Paterno and Spanier both fired!

[RedLight]

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" Edmund Burke

I will add that good men who do nothing in the face of evil cease to be good men.

Joe Paterno was a good coach, that does not make him a good man. After reading the grand jury report I am more than convinced of that. The fish stinks from the head down.

 

[Icebear]

Just saying it doesn't look like they just recently separated themselves from him (well at least separating him and the kids) when all this came out, but rather back a few years when they first found out about stuff. Unlike Penn St.

How accurate their statement is though I have no idea.

The separation was supposedly in 2008-9. To the best of my knowledge that was true.

These stories began to appear in the local media in PA back in March when the Grand Jury was convened.

 

[Kait14]

Forget Paterno, what if the DA in 1998 had decided to prosecute the original case. Even if he had lost the public would have been alerted and forewarned. If so, even the 2000 and 2002 victims might have been spared and all of this mess. That was a legal authority with real authority who stepped aside. The DA had sufficient proof of inappropriate behavior including statement from Sandusky of inappropriate behavior and the department of someone from youth and family services. Why do we not have evidence of them ever warning the university or passing on the information, if so, Sandusky might have been completely isolated and eliminated from any use of campus facilities. If the university was informed then I am livid.

Idk if anyone has said this because I just started reading the thread and came across this, but the DA that had been overseeing the case went missing and turned up dead.....

 

[Kait14]

I have such a strong opinion about this that it is absolutely impossible for me to be rational. My father was molested, so this hits extremely close to home for me. Not only should Mike McQueary be absolutely shamed of himself, but I wish he could be put away for violating the Good Samaritan Law, but I don't think it covers this sort of thing. McQueary is a COWARD. How ANY human being can witness something as ATROCIOUS as a 55 year old man sodomizing a 10 year old boy and WALK AWAY is so BEYOND me that I can't wrap my brain around it. Not only did he walk away and continue to let it occur, but he ran to his DADDY to ask him what to do. I'm sorry, you are a 28 year old MAN. What the hell are you running to your daddy asking advice for?! Any rational man, even HUMAN for goodness sake, would have done SOMETHING to get that little boy out of there. The cover-up, which is becoming so apparent it's sickening, and the absolute neglect of those little boys is so disgusting. That entire staff needs to go. Considering they've all been there for 30+ years, PSU needs a clean sweep; of every administrator in that athletic department that has been there since 98. Because of these cowardly men, who KNOWS how many little boys' lives have been ruined. The fact that Sandusky has CONTINUED to be allowed on campus is ludicrous. In 1998, when Penn State found out and basically slapped Sandusky on the wrist and said, "Listen. We are going to take away your key to the facilities, and you aren't allowed to bring little boys on campus anymore. We don't care if you do it elsewhere, just don't do it on campus." Football at Penn State supersedes life. Time for them to start over. I wish the NCAA cared about actual crimes, instead of giving schools death penalties for providing their athletes with clothing. I'm so disgusted with Penn State and the administrators at this institution that I WISH they could receive the NCAA death penalty.

I was getting SO fired up watching those idiotic students at Penn State rioting last night. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! If you are going to protest something, UNDERSTAND what exactly you are protesting. It's become so clear over the passed few days that people from State College are in their own world and have absolutely NO idea of the magnitude of this situation. I was embarrassed for my generation last night. There was ONE student who understood the situation that ESPN interviewed, and was disgusted with the students rioting. ONE.. out of 2,000. Every time more information comes out I just become more enraged. Enabling a pedophile is nearly as disgusting as being a pedophile.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Idk if anyone has said this because I just started reading the thread and came across this, but the DA that had been overseeing the case went missing and turned up dead.....

No. The DA who oversaw the 1998 case disappeared in 2005. His body has never been found. He is presumed dead but no-one knows for sure.

 

[intlzncster]

As stated here and in the media, there are many parallels to the Catholic church and PSU scandal. I have to wonder if more women were in leadership positions in higher education/athletics and the Catholic church, there would possibly be fewer cases because a woman would act quicker after hearing or seeing such abuses to powerless children. Jaycee Dugard case is a prime example, it took 2 women police officers at Cal's campus who noticed something was wrong and questioned the abuser.

