OT- Pete Carroll

[tzznandrew]

Right, because if they called a run and Lynch fumbled, everybody would be screaming, "why didnt they throw a quick slant pass into four guys??!!!""

NOBODY WOULD BE SAYING THAT.

So, it was not a "quick slant into four guys"--which is pure silliness. One corner was picked, and all the other Patriots were on the line of scrimmage or the other side. The only person who had a play on the ball was Butler, and it took incredible instincts and skill to beat the Seattle receiver to the spot.

As to you point: sure, people wouldn't be up in arms. So what? Lots of people are up in arms about all sorts of things, but just because lots of people believe something to have been the right decision doesn't mean it is. That's just a basic fallacy. Additionally, calling plays worrying about how the media, or random people, are going to react is the definition of playing to lose. He made a bold call. It failed. He has to live with that. But I'd rather be him, making his call, than have been the coward that was Mike McCarthy.

Again, not what I would have run, but not as absurdly indefensible as you'd make it out to be.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

So, it was not a "quick slant into four guys"--which is pure silliness. One corner was picked, and all the other Patriots were on the line of scrimmage or the other side. The only person who had a play on the ball was Butler, and it took incredible instincts and skill to beat the Seattle receiver to the spot.

As to you point: sure, people wouldn't be up in arms. So what? Lots of people are up in arms about all sorts of things, but just because lots of people believe something to have been the right decision doesn't mean it is. That's just a basic fallacy. Additionally, calling plays worrying about how the media, or random people, are going to react is the definition of playing to lose. He made a bold call. It failed. He has to live with that. But I'd rather be him, making his call, than have been the coward that was Mike McCarthy.

Again, not what I would have run, but not as absurdly indefensible as you'd make it out to be.

Well it cost them the Super Bowl. It was a terrible call. Just admit it.

 

[Adios]

Well it cost them the Super Bowl. It was a terrible call. Just admit it.

The only reason it was a "terrible call" is because of Browner. Kind of reminds me of the Buccaneers championship, except Browner "coached" the defense for that one play.

Also, God was rewarding Brady but that was after God punished him twice using Eli Manning for owning Peyton Manning and the AFC. Wilson was punished for going 11-0 against Super Bowl winning QBs.

 

[tzznandrew]

Well it cost them the Super Bowl. It was a terrible call. Just admit it.

Butler's great play cost them the game. The play call itself didn't.

It's a call I wouldn't have made, but hardly indefensible.

 

[Lefty2one]

You could justify a pass there if it's a roll out or a play where Wilson only throws to his target if he's wide open. If not, throw it out of the back of the end zone. The risk/reward on a quick slant in that situation is a terrible gamble. If you do want a quick slant, have your guy isolated to one side of the field.

A quick hitter into congestion - and a play that relies on your slot WR shoving a 6'4 230 pound defense back into Butler? It doesn't get any dumber than that. Seriously, just think about that fact - we're calling a play to win the SB that greatly relies on our ability to shove Brandon Browner backwards into Butler. That's the play you call? That's the risk you want to take?

The play call was the dumbest I can remember in all of sports. My initial reaction was bursting out into laughter at how stupid it was, and I wanted Seattle to win.

 

[jleves]

Butler's great play cost them the game. The play call itself didn't.

It's a call I wouldn't have made, but hardly indefensible.

I can sum this up easily with one sentence:

My wife who calls an extra point a field goal immediately looked at me and said, 'Why didn't they run it again?'

That's really all you need to know to understand how stupid that play was.

 

[Eskapeesto]

 

[WillB4]

But, the 'catch' that got the Hawks to the 5, with Kearse on his back about to make that amazing catch, the Pats defender(?) jumps over him!! If he dives into him, as most do, there is no catch.
I was ready to rip up my ticket, had the Pats -1, thank you Pete.

 

[Cheeky]

If he dives into him, as most do, there is no catch.

