OT- Pats Packers

[upstater]

jleves and superjohn certainly showed their colors in the last Patriots thread. I'd be embarrassed to ever post in another Patriots thread. EVER.

 

[ctchamps]

What the hell is going on in this thread??

Is this rhetoric or do you really want an explanation. Probably rhetoric but for those who are asking the same thing and don't have an answer I'll propose one.

This thread is similar to many threads. Some people love to argue. Some of those arguing need to be right. It's called fantasy debate! Why fantasy? Because people think their posts are fact when the fact is opinions are not facts no matter how detailed and supported they may be. Now if I'm correct then I just argued against myself.

We can also counter the argument this is fantasy debate if we make the case that every opinion is factual in some universe (a much better way than expressing an opinion came out of left field). Of course we would have to debate whether there are an infinite number of universes. A case could be made that the way many arguments are presented in this forum there is evidence that the alternative universe theory might indeed be an alternative universe fact. A footnote would have to be made that some ideas, such as this post, are so out there that the universe they will fit in is still a theory in concept. Long story short if an infinite number of universes exist we would have to accept every argument is factual albeit the basis for the fact might exist in some universe other than our own.

And that leads me to the final point. Debate me if you want. Argue that I'm wrong. I stand by what I've written. I'm a master of my universe, the one in my head, and that's all that matters. And that is the same for each and every one of us. We are the masters of our own universes. It's just that some of us feel the need to be the master of the universes in others.

 

[superjohn]

My whole point here is that numbers mean squat in the NFL, unlike baseball where you have individual matchups. Football is a true team sport.

The number of JAG running backs and offensive lineman that have passed through New England the last 14 years is long. Guys had their moment of glory and then did nothing once they were cut. Undrafteds, guys off the street. Mike Compton, Kenyatta Jones, Donald Thomas, Greg Robinson Randall, Stephen Neal, Grant Jennings, Joe Andruzzi, Ryan Wendell, Dan Connolly, Todd Rucci, JR Redmond, Antowain Smith, Legarette Blount, Jonas Gray, Brandon Bolden, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Laurence Maroney, etc. None of these guys did a single thing for any other team in the NFL. And there were countless more. In 14 years, the Patriots drafted 4 lineman high. Matt Light, Nate Solder, Logan Mankins, and Vollmer. That's it. And it's not like they found real talent off the street. Most of these guys were cut and then didn't play another meaningful down in the NFL.

There's one reason for all of this, and it's Brady's fast release.

This is one of the most unintentionally funny posts in boneyard history. Congrats, you keep stepping it up in this thread.

 

[upstater]

This is one of the most unintentionally funny posts in boneyard history. Congrats, you keep stepping it up in this thread.

Juwuan Thompson, CJ Anderson, Mr. Gray with the Patriots (guy was an undrafted FA who was cut by 4 teams). Deny it all you want, Brady and Manning MAKE their RBs look great. Who the hell is Juwuan Thompson?

 

[mauconnfan]

Juwuan Thompson, CJ Anderson, Mr. Gray with the Patriots (guy was an undrafted FA who was cut by 4 teams). Deny it all you want, Brady and Manning MAKE their RBs look great. Who the hell is Juwuan Thompson?

So do HUGE gaping holes created by the offensive line

 

[upstater]

So do HUGE gaping holes created by the offensive line

The formula must be to grab OL off the UDFA scrapheap then and create huge holes.

I don't like that formula personally. I prefer having a great QB with the defense in itssub package, and 6 DBs on the field. Then I'll run on them with my never-heard-of-before RB.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

This is one of the most unintentionally funny posts in boneyard history. Congrats, you keep stepping it up in this thread.

Hard to argue with a well reasoned response like that. The Pats as an organization have a pretty decent track record of making pretty ordinary guys look great.

 

[mauconnfan]

The formula must be to grab OL off the UDFA scrapheap then and create huge holes.

I don't like that formula personally. I prefer having a great QB with the defense in itssub package, and 6 DBs on the field. Then I'll run on them with my never-heard-of-before RB.

True but no QB is any good without stopping the pass rush and no run game is good without holes and space. They may have been patched together but someone then deserves the credit for that. That would be Bill and/or management, they've been great for the most part for 7-8 weeks.

 

[upstater]

True but no QB is any good without stopping the pass rush and no run game is good without holes and space. They may have been patched together but someone then deserves the credit for that. That would be Bill and/or management, they've been great for the most part for 7-8 weeks.

It's been like this for 14 years. Heck, this year there's a totally new OL coach. A lot of people deserve credit for what they do. Nonetheless, there's been 14 years of scrap heap pickups year-after-year. A quick trigger QB who knows his way around the pocket will make many a lineman look good. Logan Mankins is grading out very poorly in Tampa.

