OT: Red Sox Swept

[mauconnfan]

Really funny seeing fans of other teams react with more emotion and fervor when the Red Sox and Ortiz lose than they do when anything happens to their own teams. It must be weird having a franchise and player you don't even root for occupy so much space in your head.

Our own team already lost, that's the only baseball left. You guys told us how great they were expectations were high Stair. Sorry they fell short.

 

[mauconnfan]

Ortiz is a great dude off the field. I'm not sure who told you otherwise.

Crack you know this how? Is this a Chief thing or are you going by the media? Just curious.

 

[mauconnfan]

So... Gardner was actually the team's second most valuable (most valuable non-pitcher) player this season. I suppose that says more about the team's construction than anything else. Sanchez came close to passing him in 2 months, tho.

Tanaka isn't a #1 ? He's a legitimate Cy Young contender. Behind only Kluber, Verlander, and Sale. I'll take it.

If they sign anyone this winter, it will be Chapman. They'll roll the dice with the offense as is - Sanchez, McCann, Headley, Gregorious, Castro, Bird, Austin, Hicks, Gardner, Ellsbury, and Judge. What they will need to do is acquire pitching somehow, some way. Right now they have CC, Tanaka, and Pineda, and all 3 of them have injury risks. They may try and count on Warren, Mitchell, Cessa, and Green, but I doubt it.

Gardner has to go because I think there is some team out there thinking he's a good baseball player and we know otherwise. Ellsbury will be tougher to rid ourselves of but Mason Williams can probably take one of their spots and run more. Wanted to get these guys in the lineup to create havoc and what do you get? Two .260 hitters who don't run anymore, it's time. Pitching is a must, a #1 and a solid 3,4 or 5 too. Sick of waiting for Pineida to be anything more than he is. Over 200 K's and he has created the most swings and misses yet what's his ERA? See ya.....lots to do will be interesting.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Ortiz is a great dude off the field. I'm not sure who told you otherwise.

There must be a reason so many players around the league love and gravitate to him. John, you haven't produced one shred of evidence of him being the "phony" you state he is in nearly every post you make. Funny that Superjohn says the Sox will always be second rate to the Yankees, yet he can't keep his mouth shut during any Sox thread, and often is the most prolific poster in them. I'm sure you're one of those guys that will mention 27 rings to combat any valid argument that the Sox are the better franchise the past 12 years. Like Mau, you're one of the best posters when it comes to basketball but insufferable with regard to baseball.

 

[zyron]

I'm sure you're one of those guys that will mention 27 rings to combat any valid argument that the Sox are the better franchise the past 12 years.

I love how you pick 12 years. Well I could say the Yankees are the better franchise over the last 7 years. They each have 1 championship and the Red Sox came in last 3 times to the Yanks none. Or I could pick the past 20 years and it would be a landslide for the Yankees. It is easy to cherry pick.

 

[tentoes4rings]

I love how you pick 12 years. Well I could say the Yankees are the better franchise over the last 7 years. They each have 1 championship and the Red Sox came in last 3 times to the Yanks none. Or I could pick the past 20 years and it would be a landslide for the Yankees. It is easy to cherry pick.

It's a fair point for sure but to infer the Yankees are still the clearly superior franchise is misleading I think. The Sox have had 3 last place finishes recently but also 3 World Series titles. Our basketball team has had its fair share of disappointing seasons the past 17 years but the 4 rings still position us as a premier program. I think both teams have very bright futures and that the next 5- 10 years could be one of the best periods in the rivalry's history.

 

[ihatepants]

 

[superjohn]

There must be a reason so many players around the league love and gravitate to him. John, you haven't produced one shred of evidence of him being the "phony" you state he is in nearly every post you make. Funny that Superjohn says the Sox will always be second rate to the Yankees, yet he can't keep his mouth shut during any Sox thread, and often is the most prolific poster in them. I'm sure you're one of those guys that will mention 27 rings to combat any valid argument that the Sox are the better franchise the past 12 years. Like Mau, you're one of the best posters when it comes to basketball but insufferable with regard to baseball.

Sox have been better the last decade, the Yankees have been way better the nine decades before. The Red Sox would need another 100 years to have a chance of being as good or passing the Yankees by as a franchise. . . . . . Why do Red Sox fans care so much that I think Ortiz is a phony? I'm not some outlier, you leave "The pink hat nation" bubble and a lot of people think he's a huge phony.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

The Sox and Yankees both have a lot of young talent coming up through the system, particularly the Sox where a lot of it has already arrived.