Honestly don't think it would make much difference. We are talking about an enormous amount of power, prestige and money involved here (not just the individuals involved, but the institution/brand as a whole). People will go to extreme lengths to satisfy those hoary masters. In these situations, people quite often just get in line. All people are corruptible. The idea that women are somehow 'morally superior' to men is a bit much.

 

[intlzncster]

I have such a strong opinion about this that it is absolutely impossible for me to be rational. My father was molested, so this hits extremely close to home for me.
...That entire staff needs to go. Considering they've all been there for 30+ years, PSU needs a clean sweep; of every administrator in that athletic department that has been there since 98.... Because of these cowardly men, who KNOWS how many little boys' lives have been ruined. The fact that Sandusky has CONTINUED to be allowed on campus is ludicrous.

While you are certainly justified in being emotionally involved in the situation, you can't just go cleaning house in totality. You'd be firing a ton of innocent people, thereby making the situation and its affects worse than they already are. You'd ruin a ton of innocent folks' and their families' lives to satisfy a need for revenge. I'd bet that the vast majority of the Athletic Department had no clue. This is something that certain people were trying to keep under wraps, which implies that they weren't spreading stories to all their colleagues and underlings.

Find out the people involved, and deal with them as individuals. Don't execute people who weren't involved.

There was ONE student who understood the situation that ESPN interviewed, and was disgusted with the students rioting. ONE.. out of 2,000. Every time more information comes out I just become more enraged. Enabling a pedophile is nearly as disgusting as being a pedophile.

It's the same really. Which brings to mind something I've been wondering about...where were the parents of the abused boys over the years (the ones that knew)? Why the hell didn't one of them go to the police and or at least make this all public (anonymously) long ago? If that happened to my kid, I wouldn't rest until I nailed that guy. A pedophilic act doesn't strike me as a one time deal. A number of innocent kids might have been spared.

If parents did go to the police, etc, and the police didn't help, then all the policemen involved are as culpable as Paterno. Same with legislature, etc.

 

[Icebear]

Idk if anyone has said this because I just started reading the thread and came across this, but the DA that had been overseeing the case went missing and turned up dead.....

He never turned up at all, Kait. He was declared dead in absentia just this past July . He is presumed dead. The mystery surrounding his disappearance and his destroyed computer hard drive is one more anomally in this horrible situation.

 

[cardfan]

Honestly don't think it would make much difference. We are talking about an enormous amount of power, prestige and money involved here (not just the individuals involved, but the institution/brand as a whole). People will go to extreme lengths to satisfy those hoary masters. In these situations, people quite often just get in line. All people are corruptible. The idea that women are somehow 'morally superior' to men is a bit much.

I didn't say women were morally superior to men. I agree that it's about power, prestige, and money. So, who has all 3, especially at PSU and Ftball? Men.

My pt was women and men ARE different, and IF more women were in power, (in catholic church and higher ed), things may be different. You don't think our instincts and reactions and behaviors to situations, especially those affecting children are different? Jaycee Dugard story is prime example. All the male parole officers missed it for years and years, but 2 women spotted something amiss and acted on it.

 

[Kibitzer]

There remains one mystery to me. Paterno kept coaching to age 84. I am uncertain of interim coach Tom Bradley's age but I read that he has been at PSU as an assistant for 30+ years. Sandusky was retired at age 55.

Was his retirement completely voluntary? Was he pushed out the door? Given a nudge? Or was there some sort of a sub rosa agreement between him and the administration ("We are aware of what's been going on and want to keep the lid on it, so you retire and nobody says a word and the great image of PSU remains untarnished") that enabled Paterno's #2 guy and heir-apparent to leave at a relatively early age with a nice retirement package?

Maybe I am missing something but based on what I now know, something about Sandusky's age 55 retirement smells bad to me.

