Requiem for the Big East

[HuskyFan16]

the ESPN report had the football schools at "nearly $14M/yr" and the average annual value at $130M per year for the whole conference. the 8 basketball schools would have gotten ~$2.25M per year in that deal as opposed to $4.16-5M. that difference is a coach's salary.

You have to remember that the ESPN offer was the first offer. ESPN was still within it's exclusive negotiating rights when that offer was made. After the Big East declined, thanks to the like of God knows who (but in all reality probably Pitt and Cuse because they were told they had a safe landing place; and because ... well screw Pitt and Cuse, those slimy fcks), ESPN intentionally ripped apart the league before it's rights could hit the open market. This was done so that it didn't have to outbid Fox or NBC AND most importantly to ESPN, probably, that they would't have to hear from the ACC about restructuring its contract because "Wah the Big East got all this money, and we deserve more them them!"

Who knows what the basketball schools would have been getting if that happened. My guess is probably north of $5 mil. But who knows.

There are three things that destroyed the Big East:

1) ESPN's desire to monopolize college sports television rights. Can't really blame them on that.* The Big East, like every single other conference wanted to maximize revenue, so ESPN should't really be held to a different standard. I know Nelson says "In the end ESPN paid more" ... but that is not necessarily true if you consider 1) what ESPN would have either had to pay to keep the Big East, or what they would have lost to competitors; and 2) what they (probably) had to do to restructure the ACC's contract

2) The ACC's relentless desire to see the Big East eradicated. Again, for similar reasons, hard to fault them ... but it they are the ACC so screw them. Bunch of insecure pansies.

3) This is the most important. Historically the Big East model was untenable. The Basketball Onlies (and this was portrayed to an extent in the film) could not fathom after their run in the 80's that they would NEED the football schools. The lack of a unified mission bred resentment, mistrust, and ultimately the betrayal of the likes of BC, Pitt, Cuse and similar repugnant traitors. They gave up on the idea of the Eastern Conference. Not because they didn't think it could work. Whether it could or it couldn't never was really given a chance. They gave up because the Big East never acted like a real Conference. Think of the SEC and the BiG. You never hear of dissension. The schools generally trust each other because they have like minded goals and thus do not need to worry that their conference mates are acting with ulterior motives.


*ESPN can be blamed with one consequence of their financial decisions. That is of course that their course of action has possibly irreparably damaged the state university of the state which provided them with millions of dollars in forgivable loans and tax benefits. This is just flatly disgusting.

 

[TRest]

the ESPN report had the football schools at "nearly $14M/yr" and the average annual value at $130M per year for the whole conference. the 8 basketball schools would have gotten ~$2.25M per year in that deal as opposed to $4.16-5M. that difference is a coach's salary.

Has the 4-5 million number ever been confirmed? I know it's been a "sources say" amount, but since all are private schools the actual number has never been released (that I'm aware of).

 

[upstater]

What was the breakdown between football and basketball in the original 13.5mm offer?
The difference between that offer and the fox deal would how much better the NBE is doing with Fox.
The NBE got a great deal from Fox looking to compete with ESPN.

Unless the basketball schools were only going to get $1.2m in that ESPN deal, then peeps is wrong.

Remember, the ESPN deal would have included Pitt, Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, West Virginia and Rutgers.

 

[upstater]

the ESPN report had the football schools at "nearly $14M/yr" and the average annual value at $130M per year for the whole conference. the 8 basketball schools would have gotten ~$2.25M per year in that deal as opposed to $4.16-5M. that difference is a coach's salary.

Show me a link with the $5 million number. For that number, show me a link for the $2.25 million offer to basketball schools from ESPN. The old BE football ratings were not exactly a bonanza compared to bball ratings.

I've only seen $3.5m to $4m for the Fox NBE deal.

 

[peeps]

Show me a link with the $5 million number. For that number, show me a link for the $2.25 million offer to basketball schools from ESPN. The old BE football ratings were not exactly a bonanza compared to bball ratings.

I've only seen $3.5m to $4m for the Fox NBE deal.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8977673/big-east-conference-espn-agree-tv-rights-deal

In 2011, ESPN offered a new nine-year deal to the Big East worth $1.17 billion or an average of $130 million annually. However, the Big East's presidents voted to turn down the deal that would have earned football members nearly $14 million a year.

I can do math... 8 basketball schools including ND who is a football independent left with ~$18M/yr of the $130M annual average.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2013/11/11/Colleges/Fox-Big-East.aspx
http://awfulannouncing.com/2013/details-on-fox-s-deal-with-the-new-big-east.html
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...r-butler-creighton-signs-tv-contract/2002227/

multiple reports of $500M over 12 years for 10 teams or $600M for 12 teams is enough by any journalistic standard.

i can't believe you are going to argue that this fox deal is not a lot more than the basketball schools ever would have gotten tied to the football schools. and pitt orchestrated turning that deal down anyway.

