OT: Red Sox Swept

Discussion in 'Pro Sports (baseball, etc)' started by jibsey, Oct 10, 2016.

  1. Stairmaster

    Stairmaster Stainmaster?

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    Your first paragraph 100% completely proves my point. 12 years later, you Yankees fans are still infuriated that the Red Sox completely neutered your team on the big stage. Generations of Yankees fans could always count on their team being able to snuff the lowly Red Sox out when it counted. It was almost a certainty in their minds But no, what the Red Sox did made the Yankees turn into the Cincinnati Reds for four games when the entire nation was watching. The team made Mariano Rivera, the single best closer in the history of the game, look like Jorge Julio. Most of you had never seen the Yankees this humiliated in your lifetimes. All you had to do was win one game. One game! But the Sox did it, and as a result, both the fanbase and the franchise are still feeling it after all these years. Because since 2004, the Yankees just haven't been the same Yankees -- sure, a WS in 2009, but all of those embarrassing exits in the playoffs? Getting swept by Detroit in the ALCS? Losing a one-game playoff against Houston? The Yankees are no longer anyone's big brother; they are not guaranteed to advance in the playoffs every time they're in anymore, and it's the Red Sox who showed the world that.
     
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  2. Mr. Conehead

    Mr. Conehead

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    Completely agree. 2017 should be an evaluation year for the Yankees. See which kids they should keep and identify what holes they need to fill. That was the format used that got the Yankees to the World Series between 1996 and 2000 as they developed guys like Jeter, Psoda, and Sandman and plugged in holes with O'Niel, Cone, and Martinez. Starting pitching I think will be one of them. There was talk that one big target for the Yanks in 2018 would be Jose Fernandez, damn :(
     
  3. ConnHuskBask

    ConnHuskBask Shut Em Down!

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    McCann is a 33 year old catcher who is barely a league average hitter who only earned 1.3 WAR (which severely over inflates defense and positional scarcity) due to the time he spent behind the plate. Putting McCann at DH nullifies any positive value he would have to the team. I agree, they won't bench him but I think they should look to move him for cash considerations and a couple mid level prospects.

    By WAR measures Big Papi was worth "only" 4.4 wins and Encarnacion was only slight behind at 3.9.

    The real stats to look at are wOBA and wRC+ where Edwin was .373 and 134 and McCann was .326 and 103. Huge difference.

    WAR isn't the end all be all and you just can't count up the games we finished out and get the delta from player in and player out.

    The fact remains that the Luxury tax will undoubtedly go up, Miller/Tex are off the books, next year CC/Arod are off the books and the only albatross contract left will be Ellsbury. That's a ton of money off the books and even with some players like Dellin and Didi arbitration eligible they still stand to have a significant decrease in payroll that should be invested back in the big league club.
     
  4. mauconnfan

    mauconnfan

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    Wow Stair, you're a lost soul to believe that. Guess you're one of those "baseball started in 2004 guys huh"?? Problem with you and Red Sox fans who just became anything close to significant (how does last place feel every couple of years huh?LOL) in 2004, you would prefer to forget how dominant the Yanks were for such a long time. I believe you need to do some reading, but you aren't alone the Nation knows little about baseball prior to 20034 that's been obvious. And the one's that do have takenbt he 5th - hilarious group of fans now, simply pure comedy! Enjoy your little millennium vacuum.

    Maybe there are young Yankee fans who feel that but most could give a rats a** I promise. I mean playoffs is what a fan wants, 162 games and competing is what a fan wants. Since the 1995 tell me how many times the Sox made the playoffs, were a player for the regular season and how many times they finished last?

    You wish you were us
     
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  5. Mr. Conehead

    Mr. Conehead

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    I am torn about Ortiz. He is a great competitor and teammate by all account and great in the clutch, a 2000's version of Reggie Jackson. That said, I am concerned that he 'may' have used PED and as a Yankees fan, I am not going to throw stones in a glass house; but, I wish all of these players just admit it, take the punishment and move one, i.e. be a McGuire and not a Bonds or A-Rod. My other grip on Ortiz is that from time to time, especially a few year back when his numbers were way down, it felt like he thought he was bigger than the game itself. Hate that. A-Rod did the same thing and I felt they same way about him.

    As for Pedroia, I like him. He's like a spark plug that goes all out every game. I think his attitude Sunday night had more to do with frustration at the Red Sox overall position more than anything else. The local press especially expected a World Series title this year, especially the ego issue with the Sox's former GM driving the Cubs in that direction, and seemed to be blind to the fact that to win it, a team needs 2 top-notch, proven shut-down playoff pitchers (think Schilling, Clemens, Pettitte, Cone, etc.) and the Red Sox do not have that.
     
  6. 7774

    7774

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    So. Much. Syracuse.
     
  7. Stairmaster

    Stairmaster Stainmaster?

