DaddyChoc
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well said... totally agree, Parker should have been on that team. comparing her to what happened on the mens side is no comparison
Ramona Shelburne weighs into Parker-Auriemma
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DaddyChoc
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thought you were talking about Taurasi for a minute
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I doubt we'll ever know for sure why she wasn't on that team, so everyone is free to speculate the scenario that most fits their personal view of the players and coaches and USA basketball.
But with imagination, it's not hard to envision multiple scenarios. For example, I can imagine multiple scenarios in which Geno was a major reason why Candace wasn't on the team. Some of those scenarios involve really bad reasons for leaving her off...some of them involve really good reasons for leaving her off.
No point in laying them out here, because there's no evidence for any of them. The only thing I feel confident in saying is this: I don't know if leaving Candace off was really some great travesty or miscarriage of fair play...and most likely you don't either.
But with imagination, it's not hard to envision multiple scenarios. For example, I can imagine multiple scenarios in which Geno was a major reason why Candace wasn't on the team. Some of those scenarios involve really bad reasons for leaving her off...some of them involve really good reasons for leaving her off.
No point in laying them out here, because there's no evidence for any of them. The only thing I feel confident in saying is this: I don't know if leaving Candace off was really some great travesty or miscarriage of fair play...and most likely you don't either.
JS
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Nor does Ms. Shelburne. She may know Parker's own preferred interpretation, after rejecting the reasons given her.The only thing I feel confident in saying is this: I don't know if leaving Candace off was really some great travesty or miscarriage of fair play...and most likely you don't either.
So did I, on the part about working the refs. But no one ever credibly accused DT of not being a team player. Ever.
meyers7
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Her incendiary remarks may be off-base or flat untrue about coach,
but some combination of so-called "experts" made one of the dumbest, irrational and mean-spirited calls of the century by leaving Candace off the team...period.
And to hear talk of "attitude to be a good team player, chemistry with teammates and coaches" and the like (as I predicted on a different thread)
just compounds the irrationality of the call.
UConn fans appear petty and small-minded to the rest of the country in trying to defend the indefensible.
and not for the usually stated reason.
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I said at the time and since Candace should have been on the team, period. No one on this board will ever know the real reasons or full story behind why she wasn't. This is a UConn board so I understand why there would be dislike for some UT players and a fan base that had some very vocal members screaming her absence was a Geno action simply due to her college choice. Those decisions are usually much more complex. Maybe there is a good reason, but based on talent alone she should have been there. Catch was in fact in the twilight of her career and didn't contribute much, but she was making the team due to her commitment to USA basketball over many cycles.
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Candy is dandy, but Diana is finer.
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I'll pull a Muffet McGraw here (say it and disclose nothing), maybe you hit the nail on the head with that statement. Did Candace commit herself to USA basketball?
CocoHusky
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Has anyone ever "credibly" accused Candace of not being a team player?
"It was really difficult," Parker said. "The one thing that allowed me to grow mentally was believing in myself. If it didn't happen, it wasn't going to be due to lack of effort."
"That attitude came in handy for Parker when Auriemma decided after the Games began to replace her in the starting lineup with Maya Moore. Moore is one of six of players on Team USA who played for Auriemma in college. He could not have had more of a Connecticut influence on the roster without adding an insurance agent to the staff.
If the decision frustrated Parker, she took it out on her opponents.
"I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to start," said Parker, who averaged 10.5 points over eight Olympic games. "It's definitely a different mindset. But I just tried to provide as much energy as possible when I came in."
Parker's response typified the maturity she and her teammates showed throughout an Olympics in which Team USA often was taken for granted."
Candace Parker overcomes, including getting past her coach
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I'm no Parker fan, but I can't see this being true at all. Why would Parker be tasked with guarding Cambage in the first place? There were other, bulkier posts on the team who are actual centers. If they got in foul trouble and it came down to Parker, that's not her fault; it's not like Stewie is going to ever be able to stop Cambage either. If it was a coaching decision to place Parker on Cambage, that's an issue with a coaching decision.
