OT: World Cup

[Gurleyman]

Note, I'm being hard on him, but am NOT, I repeat NOT, calling for his benching; he needs to play better, that is all. I do think he should have been replaced when we went up two nothing. Some fresh legs with a defensive mindset would have done wonders for us at that point. While I get what you are saying about the goal in terms of technique, I'm of the opinion that you have to finish that at this level, on this stage. Chances are so few and far between against good teams, that you have to finish the gifts. Its what separates the good teams from the average, and normally separates those teams moving on vs not. I was more frustrated with the play at the end of the game though. Time in the match is everything. And the fact remains, as you mention, that Bradley was heavily involved in 2 goals against late in both games so far. I would put a fair bit of this on Klinnsman as I alluded to earlier, but probably should have been more strong about. JK needs to get MB out of the game for the final 10 minutes, at the bare minimum, when the US is ahead.

I actually wasn't thinking of you (or this board even) when I wrote about benching him. It's been a common sentiment in the comments section of articles and things as people lash out.

He doea have to finish there, but stuff happens on one-timers. He may not have noticed the one defender in the play to focus on keeping his eye on the ball and driving it home while the goalie was out. He needed to take a quick peek and maybe opt to try to place it more (into right side of net) rather than hit it hard. I'd be more on his case if he skied it over the bar or tapped it lightly and made it an easy clearance. It was a difficult play the guy made on the line lunging with his knee on a well struck ball. But you don't get better opportunities than that, so you do need to put those away in high-stakes games.

 

[Gurleyman]

I played soccer my whole life, and there's little doubt in my mind that Bradley himself knows that he screwed up and that the goal was on him. I really like Bradley and he's an essential part of the team, but I really think he should've either subbed himself out at around the 85th minute or Klinsmann should've subbed for him. He was dragging badly and was putting zero pressure on the ball. The coach has to see this. His play that led to the final goal was all exhaustion.

Problem is he wasn't the only one. Dempsey had to come off, and we were down to one sub. Besler had already gone down and there was a risk of his hammy being an issue. Jones was dragging worse than Bradley - he couldn't get up at one point in stoppage time. Beasley had to come off. Johnson had been running all over the field and was trailing the play at the end, so he probably could have used a sub too.

The three sub limitation makes it hard to just come off for a little fatigue. If you're out of subs and someone gets hurt, you're down to 10.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I was thinking about that back line, but the twp studs were Pope and Sanneh. Besler and Johnson are pretty good replacements for them. I wouldn't want Agoos.
What this team needs is another creative attacker, but a world-class target man like McBride wouldn't hurt.

And losing Pope to accumulated Yellows from the Italy match cost the US dearly against Ghana.


Over the last year or so, I have been impressed by Jozy, even when he is not scoring goals, his work ethic has been very good and his distribution is getting better. Compared to McBride, he is stronger; but, not as good in the air. I wonder if McBride and Dempsey are comparing notes on having a nose broken in the cup?

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Bradley covered more ground than anyone else in the game last night, by literally a kilometer. He made some bad plays, but after running 7.6 miles in 90+ degree heat and 90+ percent humidity, he probably wasn't at his best, and I'm not surprised that he got pushed off that ball at the end. Given that Jurgen had another sub available, I would have liked to have seen Mix there.

Bradley made a mistake; but, his play over the last year when he was carrying the US team at certain points gives him a pass in my opinion. As others have said, he was pushed off the ball by a bigger, stronger, and fresher player. But, he was not the only player out there. Beasley did his best to contain Ronaldo, arguably one of the best players on the pitch globally, and simply got beaten by one hell of a pass. I do not fault him at all. What I do want to know is how the heck with 3 center backs on the field at the time that Varela got to Ronaldo’s pass first? He was the only Portugal player that was a threat with 2 trailers (one was walking, one was jogging, Eder, with no apparent urgency) and another on the wing. They all should have been marked and in Varela’s case as Ronaldo’s only viable target, boxed in an abused. Besler ran between Ronaldo and Varela; but, could not decide which way to go and got caught ball watching. Cameron looked gas and appeared not to be able to catch-up while Gonzalez, who was fresh off the bench trailed badly. He should have been burning rubber and kept Varela away from a goal side position. Basically, a 30 second collective lapse in judgment on each end of the game with some really solid play by the US in between sprinkled in with 2 well-earned goals and a few very good saves by Howard.

