OT: World Cup

[UConnDan97]

Isn't this game the reason why the final group matches now start at the same time?

Exactly. And that's why it really hasn't happened since. And there's also the thing about not wanting to finish second in the group to make the next round twice as hard. And there's also the thing about Germany feeling like they are twice as good as us, which would make playing for the tie unthinkable in their minds. But hey, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. We'll all see how it goes down on Thursday...

 

[breezy]

Ok, so you admit you didn't see most of the game? There was a stretch where he played well, but it was made completely irrelevant in context of the total game. At the end of the day, he was one of the 4 worst players for the US against Portugal. Maybe even number 2 behind Cameron (who only gets it because of gaffs). There were times when Bradley literally jogged and let offensive players run right by him for attacking chances. He missed one of the bunny's of the tournament. His lack of headiness about game situation resulted in Portugal's final goal as well. It's possible to go on and on, but it's beating a dead horse at this point. Remember, this is our center midfielder and supposedly one of our top players. A guy who lives off his ability to pass and posses properly. Yet he's one of the bottom 5 or so right now of the starters in WC play.

I'm not sure I "admit" to anything, but I said I only saw 20 minutes. Against Ghana jones coughed it up multiple times in the midfield. A midfielder has good and bad touches because they have lots of touches and the U.S. is asking Bradley to do more than any other player and he's doing it. Maybe he doesn't have any points but his positioning and dictation is critical, and it'd be naive to think we'd have 4 points in this group without him.

 

[Leebo]

I don't see how people are blaming the last goal on Bradley. He barely had a chance to control that ball before Eder shoulder checked him. There were many far more egregious defensive mistakes by other player that people are forgetting because they didn't result in beautiful goals assisted by the world's best player.

 

[SubbaBub]

I don't see how people are blaming the last goal on Bradley. He barely had a chance to control that ball before Eder shoulder checked him. There were many far more egregious defensive mistakes by other player that people are forgetting because they didn't result in beautiful goals assisted by the world's best player.

He had plenty of time/space to control that ball. He fumbled the trap. That said a lot more went wrong after that, but if he controls that ball the match is likely over.

 

[Leebo]

I dunno, I've read that he picked it up with his hands and laid it down in front of Ronaldo...

 

[CallMeBruce]

Exactly. And that's why it really hasn't happened since. And there's also the thing about not wanting to finish second in the group to make the next round twice as hard. And there's also the thing about Germany feeling like they are twice as good as us, which would make playing for the tie unthinkable in their minds. But hey, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. We'll all see how it goes down on Thursday...

Germany finishes first in group with a draw. They have nothing to gain by trying to win.

 

[upstater]

I don't see how people are blaming the last goal on Bradley. He barely had a chance to control that ball before Eder shoulder checked him. There were many far more egregious defensive mistakes by other player that people are forgetting because they didn't result in beautiful goals assisted by the world's best player.

Time of the game. The last minute is not like the middle of the game. In that last minute, you blast the ball away. No reason to do what he did.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Ok, so you admit you didn't see most of the game? There was a stretch where he played well, but it was made completely irrelevant in context of the total game. At the end of the day, he was one of the 4 worst players for the US against Portugal. Maybe even number 2 behind Cameron (who only gets it because of gaffs).

There were times when Bradley literally jogged and let offensive players run right by him for attacking chances. He missed one of the bunny's of the tournament. His lack of headiness about game situation resulted in Portugal's final goal as well. It's possible to go on and on, but it's beating a dead horse at this point.

Remember, this is our center midfielder and supposedly one of our top players. A guy who lives off his ability to pass and posses properly. Yet he's one of the bottom 5 or so right now of the starters in WC play.

Disagree with this and I did see the whole game. I thought he was our worst player against Ghana, but among the best against Porugal. His play did slip in the second half, but he played a strong two way game, getting ahead when needed and coming back frequently to disrupt the counters from Portugal. He did look gassed by the end, and hence the lazy play that lead to the final goal, but to be fair, the whole team gave up, thinking it was over.

