OT- Pete Carroll

[Deepster]

Passes from the 1 had been intercepted exactly 0 times this season before that play. And historically, it's 1-2%. Their plan avoided potential sack, and 98% of the time it results in either a TD or an incomplete (that serves as the TO they need to run it twice).

So, yeah. Once again--I wouldn't call that play. But it is thoughtless, absurd hyperbole to call it "worst call ever."

Eh, it's easy and lazy to pile on the thoughtless "It's the worst call ever" bandwagon. I'm sure every water cooler in America had the same conversation yesterday.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Carroll's explanation made perfect sense to me.

They couldn't run the ball 3 times from the 1. They had 1 timeout left. If the pass falls incomplete, the clock stops. They can run it on 3rd and if they don't get in, they call a timeout and likely run it on 4th. Butler made an all time great play on it.

The big gaff was being disjointed after the freak catch by Kearse. They let way too much time elapse and went from over 1:00 left there to like 25 seconds before that final play.

This. Should have been obvious that a throw in that situation was appropriate. Then with the timeout they get two more runs. Russell Wilson should have made sure that the pass was either un-catchable by anyone or that it was a sure TD. Carrol made the right decision, Wilson did not. Put the blame where it belongs, or the credit, as it was a great defensive play by Butler.

 

[tzznandrew]

I don't see Seattle risking a sack and potential loss of yardage by dropping Wilson back or rolling him out. If the pass wasn't there he should have just thrown it away.

Right, except when you see the field from the minute his arm begins to move, Lockette looks wide open.

Butler has already made the read, but it was only because Butler and the Patriots had specifically planned for that play that he was able to recognize it. And it is still unbelievable that he got there on time.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

They are not calling read options there. Too dangerous.

Run it up the gut, your best bet.

If you throw, go into shotgun.

But read option? With the defense so close to the line, Wilson risks someone getting him for a 4 yard loss.

3rd and 5 and no timeouts. This is why you run it there 2 out of 3 times. With only one timeout, you have to pass it once.

Remind me where I said anything about a read option...

I said qb rollout. Wilson lines up under center and immediately sprints right. The tight end can roll out to the corner too. Wilson can run it in (very possible), throw a much safer throw, or throw it away.

At least if he lines up under center, the pats could be thinking run. Instead he lined up in shotgun and it was obvious it was going to be a pass. Heck even have him do the rollout from shotgun if you want to protect against a sack. Then he has a few seconds to make a decision and throw it away if he has to.

None of this involves the read option, which i never even hinted at.

Also, I said it the first time, it wasn't necessarily the decision to pass that was so egregious. IT WAS THE PASS THAT THEY CALLED. Although I'm still pretty certain that if they run Lynch he gets in one of two times. The pats do after all have the second worst run stuffing d in the league.

How can anyone think that calling a play that requires the qb to throw a missile into a congested group of people is a good decision at that point?? Its insanity that people are defending that play call. Not the decision to pass, but the actual pass they drew up.

The pass was intercepted and it wasn't even a bad pass or decision by Wilson. He executed the play and put the ball what would've been on the money. That in and of itself should make it clear that it was a terrible play call.

 

[selles]

This. Should have been obvious that a throw in that situation was appropriate. Then with the timeout they get two more runs. Russell Wilson should have made sure that the pass was either un-catchable by anyone or that it was a sure TD. Carrol made the right decision, Wilson did not. Put the blame where it belongs, or the credit, as it was a great defensive play by Butler.

This. Sometimes a team loses not because they screwed up, but because a guy on the other team makes an incredible play. It's not like a pick play on the goal-line is an unusual call. It was fine here, especially given the timeout situation. Wilson's pass wasn't terrible either, maybe a tad high but he led his receiver into the end zone like you're supposed to.

It was just a brilliant play by Butler. He made an exceptionally fast read, and the speed and power of his break was even more exceptional. Most guys in his position wouldn't make the immediate, all-out commitment to the break that Butler did - because if Wilson sees him and holds the ball, there's a good chance his man comes off the pick and catches a floater in the corner of the end zone. Then Butler's the goat. So most guys in Butler's spot would have hesitated for an instant, and in that hesitation the game would have been lost.

