OT Red Sox caught cheating

[MilliniumPrince]

cmon, that's not we should be treating our elders. I understand Zim was being an aggressor but a "world class athlete" could really have just sidestepped that.

Yankees fan....Pedro was beyond classy in the way he handled Zimm. He could have hurt him and he would have been justified. Zimm was charging at him with the intent of asking for a recommendation for a good steak house. He gently grabbed him and basically used Zimm's momentum to roll him to the ground. Not much more he could have done.

That said, the Sux cheating is as surprising as the sun shinning on a hot summer day. In Boston, cheating is mandatory.

 

[MSGSeven]

Plus it was self defense. Zimmer was coming with hands to the face. I love how he bounces off the ground like a big bumble weeble when petey discards him like yesterday's trash

 

[August_West]

 

[MSGSeven]

 

[zyron]

Nothing you cited conflicts with what I said. The article clearly stated that the trainer told players in the dugout. It said nothing about signaling to the batter from the dugout. Most likely they stole the signals (detecting the pattern) and those runners used that to steal specific pitches when they were on base. You can do the same thing from any location with a TV shot of the catcher. The difference, and the only thing illegal about it according to the Commissioner, was the use of an Apple Watch to exchange the info.

Stealing signs is legal, using electronic devices to do it is not. They got caught and admitted they did it. I don't know what you are trying to prove.

 

[August_West]

Whos your papi

 

[Mr. French]

A guy on second stealing signs = part of the game.

Having your training staff use Apple watches to steal signs= Very Bostonian

You can't use electronic devices to steal signs.

Even that is bush league.

I'm not the biggest baseball purist with the "unwritten rules" stuff, but really stealing signs is a bush league move.

 

[MSGSeven]

Whos your papi

 

[80shusky]

Yankees fan....Pedro was beyond classy in the way he handled Zimm. He could have hurt him and he would have been justified. Zimm was charging at him with the intent of asking for a recommendation for a good steak house. He gently grabbed him and basically used Zimm's momentum to roll him to the ground. Not much more he could have done.

That said, the Sux cheating is as surprising as the sun shinning on a hot summer day. In Boston, cheating is mandatory.

I'm not a Yankees fan. Never have been. I have been a Dodgers fan since I was little. My dad used to root for them in Brooklyn as a kid and we moved west to Cali when I was young and I followed them in LA. I do root for the Mets because I live in CT and they are on TV and it would be nice if they didn't suck so I could watch some decent NL baseball on TV. However, I am a Dodgers fan. I actually can't stand the Yankees. He could have done more, he could have just side stepped him.

 

[kibblesnbits]

Stealing signs is legal, using electronic devices to do it is not. They got caught and admitted they did it. I don't know what you are trying to prove.

Actually that's not true. As The NY Times noted, many teams have TVs in the clubhouse to try and decipher signs. That's not illegal. What they aren't allowed is electronic communications devices in the dugout (presumably excluding the bullpen and replay phones), so they have to use sneakernet (clubhouse boys) to get the results. So far it hasn't been reported that the Red Sox admitted to anything beyond using an Apple Watch instead of manual data transfer.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

Cheating? Or just playing 'patty cake?'

 

[gtcam]

The "other people are doing it too." Is a terribly weak argument for anyone above the age of 5. There are a lot of people doing a lot of things...does that mean everyone should? .

A marquee team devised a scheme to use technology to cheat. It was so blatant the organization admitted it without defense. Why try to rationalize it? Weak ass mentality.

To your point, I don't know who is doing it. I know who got caught. They had the stones to admit it once caught. What's your excuse?

1. Never said other people doing it - never said the Bosox were doing it - I said if some were doing it probably all were doing it
2. I wasn't rationalizing anything
3 Whats my excuse? WTH are you talking about

 

[zyron]

Actually that's not true. As The NY Times noted, many teams have TVs in the clubhouse to try and decipher signs. That's not illegal. What they aren't allowed is electronic communications devices in the dugout (presumably excluding the bullpen and replay phones), so they have to use sneakernet (clubhouse boys) to get the results. So far it hasn't been reported that the Red Sox admitted to anything beyond using an Apple Watch instead of manual data transfer.