 

[Icebear]

This piece by Joe Posansky says everything I have tried to say for the last few days and says it vastly better than I have or could. He speaks of all of the emotions, the rage, and the runaway train this has become. His observations are from ground zero in State College. As I have said repeatedly, be patient and let it play out. When all the facts are known there will be plenty of time to condemn the right people, if that includes Joe and McQueary fine but let the facts be gathered.

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/11/10/the-end-of-paterno/

 

[Icebear]

There remains one mystery to me. Paterno kept coaching to age 84. I am uncertain of interim coach Tom Bradley's age but I read that he has been at PSU as an assistant for 30+ years. Sandusky was retired at age 55.

Was his retirement completely voluntary? Was he pushed out the door? Given a nudge? Or was there some sort of a sub rosa agreement between him and the administration ("We are aware of what's been going on and want to keep the lid on it, so you retire and nobody says a word and the great image of PSU remains untarnished") that enabled Paterno's #2 guy and heir-apparent to leave at a relatively early age with a nice retirement package?

Maybe I am missing something but based on what I now know, something about Sandusky's age 55 retirement smells bad to me.

All great questions, Kib, and ones that must be answered. Let it all play out.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

This piece by Joe Posansky says everything I have tried to say for the last few days and says it vastly better than I have or could. He speaks of all of the emotions, the rage, and the runaway train this has become. His observations are from ground zero in State College. As I have said repeatedly, be patient and let it play out. When all the facts are known there will be plenty of time to condemn the right people, if that includes Joe and McQueary fine but let the facts be gathered.

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/11/10/the-end-of-paterno/

I agree with that Ice. I am just overwhelmed by the perversion of Sandusky and the ensuing cover up thereof.

 

[Aluminny69]

NYTimes has an article about the 1998 investigationsYou may need a sign in)
Investigation of Sandusky in 1998 Raises Questions

A lengthy police report was generated, state prosecutors said. The boy was interviewed. A second potential victim was identified. Child welfare authorities were brought in. Sandusky confessed to showering with one or both of the children. The local district attorney was given material to consider prosecution.
In the end, no prosecution was undertaken. The child welfare agency did not take action. And, according to prosecutors, the commander of the university’s campus police force told his detective, Ronald Schreffler, to close the case.
“Sandusky admitted showering naked with Victim 6, admitted to hugging Victim 6 while in the shower and admitted that it was wrong,” said the report issued last weekend by the Pennsylvania attorney general. “Detective Schreffler advised Sandusky not to shower with any child again and Sandusky said that he would not.”

Lauro, the investigator for the state welfare department in 1998, said he was aware during the investigation that Sandusky was a prominent local figure, but that it did not affect his work.
“Was he a high-profile person?” Lauro asked. “I’d have to be stupid to tell you no. Everybody knew him.”
At the time of his investigation, Lauro said, all the child said was that Sandusky showered with him, and it made him uncomfortable. Lauro said he didn’t feel that was enough to substantiate a sexual-abuse complaint.
Lauro suggested that the child, now grown, had told the grand jury convened by the attorney general a much more explicit account.
Lauro said he has felt worse and worse as the scandal has unfolded, particularly when he read quotations in a newspaper from a victim’s mother blaming him and other officials for not doing more to stop Sandusky.
“I feel bad that there was not more information so I could have done something,” he said. “I feel bad that the mom thinks I should’ve done more. I just didn’t have all the information back then.”

 

[Aluminny69]

In the "You can't make this up" category, Sandusky's 2001 autobiography is entitled:
Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story

I definitely agree with this comment: "I, for one, would like to see him spend the rest of his life locked up with the general prison population; then, perhaps he can write the sequel entitled "Touched II: Predator Becomes Prey".

 

[Icebear]

In the "You can't make this up" category, Sandusky's 2001 autobiography is entitled:
Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story

I definitely agree with this comment: "I, for one, would like to see him spend the rest of his life locked up with the general prison population; then, perhaps he can write the sequel entitled "Touched II: Predator Becomes Prey".

I hope that no one orders Sandusky's book as it will only provide him income.

