Providence offer

[Kitaman]

Excuse me? What accomplishments do you have over the last 10 years? We have 2 NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS in that time. Do you really think you're equal to us, because I don't recall you ever winning one? The NIT from the '60s doesn't count, just like we won't count our NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP from the '90s.

If you argue against with crazy person (or one who speaks crazy) what does that make you? The guy is fishing with no bait, I'm sure you know when not to get hooked. Try and look, laugh and not bite. Hopefully he will go cast in another lake when the fish are not biting.

 

[seanmc94]

Excuse me? What accomplishments do you have over the last 10 years? We have 2 NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS in that time. Do you really think you're equal to us, because I don't recall you ever winning one? The NIT from the '60s doesn't count, just like we won't count our NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP from the '90s.

The NIT in the 60's was the national championship. FACT.

Never claimed to be equal. I'm not delusional. I was responding to the poster that wanted reasons why PC was more relevant to UCONN than Seton Hall. Reading comprehension 101.

 

[Huskybass]

Aside from a few meaningless regular season wins against UConn, what has Providence actually accomplished since it got knocked out of the 2004 NCAA tournament? In that same time span UConn has won 2 National Championships and went to another final four. Providence is relevant mostly due to proximity. KO outcoached Cooley badly in the final game of the season and UConn won without Calhoun, Giffey, Olander and Wolf. PC is only 13-23 in the Big East under Cooley. PC just isn't at the level you seem to think they are at.

 

[upstater]

And in his latest post, he managed to wipe away 5 UCLA championships from the 1960s, and 2 Cincy national championships, all because Oscar Robertson and Lew Alcindor weren't good enough to compete against PC.

 

[tzznandrew]

The NIT in the 60's was the national championship. FACT.

Never claimed to be equal. I'm not delusional. I was responding to the poster that wanted reasons why PC was more relevant to UCONN than Seton Hall. Reading comprehension 101.

I'm actually going to disagree with your "FACT."

I think the 1960s NIT was more packed with good teams, but that doesn't mean that the team that won the NIT was better than the team that won the NCAAs. It may have been more difficult some years to win the NIT, but that's different.

PC won the NIT in 1961 over St. Louis, and they beat Holy Cross, Niagra, and DePaul to get there. They finished 24-5
Cincy won the NCAA in 1961, and they beat Texas Tech, Kansas State, Utah, and Ohio State. They finished 27-3.

PC won the NIT in 1963 over Canisius, and they beat Marquette and Miami (FL) to get there. They finished 24-4.
Loyola won the NCAA in 1963 over Cincy, and they beat Duke, Illinois, Mississippi State, and Tennessee Tech to get there. They finished 29-2.

And the next year started UCLA's run. Clearly by that point the NCAA champ was better.

I don't know all the mechanisms or history behind the NIT and NCAA. I wasn't even born. My mom wasn't even born. Yet to claim something so definitively as a fact when a quick look at the facts suggests it's more complicated than that is silly.

 

[tzznandrew]

And in his latest post, he managed to wipe away 5 UCLA championships from the 1960s, and 2 Cincy national championships, all because Oscar Robertson and Lew Alcindor weren't good enough to compete against PC.

Even worse for his argument--Oscar wasn't on the two title teams. He graduated after the 1959-1960 season, falling to California in the Final Four, after doing the same the year before.

They won back to back titles without Robertson, after losing in two final fours before, and one after (to Loyola).

 

[upstater]

Even worse for his argument--Oscar wasn't on the two title teams. He graduated after the 1959-1960 season, falling to California in the Final Four, after doing the same the year before.

They won back to back titles without Robertson, after losing in two final fours before, and one after (to Loyola).

Hah! Like you, I wasn't alive back then, so I didn't even know that. Thnx.

 

[Yonick]

The NIT in the 60's was the national championship. FACT.

Never claimed to be equal. I'm not delusional. I was responding to the poster that wanted reasons why PC was more relevant to UCONN than Seton Hall. Reading comprehension 101.

