Requiem for the Big East

[ecasadoSBU]

Honestly, both leagues suck. There is no way Providence would make a conference tournament final in a league with decent depth. The only reason they are in the dance is they never had to face UConn, UL, Cuse, Pitt, Cinci, or for that matter Memphis. Yeah, the bottom of the AAC suuuucks, but so does the NNNBE's bottom. I want nothing to do with any of those schools, aside from taking Nova out of the tournament. We have to tough it out in the AAC for a few years, keep both bball programs successful, get the football program to a reasonably high level and hope to God the ACC or Big Ten come calling before the athletic department runs out of money.

I dont get it though. How is a league that according to Warren Nolan has the 4th best Conference RPI can be compared to the other that has the eight best RPI. How is that close. You have the ACC, Atlantic-10, and SEC sandwiched in between them. To say that the present Big East is the same as the American Athletic is dishonest. The problem with the Big East is that it had two great teams in the regular season (both which had better seeding in the NCAA than the top AAC teams) and then several teams in them middle of the pack. But the bottom of the Big East is absolutely way better than the AAC. Lets no lie to ourselves here. I don't see the reason why we should deny the undeniable.

Granted, this means nothing because at the end of the day we have to see the results in the next few days. But the Big East has demonstrated that it is a better RPI conference in the regular season. Lets get over this silly argument. We will support Connecticut wherever it goes, but no need to lie about the current situation of the league. When Louisville leaves, its only getting worst. The AAC will never enjoy stability because no one really wants to be here, the Big East has positioned it self in a situation in which it can guarantee stability and growth for its teams for at least the next 12 years, not bad if you tell me. It will never be what it was, but whatever it has left its guaranteed till the mid 2020's

Top of Big East

1 Villanova 5
2 Creighton 10


Top of AAC:

1 Louisville 19
2 Cincy 21

Bottom of Big East:

8 Seton Hall 128
9 Butler 150
10 DePaul 154



Bottom of AAC (RPI):

8 UCF 220
8 Temple 175
10 South Florida 231

 

[Fishy]

Long term, both conferences are mid-majors.

AAC, Mountain West, Big East, Atlantic 10 are all heading towards expensive irrelevance.

It's written in stone - the power 5 conferences have consolidated so much in such a short time. They'll never stop coming - cost of attendance is just the first stone they'll tie around the lesser conferences' necks.

The only salvation is escape to a power 5 conference.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

Biggest irony is that the Big East made ESPN what it is and ESPN tore it apart. It's a real tragedy. Things would be totally different if 3 basketball schools didn't block PSU. I'm guessing it was Villanova, whose trustees killed 1A football on 81, Saint Johns and Georgetown.

It really sucks. I'm fairly young, only 23, so I learned that yesterday. It would have made a HUGE difference to have PennState in the conference. I had no idea this was ever considered so it was a fun fact to know. How in the world did the league administrators choose Pitt and not PSU. That would've been a huge add. Its crazy how one bad move can make or break a business.

Penn State, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Rutgers, Connecticut, Temple could've been the perfect Northeast league that I still hope to see under my lifetime ( I have a strong sense of Northeast pride, sorry boys if ya hate BCU and CUse). what a shame though

 

[ecasadoSBU]

Long term, both conferences are mid-majors.

AAC, Mountain West, Big East, Atlantic 10 are all heading towards expensive irrelevance.

It's written in stone - the power 5 conferences have consolidated so much in such a short time. They'll never stop coming - cost of attendance is just the first stone they'll tie around the lesser conferences' necks.

The only salvation is escape to a power 5 conference.

Fishy, what do you think is the future of the non-football conferences? do you think they will eventually break away entirely? or just a wait around until they slowly fade away?

 

[NotreDameJoe]

If you want to find the center of every fatal decision the Big East ever made, you'll find Pitt.

This is what I've been searching for, for years; on the internet anyway. I want to know who's bright idea it was to reject the proposed ESPN contract that would have a Grant of Rights and stabilized the Big East for a decade.

