Parker off Olympic team?

[UcMiami]

nah... you know what I mean, we're a bunch of fat guys posting opinion. These players faced them all, but of course the committee does the selecting... let's throw in that "GOD" has the final say. People are discrediting Tina Thompson, a Top 10 20 all time geesh. I'm sure you had CP3 on you list 6 months ago, or maybe not, you don't like her attitude

Course I had her on my list - the one I dropped about 2 years ago was the other TN player - Catchings.
I'm just saying of the various WBB committees and organizations I am most impressed with the USA group - they have strung together amazing success at all levels. I do occasionally question some of their choices, but not very often - they seem to get good coaches and good teams together very consistently and they have a good eye for chemistry and glue type players - various HS pundits always scream about this great player or that one being left out of a team but they seem to get it right.
My specific problem with Tina is: where was her outrage when a much less accomplished Parker was being selected as a college player and a recent college graduate to teams she was leading and why didn't she accuse Pat of undue influence and poisoning decades of accomplishment. If she can answer that, I'll shut up.

 

[Icebear]

You are right, statistics from the Olympics should never get in the way of a incorrectly conceived notion.

Shot blocking is one aspect of defense, what about rotation and on ball. What stat are you pointing towards from the Olympics.

Shot blocking and steals can look like strong D on stats but may not be so simple since both often require cheating off primary responsibilities which may or may not lead to problems. Kelly Mazzante had many steals at PSU but frequently at the cost of missing many steal attempts and giving up points behind her.

 

[CocoHusky]

When she was at Minnesota, I watched Zahui B. rack up a ton of blocked shots by basically standing just outside the line and stuffing people who were stupid enough to drive right at her.

Rotating to the ball =/= making proper rotations. If you always follow the ball, you'll get more blocks. You'll also leave the player you're supposed to be guarding wide open. It's a net negative, but your block total will look real good.

What you are proposing is preposterous=basketball sacrilege. A post player like Zahui B must always rotate to the ball. Think about it. What? She's going to rotate (away) from the ball when the ball is already in the post at the basket? She also not going to stay with her man because the most dangerous player on the floor is the one with the ball. He teammates are counting on that rotation. Do you really not understand this or are you just pulling my leg?

 

[Icebear]

Universal Basketball Truth: You can't block shots without playing "on ball defense or rotating to the ball"!

This is not true at all. Griner had record blocks just waiting at the base of the D and letting players come to her. She made little rotation. Watching CP throughout college she regularly was lost by players and did not rotate well. Stats do not tell you about breakdowns that lead to certain stat accumulations. Stats will point you towards what to watch for on video resulting in an outcome but not what cause led to that final outcome. I have watch many players get beat off the dribble and then get the back door block after they were passed.

 

[mtsuraider06]

Course I had her on my list - the one I dropped about 2 years ago was the other TN player - Catchings.
I'm just saying of the various WBB committees and organizations I am most impressed with the USA group - they have strung together amazing success at all levels. I do occasionally question some of their choices, but not very often - they seem to get good coaches and good teams together very consistently and they have a good eye for chemistry and glue type players - various HS pundits always scream about this great player or that one being left out of a team but they seem to get it right.
My specific problem with Tina is: where was her outrage when a much less accomplished Parker was being selected as a college player and a recent college graduate to teams she was leading and why didn't she accuse Pat of undue influence and poisoning decades of accomplishment. If she can answer that, I'll shut up.

Pat wasn't the WC/Olympic coach in 2006/2008, so how could she impose influence over who was selected. Also, Candace didn't take the spot of a Lisa Leslie/Diana/Sue at the time.

If Geno was only the coach at UConn, and had no affiliation with USA Basketball in over 20 years (like Pat at that time), there wouldn't be the questions of coaching influence regarding Stewart being on the team over Candace.

 

[CocoHusky]

What stat are you pointing towards from the Olympics.

Shotblocking in which CP led the team in the 2012 Olympics.
Rebounding in which CP led the team in the 2012 Olympics.
A perimeter player simply cannot over a series of games lead the best team in the world in those two categories without busting it with both on the ball defense and executing proper defensive rotations. #NOTPOSSIBLE! The game tapes are on youtube. There were two exceptional defensive players from the 2012 USA Olympic team CP was one and the other was Angel who was at times a game changing menace defensively.

 

[Icebear]

Angel is a far better defensive player than CP.

