OT--UConn considering 25.5 percent tuition increase over four years

[husky99]

http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/...nt-tuition-increase-2399595.php#ixzz1gczIoudv

____________

insane....

 

[Fishy]

Wow - that's freakin' steep.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[zyron]

I am glad I graduated in 01, the price of College is out of control now.

 

[Prezidint]

In an economy that's on a downward trajectory and showing no signs of pulling up, this is . . .

discouraging.

Further, the boom in attending college has been created in large part by the over-borrowing of the last 30 years. It is a bubble no less than housing and the dot com bubbles were. In today's economy, a large percentage of people getting out of college won't be getting jobs that pay more than 15 bucks an hour. Accordingly, application rates will trend downward, and colleges will be pressed. I expect closures some time in the not distant future.

Fact is, most people are wasting their time in college right now. Sure it's fun, but about 1/2 the majors could be eliminated tomorrow with little or no effect on the economy.

Colleges that want to compete at the top level should be dramatically looking to streamline their schools and keep costs as low as possible.

But, unfortunately, this is the nature of the culture - there generally is no attention given to cutting costs until it's the only possible alternative. Raise rates until your applicant pool shrinks, then panic.

 

[Robertelamin]

Yikes, how much does it cost for out of state students? Honestly in these days college isn't worth 100K.

 

[tykurez]

Wow - that's freakin' steep.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

So you picked up a Galaxy Nexus on launch day? How is it?

 

[Fishy]

I've actually had it for a little while -we do some work with cellular carriers. Wasn't supposed to take it out about until today.

It's an unlocked GSM version, not the Verizon LTE version.

It's pretty nice - relatively light, great screen. ICS is more pleasant to use than Gingerbread and so much nicer than the Honeycomb abortion.

Still new to it - fairly pleased thus far, even if it still has some jarring notes for an iOS/WP 7.5 user.

 

[upstater]

In an economy that's on a downward trajectory and showing no signs of pulling up, this is . . .

discouraging.

Further, the boom in attending college has been created in large part by the over-borrowing of the last 30 years. It is a bubble no less than housing and the dot com bubbles were. In today's economy, a large percentage of people getting out of college won't be getting jobs that pay more than 15 bucks an hour. Accordingly, application rates will trend downward, and colleges will be pressed. I expect closures some time in the not distant future.

Fact is, most people are wasting their time in college right now. Sure it's fun, but about 1/2 the majors could be eliminated tomorrow with little or no effect on the economy.

Colleges that want to compete at the top level should be dramatically looking to streamline their schools and keep costs as low as possible.

But, unfortunately, this is the nature of the culture - there generally is no attention given to cutting costs until it's the only possible alternative. Raise rates until your applicant pool shrinks, then panic.

This is wrong.

If anyone wants a study of these issues, I can send you links. Costs are not expanding past inflation, tuition is up. There's a difference. Someone from Cal-Berkeley recently made the same point to me, and all I had to do was go on Cal's page for the budget to show that this is incorrect.

This is what I wrote to him:

Studies show that costs are not rising fast.

[He argued it's top heavy administration.]

Administrative pay accounts for less than 1% of the budget in the Cal. system for instance.

Faculty are making less than ever before since there are now only 34% in full-time positions as opposed to 75% a generation ago.

Lack of state funding explains the tuition rise, not increased costs.
On U. Cal's page:
In 1990, the State contributed $16,100 per student.
In 2007, it was $9,500.
By 2010, another $1.15 billion had been cut from the state budget for U. Cal. Current state budget is now $2.6 billion.
Average salaries for faculty have gone up from $51,000 in 1985 to $79,000 in 2001.
Cal-Berkeley's total budget went from 1.224 billion in 1997 to its current 1.59 billion in 2010.
When you look at the increased costs of new technology, much higher health care costs for employee insurance, coupled with deep slashes for state funding, you realize that this accounts for the rise in costs, which are at pace or below with inflation. Tuition and fees are rising fast because the cost per student is not being subsidized as it used to be in the past.

