PAC dysfunction | The Boneyard

PAC dysfunction

WSU and OSU are playing nice to because they don't want to harm future relationships and that is understandable. However the money the PAC has incoming could be enough to keep those two programs operating at a P5 level for a decade, so at some point they're going to have to take the kid gloves and play for keeps by threatening or filing lawsuits. The schools that all left are trying to screw them over again by letting them twist in the wind.
 
noeynox said:
WSU and OSU are playing nice to because they don't want to harm future relationships and that is understandable. However the money the PAC has incoming could be enough to keep those two programs operating at a P5 level for a decade, so at some point they're going to have to take the kid gloves and play for keeps by threatening or filing lawsuits. The schools that all left are trying to screw them over again by letting them twist in the wind.
Expand ...

They are playing nice because that is the smart thing to do legally. The 8 departing schools' will look ridiculous if they have joined a new conference and are still claiming to be members of the Pac 12. Substance will win over form in most litigation.
 
I think there are legitimate governance issues. If the majority of the schools decide to leave, can they dissolve the conference and distribute the assets among all schools? Or, do the assets remain with the 2 left behind Pac 12 schools? So OSU and WSU have to buy the Pac 12 brand from the schools that are leaving? Maybe the conference bylaws don't clearly answer the questions.
 
Now...this is interesting in that article....

— They could attempt to preserve the Pac-12 brand and retain the assets. In that scenario, the 12 Mountain West schools could vote to dissolve their league, thereby eliminating departure penalties, and join the Pac-12 en masse.

“No brand in the Group of Five has the value of the Pac-12 brand,’’ the industry source said. “If you have the brand, you own the history.”
 
billybud said:
Now...this is interesting in that article....

— They could attempt to preserve the Pac-12 brand and retain the assets. In that scenario, the 12 Mountain West schools could vote to dissolve their league, thereby eliminating departure penalties, and join the Pac-12 en masse.

“No brand in the Group of Five has the value of the Pac-12 brand,’’ the industry source said. “If you have the brand, you own the history.”
Expand ...

This would obviously be the preferred path and I would assume most likely to happen.

Hopefully they televise on Apple and hopefully Apple is interested in generating some east coast interest for their conference. If the ACC can have west coast teams......
 
Last edited:
.-.
billybud said:
Now...this is interesting in that article....

— They could attempt to preserve the Pac-12 brand and retain the assets. In that scenario, the 12 Mountain West schools could vote to dissolve their league, thereby eliminating departure penalties, and join the Pac-12 en masse.

“No brand in the Group of Five has the value of the Pac-12 brand,’’ the industry source said. “If you have the brand, you own the history.”
Expand ...
We have been discussing this here for a month. The value is in the name. That is why the C7 bought the Big East name from Aresco and co.
 
noeynox said:
We have been discussing this here for a month. The value is in the name. That is why the C7 bought the Big East name from Aresco and co.
Expand ...
Sure, but they are also is considerable value in the exit fees. It's an interesting question as to whether or not the conference is dissolved. I would argue that the exit of the first two likely didn't dissolve the conference and immediately created a potential asset of their exit fees for the other teams including the four corner states. Whether or not the exit of the four corner schools is sufficient to cause dissolution is an interesting question. If I am Washington state or Oregon state I am arguing that these were two separate events, neither of which reach the level sufficient for dissolution. Hopefully, the bylaws provide clear guidance.
 
We need to call the mwc / pac 2 and get in as football only. Call umass or army up and see if they can join. Alternate schedule so pac 16 has a noon game each week. Make a 9 game sch 4 home 4 away one rivalry (umass or army)
 
Tfoyle said:
We need to call the mwc / pac 2 and get in as football only. Call umass or army up and see if they can join. Alternate schedule so pac 16 has a noon game each week. Make a 9 game sch 4 home 4 away one rivalry (umass or army)
Expand ...
That makes too much sense therefore won't happen. We can't have nice things.
 
whalerfan said:
That makes too much sense therefore won't happen. We can't have nice things.
Expand ...

Probably true. If ESPN ever caught wind of something like this being worked on they would move to scuttle it.

If I'm Oregon State and Washington State I'm doing everything I can to create a strong national conference streamed by Apple to scare ESPN into pulling the strings on a B12 invite for the two schools.
 
Last edited:
Yes, OSU and WSU could get rich off of exit fees and lagged NCAA tourney/CFP credits. They might do the best of all the Pac12 schools when all is said and done, if streaming destroys cable revenues in 6-7 years, and revenues re-set downward for everyone.