I suspect that man was rejecting the Big East more than the net $.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

If you want to find the center of every fatal decision the Big East ever made, you'll find Pitt.

Nah. Miami and ESPN.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This is what I've been searching for, for years; on the internet anyway. I want to know who's bright idea it was to reject the proposed ESPN contract that would have a Grant of Rights and stabilized the Big East for a decade.

I suspect that man was rejecting the Big East more than the net $.

It was a very bright idea if you look at the math. Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Syracuse, TCU and Louisville ended up getting about 2x what ESPN was offering, and the C7 schools ended up getting about 2.5x. Only UConn, USF and Cincinnati lost out by telling ESPN to buzz off.

 

[captainron2]

It was a very bright idea if you look at the math. Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Syracuse, TCU and Louisville ended up getting about 2x what ESPN was offering, and the C7 schools ended up getting about 2.5x. Only UConn, USF and Cincinnati lost out by telling ESPN to buzz off.

Yea, but the thing that pisses me off was Pitt urging everyone to reject the deal, when they already knew they were leaving. They knew, and intentionally screwed everyone else. Nothing is more slimy than that.

 

[upstater]

Fishy, what do you think is the future of the non-football conferences? do you think they will eventually break away entirely? or just a wait around until they slowly fade away?

Death by lack of $$$. When the money difference becomes too much for the smaller schools to bear, they'll lose players and relevance, and when they lose players, they'll lose their TV contracts and fade away. At that point, the only thing that might save the non-power schools is the NCAA losing a lawsuit to the likes of J Kessler.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Yea, but the thing that pisses me off was Pitt urging everyone to reject the deal, when they already knew they were leaving. They knew, and intentionally screwed everyone else. Nothing is more slimy than that.

They didn't screw everyone else. Just about everyone else did great by turning down that ESPN lowball offer.

The only schools that got screwed were Cincinnati, South Florida and UConn, and ESPN was the one that did the screwing. ESPN is the one responsible for UConn's current conference predicament, no one else.

 

[TRest]

It was a very bright idea if you look at the math. Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Syracuse, TCU and Louisville ended up getting about 2x what ESPN was offering, and the C7 schools ended up getting about 2.5x. Only UConn, USF and Cincinnati lost out by telling ESPN to buzz off.

What would the C7 schools received from that ESPN offer? Less than the football schools but was it more than what Fox is paying them now?

 

[captainron2]

They didn't screw everyone else. Just about everyone else did great by turning down that ESPN lowball offer.

The only schools that got screwed were Cincinnati, South Florida and UConn, and ESPN was the one that did the screwing. ESPN is the one responsible for UConn's current conference predicament, no one else.

They didn't know that it would work out for most of the schools in the end. All they knew was they were convincing people to give up a sure thing because they said everyone would get more. Some did, not everybody.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

They didn't know that it would work out for most of the schools in the end. All they knew was they were convincing people to give up a sure thing because they said everyone would get more. Some did, not everybody.

I wonder if they had enough votes to override Pitt/Syr and take the deal. That would put the ball in their court and announce that they were leaving for the ACC before they knew the ACC would take them.

I doubt anyone will ever sort out all the drama that went on.

 

[peeps]

What would the C7 schools received from that ESPN offer? Less than the football schools but was it more than what Fox is paying them now?

not even close. their current tv deal is worth nearly 300% more than the ESPN deal would have been. most of that is to offset the $70M in assets given up for the name and MSG.

 

[upstater]

not even close. their current tv deal is worth nearly 300% more than the ESPN deal would have been. most of that is to offset the $70M in assets given up for the name and MSG.

Uh, no. Wrong. Heck, the current deal is only 200% more than the AAC's. You actually believe the AAC's deal would be almost double the old Big East's? Crazy.