 

[Icebear]

Shotblocking in which CP led the team in the 2012 Olympics.
Rebounding in which CP led the team in the 2012 Olympics.
A perimeter player simply cannot over a series of games lead the best team in the world in those two categories without busting it with both on the ball defense and executing proper defensive rotations. #NOTPOSSIBLE! The game tapes are on youtube. There were two exceptional defensive players from the 2012 USA Olympic team CP was one and the other was Angel who was at times a game changing menace defensively.

The stat I would be more interested in with CP is her +/- while playing.

 

[Orangutan]

What you are proposing is preposterous=basketball sacrilege. A post player like Zahui B must always rotate to the ball. Think about it. What? She's going to rotate (away) from the ball when the ball is already in the post at the basket? She also not going to stay with her man because the most dangerous player on the floor is the one with the ball. He teammates are counting on that rotation. Do you really not understand this or are you just pulling my leg?

Not pulling your leg. My observation is that Zahui didn't get blocks from rotating over. She got blocks from people coming straight at her spot in Minnesota's zone.

*shrug*

 

[CocoHusky]

This is not true at all. Griner had record blocks just waiting at the base of the D and letting players come to her. She made little rotation. Watching CP throughout college she regularly was lost by players and did not rotate well. Stats do not tell you about breakdowns that lead to certain stat accumulations.

This is almost comical. A blocked shot is not recorded unless you are literally on the ball. If you are already in the post and the ball is also in the post WHERE are you rotating to? Career Stats: CP 2.4 Blocks/Game : Breanna Stewart 2.7 Blocks/Game.

 

[CocoHusky]

Not pulling your leg. My observation is that Zahui didn't get blocks from rotating over. She got blocks from people coming straight at her spot in Minnesota's zone.

*shrug*

If you are already in the post and the ball is also in the post WHERE are you rotating to? SMH.

 

[Orangutan]

If you are already in the post and the ball is also in the post WHERE are you rotating to? SMH.

I'm not saying she was doing anything wrong. She was doing what that defense asked of her. But those weren't blocks that came from rotations. I guess it's "on-ball" defense of a sort but when I think of "on-ball" defense I'm thinking about trying to stop someone from getting in the lane in the first place not blocking their shot when they've already done so.

Anyhow, yes, some blocks come from making rotations. But that's just one part of playing good defense. Closing out on 3-point shooters is unlikely to lead to blocks but is important to playing great team defense. That kind of thing doesn't show up in stats.

 

[meyers7]

I think the 2018 WC may well be a huge transition - Catchings and Bird gone, and certainly questions about DT, Whalen, Augustus, McCoughtry, and Fowles that I think if still there in 2018 will certainly not make the 2020 Olympic team - that is at least seven openings off of this team - five new guard/wings a center and a forward.

I expect DT to hang around for at least the WC's (2018), or try to. Augustus too.

Fowles is only 30. She has a decent shot at the 2020's. If Catchings, Bird, DT, Whalen can all play at 34+, Fowles might/should be able to also. McCoughtry will only be 33. She might have another in her also.

 

[meyers7]

The more I think about this decision, I think it comes back to shooting ability. As good as Parker is, she is not as good a shooter as either Stewart or EDD, which are most likely the two players she was competing against fort the final sport on the roster. I am thinking that the committee decided to go with the best shooters, which may have been where Parker was considered weaker.

You are probably on to something there.

 

[CocoHusky]

Angel is a far better defensive player than CP.

Apples, oranges & bananas. CP is PF and occasionally SF. Angel is SG and occasionally SF.

 

[CocoHusky]

You are probably on to something there.

Easily supported by the numbers too.

 

[meyers7]

We've spent 3 or 4 days getting into it and finally flamed out.
What the wider community...esp players think is significant, very significant
Has to do with the rights and prerogatives of labor and all that Jazz; very American.

Probably won't change anything, at least now.
But may very well affect the process in the future.

I think its important, very important.

Dev is a tough young lady, I commend her for being (the first)? active player to take a stance.
Will the floodgates now open?...we'll see.

What does she have against EDD? (the only "rookie" on the WNT)

 

[meyers7]

thanks for providing facts. CP3 should be on the team. Bone and Peters are closer to the game than any of us and is just showing their respect for CP3's talent. You have your opinion and so should they

I think the point is, why should we care about their opinion.

 

[UcMiami]

Pat wasn't the WC/Olympic coach in 2006/2008, so how could she impose influence over who was selected. Also, Candace didn't take the spot of a Lisa Leslie/Diana/Sue at the time.