The guy made an amazing play, especially given what was on the line. It's a shame there's not more focus on that instead of what Seattle did or didn't do.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Passes from the 1 had been intercepted exactly 0 times this season before that play. And historically, it's 1-2%. Their plan avoided potential sack, and 98% of the time it results in either a TD or an incomplete (that serves as the TO they need to run it twice).

So, yeah. Once again--I wouldn't call that play. But it is thoughtless, absurd hyperbole to call it "worst call ever."

BS that 98% of the time that pass results in a TD or incomplete pass. They threw a missile into traffic to a guy who had exactly 18 career catches. Is it even likely he would've caught that? Just as easily couldve bounced right off his chest or hands for a pick.

And the pats have the second worse run defense in the league. And seattle the best run game in the league and best power back int he league. We can throw stats at it all day.

Every single person watching had the exact same reaction. "Why the hell did they call a pass?". Thats 114 million people. Upon closer examination, it was determined that its not necessarily the decision to pass, but the pass they called that was outrageous.

That has to be one of the riskiest passing plays in their playbook as far as likelihood of a turnover. It could've gotten jumped (which it did) or tipped at the line for a pick, or tipped by the back for a pick, or bounced off the receivers chest for a pick. Certainly Seattle has about 50 other passing plays that are much safer.

They were on the 1 yard line in the Super Bowl with 20 seconds to go and a timeout with the best running back in the league who has been bowling over the Pats all game and they threw a rocket pass into a group of four guys to a receiver with 18 career catches.

Its the worst decision ever. Name me a worse one.

 

[Husky25]

Right, except when you see the field from the minute his arm begins to move, Lockette looks wide open.

Butler has already made the read, but it was only because Butler and the Patriots had specifically planned for that play that he was able to recognize it. And it is still unbelievable that he got there on time.

Kearse is blocking before the ball is thrown. The Patriots were called on that earlier in the half.

 

[Dogdeacon]

You just can't evaluate the quality of the decision based solely on the outcome. The stats say turnover risk via a pass was statistically insignificant vs a run. And that Lynch hadn't been that effective in 1yd situations*. I think if Collinsworth hadn't been rooting for the Hawks and gone so crazy over the call instead of the great defensive play the narrative on this would be flipped. Not to say there should be no questioning of the play calling, but it should be at least 50-50 bad call phenomenal defense. If Butler isn't prepared and doesn't make a GREAT play there no one says boo, it is only because the guy made a play that the decision is retroactively so over-the-top horrible.

Facts are Butler made a 1/100 play in the most crucial moment of the biggest game of the American sports year and everyone is bitching about play calling. Why?

*Almost no one cites the Pats subpar stats against the run as the 'best' reason to go with Lynch there, that's the lone argument I see on second guessing the play call but even then the venom currently in play is way over the top.

 

[superjohn]

It's amazing that any people are saying it was a decent call, throwing it from 1 yard out into the congested middle of the field is the dumbest possible thing you could do in that situation and it somehow becomes even dumber when you have the best back in the league and the best running qb in the league. You win or lose with your best option and if miraculously the Pats stop you three straight times at the goaline you tip your cap to them for stopping you with your best. Carroll's explanation makes the call seem even more ludicrous, he called that play to waste a play, are you freaking kidding me.

 

[tzznandrew]

BS that 98% of the time that pass results in a TD or incomplete pass. They threw a missile into traffic to a guy who had exactly 18 career catches. Is it even likely he would've caught that? Just as easily couldve bounced right off his chest or hands for a pick.

Its the worst decision ever. Name me a worse one.

I'm giving you actual facts. I don't have the stats to show whether a slant is more likely to cause an interception or not.

