Requiem for the Big East

[upstater]

I am tired of hearing all the complaining about UCONN not getting respect. Let's earn respect from our actions moving forward and $%&! everyone else.

Will UConn earn it after the 4th or 5th NCAA championship? Mayeb it will take 6? 5 not enough?

 

[UConn9604]

What is the purpose of the alleged movie conspiracy against UConn exactly? I enjoyed the documentary and thought it was a pretty good re-telling of the founding and meteoric rise of the BE, then money related fall. If you weren't around in 1980's you likely missed the fact that the entire conference came out of nowhere and dominated in a loud way. The Mount Rushmore of BE players is Mullin, Ewing and Pearl, that doesn't mean those are the best players, they were the founding father's that vaulted the conference to prominence so that UConn could happen later. The UConn story is a great story, but the documentary was about the rise and fall of the BE and UConn was a minor player both times (barely made it in, collateral damage on the demise). The only thing that makes less sense than the anti-UConn paranoia conspiracy reaction would be if Louie Carneseca's dentist had bought advertising during the program.

I don't understand the use of the word "collateral." As I can see it, we're the only party that has truly suffered any damage. Cincinnati is right back where it was before it joined the Big East, USF had a moment in the sun, UCF is tickled with the thought of making the Fiesta Bowl, Louisville played with house money and upped its hand, and Syracuse, Pitt and BC still suck, but suck with more money. Oh, and the Catholics are getting paid more to not get their [blank]s kicked by us than they did when they got their [blank]s kicked by us.

The only program that is hemorrhaging right now just happens to be the best program in the history of that league. Our meteoric rise in nearly every sport, coupled with the fact that we're now adrift and no one has even thought to put us on the back of a milk carton or on a sign at the post office, is probably worthy of its own 30 for 30, frankly.

 

[sledog]

Was this 'history event' on TV? Replay stored someplce??

 

[8893]

Was this 'history event' on TV? Replay stored someplce??

I believe it can be found in the historical fiction section of your on-demand listings.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I don't understand the use of the word "collateral." As I can see it, we're the only party that has truly suffered any damage. Cincinnati is right back where it was before it joined the Big East, USF had a moment in the sun, UCF is tickled with the thought of making the Fiesta Bowl, Louisville played with house money and upped its hand, and Syracuse, Pitt and BC still suck, but suck with more money. Oh, and the Catholics are getting paid more to not get their [blank]s kicked by us than they did when they got their [blank]s kicked by us.

The only program that is hemorrhaging right now just happens to be the best program in the history of that league. Our meteoric rise in nearly every sport, coupled with the fact that we're now adrift and no one has even thought to put us on the back of a milk carton or on a sign at the post office, is probably worthy of its own 30 for 30, frankly.

I'm a UConn graduate and fan, but I will take the devil's advocate role to explain use of the word collateral
A. UConn wasn't the most powerful BBall school in the conference at the time conference was founded based mostly on BBall and TV markets. Many stories say Gavitt had to argue for UConn's inclusion. Jim Calhoun even told you in the documentary that play in the BE was #1 recruiting tactic back in those days, not 'play for the storied program of UConn'. That came later, BE was the horse that pulled us up.
B. Then likewise with football at the time of the conference's demise UConn Football was on the way up, but not established and clearly the football program's recent years underline that football was shaky. BC and Syracuse were the football programs the other conferences wanted.
C. ALL of BE Basketball was collateral damage for the football $. It doesn't matter that UConn women's hoop is/was by far the BE's best and men's hoop among the best, arguably the best. Basketball was of lesser concern (collateral doesn't mean none, it means less and sometimes can be an astonishingly large number, for example; 'The North's soldier losses were merely collateral damage that General Grant was willing to sacrifice.').

I think its debatable that UConn is the best program in the history of the BE. We sucked 1981-1987. Since then by any definition the best two basketball teams, program has had its ups and downs though.

 

[upstater]

I think its debatable that UConn is the best program in the history of the BE. We sucked 1981-1987. Since then by any definition the best two basketball teams, program has had its ups and downs though.

Uh, I'd say UConn sucked 1983-1987. It might depend on your definition of suck but 20 wins and 8-6 BE record in 1981 and then a 7-7 BE record in 1982. They were decent to mediocre in 1982. In 1981 they were actually good.

Many teams have had a longer period of suckage.