 

[bobbygt]

Problem is he wasn't the only one. Dempsey had to come off, and we were down to one sub. Besler had already gone down and there was a risk of his hammy being an issue. Jones was dragging worse than Bradley - he couldn't get up at one point in stoppage time. Beasley had to come off. Johnson had been running all over the field and was trailing the play at the end, so he probably could have used a sub too.

The three sub limitation makes it hard to just come off for a little fatigue. If you're out of subs and someone gets hurt, you're down to 10.

I agree with all of this- I had forgotten about the Gonzalez for Zusi substitution.

 

[SubbaBub]

I played soccer my whole life, and there's little doubt in my mind that Bradley himself knows that he screwed up and that the goal was on him.

I really like Bradley and he's an essential part of the team, but I really think he should've either subbed himself out at around the 85th minute or Klinsmann should've subbed for him. He was dragging badly and was putting zero pressure on the ball. The coach has to see this. His play that led to the final goal was all exhaustion.

Problem is he didn't have a defensively strong central midfielder to put in the game. Mix is his backup, but strong on the ball and defending are not his game.

MB screwed up, it happens. Time to move on because the next game is the one we really need our best player, and he is our best player, to play like it. We've gotten some big performances from a lot of guys, some expected and some not. It's Bradley's turn to step up.

 

[intlzncster]

I very much doubt that people would feel the same if his mistake had given up a goal. It's clear people are judged on the last thing they did.

It's not the last thing they did. That's being overly dramatic. I'm not saying he'd be completely absolved, but you would take into account this sum total of the contribution. Fact is, Jermaine put one in (+1), and an incredible game saving goal at that. Bradley missed a bunny, and stuffed up at the end resulting in a goal (-2).

 

[intlzncster]

True- you're spot on about players not subbing themselves out. I'm sure there's that will to play through your exhaustion as well at this level.

Hope the ankle heals well- those are tough injuries.

Last fall I tore my calf muscle- the first time I ever injured myself playing soccer. I was out for two months. I'm going to be 38 in a few months and everyone keeps telling me that many more injuries will be waiting for me!

I've torn hamstring and quad, plus strained groins, but never a calf. That must be difficult to come back from, because you put so much stress on it simply walking around day to day.

 

[intlzncster]

Problem is he wasn't the only one. Dempsey had to come off, and we were down to one sub. Besler had already gone down and there was a risk of his hammy being an issue. Jones was dragging worse than Bradley - he couldn't get up at one point in stoppage time. Beasley had to come off. Johnson had been running all over the field and was trailing the play at the end, so he probably could have used a sub too.

The three sub limitation makes it hard to just come off for a little fatigue. If you're out of subs and someone gets hurt, you're down to 10.

So do you take the chance there? I think you do and make the third sub, given that there is no overtime in these games. If you have to go 10 men for 10 minutes or so at the end, you simply bunker down. The positives of having that fresh set of legs on defense outweigh the potential negatives of losing a man to injury imo.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I don't follow the MLS enough, even though I should. I watch a fair number of overseas matches, but don't support a specific team. There's only so many sports one man can handle, and I have enough on my plate supporting UCONN Basketball (M&W), the Patriots, and to a lesser extent the Red S0x and C's. That's without everyone hounding me to get on the UCONN MFB bandwagon. I just don't have the time.

So in that context, why can't the NY FC continue to play in Yankee Stadium? The Revolution seem to do alright playing at Gillette. What's the downside there? NYFC have had a couple of nice signings recently in Villa and Lampard iirc. Both players still have a lot to offer.

Yankee stadium holds 55,000 for baseball and 33,000 for soccer. MLS average attendance is roughly 17,000, excluding Seattle, which draws 44K for games. It’s too large for day to day MLS games. Also, the stadium layout is designed for baseball. Most sightlines are at an angle and the fans are a good 30 or so yards from the field, especially along the midfield and not to mention the dead space along one side of the field where the bullpens and Monument Park are located. Public transit (subway & commuter rail) is a big plus. The original plan for a soccer specific stadium near Citi Field (Mets) in Queens fell through. Good idea tough as Long island has always been a strong soccer hotbed. Currently, there is talk of building a soccer stadium near Yankee Stadium in the Bronx. No idea where as land is such a premium in NYC.