The departing schools will need to clean their own legal situations up, so it's in everybody's interests to sort out the legalities. If the Pac-12 wasn't keeping good books, there could be a messy negotiation occupying many months before it's all resolved.
 
.-.
JeepCSC said:
There are no exit fees since the conference waited until the end of their contract to self-destruct. The PAC stupidly tied exit fees (and GOR obviously) only to the contract length.
Expand ...
Wow, what a mess! What are the litigating about then?
 
Inevitable. They are owed, at the very least answers. The departing memebers are trying to slow play this hoping it all goes away and the remaining two are owed nothing. #RebuildThePAC.
 
.-.
I was reading a Washington State message board post that showed excerpts of the exit verbiage for the SEC and the Pac-12. The SEC's read like a contract, and the Pac's, well, didn't. The fact no one knows if USC has voting rights on Pac-12 matters a year after they announced they were leaving is crazy. Conference leadership malfeasance.
 
noeynox said:
Inevitable. They are owed, at the very least answers. The departing memebers are trying to slow play this hoping it all goes away and the remaining two are owed nothing. #RebuildThePAC.
Expand ...
It's not even that. Based upon the article, their position is that the conference is dissolved and therefore all assets have to be divided equally, or alternatively, that they are still full members of the conference and have a right to vote to dissolve.
 
Pac-12 bylaws:

Withdrawal.
No member shall deliver a notice of withdrawal to the Conference in the period beginning on July 24, 2011, and ending on August 1, 2024; provided, that if any member does deliver a notice of withdrawal prior to August 1, 2024, in violation of this chapter, the Conference shall be entitled to an injunction and other equitable relief to prevent such breach, and if a court of competent jurisdiction shall deny the Conference such injunctive relief, the Conference shall be entitled to retain all the media and sponsorship rights in the multi-player video distribution (MPVD) and telecommunications/wireless categories of the member purporting to withdraw through August 1, 2024, even if the member is then a member of another conference or an independent school for some or all intercollegiate sports competitions. Additionally, if a member delivers notice of withdrawal in violation of this chapter, the member’s representative to the CEO Group shall automatically cease to be a member of the CEO Group and shall cease to have the right to vote on any matter before the CEO Group.


So I guess the question is what constitutes a notice of withdrawal. I'd say the schools have done enough as is, but I guess courts will decide.
 
billybud said:
Now...this is interesting in that article....

— They could attempt to preserve the Pac-12 brand and retain the assets. In that scenario, the 12 Mountain West schools could vote to dissolve their league, thereby eliminating departure penalties, and join the Pac-12 en masse.

“No brand in the Group of Five has the value of the Pac-12 brand,’’ the industry source said. “If you have the brand, you own the history.”
Expand ...
That’s the smartest thing to do is to hang onto the PAC brand . If you own the brand you can claim the history. Our biggest mistake was giving away the brand. The C7 didn’t deserve a dime in fact they should have paid a reduced exit fee.for damages .
In any event when the Big East dissolved , There were various estimates of $70-100 million in the coffers . Significant *Exit fee money , and a huge amount of Basketball tournament money as the old Big East was the first in those earnings . Earning 23 units in 2011 alone . The vast majority earned by the football schools . This years 15 units earned was considered fantastic.
New schools got a bonus but , UConn , Cincinnati and USF received the bulk . As the damaged parties .
* Even TCU paid $5,000,000 and only attended 1 meetings
I believe everyone else paid at least $10,000,000 each which is cheap.
The current AAC is 15,000,000 and the MW $35,000,000
My understanding is no PAC team paid a dime ,due to a loophole in the contract . If they’re fighting for the crumbs then they should be called out as scumbags.
 
JeepCSC said:
Pac-12 bylaws:

Withdrawal.
No member shall deliver a notice of withdrawal to the Conference in the period beginning on July 24, 2011, and ending on August 1, 2024; provided, that if any member does deliver a notice of withdrawal prior to August 1, 2024, in violation of this chapter, the Conference shall be entitled to an injunction and other equitable relief to prevent such breach, and if a court of competent jurisdiction shall deny the Conference such injunctive relief, the Conference shall be entitled to retain all the media and sponsorship rights in the multi-player video distribution (MPVD) and telecommunications/wireless categories of the member purporting to withdraw through August 1, 2024, even if the member is then a member of another conference or an independent school for some or all intercollegiate sports competitions. Additionally, if a member delivers notice of withdrawal in violation of this chapter, the member’s representative to the CEO Group shall automatically cease to be a member of the CEO Group and shall cease to have the right to vote on any matter before the CEO Group.


