nelsonmuntz
Point Center
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 46,771
- Reaction Score
- 39,970
Nah. Miami and ESPN.
Requiem for the Big East
- Thread starter minidarren
- Start date
- Status
Nah. Miami and ESPN.
nelsonmuntz
Point Center
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 46,771
- Reaction Score
- 39,970
It was a very bright idea if you look at the math. Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Syracuse, TCU and Louisville ended up getting about 2x what ESPN was offering, and the C7 schools ended up getting about 2.5x. Only UConn, USF and Cincinnati lost out by telling ESPN to buzz off.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2012
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction Score
- 60
Yea, but the thing that pisses me off was Pitt urging everyone to reject the deal, when they already knew they were leaving. They knew, and intentionally screwed everyone else. Nothing is more slimy than that.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 30,552
- Reaction Score
- 52,773
Death by lack of $$$. When the money difference becomes too much for the smaller schools to bear, they'll lose players and relevance, and when they lose players, they'll lose their TV contracts and fade away. At that point, the only thing that might save the non-power schools is the NCAA losing a lawsuit to the likes of J Kessler.
nelsonmuntz
Point Center
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 46,771
- Reaction Score
- 39,970
They didn't screw everyone else. Just about everyone else did great by turning down that ESPN lowball offer.
The only schools that got screwed were Cincinnati, South Florida and UConn, and ESPN was the one that did the screwing. ESPN is the one responsible for UConn's current conference predicament, no one else.
TRest
Horrible
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 8,229
- Reaction Score
- 24,070
What would the C7 schools received from that ESPN offer? Less than the football schools but was it more than what Fox is paying them now?
.-.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2012
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction Score
- 60
They didn't know that it would work out for most of the schools in the end. All they knew was they were convincing people to give up a sure thing because they said everyone would get more. Some did, not everybody.
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2014
- Messages
- 240
- Reaction Score
- 62
I wonder if they had enough votes to override Pitt/Syr and take the deal. That would put the ball in their court and announce that they were leaving for the ACC before they knew the ACC would take them.
I doubt anyone will ever sort out all the drama that went on.
not even close. their current tv deal is worth nearly 300% more than the ESPN deal would have been. most of that is to offset the $70M in assets given up for the name and MSG.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 30,552
- Reaction Score
- 52,773
Uh, no. Wrong. Heck, the current deal is only 200% more than the AAC's. You actually believe the AAC's deal would be almost double the old Big East's? Crazy.
providence was getting ~$1.4M per year in the old big east. before the BE expands presumably to 12 teams they are getting ~$4.16M. that is ~300% more than the last deal. it can go up to $5M/yr if they expand to 12 teams. i have no idea what you are getting now with 10 teams that also play football.
and i love how "only 200%" is thrown in there.
you seem to think i'm denigrating you. i'm really just saying that this is a much more lucrative conference for current BE schools than what they were getting in that football monster... and that is ironic.
and i love how "only 200%" is thrown in there.
you seem to think i'm denigrating you. i'm really just saying that this is a much more lucrative conference for current BE schools than what they were getting in that football monster... and that is ironic.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 30,552
- Reaction Score
- 52,773
Holy cow, this is what you wrote: their current tv deal is worth nearly 300% more than the ESPN deal would have been.
This whole discussion is about the vote on the ESPN proposal for $13.5 million per football team (which includes the bball numbers). Try to follow along next time.
.-.
TRest
Horrible
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 8,229
- Reaction Score
- 24,070
Exactly. What would Providence have made in the contract that was voted down as opposed to what it makes from Fox? Everybody keeps using the old BE number of a million or so per year and compares that to the Fox number.
the ESPN report had the football schools at "nearly $14M/yr" and the average annual value at $130M per year for the whole conference. the 8 basketball schools would have gotten ~$2.25M per year in that deal as opposed to $4.16-5M. that difference is a coach's salary.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2011
- Messages
- 5,964
- Reaction Score
- 14,969
What was the breakdown between football and basketball in the original 13.5mm offer?
The difference between that offer and the fox deal would how much better the NBE is doing with Fox.
The NBE got a great deal from Fox looking to compete with ESPN.
Yes, but at least the C7 would have had a TV audience. That has to count for something. Most of the nation will be watching C7 teams this week for the very first time this season.
.-.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2013
- Messages
- 1,377
- Reaction Score
- 3,440
You gotta give Fox Sports 1 some time. Fox bought rights to the MLB, FIFA World Cup, MLS, and also shows PAC12 and BIG12 football. I think viewership can only go up as they become more competitive vs. ESPN. ESPN will obviously always remain the network of choice, but Fox has money to blow and they will compete. The Big East can only benefit of such exclusive college basketball contract
with that said... The Big East already lost a team tonight (Xavier)... If they cant compete with the big boys then this whole experiment will fail
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 775
- Reaction Score
- 1,043
You have to remember that the ESPN offer was the first offer. ESPN was still within it's exclusive negotiating rights when that offer was made. After the Big East declined, thanks to the like of God knows who (but in all reality probably Pitt and Cuse because they were told they had a safe landing place; and because ... well screw Pitt and Cuse, those slimy fcks), ESPN intentionally ripped apart the league before it's rights could hit the open market. This was done so that it didn't have to outbid Fox or NBC AND most importantly to ESPN, probably, that they would't have to hear from the ACC about restructuring its contract because "Wah the Big East got all this money, and we deserve more them them!"
