OT: Pats Signed Tebow

[Matt (Chicago)]

Hes better then Brady

maybe at some things, like praying and and running, but certainly not as a QB.

 

[61cygni]

Tebow at upback?

 

[StoweD210]

What has-been RB have they revived other than Corey Dillon?

Antowain Smith?

I don't remember him being highly thought of after Buffalo cut him loose.

 

[Scoe]

Antowain Smith?

I don't remember him being highly thought of after Buffalo cut him loose.

Smith was behind a good oline in NE, he wasn't much of anything after he left NE either. Dillon was never a has been in Cincinnati.

 

[Scoe]

maybe at some things, like praying and and running, but certainly not as a QB.

Tebow will be a the starter lol

 

[RS9999X]

Well you know the joke. Tebow can drop to his knee quicker than any QB in the NFL. Perfect showmanship and styling for the closing minutes against the Jets, Denver, and the Florida teams.

 

[champs99and04]

Somehow, someway....I think you're right.

The Jets had no clue what to do with him and it ruined their season, their offseason and perhaps Mark Sanchez's life.

Belichick will spend three seconds thinking about this and kill the NFL with Tebow.

lol. Yes, it was their inability to utilize a third string quarterback, and not the fact that they had Arena league-caliber skill players and one of the worst starting quarterbacks in the league, that ruined their season.

That wasn't even the funniest part of your post, either - Belichick "killling the NFL with Tebow" takes the cake there. He'll be a third string quarterback, who may occasionally play special teams and work in a limited capacity on offense...and that's if he makes the cut. Some of you act like Belichick is Christ himself, and that a quarterback with laughable throwing mechanics is suddenly going to terrify defensive coordinators because he's a Patriot. He may well be worth the money as an emergency quarterback, a utility player, and a practice body, but let's not get carried away here.

 

[champs99and04]

Totally right on the pocket passers. If you look at most of the title contenders, they're all pocket passers. Rodgers, Brady, Flacco, Brees, Peyton and Eli Manning. The RG3's and the Kaepernicks are more "flavor of the week" guys if you're looking to build a long term playoff perennial franchise. RG3 is already hurt. Kaepernick isn't built to take a beating.

Wilson, Kapernick, and Griffin are pocket passers too, they just have the ability to run, giving defenses another dynamic to account for. It keeps defenses off balance when you have the luxury of taking off for a first down with your feet when all your other options are covered. There's something to be said for protecting your body, but it isn't as if Brady or Manning would be lesser players if they could run a little bit. Andrew Luck is another guy who is a pure pocket passer but also possesses some speed, as are Roethlisberger and Rodgers. I don't think you understand how advantageous it is to be able to improvize when the play breaks down, as Wilson, Griffin, and Kapernick, and to some extent, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and Luck, are able to do.

 

[Deepster]

(i still dispute Kap is a running QB)

Kaepernick vs Green Bay (1/30/13) - 16 carries for 181 yds rushing.
Drew Brees in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 combined - 172 yds rushing

Kaepernick isn't anything close to a pocket passer.

 

[RS9999X]

The Patriots already may be making money on their investment. The team's pro shop was taking pre-orders for jerseys with his last name — and no number — on the back. Prices ranged from $69.95 to $99.95, with free shipping.

During practice, the QBs worked under the close scrutiny of offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, the head coach with the Denver Broncos in 2011 when Tebow enjoyed his greatest pro success.

 

[Fishy]

lol. Yes, it was their inability to utilize a third string quarterback, and not the fact that they had Arena league-caliber skill players and one of the worst starting quarterbacks in the league, that ruined their season.

Granted, you're a blithering idiot on your best day, but f---, son, look up hyperbole and then learn to recognize it.

 

[CAHUSKY]

Kaepernick vs Green Bay (1/30/13) - 16 carries for 181 yds rushing.
Drew Brees in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 combined - 172 yds rushing

Kaepernick isn't anything close to a pocket passer.

Again, youre missing the point. He is an excellent passer and was very successful throwing from the pocket and on the move. However, he also has other skills that allows him to do other things like set an NFL rushing record for QB's when the defense allows it like they did in the Green Bay game. That makes him more dangerous, not a liability

Your post also neglects to mention that while rushing for a record 181 yards he also had more passing yards then one of the all time great passers, Aaron Rodgers. Which is my overarching point. He is an excellent passer which makes him a deadly runner which makes him an even more dangerous passer.

Kaepernick: 17-31, 256 yards, 8.3 yards per pass, 1 interception

Rodgers: 26 - 39, 248 yards, 6.4 yards per pass, 1 interception



And, for a little support from NFL.com ................a recent comparison they did between Andrew Luck and Kap. This is just the section on pocket presence.