In recent years, as cameras have proliferated in major league ballparks, teams have begun using the abundance of video to help them discern opponents’ signs, including the catcher’s signals to the pitcher. Some clubs have had clubhouse attendants quickly relay information to the dugout from the personnel monitoring video feeds.


The Red Sox admitted to league investigators that they were able to significantly shorten this communications chain by using electronics. In what mimicked the rhythm of a double play, the information would rapidly go from video personnel to a trainer to the players.

So they were using electronics, which is not legal. Are you dense?

 

[mauconnfan]

Cheating? Or just playing 'patty cake?'

But Doc, the Laser Show did it once too I hope you remember but that one was ok right??? Lol

No matter it's not cheating in the same form as the Sox did but you can all keep trying it's entertaining

 

[Doctor Hoop]

But Doc, the Laser Show did it once too I hope you remember but that one was ok right??? Lol

No matter it's not cheating in the same form as the Sox did but you can all keep trying it's entertaining

Perhaps. But the ARod slap was just so ... noticeably wimpy, it stands out. Even the NY Daily News has it as one of ARod's worst moments, number one being getting banned for 162 games for PED use.

 

[The Viking]

Wow could have never guessed this lol that's the first reduction of a suspension ever right Viking?

I know you are but what am I time for the Sox fans hilarious and embarrassing at the same time.

Suspensions get reduced, sure. What could Sanchez have argued to get his reduced considering he was caught on camera not once but twice suckerpunching a player on the ground, while looking around to see if anyone was noticing.
But it's so blatant that Torre made sure the Sox series was over before announcing the decision. I don't think even the biggest diehard NY fan could deny that.

 

[zyron]

Suspensions get reduced, sure. What could Sanchez have argued to get his reduced considering he was caught on camera not once but twice suckerpunching a player on the ground, while looking around to see if anyone was noticing.
But it's so blatant that Torre made sure the Sox series was over before announcing the decision. I don't think even the biggest diehard NY fan could deny that.

In this thread: Red Sox fans making the Red Sox the victims of the Red Sox cheating.

 

[The Viking]

Red Sox accused of stealing signals via video - The Boston Globe

On Tuesday, the Red Sox filed their complaint with MLB. According to an industry source, the Sox have evidence that the Yankees used cameras from the YES Network to zoom in on Red Sox bench coach Gary DiSarcina flashing signs to players from the dugout.

Incorporating their television network to aid in sign-stealing could be interpreted as a greater violation than what the Red Sox did.

 

[kibblesnbits]

In recent years, as cameras have proliferated in major league ballparks, teams have begun using the abundance of video to help them discern opponents’ signs, including the catcher’s signals to the pitcher. Some clubs have had clubhouse attendants quickly relay information to the dugout from the personnel monitoring video feeds.


The Red Sox admitted to league investigators that they were able to significantly shorten this communications chain by using electronics. In what mimicked the rhythm of a double play, the information would rapidly go from video personnel to a trainer to the players.

So they were using electronics, which is not legal. Are you dense?

You don't catch on very quickly do you? You claimed the use of electronics to steal signals is illegal. Then you cited teams using cameras and TVs legally and seemed clueless that those are electronics. Here's a clue -if you have to plug it in it's probably electronics.

The Red Sox admitted to using a watch to accelerate transfer to the trainer and players in the dugout. That was the only rules violation. What no one has shown is that the information was transferred to the batter in real time. If it happened it would be easy to show as the signals would have to be simple. If it didn't happen then the benefits over the legal sneakernet technique were minimal. I suspect that's the case because the Commissioner seemed to minimize it as gamesmanship between two rivals. If so, it will probably just be a fine for violating the communications rules, not some excessive theft of signs.

 

[zyron]

You don't catch on very quickly do you? You claimed the use of electronics to steal signals is illegal. Then you cited teams using cameras and TVs legally and seemed clueless that those are electronics. Here's a clue -if you have to plug it in it's probably electronics.

The Red Sox admitted to using a watch to accelerate transfer to the trainer and players in the dugout. What no one has showed is that the information was transferred to the batter in real time. If it happened it would be easy to show as the signals would have to be simple. If it didn't happen then the benefits over the legal sneakernet technique were minimal. I suspect that's the case because the Commissioner seemed to minimize it as gamesmanship between two rivals. If so, it will probably just be a fine for violating the communications rules, not some excessive theft of signs.