 

[UConn9604]

I think its debatable that UConn is the best program in the history of the BE. We sucked 1981-1987. Since then by any definition the best two basketball teams, program has had its ups and downs though.

All reasonable points, except this. No one had more tournament titles (only Georgetown tied) and, well, the number of national titles speaks for itself (unless you run a major sports network or a conference with teams that are 0-3 against us in the Final Four).

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I am tired of hearing all the complaining about UCONN not getting respect. Let's earn respect from our actions moving forward and $%&! everyone else.

I'm no conspiracy theorist but UConn's treatment by ESPN has been Bizarre.
Maybe they are minimizing us to keep us from leaving the AAC damaging their minimal investment.
Especially if we leave for a non ESPN network. If we left for the B1G it wouldn't only destroy whats left of the AAC's credibility, it could hurt their pet's investment's NE strategy.
Or maybe ESPN doesn't care about money,but since they are an in state entity they want to avoid any charges of favoritism damaging their pristine reputation.
I've been around a long time the coincidences point to a UConn strategy and marketing strategy is never fueled by pragmatism.
It is fueled by money or power.Unfortunately short term profit motives lead to long term disaster ,for both the investsor ,but more importantly for the investment(UConn)

 

[SirHypeAlot]

Having read through the first 20 comments on this thread i'm pleased i avoided this documentary. After getting shafted with the 7 seed and our conference disrespected across the board i wouldn't have been able to stomach all of this.

 

[Dogdeacon]

All reasonable points, except this. No one had more tournament titles (only Georgetown tied) and, well, the number of national titles speaks for itself (unless you run a major sports network or a conference with teams that are 0-3 against us in the Final Four).

I agree, best basketball team is definitely debatable and maybe UConn is it. Doesn't matter though and only proof we need is the conference UConn got stuck in.
I think the notion that ESPN produces a documentary and purposefully instructs the filmmaker to downplay UConn because doing otherwise might impact building other team brands down the road is ludicrous. Now maybe its possible that someone editing the film cut out UConn parts partially due to some personal bias, but to think it is a network conspiracy is NUTS.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Uh, I'd say UConn sucked 1983-1987. It might depend on your definition of suck but 20 wins and 8-6 BE record in 1981 and then a 7-7 BE record in 1982. They were decent to mediocre in 1982. In 1981 they were actually good.

Many teams have had a longer period of suckage.

I mistyped, I meant 83-87. But actually if you look at conference record it took a couple more years to get out of the 8-9 game. I'm very familiar with the dates as I've always 'prided' myself on the fact that the worst 4 years in the history of UConn basketball were my four years as a student. A fan was forged in enduring that pain.

 

[UConn9604]

I agree, best basketball team is definitely debatable and maybe UConn is it. Doesn't matter though and only proof we need is the conference UConn got stuck in.
I think the notion that ESPN produces a documentary and purposefully instructs the filmmaker to downplay UConn because doing otherwise might impact building other team brands down the road is ludicrous. Now maybe its possible that someone editing the film cut out UConn parts partially due to some personal bias, but to think it is a network conspiracy is NUTS.

I don't think there's a big conspiracy by the makers of this movie.

I think they basically wrote a documentary about Abraham Lincoln that skipped over the Civil War, and then gave John Wilkes Booth the rights to air it.

 

[superjohn]

It's debatable whether UConn is the best team in the Big East?!?? What the hell are you guys talking about.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I don't think there's a big conspiracy by the makers of this movie.

I think they basically wrote a documentary about Abraham Lincoln that skipped over the Civil War, and then gave John Wilkes Booth the rights to air it.

Great analogy! So if I'm following your logic correctly, in this instance UConn is the Civil War and ESPN is John Wilkes Booth! I've heard that a lot before, it definitely doesn't seem like paranoid conspiracy thinking at all.

 

[upstater]

I agree, best basketball team is definitely debatable and maybe UConn is it. Doesn't matter though and only proof we need is the conference UConn got stuck in.
I think the notion that ESPN produces a documentary and purposefully instructs the filmmaker to downplay UConn because doing otherwise might impact building other team brands down the road is ludicrous. Now maybe its possible that someone editing the film cut out UConn parts partially due to some personal bias, but to think it is a network conspiracy is NUTS.

It's a conspiracy in the film maker's mind. He's a Georgetown guy.