The NIT was much more prestigous in the 60's than it is today. But, most of the 60's included the John Wooden led UCLA teams. They were far more important than the PC NIT champs. And, yes PC would be more attractive for UConn than SHU, except for the N.J. HS talent base.
As far as UConn playing PC in the future, we probably will alternate PC with other C-7 former rivals. Same as our old Yankee conference rivals, same as the CT D-1 teams. We alternate and play each once every 5-6 years.
I've said this before, regarding the C-7, PC ranks behind St. John's, 'Nova, & G'town in atractiveness to UConn. Just look at the H.S. talent in those cities, vs the H.S. talent in Providence.
If you were Warde Manuel, and/or Kevin Ollie, what teams would you choose (objectively!!!)

 

[upstater]

UConn has never really had rivals.
CBS and ESPN will be choosing games for UConn in the next several years.
I keep saying this: look at our TV schedule. How is CBS and ESPN going to fill up that schedule except by having UConn play top teams? There is no way.

It has already started with Maryland at Barclay's.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Aside from a few meaningless regular season wins against UConn, what has Providence actually accomplished since it got knocked out of the 2004 NCAA tournament? In that same time span UConn has won 2 National Championships and went to another final four. Providence is relevant mostly due to proximity. KO outcoached Cooley badly in the final game of the season and UConn won without Calhoun, Giffey, Olander and Wolf. PC is only 13-23 in the Big East under Cooley. PC just isn't at the level you seem to think they are at.

Ok, we have firmly established that PC isn't at UConn's level. So now what? We can only schedule Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, Duke, UCLA, Indiana, Arizona, Michigan State, Florida, maybe Syracuse and Louisville if we're feeling kind. Perhaps Michigan makes the grade if they get to the final this year? Who gives a crap people? If we only had home and homes with schools "on our level" we wouldn't have any freaking games. PC is the closest D1 team that is consistently in the RPI top 100. Comparing them to Hartford, CCSU or Fairfield is not remotely accurate or fair. They are solidly the second best program in New England, with UMass perhaps not too far behind.

Scheduling priority in the A-Metro whatever league looks like this. 1. Any BCS top 5 conference foe that will play us home and home in football if we do they same in hoops 2. Big time, big name games likely to be carried by CBS or other national broadcaster in prime time (preferably also in category #1). 3. Regional rivals that count as top 100 or top 50 RPI wins. 4. Filler.

Unfortunately, we went from a league with one or two sub 100 RPI teams, to one with half the teams in that category. Half the league is filler. The days of being able to play filler teams just at home in the non-conference is over. Maybe one a year, or two at the most if one is somebody like Harvard that might be decent. That doesn't mean we load up with Top 20 teams either, it means we need schools 50-100 in the RPI. Local is better to cut our soon to be obscene travel costs. PC is a perfect fit. St. Johns and Villanova are as well.

 

[Waquoit]

I'm actually going to disagree with your "FACT."

Exactly, once the 60's rolled around the NIT was past peak. It was mostly the ECAC with a couple others sprinked in.

 

[upstater]

Ok, we have firmly established that PC isn't at UConn's level. So now what? We can only schedule Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, Duke, UCLA, Indiana, Arizona, Michigan State, Florida, maybe Syracuse and Louisville if we're feeling kind. Perhaps Michigan makes the grade if they get to the final this year? Who gives a crap people? If we only had home and homes with schools "on our level" we wouldn't have any freaking games. PC is the closest D1 team that is consistently in the RPI top 100. Comparing them to Hartford, CCSU or Fairfield is not remotely accurate or fair. They are solidly the second best program in New England, with UMass perhaps not too far behind.

Scheduling priority in the A-Metro whatever league looks like this. 1. Any BCS top 5 conference foe that will play us home and home in football if we do they same in hoops 2. Big time, big name games likely to be carried by CBS or other national broadcaster in prime time (preferably also in category #1). 3. Regional rivals that count as top 100 or top 50 RPI wins. 4. Filler.

Unfortunately, we went from a league with one or two sub 100 RPI teams, to one with half the teams in that category. Half the league is filler. The days of being able to play filler teams just at home in the non-conference is over. Maybe one a year, or two at the most if one is somebody like Harvard that might be decent. That doesn't mean we load up with Top 20 teams either, it means we need schools 50-100 in the RPI. Local is better to cut our soon to be obscene travel costs. PC is a perfect fit. St. Johns and Villanova are as well.