That being said, I totally agree that this proposed cost for UConn is wrong. The flipside however is the reality of current student lives. Look at # of classes offered and class sizes. That's where the so-called fat is being cut, though of course no one mentions that it's not 4 years of schooling anymore, it's 5 years if you're lucky.

The idea that schools haven't cut costs is laughable.

 

[tykurez]

I've actually had it for a little while -we do some work with cellular carriers. Wasn't supposed to take it out about until today.

It's an unlocked GSM version, not the Verizon LTE version.

It's pretty nice - relatively light, great screen. ICS is more pleasant to use than Gingerbread and so much nicer than the Honeycomb abortion.

Still new to it - fairly pleased thus far, even if it still has some jarring notes for an iOS/WP 7.5 user.

Where or for whom do you work, if you don't mind me asking? I consistently see you involved in techno-babble threads.

As for the topic on hand, that's a STEEP increase. UConn is already pretty expensive as far as in-staters go. Does this deter out-of-staters?

 

[Prezidint]

This is wrong.

You don't agree that we're living in a culture that cuts costs in govt. and govt. institutions only as a last resort?

Not sure about "state funding" at UConn and whether it's going down or up, but it's not relevant to me.

If making UConn a "top" institution means making it substantially more expensive, then I don't support the move.

The goal should not be to compete with Michigan or Ohio State.

It should be to keep costs as low as possible while also maintaining agreed-upon standards.

The last thing that UConn needs right now is more faculty.

120-180 grand a year for a full professor?

Time to review that as well.

 

[spoop]

Not sure about "state funding" at UConn and whether it's going down or up, but it's not relevant to me.

Really? You don't see how funding of UConn is relevant to a thread about funding UConn?

The last thing that UConn needs right now is more faculty.

Oh ok, glad to see you have no difficulty getting into classes for the spring semester. Which classes are you taking?

 

[FluxTZ]

Wow - that's freakin' steep.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

I got mine this morning too!!!

 

[61cygni]

Call it a hunch, but I don't think that budget plan will go through.

 

[Dove]

Ridiculous.

My wife is a teacher at a public HS. She is so pro trade schools and tech ed programs when she sees the unrealistic opportunities awaiting many kids at colleges.

 

[sledog]

Ivy League, here we come!!

 

[rw005]

Ivy League, here we come!!

Expansion?

but seriously, this is disgusting.

I wonder what the state schools are going to be like as well? (Western, Central, Eastern, Southern)

 

[upstater]

You don't agree that we're living in a culture that cuts costs in govt. and govt. institutions only as a last resort?

Not sure about "state funding" at UConn and whether it's going down or up, but it's not relevant to me.

If making UConn a "top" institution means making it substantially more expensive, then I don't support the move.

The goal should not be to compete with Michigan or Ohio State.

It should be to keep costs as low as possible while also maintaining agreed-upon standards.

The last thing that UConn needs right now is more faculty.

120-180 grand a year for a full professor?

Time to review that as well.

Costs have been cut. If you can't see this, there's very little to help you.
They've done long studies on efficiency in higher ed., studies done at the behest of congressional commissions, and they've determined these enterprises are highly efficient in terms of cost containment. I'd concur since costs are up 2% a year since 1987. This in the face of higher administrative costs (primarily Six Sigma types, efficiency experts), much higher health care costs, new technology which is very expensive for schools. How have the schools responded to the crunch? By slashing the number of full-time faculty from 76% 20 years ago to a current 34%. Enlarging or doubling classes. Offering fewer classes. The net result is that students are unable to graduate on time and end up paying for a fifth year. I'd call that a form of systemic dysfunction.

Why even bother entering this discussion if the amount of taxpayer funding for a state institution is irrelevant? What could be more relevant?

Full-time faculty in that pay range (which is far above by a factor of 2 or 3 the national average) are likely people whose salary is related to the research grants they bring in. So, stop paying them that amount, and the university also then loses the 60% of the grant that it skims off the top.

 

[mets1090]

There are professors at this school that bring in million dollar grants in a year. I know of one specifically that brought in a $4 million dollar grant last year. Paying someone like that $200k is perfectly reasonable, IMO.