It was a one in a thousand lucky catch. If the 2nd defender dives into him after the ball has already been knocked away, it's more likely a 15 yard roughing the passer and 1st down. The fact that the ball ended up in the guy's hands was not something the safety could have anticipated.

 

[Husky25]

It was a one in a thousand lucky catch. If the 2nd defender dives into him after the ball has already been knocked away, it's more likely a 15 yard roughing the passer and 1st down. The fact that the ball ended up in the guy's hands was not something the safety could have anticipated.

Umm...there is only one potential passer on any given play and he was wearing #3 on that particular play. That is not Kearse's number.

Once the ball is touched by a player other than the one taking the snap, pass interference and defensive holding cannot be called. Unnecessary Roughness would not be called either unless the second player speared Kearse. He was not down and the ball was still live.

 

[Uconn77Duke74]

Umm...there is only one potential passer on any given play and he was wearing #3 on that particular play. That is not Kearse's number.

Once the ball is touched by a player other than the one taking the snap, pass interference and defensive holding cannot be called. Unnecessary Roughness would not be called either unless the second player speared Kearse. He was not down and the ball was still live.

Amazed that Butler actually got up and finished the tackle after the ridiculous Kearse catch. Most DB's would already be running down field celebrating the fact they tipped the ball away.

 

[upstater]

 

[partyATkemba]

Your comment might be more accurate if this was the last play of the game. It wasn't. It was 2nd and goal from the half yard line with 1 timeout left. The game didn't need to be won or lost on that snap.

I had to stop reading the thread after this comment.

Listen, it's not that he wanted to win it on the last play, it's that if it came down to it he wanted there to be an opportunity to run a 4th down play if they didn't get in, as opposed to time running out.

The 2nd down (waste) play, was just bad wording from Carrol. His thought process was to pass and worst case it was incomplete and stops the clock. This way he has his whole aresenal for 3rd and 4th down, because he has the timeout in his back pocket. If they ran on 2nd (and Lynch didn't get in) they would have had to burn that last timeout and then they HAVE to throw on 3rd and 4th if necessary.

 

[Dogdeacon]

The only people still arguing the worst play call ever thing is those that choose to view the situation totally binary, either its the worst play call ever or not. Can't be a combination of things, Butler can't make an exceptional play if the play isn't called, Carroll cannot play the odds of only a 1-2% chance of interception (because it was intercepted - it is now a 100% chance?!) nor the possibility that a run may limit him to 2 chances versus a pass giving him 3. Someone's wife questioning the play calling definitely clinches it.

 

[mets1090]

My only gripe is that if you were going to pass it should have been a play action to the flat where it's very easy to throw the ball away if necessary. Too many things can go wrong on a slant pass over the middle at the 1 yard line to warrant breaking that out on 2nd down.

He could have called plenty of plays that would have a worse expected outcome but I would think a PA or a read option with a pass option as well would have been far better.

 

[Cheeky]

Umm...there is only one potential passer on any given play and he was wearing #3 on that particular play. That is not Kearse's number.

Yeah man, nice catch on the obvious error.
If he drilled the guy on the ground, it would have been unnecessary roughness. No point in it when the lucky catch is only going to happen once every 5 seasons or so.

 

[Husky25]

Yeah man, nice catch on the obvious error.
If he drilled the guy on the ground, it would have been unnecessary roughness. No point in it when the lucky catch is only going to happen once every 5 seasons or so.

I believe the rest of my post addressed that. I think it's tough to blow someone up when they are in Kearse's position like that, unless it is blatant spearing. The DB is allowed to hit him however.

 

[Cheeky]

I think it's tough to blow someone up when they are in Kearse's position like that, unless it is blatant spearing.

You think it's tough to "blow someone up" when they are lying on their back, prone, on the ground?

Are you sure that "blowing someone up" is the standard for Un. Roughness?

 

[Husky25]

You think it's tough to "blow someone up" when they are lying on their back, prone, on the ground?

Are you sure that "blowing someone up" is the standard for Un. Roughness?