CocoHusky
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Candace was not assigned to guard Cambage during that game, except on the occasional switches and rotations. The task of guarding Cambage fell to Tina Charles and Sylvia Fowles.
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It still amazes me that the outcry is still out there.... that Parker got shafted and a tremendous injustice was done..... I understand the national consensus that she is one of the top players in the country. I wonder, trying to reason somewhat rhetorically what made Candace's Olympic omission so egregious and wrong? Was it her stats and game figures? Past performance in international competitions? What was it that made the coaching committee such a bunch of blithering idiots and analytical ingrates for not choosing a person who by most accounts DESERVED to be named to the team?
People are still up in arms more than a year later.... Even Candace will not let it go..... she says she has but she brings it up still.....
When choosing players for a basketball team, at the playground level or at the Olympic level.... the process is not like "we all know that is on the list to be named to the team" That is why they call it "choosing" the team members.... If Bird or Augustus wasn't chosen there would be surprise, perhaps even shock, but bottom line would be they were not chosen. It should be the same thing here with Candace.
But instead, the fix was in. The committee, or someone influencing the committee, played their chip to deny Candace of what was her destined spot on the team..... her rightful spot..... someone, some group of people, or the American populous had predetermined that whoever was named to the team, it went without saying that whoever was named to the team was going to be playing with Candace. After all, she was an automatic.
When the final puzzle of Wheel of Fortune comes, the puzzle reveals (what is it) the SAME GIVEN 4 consonants and a vowel....... before the contestant makes his/her supplemental choices...., Candace ... for whatever reason.... was widely seen as a GIVEN in the makeup of this team. She was a GIVEN by Jane Q. Public. And she did not make the cut. And the committee is not to blame, the ones charged with choosing the team, the blame lies with the coach of the team.
When it comes to personal choices and personnel decisions, these decisions are made by people. Not everybody will agree. Mitch Trubisky should start for the Bears this Sunday. Anyone who doesn't think that obviously has a screw loose. Verlander should be Houston Game 1 starter. Yankees should only use Chapman in relief in the last inning and for no more than 1 inning. Some of these things are debated furiously ... some are not.
Remember the NFL draft a few years ago.... when Ricky Williams of U Texas was by far the predominant running back in the draft, and the Colts came to declare their draft pick.... they needed a running back badly. and the commissioner came to the podium and announced the Colts pick. It was Edgerrin James of the U of Miami. How could this be?!!! An incredible shocker if you remember.... and it cost Williams a bunch of money - perhaps millions - not being the first running back taken in the draft....
Such is the nature when you have people making decisions, and not a groundswell of perceived consensus.
This whole Candace issue has for me been nothing more than a lot of noise..... and I have stayed out of the fray and out of the discussion for well over a year now..... but I sincerely find it FASCINATING that people are still harping on this subject so long after the fact.
As soon as I say it will go away in time, I remind myself that for many .... the Civil War is still being uncivilly fought .......only 150 years after history has told us that it ended.
People are still up in arms more than a year later.... Even Candace will not let it go..... she says she has but she brings it up still.....
When choosing players for a basketball team, at the playground level or at the Olympic level.... the process is not like "we all know that is on the list to be named to the team" That is why they call it "choosing" the team members.... If Bird or Augustus wasn't chosen there would be surprise, perhaps even shock, but bottom line would be they were not chosen. It should be the same thing here with Candace.
But instead, the fix was in. The committee, or someone influencing the committee, played their chip to deny Candace of what was her destined spot on the team..... her rightful spot..... someone, some group of people, or the American populous had predetermined that whoever was named to the team, it went without saying that whoever was named to the team was going to be playing with Candace. After all, she was an automatic.