You are an idiot, they admitted to cheating. But you are here saying, no they didn't.

 

[zyron]

Red Sox accused of stealing signals via video - The Boston Globe

On the Red Sox counterclaim that the Yankees were using a camera in their dugout to steal signs, sources denied it, with one saying it was a PR move by the Red Sox to try to muddy the waters. "There is no meat on the bone," a source said. "No chance," Yankees manager Joe Girardi added.

 

[kibblesnbits]

You are an idiot, they admitted to cheating. But you are here saying, no they didn't.

I said they broke the rules. How stupid do you have to be to interpret that as claiming they didn't cheat?

 

[superjohn]

You don't catch on very quickly do you? You claimed the use of electronics to steal signals is illegal. Then you cited teams using cameras and TVs legally and seemed clueless that those are electronics. Here's a clue -if you have to plug it in it's probably electronics.

The Red Sox admitted to using a watch to accelerate transfer to the trainer and players in the dugout. That was the only rules violation. What no one has shown is that the information was transferred to the batter in real time. If it happened it would be easy to show as the signals would have to be simple. If it didn't happen then the benefits over the legal sneakernet technique were minimal. I suspect that's the case because the Commissioner seemed to minimize it as gamesmanship between two rivals. If so, it will probably just be a fine for violating the communications rules, not some excessive theft of signs.

They got caught cheating and admitted to cheating. Please stop.

 

[superjohn]

Plus it was self defense. Zimmer was coming with hands to the face. I love how he bounces off the ground like a big bumble weeble when petey discards him like yesterday's trash

Zimmer was a 73 year old man, yep it was really cool.

 

[kibblesnbits]

They got caught cheating and admitted to cheating. Please stop.

There are different levels of cheating. It's reasonable to discuss that issue, particularly since you don't know exactly what they admitted to doing. The Commissioner, who clearly knows a hell of a lot more about this than you, implied this was hardly as serious as some want it to be, just as the allegations against the Yankees may or may not be as serious (or even as true) as Sox fans want them to be.

 

[superjohn]

Whos your papi

Lol. Don't get in this war, there is no way you can win. It would be like me, a Knicks fan trying to show up the Celtics.

 

[80shusky]

I had the honor of having lunch a few times with Ralph Branca. He was a co-worker of a friend of a friend. These lunches were not big affairs where he was a guest of honor or something. They were intimate, just three or four of us. Ralph would rarely talk about baseball and never about the "shot heard round the world" unless he was pressed. But one time when asked in the conversation about it he mentioned that he thought SF was stealing signs and using optics and what not to do so. But he didn't even seem that upset by it. Just kind of shrugged it off. I remember one of the first times I ate with him, he had on a tie with zoo animals on it. My friend who was with us asked him about the crazy looking tie. Ralph, and I am paraphrasing, said "what? Look there's a zebra over here, a giraffe, a lion, comon!" All the while pointing out the animals on the tie. When asked about Jackie Robinson he mentioned the obvious and well known support by Pee Wee Reese but also that he and some of his team mates supported him while others even on the Dodgers didn't want to play with him. He seem genuinely perplexed by this because he thought Jackie was a good guy and a great player. Anyway, the sign stealing thing made me think of this. He treated me, a nobody to him, as if we had been friends our whole lives. I'm guessing that is why he treated Jackie the same way. People were people to him. Pretty cool.

 

[superjohn]

There are different levels of cheating. It's reasonable to discuss that issue, particularly since you don't know exactly what they admitted to doing. The Commissioner, who clearly knows a hell of a lot more about this than you, implied this was hardly as serious as some want it to be, just as the allegations against the Yankees may or may not be as serious (or even as true) as Sox fans want them to be.

I didn't say anything about any levels, you're the one playing that game. All I've said is the Red Sox knowingly cheated and admitted to the cheating once they were caught.

 

[zyron]

I didn't say anything about any levels, you're the one playing that game. All I've said is the Red Sox knowingly cheated and admitted to the cheating once they were caught.

But, but other teams have TV's in their clubhouses, those are electronics. kibblesnbits, who doesn't understand the difference of having electronics in the dugout.

 

[uconnbill]

If the Red Sox played in a real stadium, Bucky Dent homer would have been a pop-up. The Wall giveth and the Wall Taketh