Ramona Shelburne weighs into Parker-Auriemma

[msf22b]

"It's a lot like a great orchestra," Auriemma said. "Everybody is playing their particular instrument and may be the best in the world at that. But that doesn't mean that you get to do your own thing because all of a sudden it's not an orchestra anymore. It's just a bunch of individuals trying to show how good they are.
____________________
Just a note of modest disagreement with regard Geno's orchestra quote.

Most major orchestra's do hold to Geno's thesis for reason of routine,
comfort...you must remember that with 52-week seasons, major orchestras are doing a minimum of 36 weeks of 7 service weeks...4 rehearsals and 3 performances and a certain workplace ease is required...And that requires an sense of predictability, a comfort zone, no one sticking out, not making it difficult for the others (and the conductor).

But, actually, this premise is not necessarily conducive to great art...which requires the freest spirits imaginable, a tone...a unique voice, artistic sensibility, the gift of the turn of the phrase...even...gasp...unpredictability.

No, you don't want this is the middle of the violin section, where all must find a single, unified voice...but you do want it in your principal winds...oboe especially, horn, trumpet, clarinet...and if it turns up in a string section leader, especially an inner voice like viola or double bass, so much the better.

That was our (collective) philosophy...Yes, we learned to adjust, to become an unusually special team, but mainly by following and emulating the unique,
individual voices, that inspired our ensemble to be so special.

I remember 25 years or so ago, perhaps our most special artist, was invited...no summoned...to take the audition for a principal chair of the Chicago Symphony...then the perhaps the greatest orchestra in the world. A former colleague of mine, the principal clarinet, with whom I served in the West Point Band, had insisted that this was (rightly) the guy with whom he wanted to make music with for the next 20 years. And damn the torpedoes.

He was absolutely correct, the artist in question was like none other...And our guy didn't even get past the prelims...Most of the audition committee were unwilling to deal with that level of expressive freedom ...except for the one or two who understood what unique artistry was and were willing to chance it on a daily basis.

A different approach, yes, but perhaps the correct model.

What this all has to do with woman's BB, I don't know.

 

[CocoHusky]

My 13 year old grandaughter is more mature than you Candace! Maybe you should spend time with Tamika and Kara to learn how to have class!!!

 

[CL82]

"It's a lot like a great orchestra," Auriemma said. "Everybody is playing their particular instrument and may be the best in the world at that. But that doesn't mean that you get to do your own thing because all of a sudden it's not an orchestra anymore. It's just a bunch of individuals trying to show how good they are.
____________________
Just a note of modest disagreement with regard Geno's orchestra quote.

Most major orchestra's do hold to Geno's thesis for reason of routine,
comfort...you must remember that with 52-week seasons, major orchestras are doing a minimum of 36 weeks of 7 service weeks...4 rehearsals and 3 performances and a certain workplace ease is required...And that requires an sense of predictability, a comfort zone, no one sticking out, not making it difficult for the others (and the conductor).

But, actually, this premise is not necessarily conducive to great art...which requires the freest spirits imaginable, a tone...a unique voice, artistic sensibility, the gift of the turn of the phrase...even...gasp...unpredictability.

No, you don't want this is the middle of the violin section, where all must find a single, unified voice...but you do want it in your principal winds...oboe especially, horn, trumpet, clarinet...and if it turns up in a string section leader, especially an inner voice like viola or double bass, so much the better.

That was our (collective) philosophy...Yes, we learned to adjust, to become an unusually special team, but mainly by following and emulating the unique,
individual voices, that inspired our ensemble to be so special.

I remember 25 years or so ago, perhaps our most special artist, was invited...no summoned...to take the audition for a principal chair of the Chicago Symphony...then the perhaps the greatest orchestra in the world. A former colleague of mine, the principal clarinet, with whom I served in the West Point Band, had insisted that this was (rightly) the guy with whom he wanted to make music with for the next 20 years. And damn the torpedoes.

He was absolutely correct, the artist in question was like none other...And our guy didn't even get past the prelims...Most of the audition committee were unwilling to deal with that level of expressive freedom ...except for the one or two who understood what unique artistry was and were willing to chance it on a daily basis.

A different approach, yes, but perhaps the correct model.

What this all has to do with woman's BB, I don't know.