The angle that Harmon took? Yes.

 

[AstarIsBorn31]

Love ittttttt........

 

[mauconnfan]

Now that we know how seriously injured Sherman, Chancellor and Thomas were on the defensive side and Lane too, it's amazing the Pats only won by 4.

 

[Cheeky]

Now that we know how seriously injured Sherman, Chancellor and Thomas were on the defensive side and Lane too, it's amazing the Pats only won by 4.

It definitely could have been a lot more. Seahawks were lucky to be in it. Luck ran out.

 

[swami7774]

The smarter course would have been: quick running play on second down, then--if they didn't make it--time out(final one); pass play with about :20 seconds left; if THAT failed, then hand it to Lynch for one last push. They wouldn't have had time for 3 running plays.
If Seattle hadn't wasted two TOs on the last drive this entire thread likely wouldn't exist.
Been a great week for Patriot Nation.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Now that we know how seriously injured Sherman, Chancellor and Thomas were on the defensive side and Lane too, it's amazing the Pats only won by 4.

Sound more bitter. You can't. Honestly this is grade school stuff right here.

 

[superjohn]

It was a disaster of a play call but Carroll handled it like a man. With his overly optimistic outlook on life this will be far less devastating to him as it would be most coaches, his interview with Matt Lauer was revealing.

 

[upstater]

Now that we know how seriously injured Sherman, Chancellor and Thomas were on the defensive side and Lane too, it's amazing the Pats only won by 4.

Patriots don't go around boohooing. Thomas had a torn labrum? Yeah, so did Hightower. Injuries happen. In fact, Casillas was in there bcause the Patriots defensive captain was not.

Anyone who brings up injuries to Patriots fans is not going to get any sympathy, given all the Super Bowls with Ty Law, Rodney Harrison, being out, Gronkowski injured.

 

[upstater]

It was a disaster of a play call but Carroll handled it like a man. With his overly optimistic outlook on life this will be far less devastating to him as it would be most coaches, his interview with Matt Lauer was revealing.

The look Marshawn Lynch gave as he was going to the sideline was very familiar. Patriots fans have seen that look before. Carroll is very improved as a coach, but he can lose the locker room almost instantaneously. Go watch the Turning Point on NBCSN or Sound FX on NFLN, and judge for yourself what kind of reactions Carroll gets when he talks to his players. I don't see much respect there, not much at all, and that has a familiar look to it. Not that Bledsoe and Terry Glenn were the best of teammmates (as I imagine Lynch isn't either) but they lead a mutiny against the guy.

 

[superjohn]

The look Marshawn Lynch gave as he was going to the sideline was very familiar. Patriots fans have seen that look before. Carroll is very improved as a coach, but he can lose the locker room almost instantaneously. Go watch the Turning Point on NBCSN or Sound FX on NFLN, and judge for yourself what kind of reactions Carroll gets when he talks to his players. I don't see much respect there, not much at all, and that has a familiar look to it. Not that Bledsoe and Terry Glenn were the best of teammmates (as I imagine Lynch isn't either) but they lead a mutiny against the guy.

Marshawn had that look on his face because he knew he was about to be a back to back champion and the hero with the winning TD. The whole team was pissed at Carroll but I'm sure they will regroup very quickly, his players in Seattle absolutely love playing for him.

 

[upstater]

Marshawn had that look on his face because he knew he was about to be a back to back champion and the hero with the winning TD. The whole team was pissed at Carroll but I'm sure they will regroup very quickly, his players in Seattle absolutely love playing for him.

So, you didn't watch any of the mic'd up Sound FX, where Pete was telling him where to run, and Marshawn was basically, I'll read it, now go away Carroll?? No?

 

[superjohn]

So, you didn't watch any of the mic'd up Sound FX, where Pete was telling him where to run, and Marshawn was basically, I'll read it, now go away Carroll?? No?

I don't know what that is. Also, don't know what you are saying. You don't think Carroll is a players coach and Seattle's players don't like playing for him?