I'm a Yankees fan and I support the youth movement but I also think that Chapman is a must have this offseason and I'd also like to give Edwin Encarancion a look to be the DH. Everyone always has a fascination with keeping the DH open for resting players but the bottom line is you give Edwin 4 years and $100M youre getting a top 20 bat in the league thru his age 37 season before the real decline would start.

P.S. two other things. Castro is not a good hitter, don't let the home runs fool you, he's one of the most undisciplined hitters I've ever seen and the second point is that Gardy is a fine player to have, the issue is they went and signed another guy for damn near twice as much money who's slightly worse than him. Gardy is far from a big problem on this roster.

 

[TitleTown]

The Sox and Yankees both have a lot of young talent coming up through the system, particularly the Sox where a lot of it has already arrived.

I'm a Yankees fan and I support the youth movement but I also think that Chapman is a must have this offseason and I'd also like to give Edwin Encarancion a look to be the DH. Everyone always has a fascination with keeping the DH open for resting players but the bottom line is you give Edwin 4 years and $100M youre getting a top 20 bat in the league thru his age 37 season before the real decline would start.

P.S. two other things. Castro is not a good hitter, don't let the home runs fool you, he's one of the most undisciplined hitters I've ever seen and the second point is that Gardy is a fine player to have, the issue is they went and signed another guy for damn near twice as much money who's slightly worse than him. Gardy is far from a big problem on this roster.

I think Encarnacion is going to sign with Boston this offseason.

 

[intlzncster]

They do have a real chubby 3rd baseman and a mighty mouse 2nd baseman they spent some cash on too which won't add up all that well. ARod doesn't count anyway, they wanted him too and would've had the same situation. Yanks have had plenty of crappy contracts besides him anyway, now they have some. We have always heard about them, tough when the shoes on the other foot.

He's not chubby, he's fat. Really fat.

What's wrong with Pedroia? Not many better second basemen out there. BA .318 OPS .825 ain't nothing to sniff at. 15 Hr and 74RBI hitting near the top of the lineup. Plays top shelf D too.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Crack you know this how? Is this a Chief thing or are you going by the media? Just curious.

We're not friends or anything like that but I have a friend from college who deals with the Sox in a business capacity pretty regularly and I've quasi-socialized with him a couple times. Always seemed like a cool guy, very genuine, and that's the feedback I get from people who deal with him regularly.

I'm disappointed that they didn't show up in the post-season but I'm not terribly surprised given the way they shut it down after they clinched. Didn't expect Pretty Ricky to pitch BP in game one, had no faith in Price, and expected Claydro not to get it done. The real surprise for me was how anemic the offense looked. Didn't see a World Series in the cards for this team but I also did not expect a Cleveland sweep.

Life goes on. I still hate the Price deal but not much you can do about it. On to football and hoop.

 

[The Viking]

We're not friends or anything like that but I have a friend from college who deals with the Sox in a business capacity pretty regularly and I've quasi-socialized with him a couple times. Always seemed like a cool guy, very genuine, and that's the feedback I get from people who deal with him regularly.

I'm disappointed that they didn't show up in the post-season but I'm not terribly surprised given the way they shut it down after they clinched. Didn't expect Pretty Ricky to pitch BP in game one, had no faith in Price, and expected Claydro not to get it done. The real surprise for me was how anemic the offense looked. Didn't see a World Series in the cards for this team but I also did not expect a Cleveland sweep.

Life goes on. I still hate the Price deal but not much you can do about it. On to football and hoop.

Yankees fans are always going to think Ortiz is scum, not much you can do.

Agree with your Sox observations, the Porcello performance in game 1 was a killer, with Kluber on the hill in game 2. You had to win game 1 against Bauer.

As for Price, I hate the size of the deal too, but it was a chance to bring in a very good pitcher with AL East experience without having to give up draft picks or prospects. He had some clunkers this year but also had very good stretches. Game 2 he sucked and that's how he'll be remembered.

Should be an interesting offseason

 

[zyron]

I'm a Yankees fan and I support the youth movement but I also think that Chapman is a must have this offseason and I'd also like to give Edwin Encarancion a look to be the DH. Everyone always has a fascination with keeping the DH open for resting players but the bottom line is you give Edwin 4 years and $100M youre getting a top 20 bat in the league thru his age 37 season before the real decline would start.

Don't want at all. Sign no players like him this offseason. I would like Chapman but lets not deal for a player like Edwin.

 

[Deadrody]

I still think Severino will figure it out. Will just turn 23 next year.