 

[Leebo]

Time of the game. The last minute is not like the middle of the game. In that last minute, you blast the ball away. No reason to do what he did.

I'm thinking of a play by Jones, also in stoppage time, not random plays in the middle of the game. Wasn't there a play where he just straight up gives it with a bad pass to Portugal that resulted in a chance? But he's forgiven because it didn't create a goal, while Bradley's is unforgivable because it did.

I also see it as a 20:20 hindsight thing. Imagine he blasts it out of bounds, and then Portugal scores on the throw in. Everyone can then go "Why didn't he just keep it and run out the clock?"

 

[Waquoit]

I give ESPN a lot of (deserved) on here, but I will say one thing, when they decide to support a sport (in there own interest obv), it plays a significant part in that sports growth nationally. It's definitely helped soccer over the past 5-10 years.

One thing they did right was to stop foisting clueless American announcers on us. Something Fox hasn't learned yet.

 

[intlzncster]

I'm thinking of a play by Jones, also in stoppage time, not random plays in the middle of the game. Wasn't there a play where he just straight up gives it with a bad pass to Portugal that resulted in a chance? But he's forgiven because it didn't create a goal, while Bradley's is unforgivable because it did.

He's forgiven because he's played out of his mind and has been the best American player through the first 2 games. He's been phenomenal.

I get that I'm being hard on Bradley, but when you are depending on a guy to be one of your top players, and he actually ends up being one of your worst, it's a huge issue. That's doubly the case with a center midfielder through which the offense is supposed to run.

 

[upstater]

I'm thinking of a play by Jones, also in stoppage time, not random plays in the middle of the game. Wasn't there a play where he just straight up gives it with a bad pass to Portugal that resulted in a chance? But he's forgiven because it didn't create a goal, while Bradley's is unforgivable because it did.

I also see it as a 20:20 hindsight thing. Imagine he blasts it out of bounds, and then Portugal scores on the throw in. Everyone can then go "Why didn't he just keep it and run out the clock?"

How is that supposed to happen in 20 seconds? Ball goes out of bounds, 10 seconds. Throw in from midfield, all the defense is back as opposed to just 4 guys?

Time of the game is so important there. Bradley isn't making a bad play if there are 5 minutes left there.

 

[intlzncster]

Disagree with this and I did see the whole game. I thought he was our worst player against Ghana, but among the best against Porugal. His play did slip in the second half, but he played a strong two way game, getting ahead when needed and coming back frequently to disrupt the counters from Portugal. He did look gassed by the end, and hence the lazy play that lead to the final goal, but to be fair, the whole team gave up, thinking it was over.

He started out well, and performed well for a stretch there (as I mentioned above). But he got gassed pretty quick.

I only remember a few times Bradley tracked back to take the ball on D (especially at the critical stages of the game--due to exhaustion), but am happy to be wrong if someone really wants to go break down the film. I do remember people at the bar yelling at him repeatedly. I also remember him jogging half heartedly most of the time defensively. He probably should have been out of the game at around 70 minutes (even less).

Just to check myself and make sure I'm not completely pulling all this out of my arse, here's Jeff Carlisle's (admittedly completely subjective) players grades for that game. Bradley was the second to bottom ranked player for that game--only Cameron was worse:

M Michael Bradley, 5 - Looked back to his old self early, and just needed to find the range on his shots more. Should have done better on opportunity set up by Johnson, and seemed to fade a bit late. Made a poor pass that led to Ronaldo gaining possession and setting up the equalizer.​

Again, I know I'm being hard on him, but he's supposed to be one of our top 3 players game in game out. I'd hope for him, Dempsey, and Howard to be on top of their form.

