OT: Red Sox Swept

Discussion in 'Pro Sports (baseball, etc)' started by jibsey, Oct 10, 2016.

  1. intlzncster

    intlzncster i fart in your general direction

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    He's not chubby, he's fat. Really fat.

    What's wrong with Pedroia? Not many better second basemen out there. BA .318 OPS .825 ain't nothing to sniff at. 15 Hr and 74RBI hitting near the top of the lineup. Plays top shelf D too.
     
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  2. BigErnMcCracken

    BigErnMcCracken

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    We're not friends or anything like that but I have a friend from college who deals with the Sox in a business capacity pretty regularly and I've quasi-socialized with him a couple times. Always seemed like a cool guy, very genuine, and that's the feedback I get from people who deal with him regularly.

    I'm disappointed that they didn't show up in the post-season but I'm not terribly surprised given the way they shut it down after they clinched. Didn't expect Pretty Ricky to pitch BP in game one, had no faith in Price, and expected Claydro not to get it done. The real surprise for me was how anemic the offense looked. Didn't see a World Series in the cards for this team but I also did not expect a Cleveland sweep.

    Life goes on. I still hate the Price deal but not much you can do about it. On to football and hoop.
     
  3. The Viking

    The Viking

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    Yankees fans are always going to think Ortiz is scum, not much you can do.

    Agree with your Sox observations, the Porcello performance in game 1 was a killer, with Kluber on the hill in game 2. You had to win game 1 against Bauer.

    As for Price, I hate the size of the deal too, but it was a chance to bring in a very good pitcher with AL East experience without having to give up draft picks or prospects. He had some clunkers this year but also had very good stretches. Game 2 he sucked and that's how he'll be remembered.

    Should be an interesting offseason
     
  4. zyron

    zyron

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    Don't want at all. Sign no players like him this offseason. I would like Chapman but lets not deal for a player like Edwin.
     
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  5. Deadrody

    Deadrody

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    I think there's a good shot Severino figures it out, but hopefully they learned their lesson in counting on a rookie pitcher out of spring training to be a major league starter .

    They're not signing Encarnacion. And you can virtually guarantee he'll have multiple suitors so that there's no way his deal only runs through his age 37 season. At least 38, maybe 39. That's what you have to do to get a guy like him. You have to pay for the decline years to get the good ones up front. No thanks. Besides, the Yankees allegedly have a plan to get under the luxury tax threshold so they have money for 2018. Next year's team will be average, at best. No point in blowing money on a guy that won't be the difference between making the playoffs or staying home AND blowing part of the plan to get under the luxury tax for an aging bat that will be hitting his decline years just when the team is getting good.

    When 2018 rolls around and you still need a DH, THEN you go sign one. Not before. Besides which, unless you trade McCann, with Sanchez at Catcher, he's your DH anyhow.
     
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  6. mauconnfan

    mauconnfan

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    Hilarious point of view but really not your fault, it's the Nations!:eek:

    That's all you got?
     
  7. mauconnfan

    mauconnfan

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    Not talking Pedey, the Cuban/DR dude? You spent some cash, not large but decent, for a AAA player.

    And while we're talking about Pedey yeah he's good but the guy totally embarrassed himself on 2 strike 3's called by arguing them and looking like a little baby. Those weren't even close and replay showed he was showing up the umpire to save his own face. Surprised at him, should have been tossed at least once for sure, umps.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2016
  8. mauconnfan

    mauconnfan

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    Agree, plus another cheater not needed they scare me in case MLB figures it out. Stay YOUNG, lose for a while and compete. All will be fine.
     
  9. DaveHuskiesFan

    DaveHuskiesFan

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    Fun Story about David Ortiz:

    My sister taught in Weston, Mass and David Ortiz's daughter was in her first grade class. So during the beginning of the year when parents have to fill out the "Emergency Contact Form", David Ortiz's filled his out as follows:

    Name: David Ortiz
    Employer: Boston Red Sox
    Position with employer: DH
     
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  10. mauconnfan

    mauconnfan

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    It's not just Yankee fans guys, but you have your own little world. Just like saying other players gravitate to him - funny, the DR players do for sure the others just put up with him. Again, you will think what you want because he's yours, but no one else gave a crap about his last game I promise but you and the media.
     
  11. ConnHuskBask

    ConnHuskBask Shut Em Down!

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    I think you guys are vastly underrating Encarancion and writing off the Yanks ability to contend for the postseason in 2017. All he has to do is hit and as a primary DH I don't see him slowing down anytime soon.

