OT--UConn considering 25.5 percent tuition increase over four years

[upstater]

You're either intentionally being deceitful or your math is terrible. I'll let you claim which one.
Is this what they teach you in the institutional system? To make up numbers? To make up arguments that sound good?

Let's s start with this basic math:
(313-226)/226 = 38.5% So the rise in population, using your numbers, is 38.5%, not 40%.

Then, using the graph I supplied, above, the college population, in millions, went from about 12 to about 20 million over that same span. (20-12)/12 is 8/12 which is 75%.

That means that the increase in college students over the 30 year span, as a percent, is about double the general population increase, as a percent. So, professor, you weren't even close. You get an F, and it's going to take you an extra year to graduate.

If I had to guess, I don't think your math skills explain your post. I think you intentionally rigged the numbers because that's how you've been taught to do things as a lifer in a failing system.

I drink YOUR milkshake.

My math was bad. But I also had different numbers than you, because you excel at inflating things. 20 million? No. Looks like 19 million, and I was at 12.5 million for 1980. So, my numbers come out to 52%. But, as I said, look at Bricks&Mortars and take out for-profits. 3.2 million for profits. 19-2.3=16.7-12.5=4.2 million increase.

As for the last comment, you're in Bernie Fine territory, I don't know what the hell that means.

 

[Prezidint]

By the way, the standard for discharging private debt is lot easier than discharging federal loans. There are a lot of allowances for discharging private debt that aren't available to you otherwise. If you're unemployed, it's possible to discharge private debt, but not federal loans. You just have a higher standard you have to meet than, say, trying to get out of credit card debt.

Huh?
I was reading the Bankruptcy code just yesterday. Can you please direct me to the statute that says Federally guaranteed loans may be dischargable? I have clients who would find that extremely useful.

Also, with regard to employment, can you please direct me to the Code sections that make discharge dependent on employment? I've been looking at the bankruptcy code for many years now, and I can't seem to find that section.

It seems that I was under the bizarre impression that total non-exempt income was all that mattered when applying the Chapter 13/7 means test.

Are you giving any Bankruptcy seminars any time soon? I'd love to attend. Will you be making up numbers there too, or just for discussions of college enrollment.

Jesus. You are unreal. But an exemplar for the college system in the U.S., no doubt.

 

[Prezidint]

My math was bad. But I also had different numbers than you, because you excel at inflating things. 20 million? No. Looks like 19 million, and I was at 12.5 million for 1980. So, my numbers come out to 52%. But, as I said, look at Bricks&Mortars and take out for-profits. 3.2 million for profits. 19-2.3=16.7-12.5=4.2 million increase.

Bullsh-t. You're a liar. You're still trying to make up numbers.

 

[upstater]

ya, no kidding. I brought up the fact that they changed the law because in the 70's and 80's so many students were filing right finishing school to get rid of the debt.
With govn't guaranteed loaned (which in reality nothing really is guaranteed), and private loans that have very little downside for the privates, a artificial demand is created in mkt. The GSEs did this during the housing bubble. Sallie and harder discharges on privates are doing it to the college loan mkt.

Guaranteed student loans are capped. The rise in the cap over the years is below inflation. Students at public schools don't need more than the cap to get their degree. So private loans are irrelevant for all but private schools and for-profit schools. not needed at state schools for kids who work during the summer. There's no evidence for your point about loans leading to inflated tuition when the cuts in taxpayer subsidies far exceed the rise in tuition.

 

[upstater]

Huh?
I was reading the Bankruptcy code just yesterday. Can you please direct me to the statute that says Federally guaranteed loans may be dischargable? I have clients who would find that extremely useful.

Also, with regard to employment, can you please direct me to the Code sections that make discharge dependent on employment? I've been looking at the bankruptcy code for many years now, and I can't seem to find that section.

It seems that I was under the bizarre impression that total non-exempt income was all that mattered when applying the Chapter 13/7 means test.

Are you giving any Bankruptcy seminars any time soon? I'd love to attend. Will you be making up numbers there too, or just for discussions of college enrollment.

Jesus. You are unreal. But an exemplar for the college system in the U.S., no doubt.

I never said federal guaranteed loans are dischargeable. I said private loans.

Tell your clients to look into IBR. What was so difficult about looking that up the first time, difficulty reading?

 

[61cygni]

You're either intentionally being deceitful or your math is terrible.

Then, using the graph I supplied, above, the college population, in millions, went from about 12 to about 20 million over that same span. (20-12)/12 is 8/12 which is 75%.