Think about G'town fans for a minute. When they had guys like Michael Graham, they won (and lost) big games. Then they hired a actor to coach them, and from 1989 through 2007, they made only one Final 8!!! G'town fans have never gotten over irrelevancy! And that's what this 30/30 was really about.

 

[Dogdeacon]

It's a conspiracy in the film maker's mind. He's a Georgetown guy.

Think about G'town fans for a minute. When they had guys like Michael Graham, they won (and lost) big games. Then they hired a smut actor to coach them, and from 1989 through 2007, they made only one Final 8!!! G'town fans have never gotten over irrelevancy! And that's what this 30/30 was really about.

That makes sense that the filmmaker was a Georgetown alum, Thompson was given a very favorable treatment and contributed very generously. I don't think that makes it a conspiracy against UConn. There was obviously a desire to glorify the BE early days. I enjoyed it and I thought Ed Pinckney was really good even though an out of left field choice.

Also I think UConn has an argument based on national championships, BE tourney wins etc.. that UConn is the best in history of BE. I would make that argument and I think win. But other schools have arguments as well, for example I think UConn was 32-38 against Syracuse (more final fours than UConn & more NCAA appearances) and UConn was 26-31 against Georgetown in BE play. Not saying they are better just that they can make an argument, i.e. wins and losses count and UConn has losing records (all-time, I'm not recounting just BE for everybody) against Syracuse, Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's.

 

[superjohn]

That makes sense that the filmmaker was a Georgetown alum, Thompson was given a very favorable treatment and contributed very generously. I don't think that makes it a conspiracy against UConn. There was obviously a desire to glorify the BE early days. I enjoyed it and I thought Ed Pinckney was really good even though an out of left field choice.

Also I think UConn has an argument based on national championships, BE tourney wins etc.. that UConn is the best in history of BE. I would make that argument and I think win. But other schools have arguments as well, for example I think UConn was 32-38 against Syracuse (more final fours than UConn & more NCAA appearances) and UConn was 26-31 against Georgetown in BE play. Not saying they are better just that they can make an argument, i.e. wins and losses count and UConn has losing records (all-time, I'm not recounting just BE for everybody) against Syracuse, Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's.

UConn has 3 National Championships, nobody else has more than 1. Argument over.

 

[upstater]

That makes sense that the filmmaker was a Georgetown alum, Thompson was given a very favorable treatment and contributed very generously. I don't think that makes it a conspiracy against UConn. There was obviously a desire to glorify the BE early days. I enjoyed it and I thought Ed Pinckney was really good even though an out of left field choice.

Also I think UConn has an argument based on national championships, BE tourney wins etc.. that UConn is the best in history of BE. I would make that argument and I think win. But other schools have arguments as well, for example I think UConn was 32-38 against Syracuse (more final fours than UConn & more NCAA appearances) and UConn was 26-31 against Georgetown in BE play. Not saying they are better just that they can make an argument, i.e. wins and losses count and UConn has losing records (all-time, I'm not recounting just BE for everybody) against Syracuse, Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's.

Do the BE numbers, not all-time.

Championships mean something, so do National Championships. I mean, no one really cares that the Patriots and Jets are .500 against each other.

Something else to consider: these schools don't like UConn the public land grant school that started nabbing NYC, DC, Baltimore, Philly, Boston, and YES Connecticut talent in the 1990s.

BC once had Jay Murphy, Michael Adams, John Bagley, and I'm sure some other Conn. kids. Villanova had your Harold Pressley's and John Pinone's. On the football side, syracuse was grabbing Conn. players left and right like Dwight Freeney and Tebuncy Jones. BC doesn't like to see Shabazz Napier and Jeff Adrien head south, never mind Yawin Smallwood and Jordan Todman. St. John's doesn't like to see Kemba Walker, Ben Gordon, etc. head east. When Donyell Marshall, Rudy Gay, Jerome Dyson and the like head to UConn, the Philly and DC area schools don't like it.

This more than anything has contributed to the fervor to bury UConn.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

That makes sense that the filmmaker was a Georgetown alum...

...and created by a sports company that just happens to be based in CT; but, historically run by a lot of Syracuse alumni. Yep, no chance of any bias there.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Gene DeFilippo: ’But, we are New England’s school!’

News Guy: ‘First, New England is not a state and, second, BC is not a state school.’

Gene DeFilippo: ‘But everyone in New England is Catholic and Jesus wants all Catholics to be BC fans.’

