OT: Pats-Colts

[CL82]

Wow this thread gets more comical by the reply. Am I biased, hell yeah hate the Pats and it's easy to see why - read the replies. I live around these whacko's! LOL

Here's the problem, I hate them so I have a bias but I can admit I do. They love them but can't admit anything, instead all of you continue to deflect any questions that will lead you to admitting the truth. Not one fan has stepped up and said what should be said:
"Ok they screwed around with the balsl but shouldn't have. Made no difference we kicked their butts and we will do the same to the Seahawks next Sunday with all the balls inflated to whatever spec's are required. Then what will be the complaint?"

But instead they act as expected, almighty. Just like Papi - "prove it to me, they never proved it with him like they did with ARod"

Just, for the most part, a very arrogant group of fans who live on their own little island since the successes began in the 90's. I admit, the Seahawks can't beat them bad enough for my liking!Now more than ever

Wow Mau you sound like you are sure of a whole lot of unproven guilt. Good for you.

 

[John]

This is also very ridiculous. The Jags and the Vikings haven't won anything and aren't ever in the payoffs so why then would they? Man you guys, give it up you'r becoming more and more obnoxious with the more darts you throw.

you haven't heard of due process? Jeez, I'm not even a Pats fan and I'll give them that.

 

[upstater]

“One complication with the pressure units that we usually use, in this case PSI (Pressure per Square Inch) is that we are measuring the pressure above the atmospheric pressure,” Schmaltz said. “Air at a fixed volume- and I assume the size of a football stays pretty much the same whether it has a PSI of 13 or 11- if the size stays the same, and you change the temperature of the air, the pressure inside the football changes as well.”

The key question, as outlined by Schmaltz, is where the balls were tested prior to the game. If the balls were tested indoors, where the temperature was likely above the 50 degree temperature outdoors Sunday, then the pressure inside the ball would drop once the ball is moved outdoors and begins to cool off.

“If they had inflated the balls inside the building and put it to the minimum amount, and then brought it outside to temperatures that were about 30 degrees lower, that would drop the PSI by between 1 and 2,” Schmaltz explained.

According to Schmaltz, once the temperature of the air inside the ball drops to the temperature of the air outside the ball, the PSI would be changed. Schmaltz estimated that it would take no more than 30 minutes for the temperature of the air inside the ball to acclimate to the temperature of the air outside.

 

[upstater]

This is also very ridiculous. The Jags and the Vikings haven't won anything and aren't ever in the payoffs so why then would they? Man you guys, give it up you'r becoming more and more obnoxious with the more darts you throw.

What are you talking about? Why would they what? Are you saying cheating is OK during the regular season but not the postseason?

 

[upstater]

you haven't heard of due process? Jeez, I'm not even a Pats fan and I'll give them that.

This may be one area where I agree with Mau. This is sports and the NFL. Anyone can say anything they want (Brady said that too), but the key is, Goodell can do whatever the hell he wants. No due process.

 

[John]

 

[Deepster]

Nothing to do with logic, everything to do with ingrained bias.
Off the top of my head:

• Faulty pressure gauge - Should be for all the footballs.
  
• Differences water vapor content in gas used to inflate - Should be for all the footballs.
  
• Differences in inflation procedure - Should be for all the footballs.
  
• There was no difference - the narrative provided so far is inaccurate.

I worked QA for many years, in science or engineering for 3 times that period. I can cite numerous examples where anomalous results occurred as a result of different procedures, different materials, or faulty test equipment. Until the NFL come out and says something substantial, all you are doing is speculation based on internal bias.

I don't argue any of your hypotheses as "possible"....but tell me how the percentages change when you have 24 balls in the "control group" and 0 of 12 are impacted for the Colts and 12 of 12 are impacted for the Patriots.

 

[Deepster]

It feels witch hunty to me. If this were another team, say the Vikings or Jaguars (ie. losers) then there would not be this rush to judgement. But because the Patriots are an organization that's cheated in the past, there's a rush to judgement by irrational fans of other clubs. I think people need to just slow down and let the process finish, and check their bias at the door.

Fixed.