As for the tuition hike, I'm glad (or my parents are glad) that I'm graduating now and not in 5-10 years.

 

[Wolferowski]

This is the next bubble to burst.

Healthcare, pensions, etc are all contributing to the problem.

Its a real problem either way. Wages and net income are the same as they were in 1995/96 yet tuition's double about every 10 to 12 years. At this rate my little ones will be attending nctc

 

[Chin Diesel]

Ridiculous.

My wife is a teacher. She is so pro trade schools and tech ed programs.

Absolutely agree with that. One of the biggest scams of the last two generations is that the only way to get a liveable income is with a four year degree.

There's plent of trade schools that provide skills and certifications to make a decent living.

 

[RS9999X]

There are professors at this school that bring in million dollar grants in a year. I know of one specifically that brought in a $4 million dollar grant last year. Paying someone like that $200k is perfectly reasonable, IMO.

.

That's a 5% commission. Does that mean a professor who brings nothing to the table gets nothing?

Every major university has similar problems: A study at Penn found out the problem for them started in the early 80s when they approved too many capital projects that were bottlenecked in the late 70s. Most were underbudgeted and the costs of maintenance were never properly included in the proposals. Then it was pension enrichment. Then it was the pressure to purchase the latest and greatest equipment much of which had questionable academic enrichment quality and increasingly shorter life spans .

Look at the bright side: they didn't ask for their own Fermi Reactor or Berkley Laser their their own Hadron Collider like Michigan State's proposal to update the National Superconducting Cyclotron Laboratory for a Billion over 10 years.

It's no different than Div I football. CT is not the largest state in the nation. Not even close. Huge Federal awards National laboratories, spreading costs among 10 million tax payers, UConn can't do that.

The genetics bet for CT is dicey. It's an area where advancements are 'less costly' but more highly regulated.

Rule of thumb: The 4 State Universities need to be run as great 5-year institutions concentrating on employable skills and put on tight budgets. They's why they were built. Quality Education for the common man. UConn is the flagship and operates under different rules as a wannabe Research U. The price there doubles every 12 years and CT wage growth is not even clost to keeping pace.

Whatever I hear medical costs are part of the reason I look at Uconn Health Center and the Business Schools and see the scam plain as day.

Medical Records? The industry is still whining about Electronic Medical Records. That stupid white form that everyone fills out as a starter? A team of Undergraduate computer students could write a program to replace it as part of their capstone project. It would take a Professor to tell them why they can't write it and why that kind of centralization would never be acceptable to the Medical Industry. It has everything to do with privacy and collusion and none of it has to do with patient privacy and patient collusion to deny transparency.

 

[upstater]

That's a 5% commission. Does that mean a professor who brings nothing to the table gets nothing?

Every major university has similar problems: A study at Penn found out the problem for them started in the early 80s when they approved too many capital projects that were bottlenecked in the late 70s. Most were underbudgeted and the costs of maintenance were never properly included in the proposals. Then it was pension enrichment. Then it was the pressure to purchase the latest and greatest equipment much of which had questionable academic enrichment quality and increasingly shorter life spans .

Look at the bright side: they didn't ask for their own Fermi Reactor or Berkley Laser their their own Hadron Collider like Michigan State's proposal to update the National Superconducting Cyclotron Laboratory for a Billion over 10 years.

It's no different than Div I football. CT is not the largest state in the nation. Not even close. Huge Federal awards National laboratories, spreading costs among 10 million tax payers, UConn can't do that.

The genetics bet for CT is dicey. It's an area where advancements are 'less costly' but more highly regulated.

Rule of thumb: The 4 State Universities need to be run as great 5-year institutions concentrating on employable skills and put on tight budgets. They's why they were built. Quality Education for the common man. UConn is the flagship and operates under different rules as a wannabe Research U. The price there doubles every 12 years and CT wage growth is not even clost to keeping pace.

Whatever I hear medical costs are part of the reason I look at Uconn Health Center and the Business Schools and see the scam plain as day.

