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OT: Pats-Colts

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Deepster said:
I don't argue any of your hypotheses as "possible"....but tell me how the percentages change when you have 24 balls in the "control group" and 0 of 12 are impacted for the Colts and 12 of 12 are impacted for the Patriots.
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There is no control group, a control group by definition is another set. A control group would use a set of procedures that are documented. We do not know how the balls are inflated on either side or if there is published methodology to that procedure. You are dealing with two separate populations that undergo unknown procedures.
One or all of those explanations accounts for the difference.
Same faulty gauge used to measure balls at outset.
If one team uses a motorized compressor or tank where the water vapor is not drained or removed. Other uses a hand pump. Or hand pump was left outdoors.
Different procedures for inflation - over-inflate then release; inflate to maximum; inflate to minimum.
 
Deepster said:
Think hard about it? I don't have to.

UConn did cheat. Jim Calhoun was a cheater. He was caught. More than once. And we were penalized by the NCAA.

When I look over his career here? I'll live with that. My non-UConn friends call him a cheater all the time and you know what? I have NEVER said "No, he's not!!!" I acknowledge that UConn/Calhoun have been caught doing things they shouldn't and.....oh, well. I'll still take the titles and all the good he did here.

Get me one Pats fan willing to say the same and look at this deflate controversy the same way.
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So every time someone leveled another ridiculous cheater claim at Jim Calhoun, we should have just assumed it's true because he had cheated in the past? I hope to God you're never on my jury, sheesh.
 
John said:
So every time someone leveled another ridiculous cheater claim at Jim Calhoun, we should have just assumed it's true because he had cheated in the past? I hope to God you're never on my jury, sheesh.
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This is like comparing a murder to someone who texted "I am going to kill that SOB"
 
All the balls before game - fine.

Half the balls at halftime - fine.

The other half of the balls at halftime - two pounds under fine.

All the balls that was not fine were from one sideline.

I have no idea how Jim Calhoun entered the conversation, but given the ever-changing denials and then rationalizations I've seen from Pats' fans thus far, I probably shouldn't be too surprised.
 
Fishy said:
I have no idea how Jim Calhoun entered the conversation, but given the ever-changing denials and then rationalizations I've seen from Pats' fans thus far, I probably shouldn't be too surprised.
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It's in the context of not rushing to judgement every time an allegation of cheating is made, something UConn fans lived for a long time. .....
 
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John said:
So every time someone leveled another ridiculous cheater claim at Jim Calhoun, we should have just assumed it's true because he had cheated in the past? I hope to God you're never on my jury, sheesh.
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I wouldn't say every time. But when the situation looks as bad as 12 of 12 footballs all significantly under the limit with 0 of 12 effected across the field? I'd have a very hard time arguing against that with a straight face like the Pats fan in this thread.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.
 
Check out this guy: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...spygate-amid-new-england-patriots-controversy

They are coming out of the woodwork. Carolina GM citing Spygate in the SuperBowl.

The Patriots hadn't played Carolina in years before the game, and the last time they played, Seifert was the coach!!

And people here have the gall to tell us that this isn't about being haters!

This is no different than Mike Gottfried at Alabama crying about UConn's win in 2004. Oddly, the two games happened in the same exact year.
 
Fishy said:
All the balls before game - fine.

Half the balls at halftime - fine.

The other half of the balls at halftime - two pounds under fine.

All the balls that was not fine were from one sideline.

I have no idea how Jim Calhoun entered the conversation, but given the ever-changing denials and then rationalizations I've seen from Pats' fans thus far, I probably shouldn't be too surprised.
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How do you know this? Because the NFL says so? Because the ref says so? What makes them anymore infallible than the Patriots (in the eyes of Patriots fans)? What if the ref is covering his ? The possibility that the crew of officials (who don't work with each other during the regular season) didn't do a complete job when approving the balls is a positive non-zero percentage.

According to Adam Schefter on WEEI this morning, the investigation is focused on chain of custody and procedure right now (How they haven't interviewed Brady yet blows my mind). Refs have a responsibility to be impartial, but they are human too. Do you think they would be forthright in admitting that or at least as forthright as you expect of Belichick or Brady? I don't.

Perhaps the NFL exonerated the refs a little too quickly, no? Mike Florio raised the possibility that the NFL wanted to sting the Patriots and knowing allowed them to play the 1st half with under inflated balls. Who lacks integrity in this case? What if the Refs approved underinflated balls? What if they knew prior to the game and they didn't correct them like they apparently do to Aaron Rodgers' over inflated balls. Who lacks integrity in this case?
 
Husky25 said:
How do you know this? Because the NFL says so? Because the ref says so? What makes them anymore infallible than the Patriots (in the eyes of Patriots fans)? What if the ref is covering his ? The possibility that the crew of officials (who don't work with each other during the regular season) didn't do a complete job when approving the balls is a positive non-zero percentage.