If Donald Thomas ever donates some of that multiple million dollar contract to UConn, he should probably thank Brady more than Belichick.

 

[mauconnfan]

It's been like this for 14 years. Heck, this year there's a totally new OL coach. A lot of people deserve credit for what they do. Nonetheless, there's been 14 years of scrap heap pickups year-after-year. A quick trigger QB who knows his way around the pocket will make many a lineman look good. Logan Mankins is grading out very poorly in Tampa.

If Donald Thomas ever donates some of that multiple million dollar contract to UConn, he should probably thank Brady more than Belichick.

God you guys and Brady? Yikes, he's great but he's not the sole reason and never will be. I know when he sucked early most of you wanted him gone, retire and why? The line sucked!!

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I know when he sucked early most of you wanted him gone, retire and why?

I don't think this is even remotely true. The only people saying he was done were football gurus like Superjohn.

 

[upstater]

God you guys and Brady? Yikes, he's great but he's not the sole reason and never will be. I know when he sucked early most of you wanted him gone, retire and why? The line sucked!!

There's actually a thread on here around that time. I'm on the record in that thread.

The line did suck. They were all undrafted FAs at new positions. Wendell the old C was at RG. Connolly the old LG took Mankins spot at LG. They had a godawful rookie called Devey who isn't even on the 53 anymore. And they brought up their 5th rd rookie to play C.

 

[mauconnfan]

I don't think this is even remotely true. The only people saying he was done were football gurus like Superjohn.

I live in Western Mass Crack man, I promise you I heard it all. Not saying all or upstater for sure, but there were a lot. Hey the line gelling and Gronk being healthy may point to how much better Brady is today compared to early in the year. I will say him playing better and Gronk and LaFell added to the ever consistent Edelman certainly makes the run game better. But you have to admit Blount upon his return is running through some holes. By the way, he's a fn load of a runner why do teams let him go?

 

[upstater]

I live in Western Mass Crack man, I promise you I heard it all. Not saying all or upstater for sure, but there were a lot. Hey the line gelling and Gronk being healthy may point to how much better Brady is today compared to early in the year. I will say him playing better and Gronk and LaFell added to the ever consistent Edelman certainly makes the run game better. But you have to admit Blount upon his return is running through some holes. By the way, he's a fn load of a runner why do teams let him go?

I personally don't like Blount. I like Gray a whole lot more. Too much dancing behind the line for me from Blount. Yeah, he'll break some big runs. But those -1 and -2 runs are drive killers. Give me +4 and Gray instead.

I think this is why teams let Blount go.

 

[superjohn]

Hard to argue with a well reasoned response like that. The Pats as an organization have a pretty decent track record of making pretty ordinary guys look great.

He said numbers mean nothing in the NFL and the reason for all the Patriots success is Tom Brady's quick release, I find this to be a ridiculous conclusion, I guess you agree with him Can you try adding anything of substance to a thread while you are stalking all of my posts? As I'm typing this I see you threw my name out there again a couple of posts down, you're getting really creepy dude. Constantly being questioned by the guy who thinks Yale has more baketball talent than UConn is a badge of honor.

 

[upstater]

He said numbers mean nothing in the NFL and the reason for all the Patriots success is Tom Brady's quick release, I find this to be a ridiculous conclusion, I guess you agree with him Can you try adding anything of substance to a thread while you are stalking all of my posts? As I'm typing this I see you threw my name out there again a couple of posts down, you're getting really creepy dude. Constantly being questioned by the guy who thinks Yale has more baketball talent than UConn is a badge of honor.

Some numbers mean a lot for sure. I cited them. Scoring is a number I pay attention to. That's my point, at the end of the day.

 

[jleves]

jleves and superjohn certainly showed their colors in the last Patriots thread. I'd be embarrassed to ever post in another Patriots thread. EVER.

Hey - I clearly owned up to being wrong in that thread. I'm far from a Patriot hater - they're one of my favorite teams in the AFC.

 

[upstater]

He said numbers mean nothing in the NFL and the reason for all the Patriots success is Tom Brady's quick release, I find this to be a ridiculous conclusion, I guess you agree with him Can you try adding anything of substance to a thread while you are stalking all of my posts? As I'm typing this I see you threw my name out there again a couple of posts down, you're getting really creepy dude. Constantly being questioned by the guy who thinks Yale has more baketball talent than UConn is a badge of honor.

One: I didn't say numbers mean nothing. I said passing rating, and passing yards, and a whole host of fanboy fantasy stats, mean nothing. The numbers that mean something (everything! actually) are on the scoreboard.