 

[intlzncster]

Problem is he didn't have a defensively strong central midfielder to put in the game. Mix is his backup, but strong on the ball and defending are not his game.

MB screwed up, it happens. Time to move on because the next game is the one we really need our best player, and he is our best player, to play like it. We've gotten some big performances from a lot of guys, some expected and some not. It's Bradley's turn to step up.

I put a defensemen in there for Beckerman and move Beckerman up to 'attacking' mid. He wouldn't be attacking of course. But that's just my opinion. Brooks could have gone in and I'd have been ok with it. Young/fresh legs to simply harass the opposition.

 

[intlzncster]

View attachment 6249


Yankee stadium holds 55,000 for baseball and 33,000 for soccer. MLS average attendance is roughly 17,000, excluding Seattle, which draws 44K for games. It’s too large for day to day MLS games. Also, the stadium layout is designed for baseball. Most sightlines are at an angle and the fans are a good 30 or so yards from the field, especially along the midfield and not to mention the dead space along one side of the field where the bullpens and Monument Park are located. Public transit (subway & commuter rail) is a big plus. The original plan for a soccer specific stadium near Citi Field (Mets) in Queens fell through. Good idea tough as Long island has always been a strong soccer hotbed. Currently, there is talk of building a soccer stadium near Yankee Stadium in the Bronx. No idea where as land is such a premium in NYC.

Why did it fall through? Zoning? Investors pulling out?

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Problem is he wasn't the only one. Dempsey had to come off, and we were down to one sub. Besler had already gone down and there was a risk of his hammy being an issue. Jones was dragging worse than Bradley - he couldn't get up at one point in stoppage time. Beasley had to come off. Johnson had been running all over the field and was trailing the play at the end, so he probably could have used a sub too.

The three sub limitation makes it hard to just come off for a little fatigue. If you're out of subs and someone gets hurt, you're down to 10.

Much of that can be blamed on playing in Manaus. Every team has had fatigue issues there by the end of the game. Professional soccer in the heat and humidity of the Amazon with just 3 subs is not a good concept. I wished the Ref called for another water break right after the US’s second goal to give both teams the chance to rehydrate for the final push, which everyone knew was coming as Portugal had to tie to stay alive. I just hope the US team can recover enough to be fit for Thursday’s game with Germany and not to get destroyed. Klinsman’s rant was spot on; but, foolish as it may place a target on the US’s back, something we do not need.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I've torn hamstring and quad, plus strained groins, but never a calf. That must be difficult to come back from, because you put so much stress on it simply walking around day to day.

Calf pulls suck. Got one over the winter playing indoor. Was defending an opposing striker coming down the wing with the ball and poked the ball away with my left foot. I turned on my right leg so that I could jump on the ball and push back up field for a break; but, the moment I pushed off with my left leg, I literally felt my left calf pop. Could barely walk for a week and missed two weeks of games. Luckily, as I have been injury prone before, especially with ankles, I know how to wrap a leg really good and gave it a go after 3 weeks.

 

[intlzncster]

Well, 0ff to watch the match of the day. Italy vs Uruguay.

I know we have a bunch of Azzuri supporters, but I'm backing Uruguay in this one. I'd like to see more of Louie Suarez. Want more. Need more.*

I think we have a few South American Boneyarders as well. Chile and Guatemala, but no idea about Uruguay itself.

*yes I know it's Luis.

 

[intlzncster]

Much of that can be blamed on playing in Manaus. Every team has had fatigue issues there by the end of the game. Professional soccer in the heat and humidity of the Amazon with just 3 subs is not a good concept. I wished the Ref called for another water break right after the US’s second goal to give both teams the chance to rehydrate for the final push, which everyone knew was coming as Portugal had to tie to stay alive. I just hope the US team can recover enough to be fit for Thursday’s game with Germany and not to get destroyed. Klinsman’s rant was spot on; but, foolish as it may place a target on the US’s back, something we do not need.

Recovery will hopefully not be a problem. The problem is they can't really train much, which is something you'd like to do to be sharp for the Germans.

