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OT: US Open

maaah. I've always said Serena is a great athlete and the best woman tennis player of all time - was saying that a few years ago.
I don't know enough about the "coaches always coach" claim by Serena's coach to have an opinion on whether it was out of line, but . . . this umpire has been around a long time and has had issues with other players. Nadal, Djoker, Venus, all of them. The guy is a known "stickler" and has been accused of inserting himself into matches. Venus was accused by him of receiving coaching during a match.
So . . . Serena certainly knew all this and could easily have seen where it was going. Multiple warnings, she called him a thief, she broke her racket . . . .
Serena put the focus on the umpire because she was in trouble, and she knew it.
She was blown out in the 1st set 6-2. She has lost 4 of her last 6 major finals. In the 4 losses, she lost the first set. Three of those were 2 set matches. In the two wins, she won the first set, and they were 2 set matches.

To say that Serena was coming back or was knocked off her game by the ref seems like scapegoating by the goat.
She was hammered in the first set and lost 6-2.
She was up 3-1 in the 2nd set after getting her only break of the match, then Osaka broke her, causing her to smash her racket - the score is 3-2 Williams at that point. Osaka holds serve. 3-3. Osaka breaks Williams to go up 4-3.
At this point, Serena is being buried, has just lost 3 straight games, and Osaka is serving.
At this point Serena decides to call the Ref a thief and berate him.

Serena screwed up. She was losing and she knew she was going down. Instead of losing gracefully, she chose to focus attention on the Ref and essentially force his hand. Not a nice thing to do to Osaka, who deserved the win and the glory.

But hey, she's the GOAT because of her competitiveness, and she's earned the right to go off the rails. McEnroe was unbearable.

As for the "men get away with this thing"? Yeah, that's like Kevin Spacey playing the gay card when he was accused of sexually assaulting a minor - a huge red herring.
She's been playing professional tennis for 20 years. Complaining about gender inequality from the refs when she was clearly going down was disrespectful to Osaka.
And hey, you make the same money as the men while putting in 60% of the effort on the court, so quit crying.
 
MadDogRevival said:
maaah. I've always said Serena is a great athlete and the best woman tennis player of all time - was saying that a few years ago.
I don't know enough about the "coaches always coach" claim by Serena's coach to have an opinion on whether it was out of line, but . . . this umpire has been around a long time and has had issues with other players. Nadal, Djoker, Venus, all of them. The guy is a known "stickler" and has been accused of inserting himself into matches. Venus was accused by him of receiving coaching during a match.
So . . . Serena certainly knew all this and could easily have seen where it was going. Multiple warnings, she called him a thief, she broke her racket . . . .
Serena put the focus on the umpire because she was in trouble, and she knew it.
She was blown out in the 1st set 6-2. She has lost 4 of her last 6 major finals. In the 4 losses, she lost the first set. Three of those were 2 set matches. In the two wins, she won the first set, and they were 2 set matches.

To say that Serena was coming back or was knocked off her game by the ref seems like scapegoating by the goat.
She was hammered in the first set and lost 6-2.
She was up 3-1 in the 2nd set after getting her only break of the match, then Osaka broke her, causing her to smash her racket - the score is 3-2 Williams at that point. Osaka holds serve. 3-3. Osaka breaks Williams to go up 4-3.
At this point, Serena is being buried, has just lost 3 straight games, and Osaka is serving.
At this point Serena decides to call the Ref a thief and berate him.

Serena screwed up. She was losing and she knew she was going down. Instead of losing gracefully, she chose to focus attention on the Ref and essentially force his hand. Not a nice thing to do to Osaka, who deserved the win and the glory.

But hey, she's the GOAT because of her competitiveness, and she's earned the right to go off the rails. McEnroe was unbearable.

As for the "men get away with this thing"? Yeah, that's like Kevin Spacey playing the gay card when he was accused of sexually assaulting a minor - a huge red herring.
She's been playing professional tennis for 20 years. Complaining about gender inequality from the refs when she was clearly going down was disrespectful to Osaka.
And hey, you make the same money as the men while putting in 60% of the effort on the court, so quit crying.
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She never would have acted the way she did if her father was in the stands like in the early days. I've always felt that the divorce from their mother and his distancing himself from the family took a toll on both Williams girls. The fact that his second wife was only a year older than Venus probably didn't help things. His health is not good either.
 
Serena said her coach doesn't do any coaching from the box and was lecturing the chair ump, her coach admits he was coaching her from the box. The rule violation and taking away a point I have no problem with. Taking away the game can certainly be viewed as a bit excessive, she was clearly having a meltdown and wouldn't let it go but still....I honestly think a big part of Serena's meltdown is that she knew she couldn't beat Osaka. Serena has now played Osaka teice and has yet to win a set off her.