Do the math. You're assuming a large number of regular season games with your #s 1-4. Just do the math. You can't get picked up 4 times on ESPN and CBS with home games AND play holiday tourneys AND a conference schedule, and then turn around and fulfill the requirements of #3 and #4. There are not enough games. The only way to do #3 is to get rid of most of #4. And that right there is the problem.

Not to mention that this conference is going to be a bit more competitive than people are assuming. Remember, UCF has beaten UConn within the last couple of years. I expect at least one loss to such teams. CUSA wasn't all that bad. That So. Mississippi team I watched had some talent. Then you couple that with road games at Temple, Cincy and Memphis, and UCon could easily be looking at a 11-13 win season in conference. 4 games against top level competition, 2 or 3 more holiday tourney games, half of which could result in losses, and you've got your work cut out for you.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Do the math. You're assuming a large number of regular season games with your #s 1-4. Just do the math. You can't get picked up 4 times on ESPN and CBS with home games AND play holiday tourneys AND a conference schedule, and then turn around and fulfill the requirements of #3 and #4. There are not enough games. The only way to do #3 is to get rid of most of #4. And that right there is the problem.

Not to mention that this conference is going to be a bit more competitive than people are assuming. Remember, UCF has beaten UConn within the last couple of years. I expect at least one loss to such teams. CUSA wasn't all that bad. That So. Mississippi team I watched had some talent. Then you couple that with road games at Temple, Cincy and Memphis, and UCon could easily be looking at a 11-13 win season in conference. 4 games against top level competition, 2 or 3 more holiday tourney games, half of which could result in losses, and you've got your work cut out for you.

I did the math. We need to reduce #4. This conference will be dreadful. Our RPI SOS will be lousy. We must schedule up the OOC schedule compared to our recent history. It is essential. You're worried about a road game vs. Temple? Please, none of those three teams is at all scary. #4 is replaced by the soft league schedule. We really shouldn't lose more than 2-3 games in this league.

Look at this year's OOC schedule.
http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/conn-m-baskbl-sched.html
AIU, Lowell, MSU, Vermont, WF, Quin, Stony Brook, NH, NC State, Harvard, MD Eastern Shore, Fordham, Washington.

All I'm proposing is swapping out AIU, Lowell, MD Eastern Shore and maybe one other with games against PC, UMass, St. Johns and Villanova. Our schedule will need it. Hell, just to keep the fans interested.

 

[Husky68]

I'll take peecee over Vermont every day.

No need for us after winning a few 'chips' to get stuck up and too good to play peecee.

Would you play both home/away - that seems to be some of the issue?

 

[upstater]

I did the math. We need to reduce #4. This conference will be dreadful. Our RPI SOS will be lousy. We must schedule up the OOC schedule compared to our recent history. It is essential. You're worried about a road game vs. Temple? Please, none of those three teams is at all scary. #4 is replaced by the soft league schedule. We really shouldn't lose more than 2-3 games in this league.

Look at this year's OOC schedule.
http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/conn-m-baskbl-sched.html
AIU, Lowell, MSU, Vermont, WF, Quin, Stony Brook, NH, NC State, Harvard, MD Eastern Shore, Fordham, Washington.

All I'm proposing is swapping out AIU, Lowell, MD Eastern Shore and maybe one other with games against PC, UMass, St. Johns and Villanova. Our schedule will need it. Hell, just to keep the fans interested.

If you did the math, then you sank UConn's budget. Because when I do the math I get 18 conference + 4 home & homes + 4 holiday games leaves me at 26 games. You've gone from 9 or 10 cupcakes to 4. That's a loss of gate for 5 or 6 games.

Temple isn't scary? UConn lost to South Florida and St. John's and Villanova and Cincy. None of those teams were as good as Temple, and yet UConn lost to them. That's the point. UConn will lose games like that. Always have.

The way for UConn to ramp up its schedule is to move from 1 or 2 home and homes against national competition to at least 4 home and homes. That's the difference. If they can't get national games like that, then you play PC, but if UConn isn't getting enough national games, you'll have to explain to me who CBS and ESPN are going to show on their stations.