 

[Gurleyman]

I agree with all of this- I had forgotten about the Gonzalez for Zusi substitution.

Which in hindsight may have been a mistake getting us out of formation. We put an extra defender central and took Zusi (admittedly not a great defender) out from his spot out wide. Portugal attacked in that space where Beasley was on an island. Of course, if Gonzalez busts his hump back and defends that last cross, it works. Or if the turnover wasn't in a bad place on the field, Bradley or Jones could have slid over to to give support on that side. There are dozens of what ifs on a play like that

Maybe a Gonzalez for Bradley/Jones sub would have worked better tactically with Beckerman pinching up a little more. Total hindsight, though.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Why did it fall through? Zoning? Investors pulling out?

The soccer stadium was supposed to go in a park in Queens just south of the Ashe tennis stadium. Very strong local opposition for the locals and the Mets were not thrilled either, likely because the team is partly owned by the Yankees. The ‘new’ plan from 2013 has a stadium to be built in the Bronx just south of Yankee Stadium where a parking garage is on E 153rd; but, the new, less business friendly mayor of NYC has come out against it, so who knows at this point.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/queens/major-league-soccer-won-coming-queens-pol-article-1.1394221#

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Which in hindsight may have been a mistake getting us out of formation. We put an extra defender central and took Zusi (admittedly not a great defender) out from his spot out wide. Portugal attacked in that space where Beasley was on an island. Of course, if Gonzalez busts his hump back and defends that last cross, it works. Or if the turnover wasn't in a bad place on the field, Bradley or Jones could have slid over to to give support on that side. There are dozens of what ifs on a play like that

Maybe a Gonzalez for Bradley/Jones sub would have worked better tactically with Beckerman pinching up a little more. Total hindsight, though.

And that is why I always drink when watching the USMNT...

 

[SubbaBub]

I put a defensemen in there for Beckerman and move Beckerman up to 'attacking' mid. He wouldn't be attacking of course. But that's just my opinion. Brooks could have gone in and I'd have been ok with it. Young/fresh legs to simply harass the opposition.

That's essentially what he did in swapping Gonzalez for Zusi. Jones moved wider. Gonzalez was supposed to put 5 across the back, but was further upfield.

I've been saying this was a tactical mistake by JK. He also did it in the warmup match against Nigeria and it cost a goal late.

Playing 5 across the back is a waste imo. Once the ball is in the box, it's almost too late. You're 1v1 or 1v2 at best. You want to pressure the ball higher and clog the middle. Make them go around or over.

Which ironically is what they did, it just happened so fast the D couldn't recover and lost their heads.

 

[Gurleyman]

So do you take the chance there? I think you do and make the third sub, given that there is no overtime in these games. If you have to go 10 men for 10 minutes or so at the end, you simply bunker down. The positives of having that fresh set of legs on defense outweigh the potential negatives of losing a man to injury imo.

Perhaps. The last sub can also be a strategic time waster. They don't seem to add stoppage time when someone comes on after 90 minutes (I've kept an eye on that). And even if they do, that 60 seconds of sending a sub on for someone across the field can give your gassed guys one final breather.

I think if you feel there's someone who is so tired they are a liability, you do it. If you think you can provide cover while someone takes a play or two off, you maybe keep it in your pocket.

I think Jones would have come off before Bradley, though. He seemed even more spent.

 

[intlzncster]

Mario Balotteli is an idiot.

 

[intlzncster]

That's essentially what he did in swapping Gonzalez for Zusi. Jones moved wider. Gonzalez was supposed to put 5 across the back, but was further upfield.

I've been saying this was a tactical mistake by JK. He also did it in the warmup match against Nigeria and it cost a goal late.

Playing 5 across the back is a waste imo. Once the ball is in the box, it's almost too late. You're 1v1 or 1v2 at best. You want to pressure the ball higher and clog the middle. Make them go around or over.

Which ironically is what they did, it just happened so fast the D couldn't recover and lost their heads.

I wasn't saying 5 in the back though, just getting on guys with defensive minded/harassing attitudes to play in the mid field in order to press the opposition.

 

[intlzncster]

Uruguay not getting the ball to Suarez enough. Playing a little too conservative for the result they need.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Mario Balotteli is an idiot.

That's news?