When the final puzzle of Wheel of Fortune comes, the puzzle reveals (what is it) the SAME GIVEN 4 consonants and a vowel....... before the contestant makes his/her supplemental choices...., Candace ... for whatever reason.... was widely seen as a GIVEN in the makeup of this team. She was a GIVEN by Jane Q. Public. And she did not make the cut. And the committee is not to blame, the ones charged with choosing the team, the blame lies with the coach of the team.
When it comes to personal choices and personnel decisions, these decisions are made by people. Not everybody will agree. Mitch Trubisky should start for the Bears this Sunday. Anyone who doesn't think that obviously has a screw loose. Verlander should be Houston Game 1 starter. Yankees should only use Chapman in relief in the last inning and for no more than 1 inning. Some of these things are debated furiously ... some are not.
Remember the NFL draft a few years ago.... when Ricky Williams of U Texas was by far the predominant running back in the draft, and the Colts came to declare their draft pick.... they needed a running back badly. and the commissioner came to the podium and announced the Colts pick. It was Edgerrin James of the U of Miami. How could this be?!!! An incredible shocker if you remember.... and it cost Williams a bunch of money - perhaps millions - not being the first running back taken in the draft....
Such is the nature when you have people making decisions, and not a groundswell of perceived consensus.
This whole Candace issue has for me been nothing more than a lot of noise..... and I have stayed out of the fray and out of the discussion for well over a year now..... but I sincerely find it FASCINATING that people are still harping on this subject so long after the fact.
As soon as I say it will go away in time, I remind myself that for many .... the Civil War is still being uncivilly fought .......only 150 years after history has told us that it ended.
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JS
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Hard to say unless other players or coaches are willing to be quoted and their number and identity are such as to make their comments credible.
Which is not the case. But then, players almost never allow themselves to be quoted publicly, in a negative vein and by name, about other players.
It is the case that the "selfish" accusations, as supposedly made by other players, have been swirling around Ms. Parker for a long time. Here's a randomly selected example.
Caveat: No idea as to credibility. But it has persistently been out there in email Scoop Groups and social media.
I heard it specifically in the former context (sources with pretty good track record) at the time of the selection.
My point is not truth or falsehood. Maybe spreading this stuff is the work of Russian trolls. Maybe, on the other hand, where there's smoke . . .
My point was to answer DC's (typically tweaking of UConn fans) comparison of CP's on-court demeanor with that of DT.
Works the refs a lot, perhaps excessively, yes. Selfish, no.
I used the word "credibly," upon which you focus, Coco, just because I can't swear that no one's ever called DT selfish on the court.
But again, there's just no such narrative about her, and rightly so.
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MilfordHusky
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Griner wasn’t on the team, and Sylvia wasn’t 100% healthy. Other than Fowles, Candace was the tallest player on the team. Tina, at 6’3”, and Asjha, at 6’2”, also guarded Cambage, who is 6’8”. Candace is a superlative player, but she’s a finesse player. Against the bulky Aussies (not just Cambage), more strength and willingness to bang are required.
UConnCat
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Parker showed zero grit or drive or determination in that game and it didn't matter whom she was supposed to guard. Geno pulled her after a particular possession in the 3rd quarter where it was clear she wanted no part of the aggressive and physical and determined Opals. That was that. She played great in the Gold Medal game against the finesse French team but everyone knew the real Gold Medal game was against the Opals. That said, that's not why she wasn't in Rio although I suspect USA BB remembered her poor effort in the face of adversity and knew they could win against Australia without her.
Parker likely would have been in Rio had she chosen to play in the 2014 World Championships in Istanbul but she chose to miss her second consecutive World Championship. She did this knowing that USA Basketball does not look favorably upon players bypassing the World Championships for the more glamorous Olympics. Everyone wants to be an Olympian, right? There's no gold medal quite like an Olympic gold medal. There are several core players who have never missed a World Championship tournament for USA Basketball or have done so only when a serious injury prevents them from playing. USA Basketball notices and cares a lot about that.
