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OT: Pats-Colts

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No, but I can read. And when they use phrases like:

" that “there are a lot of fuzzy numbers” being talked about, and the accuracy of the meters used to measure the footballs is unknown."


called the ball-rubbing argument “technically possible.”“If there’s enough friction, it could change the pressure,”


Mahadevan estimated that a drop from 80 degrees to 53 degrees would cause the pressure to fall from 12.5 to 11.9 pounds per square inch.



I know what it means. To you it means, VINDICATED, but it doesn't.


Upstater reading the article:



Fuzzy numbers because nothing has been released. All the balls were not down 2 PSI. The kid in the bathroom for 90 seconds didn't manage to deflate 11 balls exactly in a minute and a half.

And, the article had many scientists in it, not just one. What about the MIT guy?
 

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Another thing about this. The game was played at around 50 degrees, not 0. How hot was this room that they keep the footballs in? Probably 68-70 degrees? There is no way a 20 degree temp change, at most, drops the PSI that much.

Water vapor confounds the basic P=(V)(T) calculation.

It does have something to do with the temperature of the gasses but more to do with the phase change of the water vapor when the temperature drops below the dew point.
 

8893

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I know what how? That he did or didn't manage to deflate them in that time?
Didn't. That's what you stated as fact. I don't know one way or the other but, to my simple mind and experience, it certainly seems possible to release pressure from 11 footballs for a second or two each--assuming that's enough time to release the minimal amount you have claimed accounts for the difference--within 90 seconds.

I'm willing to hear what the facts are, but your knee-jerk, immediate, unqualified defense of anything that even suggests a conscious effort by someone within the Pats organization to reduce the pressure of the footballs to be used by a quarterback who is known to have a preference for lower-inflated footballs makes you look like a spin doctor and little else.
 
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Water vapor confounds the basic P=(V)(T) calculation.

It does have something to do with the temperature of the gasses but more to do with the phase change of the water vapor when the temperature drops below the dew point.

The Carnegie Mellon guys said it has to do with the effect of water soaking into leather, which changes the volume inside the ball, because the leather contracts the bladder. Soak the ball, expand the leather, expand the bladder, drop the volume.

Peter King (Mr. Only-A-Human-Could-Have-Done-It) wrote this: http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/27/nfl-deflategate-investigation-patriots/
I got a great and well-reasoned email from Tom Bannister, a chemistry professor from The Scripps Research Institute in Jupiter, Fla., Monday. I will save the explanation of the difference between absolute pressure and relative pressure, and other complex topics. But I called Bannister after getting his smart email, and you’ll see why in a moment.

Key points from his email:

“By the ideal gas law, a football inflated to 12.5 at 72 degrees and cooled to 51 degrees [the temperature on the field during the first half] will have a final pressure of 11.43 psi, thus a loss of 1.16 psi … A second factor, the expansion of a football as it gets wet, also leads to a drop in psi. This factor contributes another 0.7 psi in pressure drop … Plain English ultimate conclusion: It would be reasonable to expect, based on both experimental results and ideal gas law calculations, for a pressure drop in excess of 1.5 psi to have occurred within the Patriots footballs in the first half, based on the known game-time conditions and the observation that the footballs were inflated to 12.5 relative psi at room temperature.

“[But] what about the Colts footballs? We don’t know their initial pressure, but if we assume that they were the maximum legal pressure of 13.5 psi relative pressure, we can calculate the expected pressure drop. Thus the Colts footballs should have been a final pressure of 12.3 psi. The legal lower limit is 12.5 psi. The Colts footballs should have been illegal by 0.2 psi. Question: Would a referee call a reading of 12.3 rather than 12.5 to be clearly out of specifications and illegal? Maybe yes, maybe no. It certainly depends on both the accuracy and precision of the pressure gauge.

“Final conclusion: It is not unreasonable at all to assume that the Patriots balls would fail the inspection and the Colts balls would (barely) pass, based upon logical assumptions of inflation levels, inflation temperatures in concert with the issues of temperature-related gas expansion, the expansion properties of a leather football as it becomes water-soaked, and the human-element.”

So I called Bannister Monday, and we discussed it. I said the assumption is the Colts footballs were at the higher pressure level, and that’s perhaps why they didn’t flunk the halftime pressure test; but there’s no proof of that. But if the Colts did deliver footballs to the officials at 13.5 PSI, then clearly there’s a chance the pressure level would have hovered around 12.5 PSI, and it’s possible the differing results have to do with where each football that was tested was set before the game.

In other words, there’s much we don’t know.

“There’s a lot of missing pieces in this story,” Bannister said.

In this case, truer words have never been spoken. Wells has much to discover. I just hope he gets to discover everything that’s important here.
 
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Didn't. That's what you stated as fact. I don't know one way or the other but, to my simple mind and experience, it certainly seems possible to release pressure from 11 footballs for a second or two each--assuming that's enough time to release the minimal amount you have claimed accounts for the difference--within 90 seconds.