8/12 is 75%? (Just kidding around )

 

[Prezidint]

8/12 is 75%? (Just kidding around )

Good catch - probably closer to 66.
I'm just pissed. I hate the college scam in this country, and having a guy come on here making up numbers to try to say that giving loans out to every wandering 18 year old, thereby encouraging over-competition, thereby driving up prices is not happening is galling.

It's inarguable that college enrollment is way up, yet this guy comes on here and makes crap up in a self-serving effort to try to hide what is as plain as day.

 

[Wolferowski]

Good catch - probably closer to 66.
I'm just pissed. I hate the college scam in this country, and having a guy come on here making up numbers to try to say that giving loans out to every wandering 18 year old, thereby encouraging over-competition, thereby driving up prices is galling.

100% on the same page as you. You've earned a like

 

[WhereistheDove?]

If you can't afford college, join the Army reserve. That's what my brother did and it made a very expensive private school very affordable, with great experience and a little money on the side. I have plenty of friends who have taken that route as well. It's not for everyone though.

 

[upstater]

Bullsh-t. You're a liar. You're still trying to make up numbers.

Says someone who doesn't know the basic difference between expenditures and tuition. I mean, you can't even grasp the basics. I said I was wrong on my calculation. Simple as that. The fact that the rise in tuition does NOT correlate with the increase in population is lost on you as well. The fastest growth in tuition occurred between 1985 and 2000. Since then it's stabilized. In that period, the rise was from 13 million to 15 million students. Not enough to account for the rise in tuition.

And you attempted to totally lie about things by disregarding population growth, the rise of for-profits, which has not only distorted the student loan problem but also the number of students enrolled in degree programs (the vast majority of for-profit students do not earn a degree).

I admitted my mistake. You have yet to admit any of yours, from the most basic (not having a grasp of tuition v. costs) to allowing for other factors in the equations (population growth).

 

[upstater]

Good catch - probably closer to 66.
I'm just pissed. I hate the college scam in this country, and having a guy come on here making up numbers to try to say that giving loans out to every wandering 18 year old, thereby encouraging over-competition, thereby driving up prices is not happening is galling.

It's inarguable that college enrollment is way up, yet this guy comes on here and makes crap up in a self-serving effort to try to hide what is as plain as day.

No you are a LIARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!

You lied about the 75%.

 

[upstater]

100% on the same page as you. You've earned a like

Continue to ignore the facts.

 

[upstater]

lol.

ya know, I originally started posting on the topic because I was saying that the author of the article doesn't know how to calculate % increase. upstater argued with me for a while about it, then eventually said he was agreeing with me she wrote it wrong. hmmm

Uh, I didn't agree with you that she miscalculated. I said she was looking at the rise in students. The 53% number is correct when we're talking about rise in students.

 

[upstater]

Good catch - probably closer to 66.
I'm just pissed. I hate the college scam in this country, and having a guy come on here making up numbers to try to say that giving loans out to every wandering 18 year old, thereby encouraging over-competition, thereby driving up prices is not happening is galling.

It's inarguable that college enrollment is way up, yet this guy comes on here and makes crap up in a self-serving effort to try to hide what is as plain as day.

Did I say enrollment isn't up?

You're just making stuff up now. Suggestion: stop being "pissed" and start acting like a grown-up.

 

[Prezidint]

I never said federal guaranteed loans are dischargeable. I said private loans.

Frankly, I was into this conversation when I thought you were being sincere. There are a lot of people who are sincere and believe in unsupportable ideas. I can deal with that.
But it's plain that you're a liar, and you'll say anything to try to prove your point.

You have all this knowledge about college in the U.S., you've added many posts chock full of content to this thread, but you didn't know that enrollment is way up (even by your 2nd pass numbers)? Please. That's an impossible contradiction. It's like a criminal lawyer who can quote half the criminal code from memory trying to say he doesn't know what larceny is.

You have zero credibility now, and any reasonable person reading this thread knows it.

You tried to pull a fast one with the numbers, and I caught you.

I have no interest in discussing the topic with somebody who would so boldly hide plain facts.

The last lie you wrote that I'll read, which is quoted above, is deceitful. You wrote, "By the way, the standard for discharging private debt is lot easier than discharging federal loans."
Really?
Cite the Bankruptcy Code section that has a "standards" test of any sort that differs by debt type.

You have no credibility. Have fun.

 

[Wolferowski]

She actually changed her entire article because I called her out on her faulty numbers.

No, you were disputing the % rise.

In reality the increase tuition is since 1996 is 105%.

 

[upstater]

Frankly, I was into this conversation when I thought you were being sincere. There are a lot of people who are sincere and believe in unsupportable ideas. I can deal with that.
But it's plain that you're a liar, and you'll say anything to try to prove your point.