There is some validity in the argument that female players are treated differently but there is video of this chair taking away a point from Djokovic for far less. I also don't remember Fed, Nadal, and Djoker threatening umps and demanding apologies.

I'm used to when I grew up and McEnroe would throw rackets all over the court and curse out the chair and Connors would call the chair "an abortion."
 
huskyrob1 said:
She never would have acted the way she did if her father was in the stands like in the early days. I've always felt that the divorce from their mother and his distancing himself from the family took a toll on both Williams girls. The fact that his second wife was only a year older than Venus probably didn't help things. His health is not good either.
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She acted like this when her dad was around, this is nothing new. She's threatened people on the court before. There was that memorable one where she was cursing out the official and threatened to shove her racket down her throat and make her choke on it. The woman said Serena threatened to kill her, who knows...
 
superjohn said:
She acted like this when her dad was around, this is nothing new. She's threatened people on the court before. There was that memorable one where she was cursing out the official and threatened to shove her racket down her throat and make her choke on it. The woman said Serena threatened to kill her, who knows...
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Oh no, you're way off. He divorced Oracine way back in 2002 and took a much less visible role in their careers not too long after that when he began dating Lakeisha Graham who is only a year older than Venus. He married Graham in 2010. Serena started having meltdowns in 2009, which IIRC is the incident you're referring to, or maybe it was 2011.
 
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huskyrob1 said:
Oh no, you're way off. He divorced Oracine way back in 2002 and took a much less visible role in their careers not too long after that when he began dating Lakeisha Graham who is only a year older than Venus. He married Graham in 2010. Serena started having meltdowns in 2009, which IIRC is the incident you're referring to, or maybe it was 2011.
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So a mid-30's woman can't keep it together because her 76 year old dad isn't at her matches. Sorry, I give her more credit than that.
 
.-.
superjohn said:
So a mid-30's woman can't keep it together because her 76 year old dad isn't at her matches. Sorry, I give her more credit than that.
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Not saying she can't keep it together because he isn't there, what I'm saying is she would keep it together if he was. There's a big difference in meaning, between using the words would and could.
 
superjohn said:
She acted like this when her dad was around, this is nothing new. She's threatened people on the court before. There was that memorable one where she was cursing out the official and threatened to shove her racket down her throat and make her choke on it. The woman said Serena threatened to kill her, who knows...
Expand ...
 
superjohn said:
She acted like this when her dad was around, this is nothing new. She's threatened people on the court before. There was that memorable one where she was cursing out the official and threatened to shove her racket down her throat and make her choke on it. The woman said Serena threatened to kill her, who knows...
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She was born and raised in Compton
And therefore, flashbacks and PTSD happen. I gotta cut her a little slack. Say what you want.
 
I have to tread lightly since it's a touchy subject. Many truly elite athletes, the best of the best, are a-h0les. It kinda comes with the territory. MJ was. Tiger Woods is. Serena is. These folks don't handle failure well; society needs to stop putting them on a pedestal and making excuses for them. MJ was fortunate enough to play in an era where the media protected him and before social media. Tiger is a massive a-h0le off the course and on it. They all behave like spoiled children when things don't go their way. It was interesting, though not surprising, to see so many rush to Serena's defense but that was an embarrassing display and I can't believe she's doubled down and is sticking to her guns.
 
This was clinical by Novak, I feel badly for Del Potro. It's hard to believe just a few months ago articles were being written about Djokovic being done, he's now got himself back in the argument for best of all-time, he's the best hardcourt player ever.

Tennis fans have been spoiled rotten this generation watching the three best to ever do it, IMO.
 
williams said:
"Every time I play here, I have problems. I did not have coaching, I don't cheat. You need to make an announcement. I have a daughter and I stand for what's right. You owe me an apology.

'For you to attack my character is wrong. You owe me an apology. You will never be on a court with me as long as you live. You are the liar. You owe me an apology. Say it. Say you're sorry.

'How dare you insinuate that I was cheating? You stole a point from me. You're a thief too."
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"Every time I play here, I have problems." Just BS? If not, specifically when? Surely not every time Williams has played at Flushing Meadows!

"I have a daughter ..." Really? So what? Maybe some guys get away with a bit more than some women at times, but having a child is no excuse for acting in the emotionally out-of-control manner Williams exhibited. Nor should any player have any influence over which umpires ump, referees ref, line judges judge, etc. Perhaps supposed sexism wasn't enough of an excuse for Williams, so she just tossed in some parent-ism BS excuse for good measure.

