Paterno and Spanier both fired!

[meyers7]

In 1998, a PSU security guard told Sandusky to stop taking showers with kids. SHOWERS WITH KIDS!!!! How did Paterno not know this was going on!

Then he is even more culpable than Paterno.

 

[Icebear]

IceBear, this seems appropriate:


Proverbs 24:10-12

New International Version (NIV)

Saying 25
10 If you falter in a time of trouble,
how small is your strength!
11 Rescue those being led away to death;
hold back those staggering toward slaughter.
12 If you say, “But we knew nothing about this,”
does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?
Does not he who guards your life know it?
Will he not repay everyone according to what they have done?

Absolutely, and it applies to all involved. Those who say they knew nothing need to be honest with themselves, their faith, and their community.

 

[Aluminny69]

Some background information:
Penn State Scandal Timeline

 

[Icebear]

I will share this now because it is now more appropriate and it makes a point.

Joe Paterno is an incredibly humble man and for someone in his station one of the most humble I have met. I have heard him give a funeral eulogy for a former player in our Central PA hamlet. A man who died leading a group on Denali when he fell into a crevasse on the mountain. The player's name was Terry "Mugs" Stump. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mugs_Stump and http://www.thecleanestline.com/2009/02/the-dream-a-journey-of-the-spirit-with-mugs-stump.html ) Mugs was a defensive back on the All Decade team of the 1970s. His father was a fellow Lions Club member with me and a wonderful character.

I have never heard Joe speak of himself except in the simplest terms. Joe until yesterday was still paid only $1 million approximately in an era where his peers are measured in multimillion dollar contracts. He lived emerged in the State College community and made no assumptions of privilege. When he went to campus plays and programs he did not have special reserved seats and was as likely to sit in the 22nd row as the first. In fact, you might well have had Sue and Joe sit next to you. He is more likely to ask questions about you and your work than himself. His house is a very normal house in town. Joe is a very simple man.

 

[HuskyNan]

Of course, that horrendous abuse is the source of the outrage and it deserves every bit of it. Let the legal process is not any kind of self rationalization. It is the only way we have of understanding the real facts instead of pure emotion.

With all due respect, I find your cold-bloodedness repulsive. Parsing all the legal mumbo-jumbo and analyzing each article to assign the proper amount of blame to the proper person is a fine way to distance yourself emotionally from the news, I guess, but I can't be like that. It's an emotional issue and I am appalled, horrified and sickened that defenseless children were abused time and again, first by Sandusky then by Penn State. Asking us to look at the situation analytically is a hopeless exercise, at least for me.

 

[Icebear]

Some background information:
Penn State Scandal Timeline

I mentioned that having the timeline in order helps tremendously. It is, also, important to keep in mind who spoke to whom and whom they did not appear to talk to.

 

[Icebear]

With all due respect, I find your cold-bloodedness repulsive. Parsing all the legal mumbo-jumbo and analyzing each article to assign the proper amount of blame to the proper person is a fine way to distance yourself emotionally from the news, I guess, but I can't be like that. It's an emotional issue and I am appalled, horrified and sickened that defenseless children were abused time and again, first by Sandusky then by Penn State. Asking us to look at the situation analytically is a hopeless exercise, at least for me.

Cold-bloodedness? Come on, Nan, that is beneath you. Trying to be dispassionate, sure. What is gained for all these kids by simple raw emotion, nothing. Emotion fades and then what is left. Only by pursuing things to the right legal end benefits all, including every kid who may be hurt by anyone anytime in the future. Over reaction fans things so much that it discourages many from ever reporting anything and that harms everyone including more kids in the future.

 

[pap49cba]

Cold bloodedness? Come on, Nan, that is beneath you. Trying to be dispassionate, sure. What is gained for all these kids by simple raw emotion, nothing. Emotion fades and then what is left. Only by pursuing things to the right legal end benefits all including every kid who may be hurt by anyone anytime in the future. Over reaction fans things so much that it discourages many from ever reporting anything and that harms everyone.

Over reaction????

 

[Icebear]

Over reaction????