I enjoyed this post. I think of classical musicians as disciplined artists faithfully reproducing music with the confines of the arrangement and the conductor's vision. Jazz on the other hand, I view as a group of individuals each with their own vision working collectively to produce their own version of piece with the audience being privy to the"debate" about what that vision ought to be. Thanks for your experienced insight!

 

[JRRRJ]

It wasn't juvenile at all. Several fans wanted to know why she wasn't included. Many were going after Team USA, again. She tweeted this and put those rumors to rest. It needed to be said.

"Putting it to rest" would have been: "I chose not to go for my own reasons." "Fool me once..." is juvenilely putting the blame for your actions onto someone else.

 

[Bayareahusky]

I also went back and did the research. 2o06 was the only year there were two former Duke players in the team...it was WC, not the Olympics. And one of the two in 2006 was All-NBA (Elton Brand). Carlos Boozer was All-NBA when he was selected to the 2008 Olympics. Kyrie Irving was All-NBA when he was selected for the 2014 WC (where he won MVP) and the 2016 Olympics. Mason Plumlee was not an All-NBA selection when he was picked, but all of the Olympians chose not to play in that year's WC, so the team was comprised of the next-tier players and younger ones at that.

Thx for checking.... as it turns out, I was mistaken..... I am glad you did the checking not me!

Coach K is a wonderful coach..... although he gave us a gift in (i think 2004) when we both had stars in foul trouble in first half.... Calhoun sat his star (I think Okafor) while Coach K left Elton Brand in ... and he picked up his 3rd before halftime....

 

[Bayareahusky]

Holdsclaw IMO best Tennessee player ever!

Ya I am right with you. Also, Catchings was a beast.... stuck like glue to her man...... credit to Catchings and her game.

 

[Plebe]

It wasn't juvenile at all. Several fans wanted to know why she wasn't included. Many were going after Team USA, again. She tweeted this and put those rumors to rest. It needed to be said.

I'm sorry but you're wrong. When the training camp attendees were first announced, it was also announced that Candace had been invited but declined her invite. Mechelle Voepel, in her initial article, wrote the following:

There are some players, including past Olympians Candace Parker (Los Angeles) and Angel McCoughtry (Atlanta), who declined invitations to this camp because of other commitments, injuries and rest requirements. That does not mean they won't be eligible for future USA Basketball events.​

If not for Candace's childish tweet (and yes, it was childish and unprofessional), none of us would've known she was acting out of spite.

 

[Bayareahusky]

"It's a lot like a great orchestra," Auriemma said. "Everybody is playing their particular instrument and may be the best in the world at that. But that doesn't mean that you get to do your own thing because all of a sudden it's not an orchestra anymore. It's just a bunch of individuals trying to show how good they are.
____________________
Just a note of modest disagreement with regard Geno's orchestra quote.

Most major orchestra's do hold to Geno's thesis for reason of routine,
comfort...you must remember that with 52-week seasons, major orchestras are doing a minimum of 36 weeks of 7 service weeks...4 rehearsals and 3 performances and a certain workplace ease is required...And that requires an sense of predictability, a comfort zone, no one sticking out, not making it difficult for the others (and the conductor).

But, actually, this premise is not necessarily conducive to great art...which requires the freest spirits imaginable, a tone...a unique voice, artistic sensibility, the gift of the turn of the phrase...even...gasp...unpredictability.

No, you don't want this is the middle of the violin section, where all must find a single, unified voice...but you do want it in your principal winds...oboe especially, horn, trumpet, clarinet...and if it turns up in a string section leader, especially an inner voice like viola or double bass, so much the better.

That was our (collective) philosophy...Yes, we learned to adjust, to become an unusually special team, but mainly by following and emulating the unique,
individual voices, that inspired our ensemble to be so special.

I remember 25 years or so ago, perhaps our most special artist, was invited...no summoned...to take the audition for a principal chair of the Chicago Symphony...then the perhaps the greatest orchestra in the world. A former colleague of mine, the principal clarinet, with whom I served in the West Point Band, had insisted that this was (rightly) the guy with whom he wanted to make music with for the next 20 years. And damn the torpedoes.

He was absolutely correct, the artist in question was like none other...And our guy didn't even get past the prelims...Most of the audition committee were unwilling to deal with that level of expressive freedom ...except for the one or two who understood what unique artistry was and were willing to chance it on a daily basis.

A different approach, yes, but perhaps the correct model.

What this all has to do with woman's BB, I don't know.

Think Geno meant it as a sweeping analogy.... You have definitely put a lot more thought into it than Geno ever did.