I'd also like to give Edwin Encarancion a look to be the DH. Everyone always has a fascination with keeping the DH open for resting players but the bottom line is you give Edwin 4 years and $100M youre getting a top 20 bat in the league thru his age 37 season before the real decline would start.

I think there's a good shot Severino figures it out, but hopefully they learned their lesson in counting on a rookie pitcher out of spring training to be a major league starter .

They're not signing Encarnacion. And you can virtually guarantee he'll have multiple suitors so that there's no way his deal only runs through his age 37 season. At least 38, maybe 39. That's what you have to do to get a guy like him. You have to pay for the decline years to get the good ones up front. No thanks. Besides, the Yankees allegedly have a plan to get under the luxury tax threshold so they have money for 2018. Next year's team will be average, at best. No point in blowing money on a guy that won't be the difference between making the playoffs or staying home AND blowing part of the plan to get under the luxury tax for an aging bat that will be hitting his decline years just when the team is getting good.

When 2018 rolls around and you still need a DH, THEN you go sign one. Not before. Besides which, unless you trade McCann, with Sanchez at Catcher, he's your DH anyhow.

 

[mauconnfan]

It's a fair point for sure but to infer the Yankees are still the clearly superior franchise is misleading I think. The Sox have had 3 last place finishes recently but also 3 World Series titles. Our basketball team has had its fair share of disappointing seasons the past 17 years but the 4 rings still position us as a premier program. I think both teams have very bright futures and that the next 5- 10 years could be one of the best periods in the rivalry's history.

Hilarious point of view but really not your fault, it's the Nations!

That's all you got?

 

[mauconnfan]

He's not chubby, he's fat. Really fat.

What's wrong with Pedroia? Not many better second basemen out there. BA .318 OPS .825 ain't nothing to sniff at. 15 Hr and 74RBI hitting near the top of the lineup. Plays top shelf D too.

Not talking Pedey, the Cuban/DR dude? You spent some cash, not large but decent, for a AAA player.

And while we're talking about Pedey yeah he's good but the guy totally embarrassed himself on 2 strike 3's called by arguing them and looking like a little baby. Those weren't even close and replay showed he was showing up the umpire to save his own face. Surprised at him, should have been tossed at least once for sure, umps.

 

[mauconnfan]

Don't want at all. Sign no players like him this offseason. I would like Chapman but lets not deal for a player like Edwin.

Agree, plus another cheater not needed they scare me in case MLB figures it out. Stay YOUNG, lose for a while and compete. All will be fine.

 

[mauconnfan]

Yankees fans are always going to think Ortiz is scum, not much you can do.

Agree with your Sox observations, the Porcello performance in game 1 was a killer, with Kluber on the hill in game 2. You had to win game 1 against Bauer.

As for Price, I hate the size of the deal too, but it was a chance to bring in a very good pitcher with AL East experience without having to give up draft picks or prospects. He had some clunkers this year but also had very good stretches. Game 2 he sucked and that's how he'll be remembered.

Should be an interesting offseason

It's not just Yankee fans guys, but you have your own little world. Just like saying other players gravitate to him - funny, the DR players do for sure the others just put up with him. Again, you will think what you want because he's yours, but no one else gave a crap about his last game I promise but you and the media.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I think you guys are vastly underrating Encarancion and writing off the Yanks ability to contend for the postseason in 2017. All he has to do is hit and as a primary DH I don't see him slowing down anytime soon.

Edwin doesn't block any prospects, like Bird, Judge, Frazier and more down the line Torres and Mateo and he improves a pretty mediocre offense significantly. McCann is a decent hitting catcher, but as a DH? No way.

And lastly regarding the luxury tax. I can't believe how the Yankees have done such a great job in spinning this narrative that they can't afford to pay the luxury tax and for years have convinced the fans that plan $189M (or whatever it is up to now) is acceptable.

You can have a youth movement with Sanchez, Didi and the guys I mentoned above but that doesn't mean you can't throw your financial weight around and sign two players that a) don't impede any guys b) fill positions of need.

 

[Deadrody]

I think you guys are vastly underrating Encarancion and writing off the Yanks ability to contend for the postseason in 2017. All he has to do is hit and as a primary DH I don't see him slowing down anytime soon.

Edwin doesn't block any prospects, like Bird, Judge, Frazier and more down the line Torres and Mateo and he improves a pretty mediocre offense significantly. McCann is a decent hitting catcher, but as a DH? No way.