 

[upstater]

Would you play both home/away - that seems to be some of the issue?

Exactly.

 

[tzznandrew]

We really should have fought for an 16 game schedule, maybe even a 14 game one.

This year, if we get Memphis, Temple, Cincy, and Louisville twice, our SOS will be fine. After that, though, we need enough room to get some gate sales as well as a number of quality opponents.

 

[FriarJ]

Would you play both home/away - that seems to be some of the issue?

Maybe they could rotate, one year in Storrs, one in Providence, then one in Brooklyn or at the Prudential Center?

 

[upstater]

We really should have fought for an 16 game schedule, maybe even a 14 game one.

This year, if we get Memphis, Temple, Cincy, and Louisville twice, our SOS will be fine. After that, though, we need enough room to get some gate sales as well as a number of quality opponents.

I think the problem will be attendance rather than RPI. People won't be enthused by UCF, East Carolina and Tulsa, but RPI wise they've been OK. 102, 104 and 128. It's Houston and SMU at around 200 that need to improve for the RPI to look decent.

 

[tzznandrew]

I think the problem will be attendance rather than RPI. People won't be enthused by UCF, East Carolina and Tulsa, but RPI wise they've been OK. 102, 104 and 128. It's Houston and SMU at around 200 that need to improve for the RPI to look decent.

No, I agree. If you replaced 2 league home games with 2 games from Home and Homes against decent teams, I think we're in better shape.

People will turn out for UConn-PC. They'd turn out more for UConn-Kansas...but they ain't really going to turn out for UConn-ECU/UConn-UCF.

 

[upstater]

Maybe they could rotate, one year in Storrs, one in Providence, then one in Brooklyn or at the Prudential Center?

That's what we mean by home/away. The issue is a home&home series the likes of which UConn has recently scheduled against Texas, Tennessee, North Carolina, Indiana. Again, I'd love to play Providence, but someone needs to explain how UConn is going to manage to live up to the conference's new TV deals. CBS is showing 6 network games. Maybe this is arrogant, but I'm going to assume that 2 of the new conference's 6 games are going to have UConn as the home team. So, suddenly, UConn's OOC schedule jumps from 1 or 2 such games a year to at least 4. That's the change necessitated by being in a weaker conference. If the conference hadn't just signed a contract with CBS, none of this would be an issue at all, since UConn would likely find it much easier to schedule former BE teams.

 

[FriarJ]

That's what we mean by home/away. The issue is a home&home series the likes of which UConn has recently scheduled against Texas, Tennessee, North Carolina, Indiana. Again, I'd love to play Providence, but someone needs to explain how UConn is going to manage to live up to the conference's new TV deals. CBS is showing 6 network games. Maybe this is arrogant, but I'm going to assume that 2 of the new conference's 6 games are going to have UConn as the home team. So, suddenly, UConn's OOC schedule jumps from 1 or 2 such games a year to at least 4. That's the change necessitated by being in a weaker conference. If the conference hadn't just signed a contract with CBS, none of this would be an issue at all, since UConn would likely find it much easier to schedule former BE teams.

Are you saying that UConn can only play 2 OOC road games and both of these have to be broadcast on CBS? I'm slow but I'm still a bit confused on what exactly the problem is here.

 

[HuskyHawk]

That's what we mean by home/away. The issue is a home&home series the likes of which UConn has recently scheduled against Texas, Tennessee, North Carolina, Indiana. Again, I'd love to play Providence, but someone needs to explain how UConn is going to manage to live up to the conference's new TV deals. CBS is showing 6 network games. Maybe this is arrogant, but I'm going to assume that 2 of the new conference's 6 games are going to have UConn as the home team. So, suddenly, UConn's OOC schedule jumps from 1 or 2 such games a year to at least 4. That's the change necessitated by being in a weaker conference. If the conference hadn't just signed a contract with CBS, none of this would be an issue at all, since UConn would likely find it much easier to schedule former BE teams.