According to Adam Schefter on WEEI this morning, the investigation is focused on chain of custody and procedure right now (How they haven't interviewed Brady yet blows my mind). Refs have a responsibility to be impartial, but they are human too. Do you think they would be forthright in admitting that or at least as forthright as you expect of Belichick or Brady? I don't.

Perhaps the NFL exonerated the refs a little too quickly, no? Mike Florio raised the possibility that the NFL wanted to sting the Patriots and knowing allowed them to play the 1st half with under inflated balls. Who lacks integrity in this case? What if the Refs approved underinflated balls? What if they knew prior to the game and they didn't correct them like they apparently do to Aaron Rodgers' over inflated balls. Who lacks integrity in this case?
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And 9-11 was an inside job.
 
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Hard for me to believe that an equipment manager deflated team balls without the approval of the starting QB.
 
Husky25 said:
How do you know this? Because the NFL says so? Because the ref says so? What makes them anymore infallible than the Patriots (in the eyes of Patriots fans)? What if the ref is covering his ? The possibility that the crew of officials (who don't work with each other during the regular season) didn't do a complete job when approving the balls is a positive non-zero percentage.

According to Adam Schefter on WEEI this morning, the investigation is focused on chain of custody and procedure right now (How they haven't interviewed Brady yet blows my mind). Refs have a responsibility to be impartial, but they are human too. Do you think they would be forthright in admitting that or at least as forthright as you expect of Belichick or Brady? I don't.

Perhaps the NFL exonerated the refs a little too quickly, no? Mike Florio raised the possibility that the NFL wanted to sting the Patriots and knowing allowed them to play the 1st half with under inflated balls. Who lacks integrity in this case? What if the Refs approved underinflated balls? What if they knew prior to the game and they didn't correct them like they apparently do to Aaron Rodgers' over inflated balls. Who lacks integrity in this case?
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Rumors starting to circulate that the initial report from Mortenson of 2lbs was inaccurate. Another rumor that the refs felt the balls only and never put a gauge on them, Colts also backtracking with the guy who intercepted the ball now saying he never said a damn thing about the ball. what a crap show this is.
 
I guess a unicorn could have deflated those footballs with the tip of his horn.
 
Danzz said:
Hard for me to believe that an equipment manager deflated team balls without the approval of the starting QB.
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I just read an NFL source claims they gave the balls to the sideline attendants one minute before the game.

And no one was watching what happened afterward?

And there are no cameras?
 
FriarJ said:
Rumors starting to circulate that the initial report from Mortenson of 2lbs was inaccurate. Another rumor that the refs felt the balls only and never put a gauge on them, Colts also backtracking with the guy who intercepted the ball now saying he never said a damn thing about the ball. what a crap show this is.
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Can you tell me where you read that?

The only person to write that so far about the 2 PSI is Tom Curran, who, although he was calling for swift punishment on Belichick, is actually quite close to the Patriots.
 
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superjohn said:
And 9-11 was an inside job.
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Where the H did you get that?

I'm not say the Patriots didn't knowingly submit under inflated balls, but I'm also saying there is a possibility the Refs didn't carry out their control procedures 100% either. If they did catch them, why didn't they pump the balls up? If either one of these two things happened, If there was a breakdown in controls, do you expect the arbiters of the game to admit it they screwed up? Why?

I think Brady likes a softer ball and submitted them to the ref, I think the officials as a whole don't do as thourough of a job as they let on, and I think the NFL had no choice but to prematurely buy what the officials were selling in order to protect the integrity of the game.

By the way, nice job in sh_tting on the graves of over 3,000 innocent people for no reason. This is football for crying out loud.
 
Husky25 said:
Where the H did you get that?

I'm not say the Patriots didn't knowingly submit under inflated balls, but I'm also saying there is a possibility the Refs didn't carry out their control procedures 100% either. If they did catch them, why didn't they pump the balls up? If either one of these two things happened, If there was a breakdown in controls, do you expect the arbiters of the game to admit it they screwed up? Why?

I think Brady likes a softer ball and submitted them to the ref, I think the officials as a whole don't do as thourough of a job as they let on, and I think the NFL had no choice but to prematurely buy what the officials were selling in order to protect the integrity of the game.

By the way, nice job in sh_tting on the graves of over 3,000 innocent people for no reason. This is football for crying out loud.
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Sh_tting on the graves of 3,000 innocent people? It was a joke Sparky, I was down there for 9-11 and lost a friend so take it easy. It seems like you are trying to transfer blame to the NFL and that seems a little too inside job/conspiracy nonsense to me.
 
Wow, might as well lock this sucker. NFL just said it is bringing in forensic expert investigation teams to pour over material evidence, camera footage, videos, etc.

I presume they can find something if someone tampered between kickoff and the Jackson interception.

This will take weeks, not days.

They didn't give exact measurements, just said the balls were underinflated.
 
Husky25 said:
Where the H did you get that?