Medical Records? The industry is still whining about Electronic Medical Records. That stupid white form that everyone fills out as a starter? A team of Undergraduate computer students could write a program to replace it as part of their capstone project. It would take a Professor to tell them why they can't write it and why that kind of centralization would never be acceptable to the Medical Industry. It has everything to do with privacy and collusion and none of it has to do with patient privacy and patient collusion to deny transparency.

Bottom line: costs aren't rising fast. Tuition is.

 

[Prezidint]

Well, there are a couple of posters on this thread who think that more money is needed. More in taxes. More from students. They're citing ambiguous studies from other schools.

Here're my proposals -

Cut professor pay. Most of the professors who are "research" professors suck in the class room anyway. I can count on two hands the number of very good teachers I had as professors over my multiple degrees at UConn. Most were so-so. Many were awful.

Cut programs. Get rid of gimmicky programs.

Cut enrollment. There is no need to have 20,000 plus undergrads. Half of them would be better off wasting their time and money on local branches or not going to college at all.

Get some goats. Stop paying to have the grass cut.

On a serious note, the problem with education is that it's a business. Instead of keeping the focus on making UConn a great school for local kids, the focus has changed to "making it a world class institution." As Pooh would say, Oh Bother!

Cut the enrollment in half. Then you'd have twice as much state money per student.

Cut out all the horse sports that lose money. This is a University. Not a playground. If people want to have a woman's horseshoe team, let the team members pay for it.

Get rid of all ancillary expenses. There are many. I'd love to be the guy in charge of cutting the budget. There's a huge amount of institutional waste that could be cut.

Stop all expansion/growth initiatives. Pick a size, and go with it. No need to be making the place bigger every year.

Student aide - kill all student aide - I took loans. So can everybody else. If you don't want to take loans, go work for a couple of years and save your money while you take classes part time.

Stop all bus services - it's a small campus. Walk.

Turn the heat down in all buildings to 60 degrees in the winter. Wear a sweater. Your grandmother did, and she lived long enough to squirt out your parent.

And so on.

There's a lot of cutting left to be done. Don't let the institutionalized people who think professors who are sh--tty teachers deserve 150 grand a year fool you. There's a huge amount of largesse in the system, and the voices that cite miscellaneous studies are just protecting their piece of the pie.

BTW - the thought that it takes 5 years to graduate because there's something wrong with the university is duck__CKING ASSININE. Sorry. It is.

The reason it takes 5 years to graduate is because the idiot chowder heads are too busy getting laid and drunk and playing video games to go to class.

Two of my kids, one still in school, are graduating in 3 years. It's easy. Get 12-15 credits in AP, take a couple of interterm courses, take 15-18 credits a couple of semesters, and save 1 year of costs.

I'm really quite worried that we've become such a ninny excuse making nation of pansies that there are some out there who believe the failure of kids to graduate college in 4 years is due to something other than a severe lack of discipline and ambition.

I'm bombed, so forgive any harsh words please.
ut I mean them all.

 

[upstater]

Well, there are a couple of posters on this thread who think that more money is needed. More in taxes. More from students. They're citing ambiguous studies from other schools.

First, I'm glad I read your whole post, so I'll respond in the spirit of your last line.

Here're my proposals -

Cut professor pay. Most of the professors who are "research" professors suck in the class room anyway. I can count on two hands the number of very good teachers I had as professors over my multiple degrees at UConn. Most were so-so. Many were awful.

Are you referring to just UConn's professor's pay, or all professor's pay? Because surely UConn would lose a lot of top professors. Did you read the part about research grants? If you lose the professors, you lose the research grants. Then what? Besides, they've gotten rid of tenure and high pay through the backdoor, by not hiring full-time faculty.

Cut programs. Get rid of gimmicky programs.

? Such as, the business school?

Cut enrollment. There is no need to have 20,000 plus undergrads. Half of them would be better off wasting their time and money on local branches or not going to college at all.

Private schools are now out of reach. You need more space at a place like UConn. Already, UConn is turning away a lot of talented kids. When did you graduate? Chances are, the kids going to UConn today are better students than when you were there.

Get some goats. Stop paying to have the grass cut.