Pocket presence

There is no doubt about Luck's ability to thrive from the pocket. Scouts touted him as the most polished quarterback to enter the NFL since Peyton Manning, and his production last season did little to dispute that notion. Luck shattered the rookie record for passing yards while displaying exceptional poise and composure from the pocket. Hit unmercifully behind a leaky offensive line (41 sacks), Luck refused to flinch and repeatedly delivered accurate strikes under duress. Now, there is no disputing the fact that Luck's numbers were greatly affected by the constant pressure and harassment. He registered 23 turnovers as a rookie (18 interceptions and five lost fumbles), primarily due to defenders crashing the pocket.


When sufficiently protected, Luck can carve up a defense with surgical precision. He will work every area of the field to stretch the defense horizontally, while also taking enough shots down the field to keep defenders from squatting on short and intermediate routes. Additionally, Luck will relentlessly work between the hashes to take advantage of favorable matchups against linebackers in space -- a tactic that is habitually utilized by savvy veterans. The fact that Luck has already adopted it speaks volumes about his maturity as a pocket passer.
Kaepernick is a strong pocket passer, despite the perception that he is strictly a zone-read playmaker. He operates efficiently in a quick-rhythm passing game that features three-, five- and seven-step drops (or one-, three- and five-step drops from the shotgun). Reviewing the coaches film, I was amazed at his efficiency and effectiveness when directing the 49ers' passing game. Kaepernick frequently released the ball on time at the top of his drop, allowing the offense to develop a rhythm. Additionally, he works all areas of the field to keep opponents from suffocating the passing game with tight coverage on the perimeter. From delivering accurate strikes to Michael Crabtree and Mario Manningham on intermediate routes outside the numbers to launching deep balls to Randy Moss, Vernon Davis and Delanie Walker, Kaepernick fully strained opposing defenses last season. The second-year man took the reins from Alex Smith in Week 10 -- after Smith was knocked out of a game against the St. Louis Rams with a concussion -- and there is no question the 49ers' offense was more dynamic and explosive with Kaepernick at the helm.
The numbers validate Kaepernick's efficiency from the pocket. He compiled a passer rating of 98.3 on the strength of a 62.4 completion percentage and a 10:3 touchdown-to-interception ratio. Most importantly, Kaepernick averaged 8.32 yards per pass attempt, which led all starting quarterbacks in the NFL. Sure, that number is slightly inflated -- due to numerous play-action passes completed off of subtle zone-read action in the backfield -- but it is indicative of his ability to push the ball down the field with accurate throws.

 

[Scoe]

Again, youre missing the point. He is an excellent passer and was very successful throwing from the pocket and on the move. However, he also has other skills that allows him to do other things like set an NFL rushing record for QB's when the defense allows it like they did in the Green Bay game. That makes him more dangerous, not a liability

Your post also neglects to mention that while rushing for a record 181 yards he also had more passing yards then one of the all time great passers, Aaron Rodgers. Which is my overarching point. He is an excellent passer which makes him a deadly runner which makes him an even more dangerous passer.

Kaepernick: 17-31, 256 yards, 8.3 yards per pass, 1 interception

Rodgers: 26 - 39, 248 yards, 6.4 yards per pass, 1 interception

Kaepernick is dangerous because he also is around a top o-line, running game, has the best TE in the NFL, 2 great posession receivers, and a deep threat receiver.

 

[champs99and04]

Granted, you're a blithering idiot on your best day, but f---, son, look up hyperbole and then learn to recognize it.

A blithering idiot in your mind is anybody who doesn't regard your opinion as fact. I think you'd be better served continuing to make snarky jokes on conference realingment, because let's face it, all you do is embarass yourself when you try to talk sports.

 

[CAHUSKY]

Kaepernick is dangerous because he also is around a top o-line, running game, has the best TE in the NFL, 2 great posession receivers, and a deep threat receiver.

Alex Smith had all that and he wasn't dangerous.

 

[Scoe]

Alex Smith had all that and he wasn't dangerous.

Kaepernick is a dangerous qb with weapons, RG3 is a dangerous qb without weapons aside from maybe Morris. Kapernick is also better coached then RG3 dont assume I'm dissing Kaepernick because I'm not. Alex Smith is a system qb who is limited, basically like a Matt Cassell.

 

[uconnbill]

Where is this hatred you are talking about? Everyone is talking about his football ability. But that doesn't fit your war on Christianity shtick, does it?

His football ability is pretty damn good unless we ask you "What is he going to be, their 4th TE." We know you don't like him but the man brought Denver to the playoffs and a victory there playing quarterback not Tight End.
No it has to do with him being a winner, something many players are not in the NFL. You would realize that if you didn't bring up religion. As I didn't, but you did.

 

[uconnbill]

lol. Yes, it was their inability to utilize a third string quarterback, and not the fact that they had Arena league-caliber skill players and one of the worst starting quarterbacks in the league, that ruined their season.