If Geno was only the coach at UConn, and had no affiliation with USA Basketball in over 20 years (like Pat at that time), there wouldn't be the questions of coaching influence regarding Stewart being on the team over Candace.

Well if you listen to some people Pat was women's basketball and her influence was far reaching but I grant the point.

On the 2006 team Parker was chosen over 13 WNBA all stars that year some of whom had been on the previous USA teams and the same sort of situation in 2008 though there was no all star game that year. That 2006 team is the only 'blemish' on the NT team record in a very long time.

 

[Wally East]

Here's a link the 2015 WNBA leader board for all the stats.

CP led the league in apg, which I didn't know.

 

[hoophuskee]

I'll start off by saying personally I would have picked Parker over a couple of the vets but there is a credible argument for leaving her off the team and it's purely tactical.

Floor Spacing- Think about it. Candace operates out of the post and generally doesn't have much outside range (About a 30% 3pt shooter). This issue is compounded by the fact that she can't really guard opposing 5s. Which leads to the necessity that she plays next to one of Griner, Fowles, or Charles. This limits the space for those bigs to operate and get their touches in as well as the overall team spacing in general. This has been a recurring issue with the Sparks and led to talk of them trading Ogwumike because of it

Instead by having stretch bigs (Delle Donne, Stewart and to a somewhat lesser extent Catchings) the team has ideal floor spacing with one big in the post and the rest on the floor having outside shooting without any sacrifices to the team's defense. In addition those three stretch bigs are exceptional shot blockers and help defenders. I also imagine Team USA plenty teams spreading them out with multiple shooters which makes having 2 post players not as comfortable guarding on the perimeter less than ideal.

I felt the need to post this somewhere as I saw nobody looking beyond the immediate hot take and the "She's a star" argument which is fair and expected. Again I still would have picked her over a few vets like Augustus or Catchings but there is some rationale behind leaving her off the team.

I agree about floor spacing. I think that is where part of the conversation lead. Plus she isn't "Dennis Rodman" on defense. I think it's the WRONG path. How good of shooters are Angel, Whelan and Catchings from 3? The beauty of Parker is that she is a tremendous slasher for her size. Has a great handle. She could get the ball to Griner at will. Between her and Griner the defense would have to collapse.

 

[Justavisitor]

Candace didn't play enough games to qualify for the leader board. I am surprised they are showing her assist. If she had qualified, she would have been 4th in pts, 1st in rebounds, 1st in assists, and more.

 

[Jmpenn]

Hi everyone. This situation has brought me out of posting retirement. I have been busy having a baby last year and then more recently back surgery. My 11th month old is in the 105th percentile in height and uconn can't have her. Lol.

Now about Parker being left off. I of course agree with many of you that she should be on the team. I would have picked her over about 8 players including one of my favorites Catch. Reason number 1 is her flexibility. USA basketball always talks about wanting players that can play a variety of positions since they can only take 12 players. Well that is Candace Parker. If you need her to she can bring the ball up or play in the post. Number 2. The second thing that sets her apart is her assists. I haven't looked it up but except the point guards and DT I bet she has the best assist numbers. Some try to say that she is selfish but she always try to get others involved and that is one of the most important things in USA basketball. That is one of DT's strengths also. These 2 strengths in my opinion set her apart from most of the other players. I want to thank everyone for defending her!!

 

[CocoHusky]

Hi everyone. This situation has brought me out of posting retirement. I have been busy having a baby last year and then more recently back surgery. My 11th month old is in the 105th percentile in height and uconn can't have her. Lol.

Now about Parker being left off. I of course agree with many of you that she should be on the team. I would have picked her over about 8 players including one of my favorites Catch. Reason number 1 is her flexibility. USA basketball always talks about wanting players that can play a variety of positions since they can only take 12 players. Well that is Candace Parker. If you need her to she can bring the ball up or play in the post. Number 2. The second thing that sets her apart is her assists. I haven't looked it up but except the point guards and DT I bet she has the best assist numbers. Some try to say that she is selfish but she always try to get others involved and that is one of the most important things in USA basketball. That is one of DT's strengths also. These 2 strengths in my opinion set her apart from most of the other players. I want to thank everyone for defending her!!

Welcome back. 105th percentile? Still not good enough for UCONN.
Very logical post I agree with all of your points.

 

[Plebe]

So much for her being classy about this whole thing. Candace just posted this a short time ago: