OT: NFL Draft

[nomar]

Eh, this class is deep in backs. You can certainly address the position. Get one in a later round. You could have 3-4 good backs for the money you'll pay Barkley.

He's going to make 8m, 10m, 13m in years 3-5 of his deal. That's insanity. And he's not gonna want pay cuts after that. And if he gets hurt...

If I had to pick and not trade, then in a vacuum, I'd probably take Roquan Smith or somebody like that.

jmo of course

I'd rather pay Barkley $13M than pay two freaking bits for every single RB we've had since 1997 not named Tiki or Brandon.

If he's worth the money, great. If he's not, this is the NFL, not the NBA.

I'm surprised at the hand-wringing over getting a stud.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I will admit I'm curious as to what kinds of offers the Giants turned down.

I would imagine something fierce from Buffalo.

Agree. I don't think drafting Darnold was a value move either. Moving back would have been the best move. Get another OL, or stud defender, then a RB later.

Patriots with the usual odd moves

 

[JMick]

The Giants biggest need was running back?

They have the most immobile QB in the league, the worst offensive line in the league, and they are going to be paying a rookie running back more money than nearly every other running back currently in the NFL.

This isn't a debate if he'll be good or hell even All Pro. The Giants had a huge resource with the 2nd overall pick in a deep QB draft where a lot of teams needed a QB and they squandered it on a back. From the jump it's nearly impossible for Barkley to produce at a level that even breaks even on this deal.

Not to mention we've still neglected the offensive line, traded away JPP, have no LBs, cut DRC, and have a head case that sucks in Apple and a head case that is great at times in Jenkins.

How do executives get to where they are in the NFL and idiots like us can look at things more "analytically" than them.

Sorry I guess my "touched by god" meter must just be rusty.

Meh I think the pick will be fine especially if we get Hernandez at 2.2 to step in at guard. The line could actually be pretty good and we can address defense with the rest of the draft.

 

[the Q]

Agree. I don't think drafting Darnold was a value move either. Moving back would have been the best move. Get another OL, or stud defender, then a RB later.

Patriots with the usual odd moves

I think Darnold is the best QB prospect since Winston.

 

[KembaStepback]

The issue for me with taking Barkley is the $. He hasn't played a snap and he will be a top 5 paid RB. If you take a QB it's like getting a bargain at the most important position.
With that said. I was hoping to move to 5 with Denver moving up. Wouldn't have needed much to move down to 5. A couple 2nds? Maybe a 2nd and a 3rd? I'd have taken Quenton Nelson.

As it is now. They better take the center, Daniels or the guard, Hernandez. I'd be OK with Landry or a CB. Other than that I'll be mad.

 

[the Q]

The issue for me with taking Barkley is the $. He hasn't played a snap and he will be a top 5 paid RB. If you take a QB it's like getting a bargain at the most important position.
With that said. I was hoping to move to 5 with Denver moving up. Wouldn't have needed much to move down to 5. A couple 2nds? Maybe a 2nd and a 3rd? I'd have taken Quenton Nelson.

As it is now. They better take the center, Daniels or the guard, Hernandez. I'd be OK with Landry or a CB. Other than that I'll be mad.

yeah they are going to have a good selection at OL no matter what.

Connor Williams the OT from Texas still out there as well.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Meh I think the pick will be fine especially if we get Hernandez at 2.2 to step in at guard. The line could actually be pretty good and we can address defense with the rest of the draft.

I think Barkley will be an All Pro level back too. The churn rate of NFL RBs, the salary cap ramifications, and the fact we have so many more glaring needs that cost way more in FA than a RB would are what bothers me with the pick.

 

[whaler11]

The Giants biggest need was running back?

They have the most immobile QB in the league, the worst offensive line in the league, and they are going to be paying a rookie running back more money than nearly every other running back currently in the NFL.

This isn't a debate if he'll be good or hell even All Pro. The Giants had a huge resource with the 2nd overall pick in a deep QB draft where a lot of teams needed a QB and they squandered it on a back. From the jump it's nearly impossible for Barkley to produce at a level that even breaks even on this deal.

Not to mention we've still neglected the offensive line, traded away JPP, have no LBs, cut DRC, and have a head case that sucks in Apple and a head case that is great at times in Jenkins.

How do executives get to where they are in the NFL and idiots like us can look at things more "analytically" than them.

Sorry I guess my "touched by god" meter must just be rusty.

The Giants are a two billion dollar entity that let their most important employee go on TV and constantly annouce to the world he is a complete genius.

Durrr analytics, positonial value - we ain’t need none of that.

 

[JMick]

I think Barkley will be an All Pro level back too. The churn rate of NFL RBs, the salary cap ramifications, and the fact we have so many more glaring needs that cost way more in FA than a RB would are what bothers me with the pick.

The pick just tells me we're in win now mode and that the FO thinks McAdoo was so bad that it made the team look 10x worse than it was. If we look really good the next 2-3 years and make a super bowl then the cap hit doesn't mean much. Not saying I agree with the sentiment or that it wil happen but it seems to be the approach

 

[JMick]

The Giants are a two billion dollar entity that let their most important employee go on TV and constantly annouce to the world he is a complete genius.

Durrr analytics, positonial value - we ain’t need none of that.

I think you're miscategorizing what he said. He truly believes Barkley is the best or 2nd best player that he has ever evaluated. In that context, he doesn't believe positional value matters. If you have the chance to take the GOAT running back, which by his evaluation Barkley could be, then it doesn't matter where you are in the draft

 

[whaler11]

I think you're miscategorizing what he said. He truly believes Barkley is the best or 2nd best player that he has ever evaluated. In that context, he doesn't believe positional value matters. If you have the chance to take the GOAT running back, which by his evaluation Barkley could be, then it doesn't matter where you are in the draft

And that’s the kind of 1978 thinking that kills your franchise.

 

[JMick]

And that’s the kind of 1978 thinking that kills your franchise.

Unless he does end up being a top 5 running back of all time and carries the team to a Superbowl

 

[whaler11]

Unless he does end up being a top 5 running back of all time and carries the team to a Superbowl

Because a luddite who can’t comprehend positional value is probably going to be able to put together a Super Bowl quality roster....

But sure Barkley could be the best player in NFL history and single-handedly change the entire direction the game has moved for the last two decades.

By the standard anything someone does can work out isn’t really a process I buy into but YMMV.

 

[Waquoit]

The Giants are a two billion dollar entity that let their most important employee go on TV and constantly annouce to the world he is a complete genius.
Durrr analytics, positonial value - we ain’t need none of that.

Are you a genius when you do what your boss tells you what to do? Which I've heard a couple times was the case.

 

[whaler11]

Are you a genius when you do what your boss tells you what to do? Which I've heard a couple times was the case.

Then come up with a different story.

If the owner is dictating like that they are screwed anyway.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think RB is undervalued currently. The league doesn't always value things correctly. There is too much groupthink.

 

[Waquoit]

My favorite draft day maneuver was the Bills trading up to take the overrated racist quarterback from Hicksville. Makes perfect sense from the owner who thinks the NFL needs a spokesman like Charlton Heston.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Patriots had interesting picks.

#23 Wynn a Tackle that could be better at guard. But he excels in pass protection. My guess, they plug him in at LT. If he is great, leave him there. If not, Shaq Mason's contract ends this year, they let him go, plug Wynn in at G and get a new LT. The versatility adds value.

#31 Sonny Michel. Interesting pick. I knew the Pats would let Lewis walk, and hoped they would sign Rex. They did. I think they may let White walk as well. I think Belichick sees a lot of new value in 3 down RBs, from a scheme perspective. Guys who can get yards on first down, or pass block, or catch the ball. Michel does all of that, and was the highest graded back in pass blocking. He's also got great hands. It's the versatility that brings value.

My predictions for round 2. A LB or DE plus a QB. I think it will be Rudolph or Falk, more like Falk with that second pick. Just a hunch. Looking at what Falk did at WSU, he was arguably better than Darnold or Rosen playing in the same conference.

 

[auror]

Our RBs have been DISGUSTING. We just got the top-rated RB prospect coming out of college since Adrian Peterson. It was our most glaring need and we filled with a stud. Let's fire the GM.
...
The odds of Barkley reaching his potential are, IMO, SIGNIFICANTLY higher than any of those 4 QBs reaching theirs. None of these guys looks to me like an Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning.
...
And for all the talk about getting a RB lower in the draft, guess what: We've tried.

I'd rather pay Barkley $13M than pay two freaking bits for every single RB we've had since 1997 not named Tiki or Brandon.

If he's worth the money, great. If he's not, this is the NFL, not the NBA.

I'm surprised at the hand-wringing over getting a stud.

I think RB is undervalued currently. The league doesn't always value things correctly. There is too much groupthink.

Every year a RB comes out who is the next Adrian Peterson. Last year it was Fournette. Year before was Elliot. Then it was Gurley.

Here are the running backs with the most yards in the Super Bowl on all the Super Bowl winning teams and their cap hit from that season this millenium:
LeGarrette Blount - 1.25 mil
LeGarrette Blount - 1 mil
CJ Anderson - 0.6 mil
LeGarrette Blount - 0.25 mil
Percy Harvin - 4.9 mil / Marshawn Lynch 8.5 mil
Ray Rice - 5 mil
Ahmad Bradshaw - 2.25 mil
James Starks - 0.34 mil
Pierre Thomas - 0.46 mil
Willie Parker - 4.1 mil
Ahmad Bradshaw - 0.32 mil
Dominic Rhodes - 2 mil
Willie Parker - 0.3 mil
Corey Dillon - 1.75 mil
Antowain Smith - 2 mil
Michael Pittman - 2.2 mil
Antowain Smith - 0.5 mil
Jamal Lewis - 1.8 mil

Saquon Barkley on rookie deal
2018: $5M
2019: $7M
2020: $8M
2021: $10M

 

[auror]

The Barkley pick comes off as a marketing ploy. But he is rated as the best player in the draft. Barry Sanders did get the Lions rolling for a while.

The Lions won 1 playoff game in his entire career with Detroit.