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    I know exactly how dominant the Yankees were. I was raised by two people who had been Yankees fans since the 1950s. I know all about the Yankees' tradition and legacy through the 20th century and up to 2004 - I also know that Papi and the Sox took a steaming dump on that legacy and ruined a 30+/50+/70+ year stretch of pure playoff dominance, which is why older fans like yourself hate Ortiz. What the Yankees went through in 2004 was completely unprecedented throughout their history. Every time they played the Red Sox in a postseason situation, they automatically dispatched with them, whether it was 1978 or 1999. You could've always counted on them being able to push the Sox down. But 2004 changed that and showed that going forward, the Yankees franchise would not be the same.
     
  8. mauconnfan

    mauconnfan

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    You're too worked up on ONE year dude. Relax no one took a steaming dump on any legacy this is all in your mind. You guys still think about Bucky Dent and Aaron Boone? I mean geez Stair you're whacked if you think any one year ruined our lives. There was no legacy! Older fans hate Papi because he's not a baseball player not because he had a few big hits against the Yanks. Doesn't run out ground balls, doesn't play first base even when asked and quite honestly is a selfish guy. Hell was he the only red Sox player who had big hits, quick jerking the guy off. Petey, Youk, The Schill and others were part of your 2004 comeback as well as a couple breaks which went your way, it was in the books already good for you, happy for you. It's over, we have moved on need to rebuild again and will. Try not to make the playoffs then come in last, not a good pattern. Playoffs like 18 of 21 years is much more fun I promise - try it. The sweep hurts huh I can feel it in your frustration. Love it

    Oh yeah we will never be the same? LOL at least we do have something to BE right?;)
     
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  9. Mr. Conehead

    Mr. Conehead

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    Ah, baseball, like other sports is cyclical. Yes, the Sox beat them in '04 and it was painful; but, it little do with the success and failure of the Yankees over time. The only result has been an increase in the ego of Red Sox fans and their belief that the universe revolves around them. The Yanks with Mattingly, Guidry, and Righetti couldn't really beat anyone in the 80's. They kept trying to buy wins with 40 year old free agents like Don Baylor. When the Sox lost to the Mets in '86, the Yanks finished 5 1/2 games behind the Sox and had nothing do with that. Eventually, the Yanks got wise and focused on development that led to a heck of a stretch between 1996 and 2003 where the Yanks went to 6 World Series in 8 years, winning it 4 times. They then lost their way (again) and tried buying the Series, which they got in '09; but, not much else. Now, they are focused back on development and things are looking up. The Sox have gone through and will go through the samething themselves again. That's sports.
     
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  10. superjohn

    superjohn

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    Yup, it was losing in 2004 that is the reason the Yankees have only won one World Series since. It has nothing to do with horrible contracts and a team that wasn't built for playoff success. Stairmaster this cute stuff from you.
     
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  11. ConnHuskBask

    ConnHuskBask Shut Em Down!

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    Lol @Stairmaster

    I don't like Papi because he unequivocally tested positive for PEDs and the fact that Sox fans defend him to the death over that fact.

    The substance wasn't banned at the time and the list was supposed to be anonymous but it came out and he was on it.

    Do I really care that he was PED guy? No, not really given the era, but I just think it's comical that Sox fans completely disregard those facts.

    Also, anyone who watched the Yankee Soxs games of the early to mid 2000s knew how close those teams were so it was not that shocking that after winning 3 straight they could lose 4. That's not meant to downplay it, it was terrible, but somehow Sox fans think 1 year or even 3 years erases modern history and counts more than 96, 98, 99, 00 and 09.
     
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  12. mauconnfan

    mauconnfan

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    Not sure why we needed this, no one questioned him? WAR and worth are laughable though. Really? We can figure his worth because of WAR? What have we become as baseball fans. He wasn't worth 41.9 this year
     
  13. Deadrody

    Deadrody

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    I'm fully in favor of trading both McCann and Gardner, but until they do, they have slots in the lineup. The fact of life that means the Yankees are going to continue trotting out slow, overpaid veterans even if they are barely league average or maybe a bit better doesn't change until that player is no longer on the roster.

    I don't PREFER to have McCann in the lineup, but so long as he's on the roster, he's going to play.

    I'm curious which Kevin you are referring to. They definitely have options behind McCann that don't require signing Encarnacion or any other DH. And with as bad as the pitching projects to be next year, I doubt very seriously that there is any obtainable bat that could impact the team's overall trajectory in 2017. They managed to stay within striking distance of the playoffs with the roster they had in 2016. I say keep that strategy at least for 2017 and find out for real what you have in guys like Judge, Bird, Austin, Mason Williams, and more.
     
  14. Deadrody

    Deadrody

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    Indeed. And WHEN those guys are all off the books, then it's time to spend free agent money. Take a look at the top comps for Encarnacion on B-R. All but one were out of the game by age 36. I think he's a very solid bat, but there will be better options in a year or two when it makes sense to spend that money.
     