 

[cbraarj]

I would rank them Holdsclaw, Catchings, then Parker.

 

[msf22b]

Think Geno meant it as a sweeping analogy.... You have definitely put a lot more thought into it than Geno ever did.

of course

 

[meyers7]

It wasn't juvenile at all. Several fans wanted to know why she wasn't included. Many were going after Team USA, again. She tweeted this and put those rumors to rest. It needed to be said.

Rationalizations are more important than sex. I mean, have you ever gone a week without a rationalization?

 

[Trappa]

Coco, I think I explained adequately that I wasn't saying positively and definitively it was "never reported" about DT -- actually indicated I was avoiding saying that.

But I've never heard it said of her on or off the record, or by rumor or otherwise, have you?

If you think it's there, please accept your own invitation to engage in a deep dive comparing two players, one of whom was dragged into the conversation by DaddyChoc.

When you're done, I trust you can report that "There's no needle in that haystack."

Or DC can speak for himself if he thinks there's similar stuff out there about DT, which I doubt.

Time to give it a rest, far as I'm concerned.

I have heard rumors about Dee being difficult to play with that are said to have stemmed with a few disgruntled former professional teammates, WNBA and Europe. A few you can probably guess at (Pierson, Pondexter in her early post-Phoenix years).

In all, in team sports, I think a lot of these issues come down to personalities clashing. Parker has a strong personality (as does Dee for that matter, since that's the comparison for some reason). I don't know the point I'm trying to make. Just that there's stuff being said about people from all sides, I guess.

 

[CocoHusky]

I have heard rumors about Dee being difficult to play with that are said to have stemmed with a few disgruntled former professional teammates, WNBA and Europe. A few you can probably guess at (Pierson, Pondexter in her early post-Phoenix years). In all, in team sports, I think a lot of these issues come down to personalities clashing. Parker has a strong personality (as does Dee for that matter, since that's the comparison for some reason). I don't know the point I'm trying to make. Just that there's stuff being said about people from all sides, I guess.

The point that I'm struggling to make is that Parker is and has always been a difficult (you say strong) "personality". A difficult or strong personality
is not a good enough reason for Candace to be left off the 2016 Olympic team. Was Candace any less of a difficult personality in 2012 that she was in 2016? Is Candace any less of a difficult personality than say Angel or Brittney? When DT and Simone are on the court together does anyone remember that they once came to blows?

 

[meyers7]

The point that I'm struggling to make is that Parker is and has always been a difficult (you say strong) "personality". A difficult or strong personality
is not a good enough reason for Candace to be left off the 2016 Olympic team. Was Candace any less of a difficult personality in 2012 that she was in 2016? Is Candace any less of a difficult personality than say Angel or Brittney? When DT and Simone are on the court together does anyone remember that they once came to blows?

I believe they came to kisses.

 

[CocoHusky]

I believe they came to kisses.

 

[paisan]

Sour grapes ...get over it

 

[Florida Fan]

Candace Parker is a great player, dominating college basketball at Tennessee and a WNBA all star. I was surprised she was not on the National Team. Beyond that, my ignorance is showing. If a true snub, she should have no trouble getting up for teams like the Lynx, with many Olympic participants and a couple of UCONN stalwarts. A recent Vol-Nation posting suggested that Geno no longer has a recruiting edge because he retired from coaching the national team. We may never leave the acidity associated with the historical (hysterical) Husky-Vol rivalry. But lets wait for a something new based on team parity.

 

[CocoHusky]

Candace Parker is a great player, dominating college basketball at Tennessee and a WNBA all star. I was surprised she was not on the National Team. Beyond that, my ignorance is showing. If a true snub, she should have no trouble getting up for teams like the Lynx, with many Olympic participants and a couple of UCONN stalwarts. A recent Vol-Nation posting suggested that Geno no longer has a recruiting edge because he retired from coaching the national team. We may never leave the acidity associated with the historical (hysterical) Husky-Vol rivalry. But lets wait for a something new based on team parity.

Just how old do you think I am? I don't want to waste my remaining years waiting for "parity" between UCONN and TN in WCBB.