 

[CL82]

I wrote the following in another thread. It is certainly applicable here as well:

The NFL was too quick in exonerating the refs, but imagine the integrity of the game charges if it came out that the refs didn't check the pressure and there was an incongruity between the pressure gauges? I consider the refs in this case to play the part of a police officer in a criminal case. I have been voir dired twice in my life and in both cases they first question the prosecuting attorney asked me is if I believe cops can make mistakes or always tell the truth. Obviously the answer is yes and no to those questions, respectively. They are human. So are referees. But what's in it for them to lie? It's not to set up the Patriots per se, but it's to deflect blame for not doing their job entirely. The officials are "All-Star" crews who don't work together in the regular season. It is just as possible for something to fall through the cracks (probably more) as it is for a rogue ball boy to stick a pin in the ball.

I also think there is a chance that when Peter King reported that the NFL was appalled earlier in the week, they could have been referring to the whistleblower. There is a possibility the NFL thinks this is akin to a baseball player rubbing out the back line of the batters box to get 4 additional inches to see the ball and make a decision to swing. It's a largely unenforced rule and an unenforced rule is no rule. Now the NFL is are retroactively trying to piece together their defense. I think the reason the NFL hasn't made anything officially public is because at the end of the day, the burden of proof is on the league and the evidence is far too circumstantial to formally punish the Patriots.

"voir dired" I can't hear that phrase without thinking about "My Cousin Vinny."

 

[John]

Fixed.

So a person, club, organization, etc cannot be rehabilitated? Once a crook always a crook? As UConn fans, I think we need to think very hard about that, seems to me we have/had the same reputation as the Patriots - UNLV of the East, etc.

 

[upstater]

I don't argue any of your hypotheses as "possible"....but tell me how the percentages change when you have 24 balls in the "control group" and 0 of 12 are impacted for the Colts and 12 of 12 are impacted for the Patriots.

13.5 - 1 = 12.5
12.5 - 1 = 11.5

Or refs didn't check

 

[CL82]

So a person, club, organization, etc cannot be rehabilitated? Once a crook always a crook? As UConn fans, I think we need to think very hard about that, seems to me we have/had the same reputation as the Patriots - UNLV of the East, etc.

I wouldn't concede that crook label quite so easily.

 

[upstater]

So a person, club, organization, etc cannot be rehabilitated? Once a crook always a crook? As UConn fans, I think we need to think very hard about that, seems to me we have/had the same reputation as the Patriots - UNLV of the East, etc.

I'm starting to think that the reason the Patriots have won more games than anyone in the last 15 years isn't because of Belichick's brilliance, but because the NFL is filled with stupid idiots, and that idiocy is matched only by the people who cover them in the media.

 

[Deepster]

So a person, club, organization, etc cannot be rehabilitated? Once a crook always a crook? As UConn fans, I think we need to think very hard about that, seems to me we have/had the same reputation as the Patriots - UNLV of the East, etc.

Think hard about it? I don't have to.

UConn did cheat. Jim Calhoun was a cheater. He was caught. More than once. And we were penalized by the NCAA.

When I look over his career here? I'll live with that. My non-UConn friends call him a cheater all the time and you know what? I have NEVER said "No, he's not!!!" I acknowledge that UConn/Calhoun have been caught doing things they shouldn't and.....oh, well. I'll still take the titles and all the good he did here.

Get me one Pats fan willing to say the same and look at this deflate controversy the same way.

 

[Dave Carlson]

When Tom Brady took off his helmet and shook out his hair, the simultaneous gasps from the ladies (and some of the gentlemen) in the crowd sucked some air right out of those balls. Happens every game. That's just science, people. Don't you believe in science?

 

[boba]

I don't argue any of your hypotheses as "possible"....but tell me how the percentages change when you have 24 balls in the "control group" and 0 of 12 are impacted for the Colts and 12 of 12 are impacted for the Patriots.

There is no control group, a control group by definition is another set. A control group would use a set of procedures that are documented. We do not know how the balls are inflated on either side or if there is published methodology to that procedure. You are dealing with two separate populations that undergo unknown procedures.
One or all of those explanations accounts for the difference.
Same faulty gauge used to measure balls at outset.
If one team uses a motorized compressor or tank where the water vapor is not drained or removed. Other uses a hand pump. Or hand pump was left outdoors.
Different procedures for inflation - over-inflate then release; inflate to maximum; inflate to minimum.