 

[upstater]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8977673/big-east-conference-espn-agree-tv-rights-deal

In 2011, ESPN offered a new nine-year deal to the Big East worth $1.17 billion or an average of $130 million annually. However, the Big East's presidents voted to turn down the deal that would have earned football members nearly $14 million a year.

I can do math... 8 basketball schools including ND who is a football independent left with ~$18M/yr of the $130M annual average.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2013/11/11/Colleges/Fox-Big-East.aspx
http://awfulannouncing.com/2013/details-on-fox-s-deal-with-the-new-big-east.html
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...r-butler-creighton-signs-tv-contract/2002227/

multiple reports of $500M over 12 years for 10 teams or $600M for 12 teams is enough by any journalistic standard.

i can't believe you are going to argue that this fox deal is not a lot more than the basketball schools ever would have gotten tied to the football schools. and pitt orchestrated turning that deal down anyway.

Can you do math? It's $4.16m for 10 schools. The additional money is for additional schools.

As for the BE, Katz has the deal as $1.4b here over 9 years: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...-new-commissioner-important-issues-unresolved

I don't see a breakdown there, but whatever. We've been going on the notion that it was $13.5m for the football schools, and I have a ton of links that say it was that. So, $13.5m x 8 schools x 9 = 972 m so 428m is left over for 8 schools / 9 years = $5.94m a year.

 

[Husky25]

My question is: (sorta unrelated) HOW LONG will the SOUTHERN ACC powerhouse football schools subsidize Northeast weak Football schools before they realize they can make more money without the BC and Syracuse's of the world who no one watches on TV anyway. I mean, Cuse football sucks, so does BC and Pitt. whats gonna happen then?

UT OHH...You just invited BCINYA and BC1978 to a fight over what is or is not relevant in their lone dimension of a parallel universe. Good Luck.

 

[peeps]

show me the links that say it is 9 years at $1.4B? i show 9 years at $1.17B with nearly $14M going to football schools.

take the difference between what ESPN reported and the $13.5 you stated there is an average of $13.75M x 8 schools = $110M.
$130M annual average -$110M for FB schools = $20M remaining
$20M / 8 BB schools = $2.5M

there is a HUGE discrepancy in numbers based on you taking the low of $13.5/yr and the high of $1.4B over 9.

 

[upstater]

show me the links that say it is 9 years at $1.4B? i show 9 years at $1.17B with nearly $14M going to football schools.

take the difference between what ESPN reported and the $13.5 you stated there is an average of $13.75M x 8 schools = $110M.
$130M annual average -$110M for FB schools = $20M remaining
$20M / 8 BB schools = $2.5M

there is a HUGE discrepancy in numbers based on you taking the low of $13.5/yr and the high of $1.4B over 9.

I already gave you the link. It's in the Katz article.

 

[HuskyFan16]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8977673/big-east-conference-espn-agree-tv-rights-deal

i can't believe you are going to argue that this fox deal is not a lot more than the basketball schools ever would have gotten tied to the football schools. and pitt orchestrated turning that deal down anyway.

Again... Yes there is reason to believe that the bball schools would have gotten a much larger contract. The Fox contract is what the open market paid for the Catholic schools plus Xavier, Creighton, and Butler. The schools that left the Big East were much more valuable basketball commodities both in actual pedigree and viewership. BUT there never came a time where the open market was allowed to set the price for that basketball league. The ESPN offer was made within ESPN's exclusive bargaining period.

Do you not understand how that works Peeps?

 

[BCINGYA]

UT OHH...You just invited BCINYA and BC1978 to a fight over what is or is not relevant in their lone dimension of a parallel universe. Good Luck.

LOL .....I have to chuckle

 

[peeps]

Again... Yes there is reason to believe that the bball schools would have gotten a much larger contract. The Fox contract is what the open market paid for the Catholic schools plus Xavier, Creighton, and Butler. The schools that left the Big East were much more valuable basketball commodities both in actual pedigree and viewership. BUT there never came a time where the open market was allowed to set the price for that basketball league. The ESPN offer was made within ESPN's exclusive bargaining period.

Do you not understand how that works Peeps?

do you not understand that the entire league was sabotaged before the open market was available? this league would never have gotten to the open market because of ESPN and the ACC. the hypothetical that the BE would have gotten more on the open market is preposterous and rhetorical only. it would never have gotten that far.

and upstater... a throwaway line in a katz article with absolutely no breakdown? no thanks. i'll take the other ESPN article that actually breaks it down. i've never seen $1.4B anywhere else.

 

[HuskyFan16]

You're whole argument was predicated on the assumption that if the Catholic schools had decided to take a contract with the Big East, then that must mean all of the old Big East schools would have decided to stick together. I don't think you can sit there and say you think the Catholic schools would have stayed even after Syracuse, Pitt, TCU and West Virginia left. Your argument was specifically about the amount of money the Catholic schools would have gotten if teams had stayed in the Big East versus what they got by leaving.