 

[peeps]

providence was getting ~$1.4M per year in the old big east. before the BE expands presumably to 12 teams they are getting ~$4.16M. that is ~300% more than the last deal. it can go up to $5M/yr if they expand to 12 teams. i have no idea what you are getting now with 10 teams that also play football.

and i love how "only 200%" is thrown in there.

you seem to think i'm denigrating you. i'm really just saying that this is a much more lucrative conference for current BE schools than what they were getting in that football monster... and that is ironic.

 

[upstater]

providence was getting ~$1.4M per year in the old big east. before the BE expands presumably to 12 teams they are getting ~$4.16M. that is ~300% more than the last deal. it can go up to $5M/yr if they expand to 12 teams. i have no idea what you are getting now with 10 teams that also play football.

and i love how "only 200%" is thrown in there.

you seem to think i'm denigrating you. i'm really just saying that this is a much more lucrative conference for current BE schools than what they were getting in that football monster... and that is ironic.

Holy cow, this is what you wrote: their current tv deal is worth nearly 300% more than the ESPN deal would have been.

This whole discussion is about the vote on the ESPN proposal for $13.5 million per football team (which includes the bball numbers). Try to follow along next time.

 

[TRest]

Holy cow, this is what you wrote: their current tv deal is worth nearly 300% more than the ESPN deal would have been.

This whole discussion is about the vote on the ESPN proposal for $13.5 million per football team (which includes the bball numbers). Try to follow along next time.

Exactly. What would Providence have made in the contract that was voted down as opposed to what it makes from Fox? Everybody keeps using the old BE number of a million or so per year and compares that to the Fox number.

 

[peeps]

my apologies. ONLY 200% more than the basketball schools would have gotten. still a bad move as far as you're concerned i suppose.

 

[peeps]

Exactly. What would Providence have made in the contract that was voted down as opposed to what it makes from Fox? Everybody keeps using the old BE number of a million or so per year and compares that to the Fox number.

the ESPN report had the football schools at "nearly $14M/yr" and the average annual value at $130M per year for the whole conference. the 8 basketball schools would have gotten ~$2.25M per year in that deal as opposed to $4.16-5M. that difference is a coach's salary.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Yea, but the thing that pisses me off was Pitt urging everyone to reject the deal, when they already knew they were leaving. They knew, and intentionally screwed everyone else. Nothing is more slimy than that.

Holy cow, this is what you wrote: their current tv deal is worth nearly 300% more than the ESPN deal would have been.

This whole discussion is about the vote on the ESPN proposal for $13.5 million per football team (which includes the bball numbers). Try to follow along next time.

What was the breakdown between football and basketball in the original 13.5mm offer?
The difference between that offer and the fox deal would how much better the NBE is doing with Fox.
The NBE got a great deal from Fox looking to compete with ESPN.

 

[PRHusky]

the ESPN report had the football schools at "nearly $14M/yr" and the average annual value at $130M per year for the whole conference. the 8 basketball schools would have gotten ~$2.25M per year in that deal as opposed to $4.16-5M. that difference is a coach's salary.

Yes, but at least the C7 would have had a TV audience. That has to count for something. Most of the nation will be watching C7 teams this week for the very first time this season.

 

[peeps]

on ESPN3? no thanks.

 

[peeps]

captainron2 said: ↑
Yea, but the thing that pisses me off was Pitt urging everyone to reject the deal, when they already knew they were leaving. They knew, and intentionally screwed everyone else. Nothing is more slimy than that.

boston college.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

Yes, but at least the C7 would have had a TV audience. That has to count for something. Most of the nation will be watching C7 teams this week for the very first time this season.

You gotta give Fox Sports 1 some time. Fox bought rights to the MLB, FIFA World Cup, MLS, and also shows PAC12 and BIG12 football. I think viewership can only go up as they become more competitive vs. ESPN. ESPN will obviously always remain the network of choice, but Fox has money to blow and they will compete. The Big East can only benefit of such exclusive college basketball contract

with that said... The Big East already lost a team tonight (Xavier)... If they cant compete with the big boys then this whole experiment will fail