I'm willing to hear what the facts are, but your knee-jerk, immediate, unqualified defense of anything that even suggests a conscious effort by someone within the Pats organization to reduce the pressure of the footballs to be used by a quarterback who is known to have a preference for lower-inflated footballs makes you look like a spin doctor and little else.

So, he was an NFL employee (he had all the Colts balls with him) and he went into the bathroom, then fished out 11 balls, deflated them, 1 t0 2 seconds each, he only needed 20 or so seconds to do it. He didn't need to take a piss. This seems plausible to you.
 
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By the way, deflation is going to happen absolutely because it's, well, a law of physics. But the whole thing is totally irrelevant anyway because Belichick knows all about the investigation, AND he knows key facts that the NFL hasn't released ("Ask the NFL!")

Surprised that no one picked it up in the press conference that Belichick said that the Patriots do NOT give the refs balls inflated to the legal threshold. He said it everyone. And no one has picked up on this.

When it comes out that the refs did not check the balls before the game, I will guarantee you that you will hear from a chorus of haters that the Patriots deliberately tried to pass deflated balls past the refs, and that they succeeded. Which is cheating.

The facts? The Patriots knew they were giving the refs deflated balls. And they succeeded.

This is what I expect will be determined. The refs will be thrown under the bus.

I can tell this is going to be the result from the funky wording in the NFL's statement plus what Belichick said in his news conference.
 

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So, he was an NFL employee (he had all the Colts balls with him) and he went into the bathroom, then fished out 11 balls, deflated them, 1 t0 2 seconds each, he only needed 20 or so seconds to do it. He didn't need to take a piss. This seems plausible to you.
I said possible. You said it wasn't. As for plausible, nothing I've heard so far to explain what happened seems any more or less plausible than any other explanation that has been floated. Your immediate dismissal of any set of facts that even hints at conscious efforts by any human to deflate one set of footballs makes me dismiss you as more biased and unreliable than pretty much any other source, because you have shown yourself to be constitutionally incapable of accepting--as even possible--any scenario that implicates and casts further aspersions on the Pats. History has already shown otherwise.
 
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I said possible. You said it wasn't. As for plausible, nothing I've heard so far to explain what happened seems any more or less plausible than any other explanation that has been floated. Your immediate dismissal of any set of facts that even hints at conscious efforts by any human to deflate one set of footballs makes me dismiss you as more biased and unreliable than pretty much any other source, because you have shown yourself to be constitutionally incapable of accepting--as even possible--any scenario that implicates and casts further aspersions on the Pats. History has already shown otherwise.

The kid had all the Colts balls with him too. Ever stop to wonder why?
 
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By the way, deflation is going to happen absolutely because it's, well, a law of physics. But the whole thing is totally irrelevant anyway because Belichick knows all about the investigation, AND he knows key facts that the NFL hasn't released ("Ask the NFL!")

Surprised that no one picked it up in the press conference that Belichick said that the Patriots do NOT give the refs balls inflated to the legal threshold. He said it everyone. And no one has picked up on this.

When it comes out that the refs did not check the balls before the game, I will guarantee you that you will hear from a chorus of haters that the Patriots deliberately tried to pass deflated balls past the refs, and that they succeeded. Which is cheating.

The facts? The Patriots knew they were giving the refs deflated balls. And they succeeded.

This is what I expect will be determined. The refs will be thrown under the bus.

I can tell this is going to be the result from the funky wording in the NFL's statement plus what Belichick said in his news conference.

But it didn't happen to the Colts balls? Unless they had a different weather patten on the other side of the field?
 
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The kid had all the Colts balls with him too. Ever stop to wonder why?

They should recheck those maybe the little pr**k had theirs at 15.5 and Lucks throws were like helium was in theirs?
 
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They should recheck those maybe the little pr**k had theirs at 15.5 and Lucks throws were like helium was in theirs?

It is quite possible that he both deflated 11 Patriots balls and inflated 12 Luck balls. Glazer has it on authority that this 16 year old perp also didn't wash his hands. Stay tuned, more to come from this bathroom caper, more ballbags and leaks.
 
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But it didn't happen to the Colts balls? Unless they had a different weather patten on the other side of the field?

Who said it didn't?

Were the laws of physics somehow absent on the Colts side? A physics free zone?

NBC reported the Patriots balls at 11.5 PSI. Not all the balls. One of them was at 10.5 PSI. It happened to be the one the Colts equipment guy turned over to the NFL.

By the way, the main guy that broke this story last Monday, Glauber of Newsday, has an article out detailing why Glazer of Fox is full of it on all his reports.
 

CL82

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“We took 12 brand-new authentic NFL footballs and exposed them to the different elements they would have experienced throughout the game,” said Thomas Healy, founder of HeadSmart Labs, in a press release. “Out of the 12 footballs we tested, we found that, on average, footballs dropped 1.8 psi when being exposed to dropping temperatures and wet conditions.”

But, but that's impossible. I mean so many posters here have said that the conditions didn't matter....and, and, and um Belichick is a cheater, so um, so he must have cheated, because, well because that's what I want to believe.
 