EXCEPT, if teams had decided to stay in the Big East, the first contract would not have been the one that was accepted. So no that point is not rhetorical. It is not as though ESPN has some magical power where it can just command by fiat that "THE BIG EAST SHALT NEVER BE ALLOWED TO PUT THEIR TELEVISION RIGHTS ON THE OPEN MARKET." That decision was the product of the aforementioned traitors who made the conscious decision that they did not want to be in an eastern focused sports conference. To each his own, but yes, if the basketball schools had remained in the Big East then they would be making more money than they do with FOX.

 

[upstater]

and upstater... a throwaway line in a katz article with absolutely no breakdown? no thanks. i'll take the other ESPN article that actually breaks it down. i've never seen $1.4B anywhere else.

I can give you approximately 73,432 other links that reference the $1.4B.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...oner-says-big-east-defections-were-inevitable

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...w-looming-tv-payday-could-lead-to-big-changes

 

[peeps]

I can give you approximately 73,432 other links that reference the $1.4B.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...oner-says-big-east-defections-were-inevitable

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...w-looming-tv-payday-could-lead-to-big-changes

thanks for the cbs article that had this nugget:

Using the figures the Big East reportedly turned down from ESPN -- $1.4 billion for nine years -- the league's nine football members (including TCU) would have earned between $14.5 million and $16.93 million a year

using $14.5-16.93M range for NINE football members doesn't leave a whole helluva a lot left for the BB schools.

$155.5M total annual - 130.5M for FB schools = $25M remaining
$25M remaining / 8 BB schools = $3.125M per BB school

and that is the low range of what FB schools were offered. i would need to know the AAV of what the FB schools were offered (somewhere between $14.5 and $16.93M) to know how much lower than $3.125 the BB schools would have gotten.

thank you for providing more ammo for my point.

the BB schools are making out nicely in their fox deal.

 

[upstater]

thanks for the cbs article that had this nugget:

Using the figures the Big East reportedly turned down from ESPN -- $1.4 billion for nine years -- the league's nine football members (including TCU) would have earned between $14.5 million and $16.93 million a year

using $14.5-16.93M range for NINE football members doesn't leave a whole helluva a lot left for the BB schools.

$155.5M total annual - 130.5M for FB schools = $25M remaining
$25M remaining / 8 BB schools = $3.125M per BB school

and that is the low range of what FB schools were offered. i would need to know the AAV of what the FB schools were offered (somewhere between $14.5 and $16.93M) to know how much lower than $3.125 the BB schools would have gotten.

thank you for providing more ammo for my point.

the BB schools are making out nicely in their fox deal.

Let's face it, it could be $3m for the bball schools, it could be $6m. no one knows because everyone has different info.

Almost all the articles say it's $13.5 m a year for football schools. it could be that writer is bad at math.

If it were really $17m a year, Pitt would have never turned that money down, since the ACC was at $13m and going up to $17m.

 

[peeps]

backtrack much?

 

[upstater]

backtrack much?

You sound certain that the football schools were offered almost $15-17m a year. Are you certain?

You were certain earlier that the bball schools were at $2.25m. Now you're at $3.1m. Backtracking?

Are you certain of your numbers?

 

[peeps]

certain? no. but that report (which you shared) reports that the FB schools would get $14.5-$16.93... the important number to know would be AAV which would be somewhere between those 2 numbers.

you seem awfully certain that the average is $13.5/yr for FB. i have not seen that to be the case. CBS reported at least $14.5 and ESPN reported "nearly $14M". it might seem like semantics to you, but in the end it is huge dollars to the BB schools. and a guarantee. and security that there won't be turmoil 1-2 years after they sign the deal.

 

[peeps]

PS.... i like your edited post in which the original stated "only a dunce cherrypicks conflicting info". solid delete on your part.

 

[upstater]

PS.... i like your edited post in which the original stated "only a dunce cherrypicks conflicting info". solid delete on your part.

Let me tell you something, only dunces cherrypick conflicting info.

Why are you backtracking by the way?

 

[peeps]

i'll try your form of argument:

let's face it... $2.25M per year or $3.125M per year.... any way you slice it, BB schools are better off with a minimum of $4.166M per year and security that the conference is united.

 

[peeps]

Let me tell you something, only dunces cherrypick conflicting info.

Why are you backtracking by the way?

from the poster that cherrypicked the low reported $13.5M per FB school per year and the high overall $1.4B over 9 for total deal. dunces indeed...

 

[intlzncster]

Go sit in a corner your two.

 

[upstater]

I readily admitted I have no absolute certain info. Why would you show conflicting numbers? I ask, are you certain? Then you backtracked. What more needs to be said?