Disagree with the call; say your piece in a fashion exhibiting you're an adult and the more mature, experienced, and accomplished player on the court. Turn the page, use the ump's purportedly unfair call or supposed theft as motivation especially when getting your arse kicked by a 20 year old upstart versus continuing to whine like a spoiled brat, then slam your racquet to the ground in a temper tantrum akin to a human your infant child's age, etc.

Not that Williams appeared to be fighting back in the match, but perhaps yesterday's over-the-top actions will serve her right should a 24th major tourney win never occur. Boo hoo hoo!
 
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Not surprising that a board comprised mostly of old white men hold onto bias against a black female athlete and want her to be penalized for speaking truth to power. Protect the establishment!

I've never, ever seen an official in any sport impact a championship so directly. Serena lost her cool but was on mic the whole time and never even swore and other than the racket there were no physical displays. Compare that to old time tennis players and what goes on by coaches/player in any major sport. That ruling was terrible. The chair umpire needs to put on his big boy pants and take it like a man. He robbed the players (both) and entire audience of any chance of a competitive match. That's not his job and it is on him. Expect changes.

To wit:
WTA CEO Steve Simon on Final
In a statement released on Sunday, Simon said the "WTA believes that there should be no difference in the standards of tolerance provided to the emotions expressed by men vs. women and is committed to working with the sport to ensure that all players are treated the same. We do not believe that this was done last night."
 
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After Saturday, there was zero chance that ump was going to give a warning for anything yesterday.

And I'm going to call BS on the idea that someone once did something worse, so Serena should have been allowed to get away with whatever she wanted.

That's an argument every five-year old on earth has put forth and not gotten away with. I give her extra credit for throwing in "People are mean to girls", but that argument is a dog as well.

Here's an idea - don't be an a** hole and you won't lose points.
 
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Six years ago, David Nalbandian kicked a wooden board containing ad signage at a judge and gashed the judge's leg open. They ended up finding him $4,000 less for that than what Serena ended up getting saddled with.

I'm not defending Serena's behavior and don't think she should've gotten off scot-free, but to think she's getting fined more than someone who was investigated for criminal assault against an official...
 
Stainmaster said:
Six years ago, David Nalbandian kicked a wooden board containing ad signage at a judge and gashed the judge's leg open. They ended up finding him $4,000 less for that than what Serena ended up getting saddled with.

I'm not defending Serena's behavior and don't think she should've gotten off scot-free, but to think she's getting fined more than someone who was investigated for criminal assault against an official...
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And Serena called the ump a liar and a thief over and over again despite him not lying and not stealing from her.

She acted like an idiot, everyone needs to get over it.
 
superjohn said:
And Serena called the ump a liar and a thief over and over again despite him not lying and not stealing from her.

She acted like an idiot, everyone needs to get over it.
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In what world should calling someone a liar and a thief merit a larger penalty than physically wounding someone and causing them to need immediate medical attention?
 
Stainmaster said:
In what world should calling someone a liar and a thief merit a larger penalty than physically wounding someone and causing them to need immediate medical attention?
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I didn't say it did but Serena demanding an apology is ridiculous when she should be the one apologizing. Nalbandian was kicked out of that match, a far larger penalty.
 
.-.
Lefty2one said:
I have to tread lightly since it's a touchy subject. Many truly elite athletes, the best of the best, are a-h0les. It kinda comes with the territory. MJ was. Tiger Woods is. Serena is. These folks don't handle failure well; society needs to stop putting them on a pedestal and making excuses for them. MJ was fortunate enough to play in an era where the media protected him and before social media. Tiger is a massive a-h0le off the course and on it. They all behave like spoiled children when things don't go their way. It was interesting, though not surprising, to see so many rush to Serena's defense but that was an embarrassing display and I can't believe she's doubled down and is sticking to her guns.
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She waived around her child and fake sexism like a loaded gun.

She’s a scumbag. Plain and simple.

You act like that in any other sport and you don’t even get to finish the game.
 
the Q said:
She waived around her child and fake sexism like a loaded gun.

She’s a scumbag. Plain and simple.

You act like that in any other sport and you don’t even get to finish the game.
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You have a very loose definition of "scumbag."
 
superjohn said:
I didn't say it did but Serena demanding an apology is ridiculous when she should be the one apologizing. Nalbandian was kicked out of that match, a far larger penalty.
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Serena's actions were themselves 100% in the wrong. The only thing compelling me to defend her in any sense is that I don't find this to be a fair penalty. The Nalbandian example was extreme, but there's plenty of evidence of men's tour players berating officials and facing a lot less in the consequences department.
 
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