News Guy: ‘Last I checked, Jesus was overlooking ND stadium in Indiana, not Alumni Stadium in Chestnut Hill, and New England is not that Catholic anymore (50% in 1980, 34% in 2008, [URL='http://www.scribd.com/doc/13091104/Northeastern-Region-Table)’']http://www.scribd.com/doc/13091104/Northeastern-Region-Table)’[/URL]

Gene DeFilippo: ‘BC is New England’s best college team!’

News Guy: ‘Recently, in hockey yes; though BC is tied with BU 5 to 5 for national titles. In football, historically, BC maybe won 1 national football title (BC’s website says 1940, no one else agrees) while Yale has won 27 and Harvard 7. More recently, BC has won 1 Big East Co-Championship, 0 ACC championships, and has been to 0 BCS Bowl games. UConn has won 2 Big East Co-Championships and has been to 1 BCS Bowl. In Basketball, BC has been to the Dance 18 times; but, has not yet reached the Final 4. UConn has been to the Dance 30 times, 4 Final Fours, and 3 National Championships. Oh, Providence has made it to the Final 4 twice and Holy Cross has a National Basketball title. Women’s basketball does not even deserve a response.’

Gene DeFilippo: ‘That’s it! It’s all UConn’s fault that BC sucks. We’re going to blackball them and get the glory back to the heights!’

News Guy: ‘Not’s not very Christian of you and by the way, while his sons may now play for BC; but, Doug Flutie graduated in the 1980’s. He’s not coming back.’

 

[cto44]

The problem with that team was that Dee Rowe was determined to make Corny Thompson an All American and screwed up the chemistry in his attempts to make it happen. That was a pretty good team that could have been much better.

Dee Rowe was not the coach that year. He was the coach from '69 to '77.

 

[DogMania]

Question for those who watched it already. I'm working from home today, but thought about putting it on as background noise while I work. Will watching this likely piss me off, or is it a solid production, as some pointed out, more about its founding and demise and less about any one or group of member teams? Of course we all want to see UConn prominently depicted here, but that might not fit in with the purpose of this piece.

Please advise! Thanks.

 

[BCINGYA]

Gene DeFilippo: ’But, we are New England’s school!’

News Guy: ‘First, New England is not a state and, second, BC is not a state school.’

Gene DeFilippo: ‘But everyone in New England is Catholic and Jesus wants all Catholics to be BC fans.’

News Guy: ‘Last I checked, Jesus was overlooking ND stadium in Indiana, not Alumni Stadium in Chestnut Hill, and New England is not that Catholic anymore (50% in 1980, 34% in 2008, http://www.scribd.com/doc/13091104/Northeastern-Region-Table)’

Gene DeFilippo: ‘BC is New England’s best college team!’

News Guy: ‘Recently, in hockey yes; though BC is tied with BU 5 to 5 for national titles. In football, historically, BC maybe won 1 national football title (BC’s website says 1940, no one else agrees) while Yale has won 27 and Harvard 7. More recently, BC has won 1 Big East Co-Championship, 0 ACC championships, and has been to 0 BCS Bowl games. UConn has won 2 Big East Co-Championships and has been to 1 BCS Bowl. In Basketball, BC has been to the Dance 18 times; but, has not yet reached the Final 4. UConn has been to the Dance 30 times, 4 Final Fours, and 3 National Championships. Oh, Providence has made it to the Final 4 twice and Holy Cross has a National Basketball title. Women’s basketball does not even deserve a response.’

Gene DeFilippo: ‘That’s it! It’s all UConn’s fault that BC sucks. We’re going to blackball them and get the glory back to the heights!’

News Guy: ‘Not’s not very Christian of you and by the way, while his sons may now play for BC; but, Doug Flutie graduated in the 1980’s. He’s not coming back.’

Wow things must be pretty slow for you....lol......asking and answering your own questions ....kind of spooky.

 

[8893]

Wow things must be pretty slow for you....lol.asking and answering your own questions ....kind of spooky.

Nah, we're just killing time before the NCAAs start. How 'bout you?

 

[superjohn]

Question for those who watched it already. I'm working from home today, but thought about putting it on as background noise while I work. Will watching this likely piss me off, or is it a solid production, as some pointed out, more about its founding and demise and less about any one or group of member teams? Of course we all want to see UConn prominently depicted here, but that might not fit in with the purpose of this piece.

Please advise! Thanks.

Don't watch it, UConn isn't even mentioned and the director did nothing with a fascinating subject.