea of having Luke being a hermit in self imposed exile on an island on some distant planet was great stuff.
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I'm glad you asked that.
The story group seems to have made a conscious effort to make it obvious that all beings have the potential to manipulate the force in a powerful way. But you're right in asking then, why aren't more beings powerful with the force then? I've been thinking about that for a while. Most beings in the galaxy probably don't even believe in the force. This is why I believe there are particular factors that ultimately decide how well someone can manipulate the force. I have had 3 factors in mind:
- Midichlorian Count - Like it or not, this concept is canon, and there's a reason for it. Midichlorians are what connect the living force with the cosmic force. They allow beings to communicate with the force, and eventually, manipulate the force. If you have an extremely high midichlorian count, like Anakin, you have a lot of potential to be a powerful force user. It is akin to a person being born with innate athletic ability. This doesn't mean that you will end up becoming a powerful force user. Much like if an athlete doesn't work on his skills to polish his game, if a being doesn't train to manipulate the force, he/she won't be able to. Which leads me to...
- Proper Training - The Jedi of the PT Era had ample access to the proper training to learn how to manipulate the force. They had a Temple full of the greatest Jedi in the galaxy to learn from. It's no wonder that these beings were incredibly powerful with the force.
- Belief in/Dedication to the Force - "'I don't believe it.' 'That is why you fail.'" This is fairly straight forward. The more faith and trust somebody puts into the force, the stronger their connection to the force will be. Luke begins to trust the force when he blows up the DS in ANH.
I'm sure there are more, these are just the few I had in mind. If you're interested in learning more about how the force works, do yourself a favor and watch the 4-episode Yoda arc in season 6 of The Clone Wars. It's on Netflix.
As for the Jedi order possibly disappearing after 8/9,
The Jedi Order wouldn't end, it would evolve and mature.
junglehusky
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An analysis of writing and character development comparing Ep VII and Rogue One, I thought it was more or less accurate:
Penfield
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That was a very reasonable take on both. I found both movies to be enjoyable but neither are without their flaws. Without the nostalgia Star Wars factor I wonder how much I would enjoy both movies.
As a Star Wars fan I think I enjoyed Rogue One better because it was different, expanded the lore, and it had a rad space battle. If I had never seen a Star Wars movie before I think I would have preferred The Force Awakens because the characters were better.
intlzncster
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But you can't really look at it like that. While they tried to make stand alone movies, these things are inherently made with the idea that you've seen the others. I mean, the writers can't erase those past movies from their minds, so inference automatically bleeds in. Add to that that they are trying to tie these movies in at the same time....
And let's be honest. All the movies have their flaws (yes even Empire). And these two weren't remotely the most flawed of the bunch.