 

[intlzncster]

Altidore out of the Germany game as well. We go with what we got.

http://www.espnfc.com/fifa-world-cu...ys-jozy-altidore-out-vs-germanymatt-besler-in

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Regarding MLS, it is a good buy; but rapid expansion has risks as we have seen before.

While the fee for a franchise is not too high like the NFL or NBA, a key investment is a soccer specific stadium with a capacity between 20K and 30K, which believe it or not, is the average size of a soccer stadium globally outside of a handful of heavyweights. Except for Seattle, hosting games at a 60K to 70K NFL stadium outside of special events when average attendance runs around 17K is absurd. It’s one reason that I am very nervous about the proposed expansion team in Atlanta as they are scheduled to play in the new Falcons stadium with a capacity of 65K. Seems to me that the owner wants to host more events at his new, publically financed stadium versus owning and supporting a MLS team. Plus Atlanta does not have the best reputation when it comes to supporting sport teams. The new New York FC team also needs a permanent home as its temporary home will be Yankee Stadium. I believe Miami and Orlando will be building soccer stadiums. In addition, two of MLS’s biggest thorns have been getting soccer specific stadiums for two of its founding franchises, DC United and the Revs. Both currently rank in the bottom 5 of MLS attendance with a third team in the bottom 5, San Jose, will be getting its stadium soon (the other is Chivas, which is just badly run, regardless where they play). Lastly, these stadiums need to have access to public transit as the city/millennial generation is less addicted to cars that prior generations (it will be interesting to see how US transportation projects are funded once they work their way into elected offices, the highways versus rail funding pattern may get flipped). It is no surprise that Columbus, Colorado, Dallas, and Chicago (who the heck had that stadium built 2 miles from the end of the subway line?) do not have direct public transit access and all rank in the bottom 10 of MLS attendance.

There are also challenges with keeping the cost of attendance low since MLS relies on ticket sales more than any other sport because of its current lack of TV time. The pending influx of European talent may help, though.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Altidore out of the Germany game as well. We go with what we got.

http://www.espnfc.com/fifa-world-cu...ys-jozy-altidore-out-vs-germanymatt-besler-in

Sad; but not surprised. Hopefully we will see him bulldogging it through Belgium or Russia’s defense in a week or so.

 

[Gurleyman]

I don't see how people are blaming the last goal on Bradley. He barely had a chance to control that ball before Eder shoulder checked him. There were many far more egregious defensive mistakes by other player that people are forgetting because they didn't result in beautiful goals assisted by the world's best player.

Time of the game. It was the final minute so he didn't really have to do anything special. He flubbed the trap a bit (physical error - which can be easily forgiven) and then was clearly the first to a 50-50 ball (making it more like an 80-20 or 90-10 ball). With a lot of options (turn and boom it, quick dribble away from pressure), he tried to cut back with a fancy dribble into pressure and managed to lose the exact type of ball that he is supposed to win (winning those midfield battles is his job). And he loses it in such a way that he gives them a fast break - taking himself out of the play in the process and not putting up enough of a fight that his teammates can retreat. He did everything wrong at the worst possible time of the game. It's the difference between throwing he ball out of bounds at the end of a shot clock with 10 seconds left and a two-point lead vs getting your pocket picked around the perimeter and allowing a 2-on-1 break.

He also screwed up in the last minute against Ghana - booming the ball cross field to their goalie instead of taking it to the flag. He's allowed two late counters in two games with poor plays. You need better from your supposedly smartest players.

I thought Bradley played great in the first half against Portugal after a bad Ghana game. He played a lot of quality through balls to generate chances and was much more of a positive presence. I don't even hold the missed goal against him since he put good technique on a bouncing ball and hit it hard and low - just got a bit unlucky. I just don't want my central mids being liabilities with the ball in the final minute. You need poise and toughness. Calls to bench him are foolish - he's been our best player through qualifying (and was strong in 2010) and you don't make a panic change now. He just has to play through it and be on form against Germany.