So I guess the question is what constitutes a notice of withdrawal. I'd say the schools have done enough as is, but I guess courts will decide.
Expand ...

It sounds like a functional grant of rights through August 1, 2024 ... so WSU and OSU own the media rights to all the other schools for the 2023-24 season?
 
.-.
pj said:
It sounds like a functional grant of rights through August 1, 2024 ... so WSU and OSU own the media rights to all the other schools for the 2023-24 season?
Expand ...

Haha, that would be a hell of a warchest.
 
JeepCSC said:
Pac-12 bylaws:

Withdrawal.
No member shall deliver a notice of withdrawal to the Conference in the period beginning on July 24, 2011, and ending on August 1, 2024; provided, that if any member does deliver a notice of withdrawal prior to August 1, 2024, in violation of this chapter, the Conference shall be entitled to an injunction and other equitable relief to prevent such breach, and if a court of competent jurisdiction shall deny the Conference such injunctive relief, the Conference shall be entitled to retain all the media and sponsorship rights in the multi-player video distribution (MPVD) and telecommunications/wireless categories of the member purporting to withdraw through August 1, 2024, even if the member is then a member of another conference or an independent school for some or all intercollegiate sports competitions. Additionally, if a member delivers notice of withdrawal in violation of this chapter, the member’s representative to the CEO Group shall automatically cease to be a member of the CEO Group and shall cease to have the right to vote on any matter before the CEO Group.


So I guess the question is what constitutes a notice of withdrawal. I'd say the schools have done enough as is, but I guess courts will decide.
Expand ...
pj said:
It sounds like a functional grant of rights through August 1, 2024 ... so WSU and OSU own the media rights to all the other schools for the 2023-24 season?
Expand ...

Based on the section above, I think PJ is right. It looks like the Pac 12 schools breached their own Bylaws when they left. WSU and OSU appear to be asserting that the other members gave notice of withdrawal in violation of the bylaws. The other schools having signed with another conference is a pretty good fact pattern for WSU and OSU. Unless there is something else to work with, they are probably getting their injunction, although their rights will be limited as the only two surviving members until the litigation is settled. The assets within the Pac 12, including the 23-24 media rights, NCAA units, and whatever cash was left in the bank (I saw one estimate of $20 million) appears to be on their way to Oregon State and Washington State, eventually.

There has to be more to this story. I have no doubt that several of the schools are run by idiots, but I can't see Stanford and Cal making a mistake this big. Getting cute with the withdrawal provisions was a really stupid move if that is what happened. They should have voted as a group to amend them before they went their separate ways.

If the schools are literally leaving like $250 to $300 million in total for Oregon State and Washington State, then turning down the Apple deal will turn into one of the stupidest decisions in the history of college sports.
 
All the schools taking a discount for BIG and ACC need a subsidy
 
Tfoyle said:
We need to call the mwc / pac 2 and get in as football only. Call umass or army up and see if they can join. Alternate schedule so pac 16 has a noon game each week. Make a 9 game sch 4 home 4 away one rivalry (umass or army)
Expand ...

I don't think we need to call the MWC but we definitely should be making contact with the WSU and OSU. UConn and UMass football could join immediately once it's established that they are the sole remaining voting members of the PAC.
 
JeepCSC said:
Pac-12 bylaws:

Withdrawal.
No member shall deliver a notice of withdrawal to the Conference in the period beginning on July 24, 2011, and ending on August 1, 2024; provided, that if any member does deliver a notice of withdrawal prior to August 1, 2024, in violation of this chapter, the Conference shall be entitled to an injunction and other equitable relief to prevent such breach, and if a court of competent jurisdiction shall deny the Conference such injunctive relief, the Conference shall be entitled to retain all the media and sponsorship rights in the multi-player video distribution (MPVD) and telecommunications/wireless categories of the member purporting to withdraw through August 1, 2024, even if the member is then a member of another conference or an independent school for some or all intercollegiate sports competitions. Additionally, if a member delivers notice of withdrawal in violation of this chapter, the member’s representative to the CEO Group shall automatically cease to be a member of the CEO Group and shall cease to have the right to vote on any matter before the CEO Group.


So I guess the question is what constitutes a notice of withdrawal. I'd say the schools have done enough as is, but I guess courts will decide.
Expand ...
 
.-.
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,529
Messages
4,580,605
Members
10,491
Latest member
7774Forever


Top Bottom