 

[Yardigan]

I'm a long-time Giants fan and like the pick. Then again, I'm the kinda fan these days that pretty much only knows the names of the QB, WR's, RB's and maybe a DB or two. The linemen and defense ...I know those guys are critical, but I'm not interested enough to learn their names - I did when they had Banks, Carson, LT and crew, but not any more. I only watch for the offense...passing in particular. Part of the reason for that is, with so much else to do/watch, once my team is eliminated, I'm done watching for the season. And last year's season ended mighty early.

If the Giants have someone that can at least make the other team 'think' they're going to run, that's gotta help and maybe he comes up with a few key offensive plays. For me, it's all about the passing...bring in Dez B.

All time favorite player => Dan Fouts.

 

[whaler11]

Every year a RB comes out who is the next Adrian Peterson. Last year it was Fournette. Year before was Elliot. Then it was Gurley.

Here are the running backs with the most yards in the Super Bowl on all the Super Bowl winning teams and their cap hit from that season this millenium:
LeGarrette Blount - 1.25 mil
LeGarrette Blount - 1 mil
CJ Anderson - 0.6 mil
LeGarrette Blount - 0.25 mil
Percy Harvin - 4.9 mil / Marshawn Lynch 8.5 mil
Ray Rice - 5 mil
Ahmad Bradshaw - 2.25 mil
James Starks - 0.34 mil
Pierre Thomas - 0.46 mil
Willie Parker - 4.1 mil
Ahmad Bradshaw - 0.32 mil
Dominic Rhodes - 2 mil
Willie Parker - 0.3 mil
Corey Dillon - 1.75 mil
Antowain Smith - 2 mil
Michael Pittman - 2.2 mil
Antowain Smith - 0.5 mil
Jamal Lewis - 1.8 mil

Saquon Barkley on rookie deal
2018: $5M
2019: $7M
2020: $8M
2021: $10M

Thanks I started to write this post and then just stopped because it’s pointless.

 

[JMick]

Because a luddite who can’t comprehend positional value is probably going to be able to put together a Super Bowl quality roster....

But sure Barkley could be the best player in NFL history and single-handedly change the entire direction the game has moved for the last two decades.

By the standard anything someone does can work out isn’t really a process I buy into but YMMV.

He put together a Superbowl quality roster at Carolina...

 

[nomar]

Every year a RB comes out who is the next Adrian Peterson. Last year it was Fournette. Year before was Elliot. Then it was Gurley.

Here are the running backs with the most yards in the Super Bowl on all the Super Bowl winning teams and their cap hit from that season this millenium:
LeGarrette Blount - 1.25 mil
LeGarrette Blount - 1 mil
CJ Anderson - 0.6 mil
LeGarrette Blount - 0.25 mil
Percy Harvin - 4.9 mil / Marshawn Lynch 8.5 mil
Ray Rice - 5 mil
Ahmad Bradshaw - 2.25 mil
James Starks - 0.34 mil
Pierre Thomas - 0.46 mil
Willie Parker - 4.1 mil
Ahmad Bradshaw - 0.32 mil
Dominic Rhodes - 2 mil
Willie Parker - 0.3 mil
Corey Dillon - 1.75 mil
Antowain Smith - 2 mil
Michael Pittman - 2.2 mil
Antowain Smith - 0.5 mil
Jamal Lewis - 1.8 mil

Saquon Barkley on rookie deal
2018: $5M
2019: $7M
2020: $8M
2021: $10M

I take the point. But:

Those numbers are presumably not adjusted.

The Patriots are in their own classification.

And Barkley was rated higher than any of those guys.

 

[whaler11]

He put together a Superbowl quality roster at Carolina...

He inhereted a good team but yes they went to a Super Bowl. They also tossed him
overboard and ironcally his best RB was his QB.

 

[JMick]

Every year a RB comes out who is the next Adrian Peterson. Last year it was Fournette. Year before was Elliot. Then it was Gurley

That argument is illogical. You have to look at each prospect individually. You can't ding him because the media has hyped up running backs the last few years

 

[CardiacAndre7]

People are really never content jesus.

 

[JMick]

He inhereted a good team but yes they went to a Super Bowl. They also tossed him
overboard and ironcally his best RB was his QB.

That was his third season with the team. You can't say the guy isn't capable of putting together a super bowl quality team when he already had as the GM and helped the Giants win a couple super bowls too

 

[whaler11]

That was his third season with the team. You can't say the guy isn't capable of putting together a super bowl quality team when he already had as the GM and helped the Giants win a couple super bowls too

That’s fair I guess but where they started in Carolina is different than where he is now.

Carolina had the QB and no RB... sorta the way every other good team rolls these days.

 

[JMick]

That’s fair I guess but where they started in Carolina is different than where he is now.

Carolina had the QB and no RB... sorta the way every other good team rolls these days.

If he liked any of the QBs he would have taken one. I think this will be a forgettable QB class outside of a late hit (I like Luke Faulk) or maybe someone like Lamar Jackson. Personally I would have traded down for the right deal but my point is I understand the pick from his perspective. If you truly believe he can be the best ever at his position then it's a no brainer.