 

[intlzncster]

Regarding MLS, it is a good buy; but rapid expansion has risks as we have seen before.

While the fee for a franchise is not too high like the NFL or NBA, a key investment is a soccer specific stadium with a capacity between 20K and 30K, which believe it or not, is the average size of a soccer stadium globally outside of a handful of heavyweights. Except for Seattle, hosting games at a 60K to 70K NFL stadium outside of special events when average attendance runs around 17K is absurd. It’s one reason that I am very nervous about the proposed expansion team in Atlanta as they are scheduled to play in the new Falcons stadium with a capacity of 65K. Seems to me that the owner wants to host more events at his new, publically financed stadium versus owning and supporting a MLS team. Plus Atlanta does not have the best reputation when it comes to supporting sport teams. The new New York FC team also needs a permanent home as its temporary home will be Yankee Stadium. I believe Miami and Orlando will be building soccer stadiums. In addition, two of MLS’s biggest thorns have been getting soccer specific stadiums for two of its founding franchises, DC United and the Revs. Both currently rank in the bottom 5 of MLS attendance with a third team in the bottom 5, San Jose, will be getting its stadium soon (the other is Chivas, which is just badly run, regardless where they play). Lastly, these stadiums need to have access to public transit as the city/millennial generation is less addicted to cars that prior generations (it will be interesting to see how US transportation projects are funded once they work their way into elected offices, the highways versus rail funding pattern may get flipped). It is no surprise that Columbus, Colorado, Dallas, and Chicago (who the heck had that stadium built 2 miles from the end of the subway line?) do not have direct public transit access and all rank in the bottom 10 of MLS attendance.

There are also challenges with keeping the cost of attendance low since MLS relies on ticket sales more than any other sport because of its current lack of TV time. The pending influx of European talent may help, though.

I don't follow the MLS enough, even though I should. I watch a fair number of overseas matches, but don't support a specific team. There's only so many sports one man can handle, and I have enough on my plate supporting UCONN Basketball (M&W), the Patriots, and to a lesser extent the Red S0x and C's. That's without everyone hounding me to get on the UCONN MFB bandwagon. I just don't have the time.

So in that context, why can't the NY FC continue to play in Yankee Stadium? The Revolution seem to do alright playing at Gillette. What's the downside there? NYFC have had a couple of nice signings recently in Villa and Lampard iirc. Both players still have a lot to offer.

 

[intlzncster]

He also screwed up in the last minute against Ghana - booming the ball cross field to their goalie instead of taking it to the flag. He's allowed two late counters in two games with poor plays. You need better from your supposedly smartest players.

I thought Bradley played great in the first half against Portugal after a bad Ghana game. He played a lot of quality through balls to generate chances and was much more of a positive presence. I don't even hold the missed goal against him since he put good technique on a bouncing ball and hit it hard and low - just got a bit unlucky. I just don't want my central mids being liabilities with the ball in the final minute. You need poise and toughness. Calls to bench him are foolish - he's been our best player through qualifying (and was strong in 2010) and you don't make a panic change now. He just has to play through it and be on form against Germany.

Note, I'm being hard on him, but am NOT, I repeat NOT, calling for his benching; he needs to play better, that is all. I do think he should have been replaced when we went up two nothing. Some fresh legs with a defensive mindset would have done wonders for us at that point.

While I get what you are saying about the goal in terms of technique, I'm of the opinion that you have to finish that at this level, on this stage. Chances are so few and far between against good teams, that you have to finish the gifts. Its what separates the good teams from the average, and normally separates those teams moving on vs not.

I was more frustrated with the play at the end of the game though. Time in the match is everything. And the fact remains, as you mention, that Bradley was heavily involved in 2 goals against late in both games so far. I would put a fair bit of this on Klinnsman as I alluded to earlier, but probably should have been more strong about. JK needs to get MB out of the game for the final 10 minutes, at the bare minimum, when the US is ahead.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don't follow the MLS enough, even though I should. I watch a fair number of overseas matches, but don't support a specific team. There's only so many sports one man can handle, and I have enough on my plate supporting UCONN Basketball (M&W), the Patriots, and to a lesser extent the Red S0x and C's. That's without everyone hounding me to get on the UCONN MFB bandwagon. I just don't have the time.