You called me a liar for blowing my math, and then you blew your math. I'm a liar, you're a blowhard and a hypocrite.

You have all this knowledge about college in the U.S., you've added many posts chock full of content to this thread, but you didn't know that enrollment is way up (even by your 2nd pass numbers)? Please.

Never said enrollment wasn't up. You're so incensed, apparently, you've forgotten how to read.

That's an impossible contradiction. It's like a criminal lawyer who can quote half the criminal code from memory trying to say he doesn't know what larceny is.

You have zero credibility now, and any reasonable person reading this thread knows it.

Don't know the difference between costs and tuition. There's your fundamental error, and even when it's explained to you in plain terms, you have difficulty comprehending it. or maybe you're smart but insincere.

You tried to pull a fast one with the numbers, and I caught you.

So, I admitted my mistake. But you're the one who tried to pull a fast one with the numbers, and you DIDN'T admit it, because you can't. You're "pissed."

I have no interest in discussing the topic with somebody who would so boldly hide plain facts.

Sorry I didn't catch my bad caluclation, I should've written 75% !!!! ROFL!!!!

The last lie you wrote that I'll read, which is quoted above, is deceitful. You wrote, "By the way, the standard for discharging private debt is lot easier than discharging federal loans."
Really?
Cite the Bankruptcy Code section that has a "standards" test of any sort that differs by debt type.

You have no credibility. Have fun.

I'm not a lawyer, never been in bankruptcy, I pay my loans, all I know is that people say federal student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy court. Maybe I'm wrong, I've only heard from thousands of people that this was the case.

 

[upstater]

She actually changed her entire article because I called her out on her faulty numbers.

No, you were disputing the % rise.

In reality the increase tuition is since 1996 is 105%.

Wrong, this is what I wrote to you:

Uh, it says undergraduate enrollment has increased by 53%

 

[Wolferowski]

Wrong, this is what I wrote to you:

you love arguing, huh pal?

Since 1995, tuition at UConn has increased by 53 percent to $22,472.

is what she wrote. you kept telling me I was wrong, not my calculation. based on the information she had there 1995's tuition would have been 14,700. I was saying that was wrong, you were saying I'm wrong.

 

[upstater]

you love arguing, huh pal?

Since 1995, tuition at UConn has increased by 53 percent to $22,472.

is what she wrote. you kept telling me I was wrong, not my calculation. based on the information she had there 1995's tuition would have been 14,700. I was saying that was wrong, you were saying I'm wrong.

Err, huh? I was saying the figure refers to a 53 percent increase in students. You implied my calculations were off and that in the end I agreed with you.

 

[RS9999X]

Herbst proposes a 101% increase over 13 years. Unadjusted for inflation
Inflation from Fall 2001-Fall 2013 estimated at 28%
Per Capita Income (est) 40% rise non adjusted.
CT Median Income from 2001 to 2013 estimated a 26% increase (55K to 69K) unadjusted.
-------------------------------------------------------------

It's not sustainable as a Resident University. As an International Research University that attracts top flight talent and creates jobs in leading research and scientific fields? That 's the new model. The Big Time Academic Arms Fest.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UConn fees and tuition in 2001-2002 - $5,874 (No room and board. In-state only. Unadjusted for 28% inflation)

Herbst's proposed 2013-2014 fees and tuition - $11,806 (a 101% increase in 13 years).

Those facts shouldn't be in dispute. They don't tell the whole story but they are what they are

 

[MarieM]

Yikes, how much does it cost for out of state students? Honestly in these days college isn't worth 100K.

between 27-35k i think

 

[Fishy]

So you picked up a Galaxy Nexus on launch day? How is it?

Actually, keep your powder dry before buying one.

Both of ours have to go back to the mothership for replacement. The screens have some major issues.

 

[Peacefrog]

My math was bad. But I also had different numbers than you, because you excel at inflating things. 20 million? No. Looks like 19 million, and I was at 12.5 million for 1980. So, my numbers come out to 52%. But, as I said, look at Bricks&Mortars and take out for-profits. 3.2 million for profits. 19-2.3=16.7-12.5=4.2 million increase.

As for the last comment, you're in Bernie Fine territory, I don't know what the hell that means.

"I drink YOUR milkshake"

Its Daniel Plainview.

 

[RS9999X]

between 27-35k i think

Proposed Rates for Fall 2013

$11,806 - In-State Tuition and Fees (a 101% increase in 12 years - Fall 2001 - 2013)
$23,280 - In State on Campus (a 92% increase in 12 years)
$42,144 - Out of State on Campus (A 98.5% increase in 12 years)

28% consumer inflation during the same time period.