    Edwin doesn't block any prospects, like Bird, Judge, Frazier and more down the line Torres and Mateo and he improves a pretty mediocre offense significantly. McCann is a decent hitting catcher, but as a DH? No way.

    And lastly regarding the luxury tax. I can't believe how the Yankees have done such a great job in spinning this narrative that they can't afford to pay the luxury tax and for years have convinced the fans that plan $189M (or whatever it is up to now) is acceptable.

    You can have a youth movement with Sanchez, Didi and the guys I mentoned above but that doesn't mean you can't throw your financial weight around and sign two players that a) don't impede any guys b) fill positions of need.
     
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  12. Deadrody

    Deadrody

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    McCann is an above average major league hitter. Fact. He put up a wRC+ of 103 last year, was worth 1.3 WAR, and is owed $17M next year. They're not going to sit a guy like that. If he isn't traded, he's the DH. There's really nothing more to say about that. A-rod, for instance, was WELL below league average and they still waited until late August to move on from him. Encarnacion was worth 3.9 WAR. The difference between he and McCann wouldn't have been enough to get them to the playoffs in 2016. There's no reason to believe he'll be a difference maker in 2017.

    The luxury tax thing isn't about being able to "afford" it. The penalties accelerate the longer they're over the limit. They want to reset that so they aren't penalized as much. Beyond which, with the CBA expiring, the limit is expected to go up. So they reset and have the ability to flex their financial muscle more than they are now, coincident with the exceptional free agent class in 2018. They can sign Chapman this year and still get under the current limit after 2017, but until they know what the new limit will be, signing a guy like Encarnacion would push them back over the limit. For 2015 alone, that was $26 million they paid to the league that they otherwise could be spending on the roster, scouting, or the minor league affiliates. Any use of that money that isn't writing a check to MLB is a positive one.
     
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  13. mauconnfan

    mauconnfan

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    Sorry Dead but McCann is putrid, strikes out too much and won't hit the ball the other way. He is slow as hell and even when on base makes them play base to base. His catching has been lackluster the last 2 years and they have a younger back up who fits the road moving forward. Kevin has improved enough not to hurt and can hit a bit for average and run a little. If they can move NcCann for anything and eat little $$$$ I would jump on it. Agree with you on Encarnarcion I would throw the dollars at Chapman.
     
  14. UConnStats

    UConnStats

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    Highest fielding percentage of all-time at 2B with the DRS and UZR to match. Pedroia will be a HOF if he stays healthy.

    Over his last 4 years, WAR puts his worth at:
    2013: $38.3M
    2014: $31.3M
    2015: $20.2M (missed significant time)
    2016: $41.9M

    His contract is a bargain. People love to complain about problems that don't even exist, when the reality is that great teams exit early practically every single year. That's life.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
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  15. Obrero

    Obrero

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    This is comical. Is that really the myth you're consoling yourself with, after that pathetic display from your team and that pitiful exit by your favorite player? I can send you some prozac if that doesn't work.

    And, since you brought up the subject: Has there ever, in the history of sports, been a fanbase more singularly obsessed with an opposing player as Red Sox fans have been with Alex Rodriguez for the past ten years? Can you say "Pot, meet Kettle"? Of course, now that they've both retired at the same time, you'll all have to spend the next five years twisting your tongues in knots trying to explain why Arod should not be in the Hall of Fame but Big Popup should. That, my friend, is what should be "really funny".
     
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  16. Stairmaster

    Stairmaster Stainmaster?

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    Your first paragraph 100% completely proves my point. 12 years later, you Yankees fans are still infuriated that the Red Sox completely neutered your team on the big stage. Generations of Yankees fans could always count on their team being able to snuff the lowly Red Sox out when it counted. It was almost a certainty in their minds But no, what the Red Sox did made the Yankees turn into the Cincinnati Reds for four games when the entire nation was watching. The team made Mariano Rivera, the single best closer in the history of the game, look like Jorge Julio. Most of you had never seen the Yankees this humiliated in your lifetimes. All you had to do was win one game. One game! But the Sox did it, and as a result, both the fanbase and the franchise are still feeling it after all these years. Because since 2004, the Yankees just haven't been the same Yankees -- sure, a WS in 2009, but all of those embarrassing exits in the playoffs? Getting swept by Detroit in the ALCS? Losing a one-game playoff against Houston? The Yankees are no longer anyone's big brother; they are not guaranteed to advance in the playoffs every time they're in anymore, and it's the Red Sox who showed the world that.
     
