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OT - US Open

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The difference would be the hole would be played completely differently if they set it up as they claimed they would before his complaints.

From where the tees are set up as a par 4 Speith would be disadvantaged because he can't reach the ideal landing spot.

That DJ gagged the tournament away isn't really related. That the USGA reacted to his comments is interesting.

I could have sworn they established that it would be 4 or 5 on any given day. Do you have a link or something that says his comments made it a par 5? Don't become the Nelson of the sports boards.
 

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whaler11

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I could have sworn they established that it would be 4 or 5 on any given day. Do you have a link or something that says his comments made it a par 5? Don't become the Nelson of the sports boards.
 

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The issue seems clear. The USGA shouldn't change . . . .
Where's your evidence that this happened? I mean, it's a pretty onerous conspiracy charge. You're saying that the folks running golf in the U.S. changed the course layout to favor a single player, who then won. Where is the outrage? Where are the "most other" long players complaining about it? Where is the quote from a USGA official indicating that, "we changed the hole to accommodate Speith."
EDIT - I just read one of your two links - it says this: "“The fact that the wind . . . so at least half this field was going to play a hole that was basically, as a par-4, unplayable." Half the field. Not just Speith and a couple of others, as you suggested. Half.
You're a hater with a conspiracy theory. Grow up. Your guy didn't win.
The other day, I heard a kid in the street screaming for a sunny day so he could swim, and the next day it was sunny.
 

whaler11

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Where's your evidence that this happened? I mean, it's a pretty onerous conspiracy charge. You're saying that the folks running golf in the U.S. changed the course layout to favor a single player, who then won. Where is the outrage? Where are the "most other" long players complaining about it? Where is the quote from a USGA official indicating that, "we changed the hole to accommodate Speith."
You're a hater with a conspiracy theory.
The other day, I heard a kid in the street screaming for a sunny day so he could swim, and the next day it was sunny.

You'd think having no idea what you are talking about would have stopped you at some point.... but you are going with 'hater'? Are you 15?
 
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The US Open is about to start in a really unique course call Chambers Bay. No water, no rough, lots of sand and dunes, rippled fairways and undulating greens.

I think it's been considered to be a European course.

Who do you think has an advantage - who do you think will win?

I'm going with Rory.
I just can't wait to watch them play this course, it's going to be fun for sure. What a great venue. No lead will be safe here on Sunday.
The course is a cow pasture made artificially difficult by letting the greens burn out. I don't think we'll see another US Open there.
 
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They made the right decision. Just about everyone agrees that they made the right decision. That they may have done it because of the complaints of Speith (who wasn't alone in his comments), is a secondary concern.
 
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If 18 is set up as a par 4 Johnson has a better chance of making up a stroke on Speith than if it's set up as a 5. That Johnson gagged away the tournament with his putter is immaterial.

It has nothing to do with par it has everything to do with the difficulty of their second shot based on how the hole is set up.

Speech isn't that short off the tee so I don't get what the problem is? There are plenty of guys much shorter than him and in the US Open accuracy should also play a part. He looked down the barrel of that one par 4 which showed you visually the carry of 280 down the middle and he didn't bail right he went well over that. This change was not about Jordan Speith but instead was about the last 4 holes being risk/reward and it turned out just as they expected. Good for some, not so much for others.

He earned it and the course was fun. The greens were awful and if they don't complain about them they're crazy because the USGA was more worried about hard and fast rather than consistent greens.
 
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The course is a cow pasture made artificially difficult by letting the greens burn out. I don't think we'll see another US Open there.

Love the course and if they can change the greens they will get another Open there and maybe a PGA. It was fun to watch for the viewer I believe.
 
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That was the worst course in the history of the US Open. Tricked up fairways were even worse than the fluffy burned out miniature golf greens/browns. The dramatic conclusion was screwed up by the pathetic FOX coverage. After having cameras shamelessly down the throats of golfers all day, they missed having a Spieth reaction shot after Dustin Johnson farted away a playoff chance. Greg Norman added nothing. Joe Buck? Why? Blah. FOX, at one point, had a split screen showing McIlroy getting into contention on one side and Jason Day on the other. Rory putting, Day just standing behind the green after his putt. Once Rory holed out they went to full screen, following Day on the ridiculous 90 yard walk to the next tee. No talk from announcers, just the roving camera focusing on Day's walking body and, of course, eyeballs whenever possible. This ploy was obviously just to capture a potential dizzy spell from Day. Just despicable but not unexpected from the company whose main agenda is to create human drama when none exists. Give them a plus for more tracer shots, helpful yardage graphics and some long distance audio of golfer/caddie conversations but if they never cover another golf tournament, I'll be happier than Tiger Woods on the driving range.
 