That wasn't even the funniest part of your post, either - Belichick "killling the NFL with Tebow" takes the cake there. He'll be a third string quarterback, who may occasionally play special teams and work in a limited capacity on offense...and that's if he makes the cut. Some of you act like Belichick is Christ himself, and that a quarterback with laughable throwing mechanics is suddenly going to terrify defensive coordinators because he's a Patriot. He may well be worth the money as an emergency quarterback, a utility player, and a practice body, but let's not get carried away here.

Blame Tebow for the Jet's sucking. Really, I mean really. He will be used as he should in New England a change up and a multiple position player. He won't them and his attitude will only help them.

 

[CAHUSKY]

Kaepernick is a dangerous qb with weapons, RG3 is a dangerous qb without weapons aside from maybe Morris. Kapernick is also better coached then RG3 dont assume I'm dissing Kaepernick because I'm not. Alex Smith is a system qb who is limited, basically like a Matt Cassell.

Not sure what RG3 has do do with the discussion but.....ok.

 

[intlzncster]

Wilson, Kapernick, and Griffin are pocket passers too, they just have the ability to run, giving defenses another dynamic to account for. It keeps defenses off balance when you have the luxury of taking off for a first down with your feet when all your other options are covered.

By definition not a pocket passer. A pocket passer stays in the pocket at all costs.

There's something to be said for protecting your body, but it isn't as if Brady or Manning would be lesser players if they could run a little bit. Andrew Luck is another guy who is a pure pocket passer but also possesses some speed, as are Roethlisberger and Rodgers. I don't think you understand how advantageous it is to be able to improvize when the play breaks down, as Wilson, Griffin, and Kapernick, and to some extent, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and Luck, are able to do.

Actually, I think they might be. I wouldn't at all be surprised if they did not develop their beyond excellent pocket awareness if they had the ability to run. I'm confident Manning would not have. He used to have happy feet early in his career, and was torched for it in by (non-) analysts. If he had the ability to run, he might never have figured out how to stick in there for 2....3...4...5 seconds.

 

[intlzncster]

A blithering idiot in your mind is anybody who doesn't regard your opinion as fact. I think you'd be better served continuing to make snarky jokes on conference realingment, because let's face it, all you do is embarass yourself when you try to talk sports.

Huh? The original joke went whistling right over your head.

 

[Fishy]

Huh? The original joke went whistling right over your head.

Well, he's the dumbest guy in the room and the dumbest guy in the room rarely realizes that he's the dumbest guy in the room - it goes with the job description.

 

[Deepster]

He compiled a passer rating of 98.3 on the strength of a 62.4 completion percentage and a 10:3 touchdown-to-interception ratio.

I'm not missing anything. You continue to pimp the 10:3 TD to INT ratio, but that's so inflated by the 1 game against NE where he had 4 TD's and 1 INT. They clearly weren't ready for him (and everyone will be from this point forward) and that ratio for the other 9 games is 6:2. That's 6 TD passes over 36 quarters.

I'm not a chump. I realize you have a for him from a college connection...but he's just not a pocket passer.

 

[CAHUSKY]

I'm not missing anything. You continue to pimp the 10:3 TD to INT ratio, but that's so inflated by the 1 game against NE where he had 4 TD's and 1 INT. They clearly weren't ready for him (and everyone will be from this point forward) and that ratio for the other 9 games is 6:2. That's 6 TD passes over 36 quarters.

I'm not a chump. I realize you have a for him from a college connection...but he's just not a pocket passer.

Didn't insinuate you were a chump. Simply that you are underestimating Kap's ability as a passer. Attached the NFL.com analysis to support my position but I guess you didn't like his opinion either. You have to be impressed by his completion percentage and yards per completion. Hard to have those numbers and not be a superior passer. In any event, I have a for him not only because of a college and family connection but because he is the 49ers QB which gives me an even larger . Next year im going to have show up at the Cancer walk so we can settle this with an arm wrestling competition.

 

[Deepster]

Didn't insinuate you were a chump. Simply that you are underestimating Kap's ability as a passer. Attached the NFL.com analysis to support my position but I guess you didn't like his opinion either. You have to be impressed by his completion percentage and yards per completion. Hard to have those numbers and not be a superior passer. In any event, I have a for him not only because of a college and family connection but because he is the 49ers QB which gives me an even larger . Next year im going to have show up at the Cancer walk so we can settle this with an arm wrestling competition.

I am a huge NFL fan and have written a number of articles on fantasy football websites in the past. I know he "can" pass, but he's never going to be a guy that wins 3-4 games in January with his arm (for the most part). It will always come down to what he does with his legs in the long term. This thread has morphed into a discussion that says the guys who use ANY of their legs (Tebow, RGIII, McNabb, Culpepper, Cunningham, etc, etc.) stand a lesser chance than the really true pocket passers. And I agree.