 

[John]

Think hard about it? I don't have to.

UConn did cheat. Jim Calhoun was a cheater. He was caught. More than once. And we were penalized by the NCAA.

When I look over his career here? I'll live with that. My non-UConn friends call him a cheater all the time and you know what? I have NEVER said "No, he's not!!!" I acknowledge that UConn/Calhoun have been caught doing things they shouldn't and.....oh, well. I'll still take the titles and all the good he did here.

Get me one Pats fan willing to say the same and look at this deflate controversy the same way.

So every time someone leveled another ridiculous cheater claim at Jim Calhoun, we should have just assumed it's true because he had cheated in the past? I hope to God you're never on my jury, sheesh.

 

[mauconnfan]

So every time someone leveled another ridiculous cheater claim at Jim Calhoun, we should have just assumed it's true because he had cheated in the past? I hope to God you're never on my jury, sheesh.

This is like comparing a murder to someone who texted "I am going to kill that SOB"

 

[Fishy]

All the balls before game - fine.

Half the balls at halftime - fine.

The other half of the balls at halftime - two pounds under fine.

All the balls that was not fine were from one sideline.

I have no idea how Jim Calhoun entered the conversation, but given the ever-changing denials and then rationalizations I've seen from Pats' fans thus far, I probably shouldn't be too surprised.

 

[Gurleyman]

I mean, seriously - the guy was two yards short of a first down and they marked the ball a half-yard short. How does that happen?

 

[John]

I have no idea how Jim Calhoun entered the conversation, but given the ever-changing denials and then rationalizations I've seen from Pats' fans thus far, I probably shouldn't be too surprised.

It's in the context of not rushing to judgement every time an allegation of cheating is made, something UConn fans lived for a long time. .....

 

[Deepster]

So every time someone leveled another ridiculous cheater claim at Jim Calhoun, we should have just assumed it's true because he had cheated in the past? I hope to God you're never on my jury, sheesh.

I wouldn't say every time. But when the situation looks as bad as 12 of 12 footballs all significantly under the limit with 0 of 12 effected across the field? I'd have a very hard time arguing against that with a straight face like the Pats fan in this thread.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

 

[upstater]

Check out this guy: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...spygate-amid-new-england-patriots-controversy

They are coming out of the woodwork. Carolina GM citing Spygate in the SuperBowl.

The Patriots hadn't played Carolina in years before the game, and the last time they played, Seifert was the coach!!

And people here have the gall to tell us that this isn't about being haters!

This is no different than Mike Gottfried at Alabama crying about UConn's win in 2004. Oddly, the two games happened in the same exact year.

 

[Husky25]

All the balls before game - fine.

Half the balls at halftime - fine.

The other half of the balls at halftime - two pounds under fine.

All the balls that was not fine were from one sideline.

I have no idea how Jim Calhoun entered the conversation, but given the ever-changing denials and then rationalizations I've seen from Pats' fans thus far, I probably shouldn't be too surprised.

How do you know this? Because the NFL says so? Because the ref says so? What makes them anymore infallible than the Patriots (in the eyes of Patriots fans)? What if the ref is covering his ? The possibility that the crew of officials (who don't work with each other during the regular season) didn't do a complete job when approving the balls is a positive non-zero percentage.

According to Adam Schefter on WEEI this morning, the investigation is focused on chain of custody and procedure right now (How they haven't interviewed Brady yet blows my mind). Refs have a responsibility to be impartial, but they are human too. Do you think they would be forthright in admitting that or at least as forthright as you expect of Belichick or Brady? I don't.

Perhaps the NFL exonerated the refs a little too quickly, no? Mike Florio raised the possibility that the NFL wanted to sting the Patriots and knowing allowed them to play the 1st half with under inflated balls. Who lacks integrity in this case? What if the Refs approved underinflated balls? What if they knew prior to the game and they didn't correct them like they apparently do to Aaron Rodgers' over inflated balls. Who lacks integrity in this case?