Back to Parker. She missed the 2010 World Championships in the Czech Republic because of shoulder surgery. She had chronic shoulder issues dating back to college and after re-injuring during the WNBA season she opted to shut down the season and have surgery. There was a story that summer that she had planned to have the shoulder surgery right after the WNBA season (and maybe still miss the world championships?) but she had the surgery mid-summer and that was that. She made the London Olympic team.
The next international tournament was the 2014 World Championships in Istanbul. After playing the entire WNBA season and the playoffs without evidence of injury, Parker announced that she would not be able to play for USA Basketball in Istanbul because of some minor, undisclosed knee surgery. She wished her teammates well on twitter, though. USA Basketball was not pleased nor were some of her teammates, the ones who show up and play in the world championships even though they'd probably like to take time off to have some minor surgeries or rest before overseas commitments begin. Whatever the surgery, Parker was ready to go when her overseas schedule began early November, 2014. There was to be no interfering with her Euroleague schedule.
Then comes Rio and USA BB was faced with having to look certain veteran players in the eyes and tell them it's okay to pass on the world championships and then waltz on in and make the Olympic team. USA BB chose instead to say that's not okay. Message sent. No preferential treatment, no player is more special than another.
I don't doubt for a minute that Geno didn't want her on the team in Rio. I don't think he enjoyed coaching her in London, particularly after she was removed from the starting lineup. It didn't matter as she did not have the support of the majority of the committee and that was largely because she backed out of the 2014 world championships and the complaints about that from some of the veteran players.
It's 2017 and USA BB extends an invitation to Parker to participate in camp leading up to the 2018 World Championship team. She was given the opportunity to show that playing for USA BB is an earned privilege and not an entitlement given to a WNBA MVP or All-Star. She declined.
I can not believe there are reporters still writing about Parker not making her third Olympic team. I also can not believe we're still seeing words like "tragic" or "injustice" ascribed to this situation. Sorry, tragic is how you describe what just happened in Vegas or Puerto Rico or other such places or events. A millionaire being denied her 3rd gold medal is not an injustice. There are more important things going on in the world than #ParkersLifeMatters.
EricSD
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Where's the hand clapping emoticon when I need it?!! I especially liked how you laid out her lack of commitment to Team USA and the comments "USA Basketball was not pleased nor were some of her teammates, the ones who show up and play in the world championships even though they'd probably like to take time off to have some minor surgeries or rest before overseas commitments begin." and "she did not have the support of the majority of the committee and that was largely because she backed out of the 2014 world championships and the complaints about that from some of the veteran players." Some find it hard to believe that her falling out with USA basketball was self inflicted, and it's easy to blame Geno instead of the person who actually had control over her destiny...
Yes, great post UConnCat. I find it interesting that Candace didn't mention the commitment issue. I'm assuming Shelburne didn't do the research and therefore wasn't aware of it. Or even worse -- she was aware but chose not to mention it.
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Which is funny because the former Australian coach made his roster decision to go with finesse players who could keep up with Parker (his quote/thinking, not mine lol).
So Cambage was their only bulk, physical player in Rio. .-.
CamrnCrz1974
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I also went back and did the research. 2o06 was the only year there were two former Duke players in the team...it was WC, not the Olympics. And one of the two in 2006 was All-NBA (Elton Brand). Carlos Boozer was All-NBA when he was selected to the 2008 Olympics. Kyrie Irving was All-NBA when he was selected for the 2014 WC (where he won MVP) and the 2016 Olympics. Mason Plumlee was not an All-NBA selection when he was picked, but all of the Olympians chose not to play in that year's WC, so the team was comprised of the next-tier players and younger ones at that.
CocoHusky
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You get extra credit for doing the research but the original post was talking exclusively about the "Olympics" as mentioned three different times in the post.
CocoHusky
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So how can you conclude positively and definitively about DT that she has never been reported to be a bad teammate and then conclude the opposite about Candace when teammates are not willing to go on the record publically? My limited experience with these scoops is that there is dirt in all. Did you scoop for DT?