Who knows what the basketball schools would have been getting if that happened. My guess is probably north of $5 mil. But who knows.
There are three things that destroyed the Big East:
1) ESPN's desire to monopolize college sports television rights. Can't really blame them on that.* The Big East, like every single other conference wanted to maximize revenue, so ESPN should't really be held to a different standard. I know Nelson says "In the end ESPN paid more" ... but that is not necessarily true if you consider 1) what ESPN would have either had to pay to keep the Big East, or what they would have lost to competitors; and 2) what they (probably) had to do to restructure the ACC's contract
2) The ACC's relentless desire to see the Big East eradicated. Again, for similar reasons, hard to fault them ... but it they are the ACC so screw them. Bunch of insecure pansies.
3) This is the most important. Historically the Big East model was untenable. The Basketball Onlies (and this was portrayed to an extent in the film) could not fathom after their run in the 80's that they would NEED the football schools. The lack of a unified mission bred resentment, mistrust, and ultimately the betrayal of the likes of BC, Pitt, Cuse and similar repugnant traitors. They gave up on the idea of the Eastern Conference. Not because they didn't think it could work. Whether it could or it couldn't never was really given a chance. They gave up because the Big East never acted like a real Conference. Think of the SEC and the BiG. You never hear of dissension. The schools generally trust each other because they have like minded goals and thus do not need to worry that their conference mates are acting with ulterior motives.
*ESPN can be blamed with one consequence of their financial decisions. That is of course that their course of action has possibly irreparably damaged the state university of the state which provided them with millions of dollars in forgivable loans and tax benefits. This is just flatly disgusting.
TRest
Horrible
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 8,229
- Reaction Score
- 24,070
Has the 4-5 million number ever been confirmed? I know it's been a "sources say" amount, but since all are private schools the actual number has never been released (that I'm aware of).
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 30,552
- Reaction Score
- 52,773
Unless the basketball schools were only going to get $1.2m in that ESPN deal, then peeps is wrong.
Remember, the ESPN deal would have included Pitt, Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, West Virginia and Rutgers.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 30,552
- Reaction Score
- 52,773
Show me a link with the $5 million number. For that number, show me a link for the $2.25 million offer to basketball schools from ESPN. The old BE football ratings were not exactly a bonanza compared to bball ratings.
I've only seen $3.5m to $4m for the Fox NBE deal.
Last edited:
.-.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8977673/big-east-conference-espn-agree-tv-rights-deal
In 2011, ESPN offered a new nine-year deal to the Big East worth $1.17 billion or an average of $130 million annually. However, the Big East's presidents voted to turn down the deal that would have earned football members nearly $14 million a year.
I can do math... 8 basketball schools including ND who is a football independent left with ~$18M/yr of the $130M annual average.
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2013/11/11/Colleges/Fox-Big-East.aspx
http://awfulannouncing.com/2013/details-on-fox-s-deal-with-the-new-big-east.html
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...r-butler-creighton-signs-tv-contract/2002227/
multiple reports of $500M over 12 years for 10 teams or $600M for 12 teams is enough by any journalistic standard.
i can't believe you are going to argue that this fox deal is not a lot more than the basketball schools ever would have gotten tied to the football schools. and pitt orchestrated turning that deal down anyway.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 30,552
- Reaction Score
- 52,773
Can you do math? It's $4.16m for 10 schools. The additional money is for additional schools.
As for the BE, Katz has the deal as $1.4b here over 9 years: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...-new-commissioner-important-issues-unresolved
I don't see a breakdown there, but whatever. We've been going on the notion that it was $13.5m for the football schools, and I have a ton of links that say it was that. So, $13.5m x 8 schools x 9 = 972 m so 428m is left over for 8 schools / 9 years = $5.94m a year.
Husky25
Dink & Dunk beat the Greatest Show on Turf.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2012
- Messages
- 19,003
- Reaction Score
- 20,202
UT OHH...You just invited BCINYA and BC1978 to a fight over what is or is not relevant in their lone dimension of a parallel universe. Good Luck.
show me the links that say it is 9 years at $1.4B? i show 9 years at $1.17B with nearly $14M going to football schools.
take the difference between what ESPN reported and the $13.5 you stated there is an average of $13.75M x 8 schools = $110M.
$130M annual average -$110M for FB schools = $20M remaining
$20M / 8 BB schools = $2.5M
there is a HUGE discrepancy in numbers based on you taking the low of $13.5/yr and the high of $1.4B over 9.
take the difference between what ESPN reported and the $13.5 you stated there is an average of $13.75M x 8 schools = $110M.
$130M annual average -$110M for FB schools = $20M remaining
$20M / 8 BB schools = $2.5M
there is a HUGE discrepancy in numbers based on you taking the low of $13.5/yr and the high of $1.4B over 9.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 30,552
- Reaction Score
- 52,773
I already gave you the link. It's in the Katz article.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 775
- Reaction Score
- 1,043
Again... Yes there is reason to believe that the bball schools would have gotten a much larger contract. The Fox contract is what the open market paid for the Catholic schools plus Xavier, Creighton, and Butler. The schools that left the Big East were much more valuable basketball commodities both in actual pedigree and viewership. BUT there never came a time where the open market was allowed to set the price for that basketball league. The ESPN offer was made within ESPN's exclusive bargaining period.
Do you not understand how that works Peeps?
.-.
- Status