PAC dysfunction

[pj]

I could see the final litigation bill in the millions. Funny when you think about it. You are sort of suing yourself suing the conference and litigating against the conference maybe in the tune of millions when all is said and done.

Jarndyce v Jarndyce, revisited. Throw the media rights from next year into a pot ($30 million * 12 schools) and litigate until the pot is empty.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I could see the final litigation bill in the millions. Funny when you think about it. You are sort of suing yourself suing the conference and litigating against the conference maybe in the tune of millions when all is said and done.

I don't think so. This is not a particularly complex legal issue. Either the departing schools can remain on the Pac 12 Board and amend the Bylaws, or they can't.

 

[JeepCSC]

Pac-12 chaos: Inside the 11 days that led to WSU and OSU taking legal action against the conference

It only took 11 days for Washington State and Oregon State to determine legal action against their own conference was necessary.

www.oregonlive.com

 

[kibblesnbits]

I’m not a lawyer but this seems straightforward. UCLA and USC lost their voting rights last year. Colorado, Oregon/Washington, the corner 4 and then Stamford/California withdrew by committing to other leagues next year (cannot meet those obligations and still meet commitments to PAC-12). Failure to submit notice seems like an attempt to fraudulently remain on the governing board when they have an established conflict of interest. If they wanted to dissolve the league they should have done so before making conflicting commitments. Bottom line: WSU and OSU should be the only members with voting rights.

 

[noeynox]

I’m not a lawyer but this seems straightforward. UCLA and USC lost their voting rights last year. Colorado, Oregon/Washington, the corner 4 and then Stamford/California withdrew by committing to other leagues next year (cannot meet those obligations and still meet commitments to PAC-12). Failure to submit notice seems like an attempt to fraudulently remain on the governing board when they have an established conflict of interest. If they wanted to dissolve the league they should have done so before making conflicting commitments. Bottom line: WSU and OSU should be the only members with voting rights.

I always operated under the assumption that was the case because of the whole USC/UCLA losing their voting status thing. Kind of disgusting the leaving schools are trying to use semantics to screw over the most screwed two schools left, but there is nothing these school presidents wouldn't do when it comes to money.

 

[JeepCSC]

I think one of the wrinkles is the exiting schools have no commitments to the PAC after July of next year. If they did nothing for 10 months, does the league die of its own accord? Is this OSU/WSU forcing the courts to keep the league on life support and the others asking the courts to pull the plug now rather than waiting for natural causes?

 

[huskymedic]

 

[kibblesnbits]

I think one of the wrinkles is the exiting schools have no commitments to the PAC after July of next year. If they did nothing for 10 months, does the league die of its own accord? Is this OSU/WSU forcing the courts to keep the league on life support and the others asking the courts to pull the plug now rather than waiting for natural causes?

Is that true? I realize that the media contract and the specific granting of rights (presumably as an approved addendum to the by-laws) ends next summer, but I’d be shocked if the overall by-laws terminated then. I’m sure the league, like any organization of interdependent members, had an agreement to on-going membership until withdrawal.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

.

I’m not a lawyer but this seems straightforward. UCLA and USC lost their voting rights last year. Colorado, Oregon/Washington, the corner 4 and then Stamford/California withdrew by committing to other leagues next year (cannot meet those obligations and still meet commitments to PAC-12). Failure to submit notice seems like an attempt to fraudulently remain on the governing board when they have an established conflict of interest. If they wanted to dissolve the league they should have done so before making conflicting commitments. Bottom line: WSU and OSU should be the only members with voting rights.

There was an attempt to dissolve the Big East but The Three who remained blocked the attempt.
Litigation was avoided but the C7 goz the name
The assets after bonuses to the new schools was divided between UConn , USF , and Cincinnati
The amount was somewhere north of $70,000,000
Exit fees plus we were the most successful basketball conference in NCAA credits
For example last year the Big East earned 15 units which was considered.huge
In 3011 the old Big East earned 23 units.

 

[Figurehead]

The idea of a conference like the MWC morphing whole and becoming the Pac 12... I had not seen...

Some might call it the Broke-Pac Mountain Conference.

 

[Figurehead]

Based on the section above, I think PJ is right. It looks like the Pac 12 schools breached their own Bylaws when they left. WSU and OSU appear to be asserting that the other members gave notice of withdrawal in violation of the bylaws. The other schools having signed with another conference is a pretty good fact pattern for WSU and OSU. Unless there is something else to work with, they are probably getting their injunction, although their rights will be limited as the only two surviving members until the litigation is settled. The assets within the Pac 12, including the 23-24 media rights, NCAA units, and whatever cash was left in the bank (I saw one estimate of $20 million) appears to be on their way to Oregon State and Washington State, eventually.

There has to be more to this story. I have no doubt that several of the schools are run by idiots, but I can't see Stanford and Cal making a mistake this big. Getting cute with the withdrawal provisions was a really stupid move if that is what happened. They should have voted as a group to amend them before they went their separate ways.