And lastly regarding the luxury tax. I can't believe how the Yankees have done such a great job in spinning this narrative that they can't afford to pay the luxury tax and for years have convinced the fans that plan $189M (or whatever it is up to now) is acceptable.

You can have a youth movement with Sanchez, Didi and the guys I mentoned above but that doesn't mean you can't throw your financial weight around and sign two players that a) don't impede any guys b) fill positions of need.

McCann is an above average major league hitter. Fact. He put up a wRC+ of 103 last year, was worth 1.3 WAR, and is owed $17M next year. They're not going to sit a guy like that. If he isn't traded, he's the DH. There's really nothing more to say about that. A-rod, for instance, was WELL below league average and they still waited until late August to move on from him. Encarnacion was worth 3.9 WAR. The difference between he and McCann wouldn't have been enough to get them to the playoffs in 2016. There's no reason to believe he'll be a difference maker in 2017.

The luxury tax thing isn't about being able to "afford" it. The penalties accelerate the longer they're over the limit. They want to reset that so they aren't penalized as much. Beyond which, with the CBA expiring, the limit is expected to go up. So they reset and have the ability to flex their financial muscle more than they are now, coincident with the exceptional free agent class in 2018. They can sign Chapman this year and still get under the current limit after 2017, but until they know what the new limit will be, signing a guy like Encarnacion would push them back over the limit. For 2015 alone, that was $26 million they paid to the league that they otherwise could be spending on the roster, scouting, or the minor league affiliates. Any use of that money that isn't writing a check to MLB is a positive one.

 

[mauconnfan]

McCann is an above average major league hitter. Fact. He put up a wRC+ of 103 last year, was worth 1.3 WAR, and is owed $17M next year. They're not going to sit a guy like that. If he isn't traded, he's the DH. There's really nothing more to say about that. A-rod, for instance, was WELL below league average and they still waited until late August to move on from him. Encarnacion was worth 3.9 WAR. The difference between he and McCann wouldn't have been enough to get them to the playoffs in 2016. There's no reason to believe he'll be a difference maker in 2017.

The luxury tax thing isn't about being able to "afford" it. The penalties accelerate the longer they're over the limit. They want to reset that so they aren't penalized as much. Beyond which, with the CBA expiring, the limit is expected to go up. So they reset and have the ability to flex their financial muscle more than they are now, coincident with the exceptional free agent class in 2018. They can sign Chapman this year and still get under the current limit after 2017, but until they know what the new limit will be, signing a guy like Encarnacion would push them back over the limit. For 2015 alone, that was $26 million they paid to the league that they otherwise could be spending on the roster, scouting, or the minor league affiliates. Any use of that money that isn't writing a check to MLB is a positive one.

Sorry Dead but McCann is putrid, strikes out too much and won't hit the ball the other way. He is slow as hell and even when on base makes them play base to base. His catching has been lackluster the last 2 years and they have a younger back up who fits the road moving forward. Kevin has improved enough not to hurt and can hit a bit for average and run a little. If they can move NcCann for anything and eat little $$$$ I would jump on it. Agree with you on Encarnarcion I would throw the dollars at Chapman.

 

[UConnStats]

He's not chubby, he's fat. Really fat.

What's wrong with Pedroia? Not many better second basemen out there. BA .318 OPS .825 ain't nothing to sniff at. 15 Hr and 74RBI hitting near the top of the lineup. Plays top shelf D too.

Highest fielding percentage of all-time at 2B with the DRS and UZR to match. Pedroia will be a HOF if he stays healthy.

Over his last 4 years, WAR puts his worth at:
2013: $38.3M
2014: $31.3M
2015: $20.2M (missed significant time)
2016: $41.9M

His contract is a bargain. People love to complain about problems that don't even exist, when the reality is that great teams exit early practically every single year. That's life.

 

[Obrero]

Really funny seeing fans of other teams react with more emotion and fervor when the Red Sox and Ortiz lose than they do when anything happens to their own teams. It must be weird having a franchise and player you don't even root for occupy so much space in your head.

This is comical. Is that really the myth you're consoling yourself with, after that pathetic display from your team and that pitiful exit by your favorite player? I can send you some prozac if that doesn't work.

And, since you brought up the subject: Has there ever, in the history of sports, been a fanbase more singularly obsessed with an opposing player as Red Sox fans have been with Alex Rodriguez for the past ten years? Can you say "Pot, meet Kettle"? Of course, now that they've both retired at the same time, you'll all have to spend the next five years twisting your tongues in knots trying to explain why Arod should not be in the Hall of Fame but Big Popup should. That, my friend, is what should be "really funny".