I'm not say the Patriots didn't knowingly submit under inflated balls, but I'm also saying there is a possibility the Refs didn't carry out their control procedures 100% either. If they did catch them, why didn't they pump the balls up? If either one of these two things happened, If there was a breakdown in controls, do you expect the arbiters of the game to admit it they screwed up? Why?

I think Brady likes a softer ball and submitted them to the ref, I think the officials as a whole don't do as thourough of a job as they let on, and I think the NFL had no choice but to prematurely buy what the officials were selling in order to protect the integrity of the game.

By the way, nice job in sh_tting on the graves of over 3,000 innocent people for no reason. This is football for crying out loud.
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Now Pats fans are really pulling out the big guns. Fishy did no such thing. Wow, can you Pats fans get any more ridiculous with your ways of trying to defend them. If Brady and Belicheck told you guys to bend over, you would do so happily.
 
superjohn said:
Sh_tting on the graves of 3,000 innocent people? It was a joke Sparky, I was down there for 9-11 and lost a friend so take it easy. It seems like you are trying to transfer blame to the NFL and that seems a little too inside job/conspiracy nonsense to me.
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Well as long as you lost a friend, it makes your "joke" less tasteless...My bad... :rolleyes:

zyron said:
Now Pats fans are really pulling out the big guns. Fishy did no such thing. Wow, can you Pats fans get any more ridiculous with your ways of trying to defend them. If Brady and Belicheck told you guys to bend over, you would do so happily.
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1st. I am not a Patriots fan. I am a Redskins fan. On the other hand, living in New England it is impossible not to get swept up in this "controversy." It is all that anyone is talking about and when I say anyone, it is the first story on every news program, let alone sports program, from Channel 8 to CNN.

2nd. My response wasn't directed to Fishy, but don't let that get in your way. I am simply raising other possibilities than Brady and/or Belichick are absolutely lying just because the Patriots were punished for Spy----. The prosecution must love you on their juries. Apparently you think cops can do no wrong. I'm a bit more cynical.
 
upstater said:
I just read an NFL source claims they gave the balls to the sideline attendants one minute before the game.

And no one was watching what happened afterward?

And there are no cameras?
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Exactly. Pictures or it didn't happen.

Look, if Tom Brady stands in front of a roomful of reporters awkwardly smiling like he just ate someone's pet parakeet, while wearing a wool hat with a pom-pom on top, and says he doesn't know anything about it, case dismissed as far as I'm concerned. He's a good egg with a very lovely wife.
 
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Danzz said:
Hard for me to believe that an equipment manager deflated team balls without the approval of the starting QB.
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Off course the only person alleging that is Brunell who wasn't there, has no first hand knowlege and thus is pretty much talking out his butt. But apparently he started 151 games in the NFL and was a vigorous ball rubber so....
 
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Husky25 said:
1st. I am not a Patriots fan. I am a Redskins fan. On the other hand, living in New England it is impossible not to get swept up in this "controversy." It is all that anyone is talking about and when I say anyone, it is the first story on every news program, let alone sports program, from Channel 8 to CNN.

2nd. My response wasn't directed to Fishy, but don't let that get in your way. I am simply raising other possibilities than Brady and/or Belichick are absolutely lying just because the Patriots were punished for Spy----. The prosecution must love you on their juries. Apparently you think cops can do no wrong. I'm a bit more cynical.
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Meant Superjohn. Brady said in the past he likes to play with an underinflated ball, he likes when Gronk spikes it and deflates it. No one on the Pats side would mess with Brady's ball without him knowing.
 
Husky25 said:
Well as long as you lost a friend, it makes your "joke" less tasteless...My bad... :rolleyes:



1st. I am not a Patriots fan. I am a Redskins fan. On the other hand, living in New England it is impossible not to get swept up in this "controversy." It is all that anyone is talking about and when I say anyone, it is the first story on every news program, let alone sports program, from Channel 8 to CNN.

2nd. My response wasn't directed to Fishy, but don't let that get in your way. I am simply raising other possibilities than Brady and/or Belichick are absolutely lying just because the Patriots were punished for Spy----. The prosecution must love you on their juries. Apparently you think cops can do no wrong. I'm a bit more cynical.
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You can , the joke was about the 9-11 truthers not the horrible attack, don't be an idiot. If you want stupid look towards Brady bringing up Isis in his press conference.
 
I think the rush to judgement, here and elsewhere is based on the anticipation that when the dust settles, there will be no sanctions. Thus the need for sanctimony now, because after the NFL says no evidence of linking Bellichick, Brady or the Pats to tampering, they'll be exposed as whiners if they don't let it go.
 
CL82 said:
Off course the only person alleging that is Brunell who wasn't there, has no first hand knowlege and thus is pretty much talking out his butt. But apparently he started 151 games so....
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Pretty much everyone is saying what Brunell said, there is no chance that a ballboy/equipment manager went rogue and deflated the footballs.
 
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