So in that context, why can't the NY FC continue to play in Yankee Stadium? The Revolution seem to do alright playing at Gillette. What's the downside there? NYFC have had a couple of nice signings recently in Villa and Lampard iirc. Both players still have a lot to offer.

Well the MLS season overlaps with baseball, so playing in an MLB stadium doesn't make much sense. The Revs do fine at Foxboro, and are drawing better now that the team is back up to scratch. But part of that is the appeal of Patriot Place for families. They can do all sorts of family fun related things, and all the local youth soccer teams go to games. Not sure the Bronx works as well.

By the way, I really think Heaps may be eventually replace Klinsman someday, he's a young coaching star.

 

[bobbygt]

I played soccer my whole life, and there's little doubt in my mind that Bradley himself knows that he screwed up and that the goal was on him.

I really like Bradley and he's an essential part of the team, but I really think he should've either subbed himself out at around the 85th minute or Klinsmann should've subbed for him. He was dragging badly and was putting zero pressure on the ball. The coach has to see this. His play that led to the final goal was all exhaustion.

 

[intlzncster]

I played soccer my whole life, and there's little doubt in my mind that Bradley himself knows that he screwed up and that the goal was on him.

I really like Bradley and he's an essential part of the team, but I really think he should've either subbed himself out at around the 85th minute or Klinsmann should've subbed for him. He was dragging badly and was putting zero pressure on the ball. The coach has to see this. His play that led to the final goal was all exhaustion.

Really tough for a player to sub themselves out at this level, though I know it happens. I won't fault MB for that; That's all on JK in my mind. That's most of the point of his existence in the middle of a match.

I'm so disappointed I'm on the shelf with an ankle injury this summer. I get so excited to play after watching this level of football. I'm really depressed about it. The US not winning against Portugal makes it worse.

I'm missing summer league which is the most competitive league I play in, filled with mostly current and former college players. A number of professional and semi professional players too. Played against 3 guys from the Jamaican under 23 national team last summer. It was really, really hard to stay with those guys, on and off the ball.

Interestingly enough, we have a former UCONN player on our team as well. That's pretty cool.

 

[Leebo]

How is that supposed to happen in 20 seconds?

Well, firstly, he touches the ball with 40 seconds to go, but that's not really the point.

We'll never know what would happen if he does something differently, but I'm sure that someone would have found a way to blame him.

 

[Leebo]

He's forgiven because he's played out of his mind and has been the best American player through the first 2 games.

I very much doubt that people would feel the same if his mistake had given up a goal. It's clear people are judged on the last thing they did.

 

[bobbygt]

Really tough for a player to sub themselves out at this level, though I know it happens. I won't fault MB for that; That's all on JK in my mind. That's most of the point of his existence in the middle of a match.

I'm so disappointed I'm on the shelf with an ankle injury this summer. I get so excited to play after watching this level of football. I'm really depressed about it. The US not winning against Portugal makes it worse.

I'm missing summer league which is the most competitive league I play in, filled with mostly current and former college players. A number of professional and semi professional players too. Played against 3 guys from the Jamaican under 23 national team last summer. It was really, really hard to stay with those guys, on and off the ball.

Interestingly enough, we have a former UCONN player on our team as well. That's pretty cool.

True- you're spot on about players not subbing themselves out. I'm sure there's that will to play through your exhaustion as well at this level.

Hope the ankle heals well- those are tough injuries.

Last fall I tore my calf muscle- the first time I ever injured myself playing soccer. I was out for two months. I'm going to be 38 in a few months and everyone keeps telling me that many more injuries will be waiting for me!