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After having cameras shamelessly down the throats of golfers all day,
I liked it. This is what made it interesting. This telecast, more than any I've seen, put us closer to the action. Cameras at ground level behind shots from the rough. Lots of golfer/caddy dialogue. Really liked it. It had its very noticeable warts, to be sure (such as the ones you mentioned), but I was more entertained than the "now let's go to 17 to see some guy completely out of it hit a birdie. Now let's go back to 15 to see some has-been have a moment of glory. Now let's go back to 17 to get a witty comment from the Irish announcer. Now back to bang, boom, bang, boom non stop."
I also liked the tracers on the shots. I wish they put that on every shot - nothing worse than a shot of white golfball in the air and there is no context as to where it's going.
This is like the ESPN website change - humans are just against change as a basic rule.
Also sounds like you have an axe to grind with the network? I mean, come on, the "they're making up stories out of nothing," can be hung on every news outlet ever.
 
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Are people really arguing whether the hole was set up as a 4 or a 5? One of the best golfers in the world had a 12'4" eagle putt for the win and he threejacked it. From 12 ft. End of discussion.
 

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Are people really arguing whether the hole was set up as a 4 or a 5? One of the best golfers in the world had a 12'4" eagle putt for the win and he threejacked it. From 12 ft. End of discussion.

Sometimes things are just that simple. My only tournament golf experience is being the "D" player in a couple of local scrambles and I would feel like a chump if I 3-putted from 12 feet.
 

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How the tournament played out and what influence Speith may have had on how the course was set up are completely separate conversations.
 
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Sometimes things are just that simple. My only tournament golf experience is being the "D" player in a couple of local scrambles and I would feel like a chump if I 3-putted from 12 feet.

Well if you 3 putted from 12 feet in a local "scramble" there would be 3 other chumps with you! ;)
 
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Also sounds like you have an axe to grind with the network? I mean, come on, the "they're making up stories out of nothing," can be hung on every news outlet ever.
True. My 'axes' are buttons and they work for any outlet. Mute, Channel up/down, Exit - they all work but don't bring me any pleasure. Technically, FOX has always been an innovator and it showed well here. Socially, they're trying to find or else create emotional moments for the viewer. Creating them is cloying and I rage against that machine in all contexts. Finding them is the new reality. Find the baby or burgeoning tear. It's all to increase female viewership. Yes, they all do it to an extent. Evening network newscasts even do it. It can be interesting to get closer to the inside workings of an athlete. In the Olympics, it's why we see so little action and so many in-person stories. It wish there was less of it but there's no going back. The balance between reality and cloying for emotional connection is far out of whack. Personally, I want to watch golf and hear analysts expertly analyze conditions, decisions and execution, not dig into my inner self's hidden desire to see how others handle success and failure or make some kind of implicit phony connection to the participants.
 
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How the tournament played out and what influence Speith may have had on how the course was set up are completely separate conversations.

So do you disagree that making the 18th a par 5 was in fact the correct decision?

People seem to be ignoring the fact that several other players complained about 18 when set up as a par 4, even if Speith was the most articulate as to the reason. Crediting Speith with triggering the change is the simple answer, not necessarily the right one.
 
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I can't believe this could even have been close to the worst course in US Open history. I mean the greens were a disgrace for the most part agreed but they were still making putts. As a fan and a viewer it's a heck of a lot more fun to watch these guys trying to drive par 4's, reaching par 5's only if they drive it in a small area and being able to hit shots out of the fescue. I mean watching these guys hit sand wedges out of 4-6" rough sideways because they can't advance the ball isn't a fun watch for me. Shoal Creek comes to mind as a nightmare to play. But it's up to what you like. I mean despite all the great shots we saw -5 was the winner and it was anyone's game going into the back 9 including Rory who was 8 back and Louie who took advantage of his length. That's fun for me.
 

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So do you disagree that making the 18th a par 5 was in fact the correct decision?

People seem to be ignoring the fact that several other players complained about 18 when set up as a par 4, even if Speith was the most articulate as to the reason. Crediting Speith with triggering the change is the simple answer, not necessarily the right one.

Only watching on TV I don't have a problem with it. I just found it interesting and people want to give him credit because it was better that's fine.
 
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Sometimes things are just that simple. My only tournament golf experience is being the "D" player in a couple of local scrambles and I would feel like a chump if I 3-putted from 12 feet.
Pretty sure you never faced that putt. Jason Day had a better angle (flatter) from slightly farther and couldn't stop it either. Once DJ fixes his putter, no one will stop him.
 

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Pretty sure you never faced that putt. Jason Day had a better angle (flatter) from slightly farther and couldn't stop it either. Once DJ fixes his putter, no one will stop him.
I'm not sure it's fixable. All week holes 1-12, he was the best putter - pretty sure they said he was statistically the number one putter at some point on Saturday or Sunday. Everyday Friday through Sunday he gave up 2 or 3 strokes on the final 6 holes and most of those were misses under 6 feet. He's not a good pressure putter - very solid non pressure putter. That's hard to fix.

Don't get me wrong - I really like DJ and would like to see him win some majors, I just don't know if he has the DNA to get that done.

That's what made Jack so good - when the pressure was on, he was a better putter. He embraced and excelled when under pressure. Same with Tiger before his collapse. And Spieth has that too.
 
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Pretty sure you never faced that putt. Jason Day had a better angle (flatter) from slightly farther and couldn't stop it either. Once DJ fixes his putter, no one will stop him.

Fixes his putter? That was his first 3 putt within 15 feet all season. Nothing wrong with his putter. He choked.
 
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