On a serious note, the problem with education is that it's a business. Instead of keeping the focus on making UConn a great school for local kids, the focus has changed to "making it a world class institution." As Pooh would say, Oh Bother!

I agree with this in part, but you're only looking at half the equation. Many east coast publics are now getting big subsidies from foreign students which partially makes up for the shortfall from taxpayers. These schools have a great reputation. What you're counseling is that these schools lower standards, and if they do that, one big source of income (tuition above the cost of attendance for foreign students) would go by the wayside. It's a delicate balance. Plus, one could argue that tuition below $10k is not so onerous. You could go to a satellite school and live at home for a couple years. That would mean that you get out having paid say $36k in tuition and $24k in R&B (I would subtract $4k from R&B since you'd be eating at home and using utilities if you weren't living at school). So, $56k over 4 years. $22k in student loans leaves $34k. Pell grants, scholarships? Assuming no grants and scholarships, say your parents can afford to kick in $3k a year, or $12k total. That brings you to $22k. Summer job of $4k for 4 years is $16k, 10 hours a week over 4 years during school = $6k. There you go, everything paid for, $22k in debt. It's not the worst thing in the world.

Cut out all the horse sports that lose money. This is a University. Not a playground. If people want to have a woman's horseshoe team, let the team members pay for it.

It's federal law that women's scholarships have to match men's scholarships. So, what you're really saying is, get rid of men's soccer and such? You have to wonder if UConn could eventually join the ACC or any other conference with that policy.

Get rid of all ancillary expenses. There are many. I'd love to be the guy in charge of cutting the budget. There's a huge amount of institutional waste that could be cut.

Like what? Can you name them?

Stop all expansion/growth initiatives. Pick a size, and go with it. No need to be making the place bigger every year.

Student aide - kill all student aide - I took loans. So can everybody else. If you don't want to take loans, go work for a couple of years and save your money while you take classes part time.

Part-timers don't qualify for Stafford loans. So, you can't do the part-time thing and get loans. Scholarships are used to attract the best students.

Stop all bus services - it's a small campus. Walk.

Turn the heat down in all buildings to 60 degrees in the winter. Wear a sweater. Your grandmother did, and she lived long enough to squirt out your parent.

And so on.

There's a lot of cutting left to be done. Don't let the institutionalized people who think professors who are sh--tty teachers deserve 150 grand a year fool you. There's a huge amount of largesse in the system, and the voices that cite miscellaneous studies are just protecting their piece of the pie.

Not miscellaneous studies at all. At the very least, a lot more in depth than any of the guesswork you have offered.

BTW - the thought that it takes 5 years to graduate because there's something wrong with the university is duck__CKING ASSININE. Sorry. It is.

It's not. If you're part of a degree program with a requirement offered once every 2 years with a cap on the class, how do you graduate on time?

The reason it takes 5 years to graduate is because the idiot chowder heads are too busy getting laid and drunk and playing video games to go to class.

You are out of your depth on this. You don't know what it's like these days.

Two of my kids, one still in school, are graduating in 3 years. It's easy. Get 12-15 credits in AP, take a couple of interterm courses, take 15-18 credits a couple of semesters, and save 1 year of costs.

Great for your kids. Where did they go to school, what did they study?

I'm really quite worried that we've become such a ninny excuse making nation of pansies that there are some out there who believe the failure of kids to graduate college in 4 years is due to something other than a severe lack of discipline and ambition.

Blah blah blah

I'm bombed, so forgive any harsh words please.
ut I mean them all.

You really are out of touch with the reality of what even the best students go through these days.

 

[spoop]

Get rid of scholarships? There go all the smart students, might as well be WasteCanWestConn-Storrs.
12-15 credits of AP, simple huh? My school offered 3 AP classes total.
Interim courses and housing aren't free, they really add up. Especially if you rely on scholarships and grants, those probably won't help you in the winter/summer.
There's plenty of degree programs that are extremely difficult to cut a year out of. There's only so many BS classes required for engineering and lots of prereq requirements, things you can't take anywhere but Storrs and in the Spring/Fall.
Finally, the thought that it's impossible for students to take 5 years for a degree because of the University is asiten, that's one more than asinine.