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Boomer was on nfl network and it took him 2 seconds to deflate 1 ball from 14 psi to 10.5.

Someone who has done this or does this often could absolutely deflate 11 balls in 90 seconds.

I have 4 football in my home and experimented with filling them up to 13 psi and then deflating them to around 11 psi. As I deflated my brother would refill with the compressor. I was able to get through 8 balls, having never done this before in 54.7 seconds.
 
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The kid had all the Colts balls with him too. Ever stop to wonder why?

He is not only an employee of the NFL but also of the patriots as I understand since they are the ones who pay him. I could be completely wrong about that but that was my understanding
 

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Upstater,
You keep pushing the fact that BB said rubbing the ball could ONLY raise the air pressure. I don't think he said "only".
Later in that interview, when asked about why the Colts' balls didn't lose pressure, BB said: maybe they don't prepare the outside of the ball the same way, and thus, don't cause the same internal reaction.
Maybe Bill Nye didn't get him wrong.

Anyway, I think Bill &/or Tom have created enough plausible deniability that nothing here will stick. We won't see someone deflating the balls. Nothing will happen to the Pats and nothing huge should have happened.

Which is far different than innocence. Because you can't explain with the same temperature, same gauges, same process, the Colt's Balls responded differently than the Pats. Oh yeah the angry ex-Jets coach who personally obtained the equipment and snuck in and deflated 11 of 12 balls.
Now that accusation has much more fact behind it than the one against the Pats.
 
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“We took 12 brand-new authentic NFL footballs and exposed them to the different elements they would have experienced throughout the game,” said Thomas Healy, founder of HeadSmart Labs, in a press release. “Out of the 12 footballs we tested, we found that, on average, footballs dropped 1.8 psi when being exposed to dropping temperatures and wet conditions.”

But, but that's impossible. I mean so many posters here have said that the conditions didn't matter....and, and, and um Belichick is a cheater, so um, so he must have cheated, because, well because that's what I want to believe.
Were the Colts's balls tested after the game? Because if it was just the Pats's balls that were found to be under the limit, the entire video is moot
 

David 76

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Who said it didn't?

Were the laws of physics somehow absent on the Colts side? A physics free zone?

NBC reported the Patriots balls at 11.5 PSI. Not all the balls. One of them was at 10.5 PSI. It happened to be the one the Colts equipment guy turned over to the NFL.

By the way, the main guy that broke this story last Monday, Glauber of Newsday, has an article out detailing why Glazer of Fox is full of it on all his reports.

It's the Dam Colts who tampered with the balls!
 
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Upstater,
You keep pushing the fact that BB said rubbing the ball could ONLY raise the air pressure. I don't think he said "only".
Later in that interview, when asked about why the Colts' balls didn't lose pressure, BB said: maybe they don't prepare the outside of the ball the same way, and thus, don't cause the same internal reaction.
Maybe Bill Nye didn't get him wrong.

Anyway, I think Bill &/or Tom have created enough plausible deniability that nothing here will stick. We won't see someone deflating the balls. Nothing will happen to the Pats and nothing huge should have happened.

Which is far different than innocence. Because you can't explain with the same temperature, same gauges, same process, the Colt's Balls responded differently than the Pats. Oh yeah the angry ex-Jets coach who personally obtained the equipment and snuck in and deflated 11 of 12 balls.
Now that accusation has much more fact behind it than the one against the Pats.

He actually gave the number. He said it went up .5 PSI after rubbing.

As I wrote in another post, the numbers here are totally irrelevant to what really happened, as is the science. It's pretty clear to me, after everything that's been said, the balls were never checked by the refs.

The NFL's statement omits this info in the timeline, and Belichick clearly implied it.

Frankly, I'm shockd that no one has accused the Patriots of cheating for deliberately giving the referees underinflated balls.

As for the rest of what you wrote, Peter King has a column that easily explains the difference in balls from the Colts ones to the Patriots. But there are so many more unknowns about this situation, like what the actual PSIs were at halftime, we have conflicting reports between NBC and Mort at ESPN. Pumping balls outside instead of inside would also give balls similar pressure. Nor has there been any report of the Colts balls being measured.
 

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Rock, Yes they were and were normal.

Upstater, I surrender!
 
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Rock, Yes they were and were normal.
Thanks for the info. That video and its point is completely irrelevant now. The Colts had no problem keeping balls within the approved range.
 
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I just feel badly for upstater at this point, he's way too invested in this.
 
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It is quite possible that he both deflated 11 Patriots balls and inflated 12 Luck balls. Glazer has it on authority that this 16 year old perp also didn't wash his hands. Stay tuned, more to come from this bathroom caper, more ballbags and leaks.

I like how some kid taking a whiz before he heads out to stay on the field for a couple of hours is less believable to some people than Belichick and Brady training these guys to deflate a dozen footballs in a certain amount of time so it only "looks" like normal stop at a restroom.
 
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