CocoHusky
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One of the reasons this story will not go away is because it was very poorly handled by all parties concerned. The basis of the decision should have been entirely basketball or basketball related and simple: I.e. USA basketball though that for this team EDD or Stewie or Catch was a better fit. End of story! Lacking a simple basketball explanation, the tin foil brigade resorted to innuendo against Geno, and of course many people correctly leapt to Geno’s defense. In defense of Geno non-basketball and personality based explanation emerged.
Specific missteps:
USA basketball surprised Candace and the world with the announcement. Candace was back in California when she received a phone call from Carol Callahan announcing the news. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/wnba/2016/04/26/candace-parker-disappointed-will-not-be-on-us-hoops-roster/83548214/ For a player of Candace’s stature that is wrong because this being the age of social media the news was already out- on ESPN. Contrast that with when Skylar Diggins was cut from the World Championship team Geno and Carol Callahan met with her to deliver the news in real time in France. http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2015/02/19/skylar-diggins-olympics-basketball-2016-rio/
In a subsequent interview Carol Callahan gave what was a perfectly simple and good basketball explanation for the decision citing the “Depth of the US team at the 3 & 4 positions?” Translation: USA basketball selected who they thought were better players. The trouble with this explanation is that it came 6 full days after the announcement and fell largely on deaf ears because by that time everyone (including me) was either fully entrenched in their respective conspiracy theories or defending Geno.
Candace initial handled both the news and the first interview with USA Today well, concluding with "I'm older and more mature and feel like I take things as they come. They made their decision and I have to respect it." Then someone got to Candace gassed her up and suddenly there was the re-tweet of her dunking on UCONN from almost a decade ago. The re-tweet simultaneously fueled two already raging fires. 1) Geno made this happed 2) USA basketball has too many UCONN players.
The Media. Most of the reputable newspapers questioned the decision to exclude Candace form the Olympic team. Almost ALL national newspapers stated that this was a USA basketball decision. A few rags based in the state of Tennessee were the papers stating that the decision was Geno’s, wrong and in retaliation against the University of TN. For rags based in TN, Geno is the devil so all would have been better off considering the source before reacting. Since many didn’t consider the source, Social media took it from there, recall that Candace’s dunking on UCONN was a re-tweet meaning someone sent it to her. To the best off my knowledge no single paper put a direct and specific question to either Geno or Carol regarding the decision. That Ramona Shelburne can get clicks off an event that happened more than 18 Months ago makes her pretty smart in my opinion.
Geno. I honestly don’t think Geno cares about the decision and the controversy surrounding it, but I also believe that this is an instance where being glib does not work out well for him. He might have been better served addressing this one directly. Almost three months after the Olympic team had been selected Geno was interviewed by Hartford Courant about the Olympic team. In that interview Geno made two statements that added fuel to the fire. These are statement Geno has made before about his UCONN & Olympic teams but this was at the apex of the controversy and IMO he would have been better repeating what he said a few weeks earlier, which was: "The committee had to make some very hard decisions. "
"It's a lot like a great orchestra," Auriemma said. "Everybody is playing their particular instrument and may be the best in the world at that. But that doesn't mean that you get to do your own thing because all of a sudden it's not an orchestra anymore. It's just a bunch of individuals trying to show how good they are. Everybody on this team, the reason they're on this team is because they understand that.
"They are really, really good at sizing up the situation and saying, what does this team need from me?" Auriemma said. "Not like, this is what I do on my team so this is what I'm going to do here. No, [it's], what does this team need from me and how do I complement everyone else. And we're very, very fortunate that the players that we have really, really think that, feel it, buy into it, and live it every day."
http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-womens-basketball/hc-usa-women-basketball-0722-20160721-story.html
Us. Here I’m including myself & many BY-ers. We used the BY to defend Geno against accusations that were written elsewhere. The accusers would not be brave enough to post here. We came up with explanations for this decision that were personality based and repeated then often.