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  17. Mr. Conehead

    Mr. Conehead

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    Completely agree. 2017 should be an evaluation year for the Yankees. See which kids they should keep and identify what holes they need to fill. That was the format used that got the Yankees to the World Series between 1996 and 2000 as they developed guys like Jeter, Psoda, and Sandman and plugged in holes with O'Niel, Cone, and Martinez. Starting pitching I think will be one of them. There was talk that one big target for the Yanks in 2018 would be Jose Fernandez, damn :(
     
  18. ConnHuskBask

    ConnHuskBask Shut Em Down!

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    McCann is a 33 year old catcher who is barely a league average hitter who only earned 1.3 WAR (which severely over inflates defense and positional scarcity) due to the time he spent behind the plate. Putting McCann at DH nullifies any positive value he would have to the team. I agree, they won't bench him but I think they should look to move him for cash considerations and a couple mid level prospects.

    By WAR measures Big Papi was worth "only" 4.4 wins and Encarnacion was only slight behind at 3.9.

    The real stats to look at are wOBA and wRC+ where Edwin was .373 and 134 and McCann was .326 and 103. Huge difference.

    WAR isn't the end all be all and you just can't count up the games we finished out and get the delta from player in and player out.

    The fact remains that the Luxury tax will undoubtedly go up, Miller/Tex are off the books, next year CC/Arod are off the books and the only albatross contract left will be Ellsbury. That's a ton of money off the books and even with some players like Dellin and Didi arbitration eligible they still stand to have a significant decrease in payroll that should be invested back in the big league club.
     
  19. mauconnfan

    mauconnfan

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    Wow Stair, you're a lost soul to believe that. Guess you're one of those "baseball started in 2004 guys huh"?? Problem with you and Red Sox fans who just became anything close to significant (how does last place feel every couple of years huh?LOL) in 2004, you would prefer to forget how dominant the Yanks were for such a long time. I believe you need to do some reading, but you aren't alone the Nation knows little about baseball prior to 20034 that's been obvious. And the one's that do have takenbt he 5th - hilarious group of fans now, simply pure comedy! Enjoy your little millennium vacuum.

    Maybe there are young Yankee fans who feel that but most could give a rats a** I promise. I mean playoffs is what a fan wants, 162 games and competing is what a fan wants. Since the 1995 tell me how many times the Sox made the playoffs, were a player for the regular season and how many times they finished last?

    You wish you were us
     
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  20. Mr. Conehead

    Mr. Conehead

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    I am torn about Ortiz. He is a great competitor and teammate by all account and great in the clutch, a 2000's version of Reggie Jackson. That said, I am concerned that he 'may' have used PED and as a Yankees fan, I am not going to throw stones in a glass house; but, I wish all of these players just admit it, take the punishment and move one, i.e. be a McGuire and not a Bonds or A-Rod. My other grip on Ortiz is that from time to time, especially a few year back when his numbers were way down, it felt like he thought he was bigger than the game itself. Hate that. A-Rod did the same thing and I felt they same way about him.

    As for Pedroia, I like him. He's like a spark plug that goes all out every game. I think his attitude Sunday night had more to do with frustration at the Red Sox overall position more than anything else. The local press especially expected a World Series title this year, especially the ego issue with the Sox's former GM driving the Cubs in that direction, and seemed to be blind to the fact that to win it, a team needs 2 top-notch, proven shut-down playoff pitchers (think Schilling, Clemens, Pettitte, Cone, etc.) and the Red Sox do not have that.
     
  21. 7774

    7774

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    So. Much. Syracuse.
     
  22. Stairmaster

    Stairmaster Stainmaster?

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    I know exactly how dominant the Yankees were. I was raised by two people who had been Yankees fans since the 1950s. I know all about the Yankees' tradition and legacy through the 20th century and up to 2004 - I also know that Papi and the Sox took a steaming dump on that legacy and ruined a 30+/50+/70+ year stretch of pure playoff dominance, which is why older fans like yourself hate Ortiz. What the Yankees went through in 2004 was completely unprecedented throughout their history. Every time they played the Red Sox in a postseason situation, they automatically dispatched with them, whether it was 1978 or 1999. You could've always counted on them being able to push the Sox down. But 2004 changed that and showed that going forward, the Yankees franchise would not be the same.
     