 

[Icebear]

Alum, for me that whole 1998 episode is when it all went wrong. What impact did the failure to prosecute and make public the behavior Sandusky was accused of have on cooling the whole situation and people's expectations. The DA and Children's Services were both aware. Who knew about the situation and could keep watch on Sandusky.

 

[Icebear]

I agree with that Ice. I am just overwhelmed by the perversion of Sandusky and the ensuing cover up thereof.

I understand, Oz, blessings on you and all of us who a disgusted by these events and most certainly the victims and their families.

 

[UConnCat]

USA Today has a front page story on Victim 1. Without his courage and that of his mother, Sandusky would likely still be committing crimes and the shroud of secrecy would still be in place. In a story utterly lacking in heroes, Victim 1 is surely the exception. BTW, note that Victim 1's mother was initially dissuaded from pursuing an investigation of the man with "a heart of gold."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/coll...dusky-investigation-victim-1-cover/51160950/1

 

[Northeast86]

Let's play a game and switch the circumstances up a bit:

The Grad Asst. walks into the shower and sees Sandusky raping Paterno. Grad Asst goes to Beloved Asst Coach (BAC) BAC goes to AD and College Prez and does EXACTLY what Paterno did in the real situation. Question: Would everyone be supporting BAC like they are Paterno? Would people be asking for patience, although we know that Paterno knew what happened- Paterno acknowledges he should have done more- very little ambiguity as to what Paterno knew and what Grad Asst. saw.

People also need to understand lack of prosecution does not mean someone did not break a crime. One of my professors always talked about "prosecutorial discretion." Basically the DA/AG office could have seen the evidence and thought: "Is there enough to make a solid case against Paterno?" If yes: "Is this a case we can win?" It is quite possible that they simply thought trying the 84 year old Paterno would simply be an exercise in futility. Reading certain posters on this board and the disgusting support for him from Penn State students and PA residents makes me wonder if a conviction would even be possible (again this is IF he did break the law).

 

[Northeast86]

And as I read "Break a Crime" I realize that proofreading before you post instead of after is better. How about "Break law" or if you prefer "committed a cri

 

[Northeast86]

"Committed a crime" And not to try to make light of a serious topic- but I can not post today. Perhaps I will practice more this season by gushing over Stefanie Dolson's beautiful post moves.

 

[Moose]

I don't understand why PSU continued to cover up for Sandusky in 2002 after he'd already been disassociated from the university in 1998. Does that make sense?

 

[Aluminny69]

I don't understand why PSU continued to cover up for Sandusky in 2002 after he'd already been disassociated from the university in 1998. Does that make sense?

He was not "disassociated." He was allowed to resign, but given emeritus status, along with several perks, including access to all athletic facilities. Sandusky has been on campus as late as last Sunday.

ETA: Found this:

"Sandusky's ‘emeritus' position, alleged negotiated as part of his 1999 retirement, provided him with an office in the Lasch Football Building; unlimited access to all football facilities, including the locker room; access to all recreational facilities; a parking pass; a university Internet account; listing in the faculty directory and numerous other privileges – he had remained a regular presence on campus."

 

[Icebear]

Let's play a game and switch the circumstances up a bit:
The Grad Asst. walks into the shower and sees Sandusky raping Paterno. Grad Asst goes to Beloved Asst Coach (BAC) BAC goes to AD and College Prez and does EXACTLY what Paterno did in the real situation. Question: Would everyone be supporting BAC like they are Paterno? Would people be asking for patience, although we know that Paterno knew what happened- Paterno acknowledges he should have done more- very little ambiguity as to what Paterno knew and what Grad Asst. saw.

The reversal of the situation is inane. But yes, I would insist on letting the details play out for whoever was involved once the risk to future children or others was secured. And no we do not know what Paterno knew except in general terms, we do know in more detail what McQueary saw. Nor do we know if Joe inquired from Curley what had become of the situation and was told, "yes, it was followed up by the campus police." Paterno has acknowledged he wishes he had done more in hindsight. That hind sight includes everything we all know now.