If you are looking for basketball explanation for why Candace was left off the Olympic team Carol Callahan provided one, as did @meyers7:
“I really can't see where Parker would fit in on this team. I like Parker, I think she's a great player. But after watching what they want to do with this team, I don't really see where she would have fit in. I think the committee might have gotten this one right, against my judgement.”
Me. The personality based explanations, especially those that attempted to diminish Candace as a player or person really irked me because they are so very lazy. Equally lazy is the specific linkage of this decision exclusively to Geno. This is USA basketball vs. the rest of the world we are talking about. If you are looking for a non-basketball (personality) explanation for the decision, just jump on one of the many that have already been proposed or come up with your own. Either way I’ll be here to refute.
JS
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Coco, I think I explained adequately that I wasn't saying positively and definitively it was "never reported" about DT -- actually indicated I was avoiding saying that.
But I've never heard it said of her on or off the record, or by rumor or otherwise, have you?
If you think it's there, please accept your own invitation to engage in a deep dive comparing two players, one of whom was dragged into the conversation by DaddyChoc.
When you're done, I trust you can report that "There's no needle in that haystack."
Or DC can speak for himself if he thinks there's similar stuff out there about DT, which I doubt.
Time to give it a rest, far as I'm concerned.
iamcbs
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Is Ms. Shelburne's misguided assumption in this piece that Geno or any Team USA Coach has some say in the selection process of National Teams? She obviously doesn't know that that isn't the case. The Coaches have no input in the selection of players for the National Teams. Carol Callan and the committee snubbed Candace Parker, not Geno I'm sure he would have loved to have her available...
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MilfordHusky
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It’s amazing that this issue simply won’t die.
Just a few more thoughts:
I think that Cat nailed it, including the overly strong terms used. Candace’s non-selection was puzzling, certainly on the surface; it was not a tragedy.
USA Basketball is not stupid. They chose a team in 2016 to give them the best chance of winning, which they did in record-setting fashion. The only somewhat close game was the one that Sue missed with an injury, which suggests that Sue Bird was the MVP.
Candace’s tweet about opting out of the 2017 scrimmage is proof that she has an attitude, does not value the World Cup, and does not appreciate having to try out. She sealed her fate with USA Basketball by that tweet. I can’t imagine Tamika Catchings doing something like that. Once a prima donna, always a prima Donna.
Just a few more thoughts:
I think that Cat nailed it, including the overly strong terms used. Candace’s non-selection was puzzling, certainly on the surface; it was not a tragedy.
USA Basketball is not stupid. They chose a team in 2016 to give them the best chance of winning, which they did in record-setting fashion. The only somewhat close game was the one that Sue missed with an injury, which suggests that Sue Bird was the MVP.
Candace’s tweet about opting out of the 2017 scrimmage is proof that she has an attitude, does not value the World Cup, and does not appreciate having to try out. She sealed her fate with USA Basketball by that tweet. I can’t imagine Tamika Catchings doing something like that. Once a prima donna, always a prima Donna.
Biff
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JS
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The author was a hack.I recall a poem once written that clearly laid out the case of D being a ball hog. Certainly not a team player's M.O. But, I'm sure that you will just denigrate the reputation/expertise of the author anyway....
EricSD
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Very well said.
RockyMTblue2
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I recall a poem once written that clearly laid out the case of D being a ball hog. Certainly not a team player's M.O. But, I'm sure that you will just denigrate the reputation/expertise of the author anyway....
Geno's immortal line: "I didn't bring you here to pass." She yawned and went about being the coach on the floor her senior year.
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Yes and as I said I went by memory..... perhaps it was that i was never a great Boozer fan.... and he always made the teams..... i know Laettner was on the 92 dream team... but it was a requirement i think that one college player be named to the team so didn't have a problem with that one.... perhaps i should back off on Coach k.... after all i really do like him.... much i like parker as well
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