 

[huskeynut]

Candace Parker is a great player, dominating college basketball at Tennessee and a WNBA all star. I was surprised she was not on the National Team. Beyond that, my ignorance is showing. If a true snub, she should have no trouble getting up for teams like the Lynx, with many Olympic participants and a couple of UCONN stalwarts. A recent Vol-Nation posting suggested that Geno no longer has a recruiting edge because he retired from coaching the national team. We may never leave the acidity associated with the historical (hysterical) Husky-Vol rivalry. But lets wait for a something new based on team parity.

Vol Nation would love for Geno to become irrelevant in recruiting. As usual they forget he is still involved with USA basketball. He was there this past summer. Vol Nation can suggest anything they want. Doesn't mean they know what they are talking about. And NO - there is no future parity for UConn/ Tenn.

 

[Bayareahusky]

The point that I'm struggling to make is that Parker is and has always been a difficult (you say strong) "personality". A difficult or strong personality
is not a good enough reason for Candace to be left off the 2016 Olympic team. Was Candace any less of a difficult personality in 2012 that she was in 2016? Is Candace any less of a difficult personality than say Angel or Brittney? When DT and Simone are on the court together does anyone remember that they once came to blows?

Yes Candace has a strong "personality" .... she is no doormat, and she stands up for herself.... and I admire her for that..... from my time in sales management, I remember my very best producers also be the most difficult to get along with..... and it certainly was my responsibility to make the adjustment, because dealing with their difficult ways was paying me a handsome paycheck. As long as their being difficult was not affecting the rest of the team, and it was not unethical, then I made the adjustment.

With the national team.... this could have been the scenario.... but with the US national team, there were so many alternatives, nobody was beyond reproach. If Sue, Tamika, or Simone wanted to "be difficult", then there was no problem finding a suitable replacement....

Not suggesting that this was the case..... just saying that tolerance level for anything that you wanted was very very low.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Candace Parker is a great player, dominating college basketball at Tennessee and a WNBA all star. I was surprised she was not on the National Team. Beyond that, my ignorance is showing. If a true snub, she should have no trouble getting up for teams like the Lynx, with many Olympic participants and a couple of UCONN stalwarts. A recent Vol-Nation posting suggested that Geno no longer has a recruiting edge because he retired from coaching the national team. We may never leave the acidity associated with the historical (hysterical) Husky-Vol rivalry. But lets wait for a something new based on team parity.

Geno now has more time for recruiting. Dawn replacing Geno helps Dawn, but doesn't hurt Geno. Geno left a legacy with USA Basketball that is unmatched.

 

[HumblePie]

Candace was extended an invitation to this last camp and turned it down. That's on her.

Yeah, that's on her and it's highly unlikely that any other self-respecting super talent wouldn't have done the same. She is one of the best in the game and that snub was outrageous mean spirited (regardless of whose decision it supposedly was).

 

[CocoHusky]

Yeah, that's on her and it's highly unlikely that any other self-respecting super talent wouldn't have done the same. She is one of the best in the game and that snub was outrageous mean spirited (regardless of whose decision it supposedly was).

Actually Brittney Griner also turned down an opportunity to play in 2012 when USA basketball was obviously saving a spot for her.
2012 Olympics: Brittney Griner Says No to Team USA
BTW I have no issue with Candace turning down the invitation, her tweet about "fool me once ... fool me twice" was what I had an issue with. Come on Candace, you went to TN, how hard do you think it is to fool you?

 

[bschwartz]

If Geno actually chose the team and had a beef with Lady Vols, why was Catchings on the 2016 Olympic team?

 

[HumblePie]

Actually Brittney Griner also turned down an opportunity to play in 2012 when USA basketball was obviously saving a spot for her.
2012 Olympics: Brittney Griner Says No to Team USA
BTW I have no issue with Candace turning down the invitation, her tweet about "fool me once ... fool me twice" was what I had an issue with. Come on Candace, you went to TN, how hard do you think it is to fool you?

Hey, c'mon, at least have your comments make sense! You supposedly have no problem with her turning down the invitation, but disliked her posted reason for doing so ... even though that reason couldn't have been more obvious and/or understood! Where Parker went to school has absolutely nothing to do with her talent. It should also not have been (if it was?) a reason why she was left off the team. Your snip at TN and Parker for selecting that school demonstrates your lack of BB knowledge. Have you forgotten that Parker led TN (a highly respected program) to two (2) consecutive national championships, and was a two-time consensus national player of the year while there? She was blatantly snubbed and it was one of the most outrageous bonehead decisions ever made in the selection of a USA team. All those involved should have been held accountable and banned from any further selection process.