You will note that I had games against those who will play us home-home in football as #1 and big name games as #2. So in this I agree, if you can get a home and home with Wisconsin, Cal, Oklahoma State, that needs to happen. But we played 5-6 totally crap teams last year. We can afford to upgrade that to one home one road against PC. St. Johns etc. and four crappy games. You only lose one home game. CBS is sure as hell not going to put UConn vs. UMass-Lowell or AIU on tv. Versus PC or St, Johns, yeah, they might. So if you want to fill that slate for CBS, you need more quality home and homes and fewer cupcakes at home. Enough to ensure we've got 2-3 good home non-conference games a year.

 

[upstater]

Are you saying that UConn can only play 2 OOC road games and both of these have to be broadcast on CBS? I'm slow but I'm still a bit confused on what exactly the problem is here.

In order to have 2 HOME games against national teams for CBS Network each year, UConn will need to schedule four such games a year. 2 home, 2 away. Coupled with holiday tourneys, that will leave UConn with only 4 or 5 cupcakes to keep up ticket sales at home. Again, we don't know how this is going to play out because I'm only assuming CBS will want UConn for 2 of the 6 contracted network games. Maybe they won't. If they don't, then this does not present a problem.

The game against Maryland to kick off the season next year is already contracted by ESPN. Then UConn travels to Washington, which also isn't a home game that can be shown on CBS. So already that's 2 big OOC games that can't be shown on CBS.

 

[upstater]

You will note that I had games against those who will play us home-home in football as #1 and big name games as #2. So in this I agree, if you can get a home and home with Wisconsin, Cal, Oklahoma State, that needs to happen. But we played 5-6 totally crap teams last year. We can afford to upgrade that to one home one road against PC. St. Johns etc. and four crappy games. You only lose one home game. CBS is sure as hell not going to put UConn vs. UMass-Lowell or AIU on tv. Versus PC or St, Johns, yeah, they might. So if you want to fill that slate for CBS, you need more quality home and homes and fewer cupcakes at home. Enough to ensure we've got 2-3 good home non-conference games a year.

This is my exact point. You have to insure enough home OOC games against top national opponents each year. In order to do that, you have to schedule a lot of home and homes. It goes without saying that I'm assuming CBS Network would have little interest in UConn-Providence. When you add the numbers up, this leaves UConn with 4 or 5 open games (depending on holiday tourneys). So, every time you schedule a team that won't be shown on CBS (like Providence) you reduce the number of cupcakes. In this scenario, you're down to 3 cupcake games. I'm sure the fans will like that. I wonder if the AD's office will as it loses revenue.

 

[captainron2]

Would you play both home/away - that seems to be some of the issue?

It's not home and away every year... It's alternating home games...

 

[FriarJ]

In order to have 2 HOME games against national teams for CBS Network each year, UConn will need to schedule four such games a year. 2 home, 2 away. Coupled with holiday tourneys, that will leave UConn with only 4 or 5 cupcakes to keep up ticket sales at home. Again, we don't know how this is going to play out because I'm only assuming CBS will want UConn for 2 of the 6 contracted network games. Maybe they won't. If they don't, then this does not present a problem.

The game against Maryland to kick off the season next year is already contracted by ESPN. Then UConn travels to Washington, which also isn't a home game that can be shown on CBS. So already that's 2 big OOC games that can't be shown on CBS.

Is the CBS contract only for OOC games?

 

[HuskyHawk]

This is my exact point. You have to insure enough home OOC games against top national opponents each year. In order to do that, you have to schedule a lot of home and homes. It goes without saying that I'm assuming CBS Network would have little interest in UConn-Providence. When you add the numbers up, this leaves UConn with 4 or 5 open games (depending on holiday tourneys). So, every time you schedule a team that won't be shown on CBS (like Providence) you reduce the number of cupcakes. In this scenario, you're down to 3 cupcake games. I'm sure the fans will like that. I wonder if the AD's office will as it loses revenue.

I think a game against Providence or St. Johns or Nova could absolutely be shown on CBS. Those teams are just as big as Tennessee for example.

 

[upstater]

I think a game against Providence or St. Johns or Nova could absolutely be shown on CBS. Those teams are just as big as Tennessee for example.

Say wha? You're kidding, right? Providence = Tennessee? No.

 

[upstater]

Is the CBS contract only for OOC games?

6 conference, 6 OOC