Our Fanbase Is Still Conflicted | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Our Fanbase Is Still Conflicted

UConnDan97 said:
Well then, you're not a serious person.

The top three scorers for Memphis last night were all Juniors. Four of their five starters are juniors. That's the difference, even if you choose not to believe it...
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Memphis smells.

Come on.

Tuesday had nothing to do with Memphis.
 
John said:
I'm IN those crowds, and you're high if you think we've lost 10M worth of value.
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I don't think he is wrong. We are not getting local fans from BC, PC and our fans are not taking the train to play Johnnies or Seton Hall, nor are they flying out to Wichita or Tulsa or Houston
 
Huskymagic said:
What great players? Our players with the exception of Adams and Larrier are not worthy of being on a roster for any top 25 team. Our players lack of talent is a big part of our problems as is Ollie being head coach.

Ollie has brought UCONN from the mountaintop to Tulsa. That will be his legacy.

PS: No one on the fanbase is conflicted anymore. Even the Pollyannas know this.
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Ollie didn't bring UCONN to Tulsa
 
Kemba429 said:
Im convinced were the weirdest team in the country. Great players, terrible play but for whatever reason some games they play good. Its Ollies fault but not 100% His players still need to put up on their end
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I agree. But he brought them here. He must inspire them. It is 100 percent his fault, because something is happening there that is causing this.
 
John said:
except you're talking about soda and this is an athletic brand.
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Bizarre analogy, I'd be entertained to read the case study where New Coke is analogous to coaching decisions in college basketball at a state school. Is UConn planning to sell the basketball team soon? Go public? What is the PE ratio?

The so-called 'business major' reality is look at measurables, record, postseason success, earnings, player retention, recruiting class rank, ticket sales etc. over Ollie's tenure. There are downward trends (obv some attributable to conference, but can't change that on own); does that mean changes lose or create value?! [rhetorical]

The only relevant 'business major' aspect to this decision is the buyout costs and if they have the money or not. I find speculation & discussion on that point tiresome & pointless. Its binary, either they have it or they don't and we won't know until they do it or don't. And no one is going public with this info. We won't hear; "Well we can't afford to pay the buyout so we are keeping the coach" nor "please increase your alumni contributions this year we have a 10M fundraising goal to pay the costs of terminating a bad contract we made and overpaying to make sure we undo the damage that has caused".

P.S. Isn't Ollie 'New Coke' & Calhoun 'Coca Cola Classic' ;)
 
BlueDogs said:
You have to look at lost media coverage and exposure, which is huge. It's free marketing dollars. UConn's rise in academic standing is due in large part to huge increases in applications and greater selectivity statistics. Don't think for second the national championships and tournament exposure hasnt been a key in that rise. Students love associating with brand name and success. There is 10MM in lost coverage easily. Once it starts hitting applications, maybe the admin will wake up and realize the strangled the golden goose.
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100% disagree.
 
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Huskymagic said:
What great players? Our players with the exception of Adams and Larrier are not worthy of being on a roster for any top 25 team. Our players lack of talent is a big part of our problems as is Ollie being head coach.

Ollie has brought UCONN from the mountaintop to Tulsa. That will be his legacy.

PS: No one on the fanbase is conflicted anymore. Even the Pollyannas know this.
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I was referring to Adams and Larrier
 
The comments about Larrier sitting with headaches is a tribute to KO's commitment to the kids. Head injuries cannot be ignored. Those who suggest he should have chosen or been ordered to tough out headaches are irresponsible.

When Ollie was given the job it was reasonable to expect that he was going to have to learn on the job. Calhoun had 7 modest years at Northeaster before he distinguished himself and part of the basis for his improvement was Northeaster moving to a better conference.

Ollie is still learning in game coaching.

Ollie has also had a learning curve regarding recruiting, particularly distinguishing which kids have toughness and potential for growth and closing the many kids whose families loved KO while the kid went elsewhere. Hopefully, Killings and Chill solve the remaining weaknesses by complimenting the head coach in this aspect of his job. Also, hopefully Ollie is looking for players who want to be in his system and will thrive there.

The 5 kids who came in 2016 were celebrated, but two couldn't play and then there was a scramble we are still recovering from as KO tried to figure out how to earn love and maintain authority.

There is no way the UConn program benefits by its fans talking about sacking the coach on 1/18 any year unless there is some kind of scandal going on. Serial injuries to key players is not a scandal. There is plenty of time to debate whether to replace the coach in March.