On the goal-line passes are rarely intercepted, and if you look at the picture there's literally no one else there. Everyone keeps talking about how congested it was, but it really wasn't at all. Kearse is blocking, and the safety is far away. Butler is the only player, besides Lockette, that had a chance on the ball. He got there first.

The Seahawks figured--and 98% of the time stats show they'd be right--that they get a TD or an incomplete, and then could run it with Lynch.

You can talk about how the Pats had one of the worst goalline run defenses. That's fine. But you also have to acknowledge Lynch had been 1 for 5 in those situations. And, as unstoppable as he had been, he had gotten stuffed when the Pats knew the rush was coming.

I don't like the decision. A fade to the corner would have been better. But the only reason people are up in arms is that the incredibly-rare worst case scenario happened. Otherwise, it's just an incomplete and they get two goalline runs with Lynch.

As for naming you a worse decision, I'm not going to go through a million, but statistically Mike McCarthy made like 50 two weeks ago.

 

[Scoe]

You don't waste a play when you need a TD to win the game, maybe you waste a play if you need a FG to win.

 

[superjohn]

I'm giving you actual facts. I don't have the stats to show whether a slant is more likely to cause an interception or not.

On the goal-line passes are rarely intercepted, and if you look at the picture there's literally no one else there. Everyone keeps talking about how congested it was, but it really wasn't at all. Kearse is blocking, and the safety is far away. Butler is the only player, besides Lockette, that had a chance on the ball. He got there first.

The Seahawks figured--and 98% of the time stats show they'd be right--that they get a TD or an incomplete, and then could run it with Lynch.

You can talk about how the Pats had one of the worst goalline run defenses. That's fine. But you also have to acknowledge Lynch had been 1 for 5 in those situations. And, as unstoppable as he had been, he had gotten stuffed when the Pats knew the rush was coming.

I don't like the decision. A fade to the corner would have been better. But the only reason people are up in arms is that the incredibly-rare worst case scenario happened. Otherwise, it's just an incomplete and they get two goalline runs with Lynch.

As for naming you a worse decision, I'm not going to go through a million, but statistically Mike McCarthy made like 50 two weeks ago.

You don't see interceptions on slants in the middle of the field from the 1 because nobody throws slants into the middle of the field from the 1. Wilson is 5'10, the ball could be tipped at the line, players can converge and intercept it, players converge and collision dislodges ball in the air. It's such a stupid call that there is really no explanation for it, Carroll's explanation is that it was just a wasted play to set up the next play.

 

[tzznandrew]

You don't waste a play when you need a TD to win the game, maybe you waste a play if you need a FG to win.

I thought Carroll's immediate explanation made no sense.

What likely happened: with 1 TO but in great position to score, they thought the Pats would burn their TOs. They didn't. That forced the Seahawks into a position where they needed to throw once. They decided to throw on 2nd down knowing they either got the TD or the clock stopped.

 

[Deepster]

It's amazing that any people are saying it was a decent call, throwing it from 1 yard out into the congested middle of the field is the dumbest possible thing you could do in that situation and it somehow becomes even dumber when you have the best back in the league and the best running qb in the league. You win or lose with your best option and if miraculously the Pats stop you three straight times at the goaline you tip your cap to them for stopping you with your best. Carroll's explanation makes the call seem even more ludicrous, he called that play to waste a play, are you freaking kidding me.

Your comment might be more accurate if this was the last play of the game. It wasn't. It was 2nd and goal from the half yard line with 1 timeout left. The game didn't need to be won or lost on that snap.

 

[tzznandrew]

You don't see interceptions on slants in the middle of the field from the 1 because nobody throws slants into the middle of the field from the 1. Wilson is 5'10, the ball could be tipped at the line, players can converge and intercept it, players converge and collision dislodges ball in the air. It's such a stupid call that there is really no explanation for it, Carroll's explanation is that it was just a wasted play to set up the next play.

You don't get to just say things and have them be true.

There were 60+ throws just this season from the 1, let alone the 2 or inside the 5. It's hard to get a stat for that, especially in this moment. I'd wager that teams absolutely do that play from the 1. I'd wager Seattle has run it this year, and probably scored a TD on it. Which is probably why Butler was able to recognize it.