  23. mauconnfan

    mauconnfan

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    You're too worked up on ONE year dude. Relax no one took a steaming dump on any legacy this is all in your mind. You guys still think about Bucky Dent and Aaron Boone? I mean geez Stair you're whacked if you think any one year ruined our lives. There was no legacy! Older fans hate Papi because he's not a baseball player not because he had a few big hits against the Yanks. Doesn't run out ground balls, doesn't play first base even when asked and quite honestly is a selfish guy. Hell was he the only red Sox player who had big hits, quick jerking the guy off. Petey, Youk, The Schill and others were part of your 2004 comeback as well as a couple breaks which went your way, it was in the books already good for you, happy for you. It's over, we have moved on need to rebuild again and will. Try not to make the playoffs then come in last, not a good pattern. Playoffs like 18 of 21 years is much more fun I promise - try it. The sweep hurts huh I can feel it in your frustration. Love it

    Oh yeah we will never be the same? LOL at least we do have something to BE right?;)
     
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  24. Mr. Conehead

    Mr. Conehead

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    Ah, baseball, like other sports is cyclical. Yes, the Sox beat them in '04 and it was painful; but, it little do with the success and failure of the Yankees over time. The only result has been an increase in the ego of Red Sox fans and their belief that the universe revolves around them. The Yanks with Mattingly, Guidry, and Righetti couldn't really beat anyone in the 80's. They kept trying to buy wins with 40 year old free agents like Don Baylor. When the Sox lost to the Mets in '86, the Yanks finished 5 1/2 games behind the Sox and had nothing do with that. Eventually, the Yanks got wise and focused on development that led to a heck of a stretch between 1996 and 2003 where the Yanks went to 6 World Series in 8 years, winning it 4 times. They then lost their way (again) and tried buying the Series, which they got in '09; but, not much else. Now, they are focused back on development and things are looking up. The Sox have gone through and will go through the samething themselves again. That's sports.
     
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  25. superjohn

    superjohn

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    Yup, it was losing in 2004 that is the reason the Yankees have only won one World Series since. It has nothing to do with horrible contracts and a team that wasn't built for playoff success. Stairmaster this cute stuff from you.
     
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  26. ConnHuskBask

    ConnHuskBask Shut Em Down!

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    Lol @Stairmaster

    I don't like Papi because he unequivocally tested positive for PEDs and the fact that Sox fans defend him to the death over that fact.

    The substance wasn't banned at the time and the list was supposed to be anonymous but it came out and he was on it.

    Do I really care that he was PED guy? No, not really given the era, but I just think it's comical that Sox fans completely disregard those facts.

    Also, anyone who watched the Yankee Soxs games of the early to mid 2000s knew how close those teams were so it was not that shocking that after winning 3 straight they could lose 4. That's not meant to downplay it, it was terrible, but somehow Sox fans think 1 year or even 3 years erases modern history and counts more than 96, 98, 99, 00 and 09.
     
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  27. mauconnfan

    mauconnfan

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    Not sure why we needed this, no one questioned him? WAR and worth are laughable though. Really? We can figure his worth because of WAR? What have we become as baseball fans. He wasn't worth 41.9 this year
     
  28. Deadrody

    Deadrody

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    I'm fully in favor of trading both McCann and Gardner, but until they do, they have slots in the lineup. The fact of life that means the Yankees are going to continue trotting out slow, overpaid veterans even if they are barely league average or maybe a bit better doesn't change until that player is no longer on the roster.

    I don't PREFER to have McCann in the lineup, but so long as he's on the roster, he's going to play.

    I'm curious which Kevin you are referring to. They definitely have options behind McCann that don't require signing Encarnacion or any other DH. And with as bad as the pitching projects to be next year, I doubt very seriously that there is any obtainable bat that could impact the team's overall trajectory in 2017. They managed to stay within striking distance of the playoffs with the roster they had in 2016. I say keep that strategy at least for 2017 and find out for real what you have in guys like Judge, Bird, Austin, Mason Williams, and more.
     
  29. Deadrody

    Deadrody

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    Indeed. And WHEN those guys are all off the books, then it's time to spend free agent money. Take a look at the top comps for Encarnacion on B-R. All but one were out of the game by age 36. I think he's a very solid bat, but there will be better options in a year or two when it makes sense to spend that money.
     
  30. UConnStats

    UConnStats

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    Someone had insinuated he's being overpaid.

    Most players have up years and down years, and fangraphs' $WAR is based off of a league-wide scale of $/production. So yes, Pedroia was worth 41.9 relative to other players production and salary. It doesn't mean he should/will get paid that, it just means he's bring excess value to his team.

    If you think that's crazy, look at what it claims Trout has been worth since he became a full time MLB player (far right column).
    IMG_7901.PNG
     
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