If the schools are literally leaving like $250 to $300 million in total for Oregon State and Washington State, then turning down the Apple deal will turn into one of the stupidest decisions in the history of college sports.

The 250 to 300 million is a false number based on internet info passsed on and passed on.

 

[CL82]

I think one of the wrinkles is the exiting schools have no commitments to the PAC after July of next year. If they did nothing for 10 months, does the league die of its own accord? Is this OSU/WSU forcing the courts to keep the league on life support and the others asking the courts to pull the plug now rather than waiting for natural causes?

I haven't looked at this in any detail whatsoever but isn't it only the GOR that terminates in 10 months? But, assuming you're correct, if I OSU and WSU are the only two institutions remaining, then we can all the assets just be split between the two of them?

I don't think this is a case of OSU and WSU trying to impose their wheel on anyone else, so much as not wanting to have the will of those who are leaving the conference imposed on them.

 

[JeepCSC]

I haven't looked at this in any detail whatsoever but isn't it only the GOR that terminates in 10 months? But, assuming you're correct, if I OSU and WSU are the only two institutions remaining, then we can all the assets just be split between the two of them?

I don't think this is a case of OSU and WSU trying to impose their wheel on anyone else, so much as not wanting to have the will of those who are leaving the conference imposed on them.

I don’t know. But no media contract and no GOR and no exit fees, I’m not really sure what would make it a conference in any meaningful way. This whole thing is just kinda bonkers. They should teach classes on how not to run a conference based on this mess in the future.

 

[noeynox]

Kliavkoff was an absolute disaster.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

That is why I threw out the $250 to $300 million number. I can't imagine the departing schools were so stupid as to put themselves in the position of losing their share of the revenue from media rights for this year, which is why I am assuming there is another document somewhere that says the schools can keep their share of the media revenue. I also believe that UCLA and USC were going to keep their media rights, which would support the theory that the schools keep the revenues from the media rights for this year.

That said, the Bylaws say that the conference retains the media rights if the schools delivered a notice in violation of the Bylaws, which the departing schools all clearly did. Is there another document that supercedes the Bylaws? I don't know.

 

[kibblesnbits]

That is why I threw out the $250 to $300 million number. I can't imagine the departing schools were so stupid as to put themselves in the position of losing their share of the revenue from media rights for this year, which is why I am assuming there is another document somewhere that says the schools can keep their share of the media revenue. I also believe that UCLA and USC were going to keep their media rights, which would support the theory that the schools keep the revenues from the media rights for this year.

That said, the Bylaws say that the conference retains the media rights if the schools delivered a notice in violation of the Bylaws, which the departing schools all clearly did. Is there another document that supercedes the Bylaws? I don't know.

The paragraph above just says the league retains the media rights after a notice of withdrawal until the end of the GOR period (i.e. the games remain under the PAC-12 contract). It doesn’t say anything about distribution of revenue, I’d imagine that somewhere else it says all members get a share, where withdrawing teams are still members (albeit without voting rights) until the effective date of their withdrawal (I.e. when they actually leave the league and enter another). That would get them this year’s media rights but they would sacrifice any deferred payments like tournament credits. Properly written in the by-laws that should be dispositive, but I wonder if there’s some ambiguity that makes the withdrawing schools worry that OSU and WSU, if they hold all the voting rights, might be able to make changes.

 

[CL82]

I don’t know. But no media contract and no GOR and no exit fees, I’m not really sure what would make it a conference in any meaningful way. This whole thing is just kinda bonkers. They should teach classes on how not to run a conference based on this mess in the future.

There were conferences long before there were GOR's. I don't think the SEC has exit fees does that mean it's not a conference? So the answer, I think, is that there is a conference end Washington state and Oregon state are the only two voting members right now.

I could not agree more that the last year has been a train wreck for Pac 12 and is absolutely a case study on how not to run a football conference.

 

[JeepCSC]

SEC now has an exit fee and a GOR. But more to the point, they have a media contract. If you don’t have all 3, you basically just have a scheduling alliance and conference tournament. That and a handshake might have been enough in 1980, but.

 

[Tfoyle]

IMO, I see this as a fight with Cal/Stanford vs OSU/WSU. The other schools will support Stanford/Cal, but they dont care. They all found a good landing spot and have good cash coming in.
Stanford/Cal got screwed went to the ACC on a discount plus travel, and should have never went to the ACC. Both schools should have swallowed their academic pride and asked the MWC to merge. Then wait out the 5 years, were BIG or B12 would ask them to join.

 

[JeepCSC]

I don’t see how Cal/Stanford are any more involved than the other schools. It’s a matter of who has voting rights and who doesn’t.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[huskymedic]

 

[huskymedic]

 

[huskymedic]

 

[huskymedic]