When the debate is ripe, I will be pointing out that we are in the AAC. We have a coach with NCAA and NBA experience, NBA connections, whose history of success began in the same kind of hard neighborhoods that many recruits are living in. He has a national championship. Regardless of the qualifications some will assert, that is a big deal. I have zero confidence that we will find a replacement that will come to the AAC and assemble a competitive team faster than he can. I am fully certain that if there is such a coach, he would be gone to a P5 job as quickly as he could earn a bid.
 
whaler11 said:
That era of college basketball is gone.

There is no long term roster planning.

It’s who can you get now and how fast can you get them to produce together.

The final nail in the idea of upper-classmen developing together is the transfer rule.

It’s AAU for 18-23 year olds.
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Well that's just wrong. And Wichita State is the prime example of why it's wrong.

I'm not saying you need an entire roster of juniors and seniors. But we can't do it with just two of them and almost two thirds of our roster being freshmen. That's what makes a team that is 10-8 and has difficulty beating teams in the 50-100 range RPI.

Next year, many of these players will have had a year under their belts and I will expect more from each of them. Again, we're already seeing it with Whaley, Carlton, and a couple others...
 
UConnDan97 said:
Well that's just wrong. And Wichita State is the prime example of why it's wrong.

I'm not saying you need an entire roster of juniors and seniors. But we can't do it with just two of them and almost two thirds of our roster being freshmen. That's what makes a team that is 10-8 and has difficulty beating teams in the 50-100 range RPI.

Next year, many of these players will have had a year under their belts and I will expect more from each of them. Again, we're already seeing it with Whaley, Carlton, and a couple others...
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So you’ve got one or two programs that are built that way and I can point to the 97% of teams that are pieced together on the fly.

The roster turnover across the country increases every year. When the transfer rules are even more lax in the coming years it’s going to be even more pronounced.

If you think you are building around this freshman class - good luck. That doesn’t even seem plausible with where things are now.
 
UConnDan97 said:
Well that's just wrong. And Wichita State is the prime example of why it's wrong.

I'm not saying you need an entire roster of juniors and seniors. But we can't do it with just two of them and almost two thirds of our roster being freshmen. That's what makes a team that is 10-8 and has difficulty beating teams in the 50-100 range RPI.

Next year, many of these players will have had a year under their belts and I will expect more from each of them. Again, we're already seeing it with Whaley, Carlton, and a couple others...
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Most top teams win with underclassmen. You're using Gregg Marshall as your example, he's probably the best coach in the country.

Ollie has proven he can't construct and keep a winning team together, whether it's young or old.
 
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whaler11 said:
So you’ve got one or two programs that are built that way and I can point to the 97% of teams that are pieced together on the fly.

The roster turnover across the country increases every year. When the transfer rules are even more lax in the coming years it’s going to be even more pronounced.

If you think you are building around this freshman class - good luck. That doesn’t even seem plausible with where things are now.
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If you believe that 97% of the teams out there are made up primarily of freshmen, then I have some land to sell you in the everglades...
 
UConnDan97 said:
If you believe that 97% of the teams out there are made up primarily of freshmen, then I have some land to sell you in the everglades...
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If Ollie somehow stays and we blow even harder than this season and last you will trot out this same tired excuse.

What exactly would it take for you to realize our coach is in over his head?
 
I laugh at the references to learning curve here. Using that as a model, the learning curve should show the bulk of the learning early in the process. What we have here is a learning flat line. Firing coaches and running off players isn't learning. It's a Hail Mary straight from the hack coach handbook.
 
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uconngb said:
Why people don't see this is beyond me. I guess no one in this board was a business major. Franchise value is WAY more important than short term cost. I think the body of evidence is clear. KO is not a program builder. Time to cut losses and move on. It's very basic. Coca Cola realized they made a major mistake with "new Coke". Were they supposed to stay with it because of all the production costs and advertising dollars they had sunk into it?? No, they realized they made a mistake, took their pain, and moved on. And their franchise remained as strong as ever. This is pretty basic people.
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You fail to recognize this is a state university funded by the state that is in a major budget crisis. You can't just throw $10 mil out the window for the sake of change
 
methodology said:
You fail to recognize this is a state university funded by the state that is in a major budget crisis. You can't just throw $10 mil out the window for the sake of change
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Just for the sake of change? It's putting money towards saving our basketball program. A basketball program which has been the lifeblood of our state University. Without our basketball program we would still be UMass or URI.

Far more money will be lost if nothing is done.
 
superjohn said:
What will it take for you to admit our coach is in over his head?
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A full roster void of injuries from its PG/ other ball handler and a group of players who have played together for more than 20 games.