And, about the Patriots running game, I didn't say only Brady has that impact. Manning does too! Look at the Denver RBs for heaven's sake. You can't explain that success. I watched the Bills staunch front line this weekend get railroaded, and all because of the sub package they were in. Those gaping holes happened courtesy of the Bills defending the pass the whole game. Marcell Dareus was in 17 of 68 defensive snaps. That's your top run stuffer right there!!!!!

You don't get it.

 

[upstater]

Hey - I clearly owned up to being wrong in that thread. I'm far from a Patriot hater - they're one of my favorite teams in the AFC.

And he started this one with the same BS about weak arm and system QB.

 

[jleves]

And he started this one with the same BS about weak arm and system QB.

Wasn't me - never said a thing about a weak arm or a system QB - in fact, I only said there are alternative explanations for the stats you quote that says Brady is the better QB.

If you want to call people out and tell them they are wrong, at least get the right person.

 

[upstater]

Wasn't me - never said a thing about a weak arm or a system QB - in fact, I only said there are alternative explanations for the stats you quote that says Brady is the better QB.

If you want to call people out and tell them they are wrong, at least get the right person.

I was talking about superjohn

Also, never said Brady was the better QB. I said Brady had the better year in 2012-2013 as a way of illustrating that passer rating leaves out 40% of the game.

 

[superjohn]

One: I didn't say numbers mean nothing. I said passing rating, and passing yards, and a whole host of fanboy fantasy stats, mean nothing. The numbers that mean something (everything! actually) are on the scoreboard.

And, about the Patriots running game, I didn't say only Brady has that impact. Manning does too! Look at the Denver RBs for heaven's sake. You can't explain that success. I watched the Bills staunch front line this weekend get railroaded, and all because of the sub package they were in. Those gaping holes happened courtesy of the Bills defending the pass the whole game. Marcell Dareus was in 17 of 68 defensive snaps. That's your top run stuffer right there!!!!!

You don't get it.

"One: I didn't say numbers mean nothing."
"My whole point here is that numbers mean squat in the NFL, unlike baseball where you have individual matchups. Football is a true team sport." These are both your statements, I'm not making things up.

 

[upstater]

"One: I didn't say numbers mean nothing."
"My whole point here is that numbers mean squat in the NFL, unlike baseball where you have individual matchups. Football is a true team sport." These are both your statements, I'm not making things up.

Well, excuseeeee me. Yeah, I did say it. Sorry (damn ital.)

You know what I mean. Stats.

heck, you're replying to this post where I even clarified what I meant with this: "I said passing rating, and passing yards, and a whole host of fanboy fantasy stats, mean nothing."

There are some numbers that mean something. Mean a lot actually. Passer rating? No. Unless you're Ken O'Brien. I'll take red zone efficiency, # of turnovers and 3rd down conversions as meaningful. And my whole point was that point scored is the most meaningful.

Still waiting to hear your theory on running backs no one has ever heard of running wild in the last few weeks.

 

[intlzncster]

True but no QB is any good without stopping the pass rush and no run game is good without holes and space. They may have been patched together but someone then deserves the credit for that. That would be Bill and/or management, they've been great for the most part for 7-8 weeks.

Unless you have Barry Sanders.

 

[intlzncster]

There's actually a thread on here around that time. I'm on the record in that thread.

The line did suck. They were all undrafted FAs at new positions. Wendell the old C was at RG. Connolly the old LG took Mankins spot at LG. They had a godawful rookie called Devey who isn't even on the 53 anymore. And they brought up their 5th rd rookie to play C.

The line actually became good when they put Connolly at LG, Wendell at RG, and Stork (4th round, not 5th) at center. They originally played a bunch of ? marks (Devey, et al); Stork was hurt. I think they had Connolly at center at one point. Marcus Cannon at guard (when he's clearly a tackle). Add in the Logan Mankins vacuum, and it was a clusterf_ck. Putting Connolly and Wendell at guard gave them the experience they needed to start Stork (the only natural center).

Not the best collection of talent out there, but they've gotten the job done. Last 6 games (the iron of the schedule), they've only allowed 4 sacks.

And everybody got better when Gronk returned to form.

 

[intlzncster]

One: I didn't say numbers mean nothing. I said passing rating, and passing yards, and a whole host of fanboy fantasy stats, mean nothing. The numbers that mean something (everything! actually) are on the scoreboard.

And, about the Patriots running game, I didn't say only Brady has that impact. Manning does too! Look at the Denver RBs for heaven's sake. You can't explain that success. I watched the Bills staunch front line this weekend get railroaded, and all because of the sub package they were in. Those gaping holes happened courtesy of the Bills defending the pass the whole game. Marcell Dareus was in 17 of 68 defensive snaps. That's your top run stuffer right there!!!!!

I often hear Belichick and Bruschi say that the only numbers that matter are 'Points Scored' and 'Points Allowed', as far as offenses and defenses are concerned. Everything else is window dressing.