 

[zyron]

His football ability is pretty damn good unless we ask you "What is he going to be, their 4th TE." We know you don't like him but the man brought Denver to the playoffs and a victory there playing quarterback not Tight End.
No it has to do with him being a winner, something many players are not in the NFL. You would realize that if you didn't bring up religion. As I didn't, but you did.

Oh please, your whole thing with your "Wow, the hatred for Tebow" comment is what all the Christians are saying. Especially ones who think there is a war on religion (Like you post on the Cesspool). Don't try to act like your comment wasn't the same.

The Pats only had 2 QBs on their roster last year, do you think Tebow is going to be the #2, because he isn't. So the other position most talked about for him has been TE or HB. He would be the 4th TE right now behind Ballard who they claimed off waivers from the Giants last year and stashed.

Yeah, but he is a winner, to you, because he loves Jesus.

 

[champs99and04]

By definition not a pocket passer. A pocket passer stays in the pocket at all costs.



Actually, I think they might be. I wouldn't at all be surprised if they did not develop their beyond excellent pocket awareness if they had the ability to run. I'm confident Manning would not have. He used to have happy feet early in his career, and was torched for it in by (non-) analysts. If he had the ability to run, he might never have figured out how to stick in there for 2....3...4...5 seconds.

Was Steve Young a pocket passer? How about John Elway? Those guys could carve defenses from the pocket with the best of them, but they also had the speed to make things happen with their feet. You can argue whether Kapernick, Wilson, and Griffin are pocket passers - regardless, I don't see anything wrong with being multi-dimensional in a day and age where defensive schemes are more complex and innovative than ever.

"Actually, I think they might be. I wouldn't at all be surprised if they did not develop their beyond excellent pocket awareness if they had the ability to run. I'm confident Manning would not have."

This is a fair point - in certain cases speed can work to a quarterbacks detriment because they're looking to escape at the first sign of danger. Mike Vick comes to mind here. There is a sensitive line to be balanced between evacuating the pocket only as a last resort and looking to run with regularity. Wilson, Kapernick, and Griffin are poised enough in the pocket that I'm confident they are developed enough as pocket passers to survive later in their careers with diminished speed. Griffin, for instance, was able to lead the Redskins to the playoffs on a faulty knee late in the season. Each of them made countless plays in the pocket, and under duress, throughout the season. Of course there will always be room in the NFL for pure pocket passers, but based on the passer ratings and completion percentages of the aforementioned players, coupled with their intelligence and work ethic, I think you'd be mistaken to dismiss them as flavor of the month.

 

[intlzncster]

Was Steve Young a pocket passer? How about John Elway? Those guys could carve defenses from the pocket with the best of them, but they also had the speed to make things happen with their feet. You can argue whether Kapernick, Wilson, and Griffin are pocket passers - regardless, I don't see anything wrong with being multi-dimensional in a day and age where defensive schemes are more complex and innovative than ever.

They didn't call Steve Young the Scrambler for nothing. Note that his career was cut short by concussion related injuries. I'd consider Elway is more an exception than a rule. He's also one of the best of all time. None of the kids have done squat yet.

Wilson, Kapernick, and Griffin are poised enough in the pocket that I'm confident they are developed enough as pocket passers to survive later in their careers with diminished speed. Griffin, for instance, was able to lead the Redskins to the playoffs on a faulty knee late in the season. Each of them made countless plays in the pocket, and under duress, throughout the season. Of course there will always be room in the NFL for pure pocket passers, but based on the passer ratings and completion percentages of the aforementioned players, coupled with their intelligence and work ethic, I think you'd be mistaken to dismiss them as flavor of the month.

Wilson, Kapernick, and Griffin are so young in their careers, it's difficult to make any claims as to how they'll turn out. They look good, but so did players like McNabb, Vick and Vince Young.

 

[CAHUSKY]

They didn't call Steve Young the Scrambler for nothing. Note that his career was cut short by concussion related injuries.

But let's also note that his career was defined not by injury but by two MVP awards, a Super Bowl title and induction in to the pro football hall if fame. Lets also not forget he has become Kaepernicks mentor. Please refer to my earlier post that showed "mobile" QB's missing no more starts during their careers than pocket passers before pointing out youngs issues with concussions. Clearly concussions are a far greater concern at other positions than quarterback.

PS. I've never heard the nickname Steve "the scrambler" Young
Pss. Young to Rice is the second most prolific QB/Reciever combo in NFL history, please don't tell me Young wasnt a great pocket passer because he ran too well

 

[RS9999X]

Josh McDaniels did well with Tebow in Denver and thinks he's teachable. Good enough for me. Get him some minutes in blow outs or due to injury and trade him for a Second or Third rounder. Hernandez did well with him in college. Lets see what they do....