Next year will be his judgement day. If they still suck fire him but with the new roster/ young players he deserves next year to prove if he can be the coach or not. This year was a reset/ rebuilding with the turnover from last year.
 
So paying the buyout may have less of a long-term cost to the program than keeping him around. You still need the entirety of that lump sum available, and that still poses a problem as long as the boosters are still a bunch of nutty Melios.
 
methodology said:
A full roster void of injuries from its PG/ other ball handler and a group of players who have played together for more than 20 games.

Next year will be his judgement day. If they still suck fire him but with the new roster/ young players he deserves next year to prove if he can be the coach or not. This year was a reset/ rebuilding with the turnover from last year.
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Rebuilding what? Jalen does everything for this team and he along with our second best player will be gone next year. You really think a bunch of three star sophomore forwards with Akinjo and a chronically injured Gilbert is going to turn things around under Ollie?

It amazes me how much he has fleeced some of you guys.
 
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Unless the team really bombs the rest of the way, I would give Ollie until the end of next season. This is still a very young team and when you take Larrier out, it becomes a very shallow bench. David O. and A. A. are not Sterling Gibbs and Shonn Miller. I hate having either on the floor despite the former having a good game two games ago. The loss of Gilbert is really tough. I believe he would get better shots for many of the other players and let Adams actually rest once in a while.
I still have doubts if Ollie can really develop players, but aside from Adams who do we really have to judge him buy. Enoch, Jackson and Durham all skipped town before we could see. It look like Vital and Jackson started to progress near the end of the season last year.
I hate the embarrassing losses, but I don't think there is enough 'data' to really determine Ollie's effectiveness/ineffectiveness.
 
UConnDan97 said:
If you believe that 97% of the teams out there are made up primarily of freshmen, then I have some land to sell you in the everglades...
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They aren’t made up of freshman. They are constantly evolving adding players from multiple sources.

Nobody brings in classes and keeps them together for four years.

UConn is 247 in ‘experience’ in kenpom. Guess who they are tied with - SMU. Gonzaga is 241.

Wichita is 13th yes but...

Duke is second to last.
Robert Morris leading the NEC is third from last.
Alabama is 4th from last.

Being young <> being bad.

You are bad when you have a bad roster, bad coaches or both. Wishcashing this group of freshman into something down the road is crazy. You can’t even guess at who is going to stay one more year nevermind 2 or 3.
 
Randomly Missouri State is having a good year w a veteran team. 69 kp 15-5 (5-2)

Best player a Juco Sr. Big man a NMSU transfer. Scurry a Juco. Another senior a Howard transfer.

3 of their 8 best players came to Missouri State from high school.
 
whaler11 said:
They aren’t made up of freshman. They are constantly evolving adding players from multiple sources.

Nobody brings in classes and keeps them together for four years.

UConn is 247 in ‘experience’ in kenpom. Guess who they are tied with - SMU. Gonzaga is 241.

Wichita is 13th yes but...

Duke is second to last.
Robert Morris leading the NEC is third from last.
Alabama is 4th from last.

Being young <> being bad.

You are bad when you have a bad roster, bad coaches or both. Wishcashing this group of freshman into something down the road is crazy. You can’t even guess at who is going to stay one more year nevermind 2 or 3.
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Oh, you mean the Duke team that have 4 of the top 14 recruits in the country? Oh well in that case, you must be right.

C'mon, man. SMU is ranked near us and we are two very similar teams right now. You're right that I don't know who will stay. But I'm right that the ones who are here now are getting better every week. That comes from working hard and getting experience, and it also comes from coaching...
 
UConnDan97 said:
Oh, you mean the Duke team that have 4 of the top 14 recruits in the country? Oh well in that case, you must be right.

C'mon, man. SMU is ranked near us and we are two very similar teams right now. You're right that I don't know who will stay. But I'm right that the ones who are here now are getting better every week. That comes from working hard and getting experience, and it also comes from coaching...
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You think SMU is similar to UConn this season?

Seriously?

They are all getting better every week? Diarra got better this week? Who was better on Tuesday?

You have to improve faster than the other teams improve. There is zero evidence that is happening.

You are searching for excuses. There aren’t any. Other than they don’t get breaks.
 
whaler11 said:
You think SMU is similar to UConn this season?

Seriously?
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They had a great win against Wichita, and are having a little bit better of a year. But prior to that, they were on a three game losing streak. Two of those games were to Temple and Tulane...
 
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