Sure the ball could have been tipped. But Lynch could have fumbled. A million things can go wrong on any play, and the only reason people care about this play is because an incredibly rare thing happened.

 

[superjohn]

Your comment might be more accurate if this was the last play of the game. It wasn't. It was 2nd and goal from the half yard line with 1 timeout left. The game didn't need to be won or lost on that snap.

Yup and on third down Carroll should have called a throw out of bounds because he doesn't have to score there. It would have really set up that fourth down play, you know the one that matters.

 

[Scoe]

I thought Carroll's immediate explanation made no sense.

What likely happened: with 1 TO but in great position to score, they thought the Pats would burn their TOs. They didn't. That forced the Seahawks into a position where they needed to throw once. They decided to throw on 2nd down knowing they either got the TD or the clock stopped.

Don't play mind games play football and run the ball with Lynch, who was a half yard from getting a TD so they had momentum. Trust your D to finish the job, if your D gives up a gw TD or game tying FG then thats on them.

 

[Uconn77Duke74]

I thought Belichick also did a horrible job allowing the Seattle TD play right before the half. With 6 seconds left every single patriot player should have immediately just tackled their Seattle counterpart, Flag- ball on one yard line with 1 or 2 seconds left. Seattle would have probably just kicked the FG.

 

[Matt (Chicago)]

Kearse is blocking before the ball is thrown. The Patriots were called on that earlier in the half.

He wasn't blocking... Browner jammed him at the line of scrimmage. The play was actually designed so that Kearse would run interference for and set a pick for Lockette. Who knows, the play may have actually worked if Browner hadnt done such a good job jamming him up at the line.

 

[Husky25]

He wasn't blocking... Browner jammed him at the line of scrimmage. The play was actually designed so that Kearse would run interference for and set a pick for Lockette. Who knows, the play may have actually worked if Browner hadnt done such a good job jamming him up at the line.

A pick is also illegal.

 

[HuskyHawk]

This. Sometimes a team loses not because they screwed up, but because a guy on the other team makes an incredible play. It's not like a pick play on the goal-line is an unusual call. It was fine here, especially given the timeout situation. Wilson's pass wasn't terrible either, maybe a tad high but he led his receiver into the end zone like you're supposed to.

It was just a brilliant play by Butler. He made an exceptionally fast read, and the speed and power of his break was even more exceptional. Most guys in his position wouldn't make the immediate, all-out commitment to the break that Butler did - because if Wilson sees him and holds the ball, there's a good chance his man comes off the pick and catches a floater in the corner of the end zone. Then Butler's the goat. So most guys in Butler's spot would have hesitated for an instant, and in that hesitation the game would have been lost.

The guy made an amazing play, especially given what was on the line. It's a shame there's not more focus on that instead of what Seattle did or didn't do.

And as a result, Brady gave him the Chevy Truck he got for MVP. While no big deal for most, Butler is an undrafted rookie...not high on the pay scale.

 

[BugsyCT]

With 1 TO and 24 seconds, they could have run the ball with Lynch or a QB keeper by Wilson. If they get stuffed, call the last TO. They still have 2 downs left to throw a fade route or pass on a rollout (Wilson can scramble and is tough to bring down) - just have to avoid a sack or an INT. If nothing's there, throw it away. On 4th & 1, try one more run or pass it again.

Point it, to throw that ball into a tight window on 2nd & 1 when they had other options makes it a high risk call.

 

[Deepster]

Point it, to throw that ball into a tight window on 2nd & 1 when they had other options makes it a high risk call.

Did you see the picture posted above? At the point of decision and release, it really wasn't that tight a window.

 

[Uconn77Duke74]

 

[Adios]

That last Seahawks play is actually not that bad a call. Only problem was Butler read it perfectly and bumped the WR out. Butler was on fire.

Seahawks were getting plenty lucky. Game ended with the Patriots getting the last bit of good luck.