  15. UConnStats

    UConnStats

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    Someone had insinuated he's being overpaid.

    Most players have up years and down years, and fangraphs' $WAR is based off of a league-wide scale of $/production. So yes, Pedroia was worth 41.9 relative to other players production and salary. It doesn't mean he should/will get paid that, it just means he's bring excess value to his team.

    If you think that's crazy, look at what it claims Trout has been worth since he became a full time MLB player (far right column).
    IMG_7901.PNG
     
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  16. Deadrody

    Deadrody

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    Dude, you're grade A, straight up delusional. I'll quote his first paragraph for you:

    Where in the hell do you extract ANYTHING about 2004 there ? LOL!!?! Pretty clear that there is at least one person that is obsessed with 2004, but it's not a Yankees fan. I mean, do you really think there is a Yankees fan alive that loses sleep over the fact that Mariano Rivera blew a possible clinching game in that series ? By all means, go review Mo's postseason stats. Maybe you missed it, but Mo also blew the save and took the loss in game 7 against Arizona. Guess what ? We all survived and got over it.

    The really funny thing is you seem to have no idea that the Yankees flat out STUNK for years before they won in 1996. Does that somehow detract from their previous success ? Or since ? Sorry, it doesn't. Every year stands on its own and on bulk, those years all add up to something far more significant for the Yankees than the Sox. You want to celebrate a specific time period you think the Sox were better ? Good for you. Yankee fans have a long list of similarly sized time periods to choose from when the Yankees were significantly better, including one very recent time period.
     
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  17. Deadrody

    Deadrody

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    How to say this... What you are describing is why 2004 is unique and significant for SOX FANS. And a description of why Yankee fans long since moved on. The 2004 season may have changed things for the Red Sox, but not for the Yankees, nor their fans. You also seem to be confused that the Yankees winning between 1996 and 2003 was life as usual. It wasn't. The Yankees were average - at best - overall for the previous 19 years since they won their previous world series. Not sure you are aware of the world class clubhouse culture of winning under Stump Merrill, circa 1990. Dope.
     
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  18. mauconnfan

    mauconnfan

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    Wow pretty idiotic numbers for sure. Oh well, that's why they're number geeks. No sense in all reality.
     
  19. jayfromfla

    jayfromfla

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    I'm a fan of two mlb teams. The cardinals and whoever is playing the red sux. Both my teams are out of the playoffs
     
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  20. intlzncster

    intlzncster i fart in your general direction

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    I think you are talking about Rusney Castillo (Cuban). Outfielder. Lot's of money, looks to be pretty much AAA.

    The second baseman they signed is Yoan Moncada (Cuban). Tons of potential. Called up way too fast this year though. He's only been playing pro ball for a year now.

    The whole team embarrassed themselves the entire series. That was probably frustration boiling over, which happens. Especially for a fiery guy like Pedroia.

    They showed who they were this year. A young team with potential that needs more seasoning, and a few more arms in the rotation.
     
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  21. mauconnfan

    mauconnfan

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  22. Waquoit

    Waquoit

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    I'm calling BS. The Sox "downfall" was the last week not month of the season. Before that they went 17-5, 11 in a row. But you would know that if you actually followed the game.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
  23. Obrero

    Obrero

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    Hahahahahaha! 12 years later?? Are you 16 years old? Do you have any recollection of who the Yankees were twelve years ago?

    Twelve years ago, the Yankees had been to six out of the past eight world series, and won four of them. They were in the middle of a stretch of excellence which was and remains absolutely foreign to the Red Sox, namely, they were making it to the postseason in 18 out of twenty years! In fact, the championship in 2009, which apparently carries no value in Red Sox fan eyes, is unique in baseball history , because it was the only Yankee ring that was won alone, ie, not as part of a multiple-World Series Yankee dynasty. Only in the mind of a Red Sox fan can that kind of success be dismissed by 2004. Neutered?? What a joke. Only the ignorance and arrogance that comes from winning something after 86 years of ineptitude can produce the kind of s**t you're shoveling.

    Now it's 2016, and the Yankees aren't even in the playoffs, but Red Sox fans are still comparing their team to the Yankees, and after getting swept, no less!! Here's the only comparison you should be making at this moment, pal: The Red Sox and the Yankees are tied in post season wins in 2016.

    But please, pardon me, I interrupted you... Tell me again, who's inside of who's head?
     
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  24. mauconnfan

    mauconnfan

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    Yep lost 8 of their last 9. Not a month but still a disastrous finish. That 11 in a row though almost got them home for the first 2 which would have been big. But losing 5 of the last 6 was a killer.

    Oh well still a pretty damn good year for a baseball fan
     
  25. Waquoit

    Waquoit

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    I still have a rooting interest, though. Love to see Tito to stick it to Theo.