Over heated reactions if you want. I'm speaking of the runaway media like Mike and Mike the last three days most often based in speculation broad guesses of motives and what people knew and what they would do.

The emotional reactions of people are perfectly understandable. We have a choice of what to do with it.

As to all of us who self righteously believe we would have acted differently statistics tell us that this is not true. TV hidden cams, also, tell us it is not true. We live in the culture of "Don't get involved."

http://www.omaha.com/article/20111110/NEWS01/711109875

It is a human problem not uniquely American.

http://www.oacas.org/newsroom/releases/surveyresults06oct4.pdf

If we all did what is right we wouldn't need mandated reporter laws. We simply could rely on the moral good nature of all, but that is the very thing people now criticize as missing in Joe.

 

[alexrgct]

The legal process can, will, and should take a lot of time. In the interim, the PSU BOT made a decision to try to preclude further reputational damage to their school, athletic department, and brand. They had every right to act swiftly and decisively, and given the nature of the issues at hand, it was the appropriate decision.

I don't doubt that JoePa has carried himself with humility and dignity in many big and small ways, but this is not a failure that can be overlooked. Unfortunately, we are often judged based on the worst things we've done (or worst cases of neglect). Just how it is. JoePa is going to have to live with that. Tough life, dude.

 

[Icebear]

The legal process can, will, and should take a lot of time. In the interim, the PSU BOT made a decision to try to preclude further reputational damage to their school, athletic department, and brand. They had every right to act swiftly and decisively, and given the nature of the issues at hand, it was the appropriate decision.

I don't doubt that JoePa has carried himself with humility and dignity in many big and small ways, but this is not a failure that can be overlooked. Unfortunately, we are often judged based on the worst things we've done (or worst cases of neglect). Just how it is. JoePa is going to have to live with that. Tough life, dude.

He would and has been the first to say that.

 

[BrooklynKid]

Penn St. created a culture where informing the police of an alleged crime would have been a no-no. When you have coaches and janitors too scared to pick up a phone and dial 911, you've got serious issues. Folks were more concerned about job security, donations and tradition. They failed to do the right thing.

 

[vtcwbuff]

I will share this now because it is now more appropriate and it makes a point.

Joe Paterno is an incredibly humble man and for someone in his station one of the most humble I have met. I have heard him give a funeral eulogy for a former player in our Central PA hamlet. A man who died leading a group on Denali when he fell into a crevasse on the mountain. The player's name was Terry "Mugs" Stump. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mugs_Stump ) His father was a fellow Lions Club member with me. I have never heard Joe speak of himself except in the simplest terms.

Joe until yesterday was still paid only $1 million approximately in an era where his peers are measured in multimillion dollar contracts. He lived emerged in the State College community and made no assumptions of privilege. When he went to campus plays and programs he did not have special reserved seats and was as likely to sit in the 22nd row as the first. In fact, you might well have had Sue and Joe sit next to you. He is more likely to ask questions about you and your work than himself. His house is a very normal house in town. Joe is a very simple man.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Ice - The timeline provided by CFer is very informative. Paterno allowed this predator to continue molesting young boys for years after he was aware of it. He did so by his indifference, inaction or a deliberate desire to keep it quiet. I can't understand why you continue to defend him. It doesn't matter that he is a coaching legend or that he's a "simple" man. He will leave Penn State in deserved disgrace after a legendary career.

Try removing the name of Joe Paterno from this and maybe you will come to the same conclusion that the rest of us have. If this were coach Schmuck at any school but PSU, you would be calling for his head.

 

[EricLA]

this seems like it's going to go on for a very long time. especially trying to figure out exactly who knew about the abuses, and why they did nothing about it (ie. reporting it, etc). it is a very sad way for a legend to go out, but very deserved. i don't pretend to know all the facts - in cases like this we rarely do - but one should always err on the side of caution when dealing with abuses of children. i'm not saying rush to judgment, but if there is any hard evidence, then they should act immediately which is what the trustees did...

the whole situation is incredibly disturbing. i'm sure we are all sickened by the accusations and any time things happen to defenseless children, it makes the crime all the more egregious. i'm not trying to diffuse any of the anger or disgust people feel, and as i said, if the trustees have proof of wrong doing by the HC and president, they were right to fire them.

they also should fire anyone else who had any knowledge or was involved in any kind of cover up. but i do agree that an investigation should be done ASAP and all the guilty parties punished accordingly. i just hope it doesn't turn into a witch hunt with innocent adults getting thrown under the bus along with the guilty ones.

 

[UConnCat]

I'm going to speak up on behalf of the media's coverage of this issue. The media is often criticized for its coverage of issues; some criticism is deserved, some is not. But I think most media outlets -- at least the ones I've been following -- have been covering this issue thoroughly, respectfully, tastefully and fairly. The Harrisburg Patriot-News' reporting on two of the victims and their families has been outstanding. The NY Times has provided its typical excellent coverage.

I'm not a fan of ESPN's Mike and Mike show only because I have no interest in the sport (pro football) the show spends most of its time covering. But I like both Mikes and I believe Mike Greenberg is an outstanding sports journalist. The show has in many ways expressed the varied and complex emotions all of us are feeling over this tragedy. It has honored Paterno the man and his legacy by reaching out to former players and Paterno's friends and allowed them to express their emotions and thoughts about what has happened. Every former player whose interview I heard (i.e., Millen, Blackledge, Posluszny) agreed that the BOT made the right decision, notwithstanding their love for Paterno. BTW, Posluszny, who played at PSU from 2003-2007 stated that Sandusky was "definitely around [the program] and visible," and Sandusky's charity was often a vehicle for players to volunteer in the community and Sandusky was always present. Think about that. Posluszny was speaking of his time at PSU after 2002.

Finally, and most importantly, Mike and Mike have rightly not allowed their listeners to forget the real victims of this tragedy and their families.

 

[Icebear]

As I said all along let the information keep coming out for better or worse. There has been no need to rush once the kids were protected.

 

[meyers7]

With all due respect, I find your cold-bloodedness repulsive.

Really Nan? Isn't that a bit much?

Parsing all the legal mumbo-jumbo and analyzing each article to assign the proper amount of blame to the proper person is a fine way to distance yourself emotionally from the news, I guess, but I can't be like that.

Luckily some people can distance themselves from the emotional. Otherwise who would be judges, police, investigators, doctors, etc. Some people just have the ability to to do that. Doesn't make them "cold blooded" or repulsive. Or shouldn't anyway. You should be glad for people like that. And we should be glad people like you are not in positions of authority where emotions can hold sway.

 

[huskies2go]

If this is true it sure will be a major issue for Penn State that is unprecedented!

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-s...ung-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html

 

[Icebear]

Be patient and let it keep coming out.

 

[meyers7]

Statement from Second Mile organization came out the other day. Looks like they separated themselves from Sandusky awhile back.

http://www.thesecondmile.org/welcome.php

 

[Kibitzer]

I just grows and grows.

The case is now being made that Sandusky left in 1999 with some sort of a cover-up deal aout his shameful activities.

Another story is emerging in rumor form now that reveals (if true) an unimaginable level of depravity. I hope it is NOT true. We'll soon see.

 

[Icebear]

Statement from Second Mile organization came out the other day. Looks like they separated themselves from Sandusky awhile back.

http://www.thesecondmile.org/welcome.php

Yes, they have but what about his relationship with all these kids in the past. Remember second Mile was founded by Sandusky in 1977.

 

[meyers7]

Yes, they have but what about his relationship with all these kids in the past. Remember second Mile was founded by Sandusky in 1977.

Just saying it doesn't look like they just recently separated themselves from him (well at least separating him and the kids) when all this came out, but rather back a few years when they first found out about stuff. Unlike Penn St.

How accurate their statement is though I have no idea.

 

[cardfan]

As stated here and in the media, there are many parallels to the Catholic church and PSU scandal. I have to wonder if more women were in leadership positions in higher education/athletics and the Catholic church, there would possibly be fewer cases because a woman would act quicker after hearing or seeing such abuses to powerless children. Jaycee Dugard case is a prime example, it took 2 women police officers at Cal's campus who noticed something was wrong and questioned the abuser.