OT: NFL Draft

[Yardigan]

I'm a long-time Giants fan and like the pick. Then again, I'm the kinda fan these days that pretty much only knows the names of the QB, WR's, RB's and maybe a DB or two. The linemen and defense ...I know those guys are critical, but I'm not interested enough to learn their names - I did when they had Banks, Carson, LT and crew, but not any more. I only watch for the offense...passing in particular. Part of the reason for that is, with so much else to do/watch, once my team is eliminated, I'm done watching for the season. And last year's season ended mighty early.

If the Giants have someone that can at least make the other team 'think' they're going to run, that's gotta help and maybe he comes up with a few key offensive plays. For me, it's all about the passing...bring in Dez B.

All time favorite player => Dan Fouts.

 

[whaler11]

Every year a RB comes out who is the next Adrian Peterson. Last year it was Fournette. Year before was Elliot. Then it was Gurley.

Here are the running backs with the most yards in the Super Bowl on all the Super Bowl winning teams and their cap hit from that season this millenium:
LeGarrette Blount - 1.25 mil
LeGarrette Blount - 1 mil
CJ Anderson - 0.6 mil
LeGarrette Blount - 0.25 mil
Percy Harvin - 4.9 mil / Marshawn Lynch 8.5 mil
Ray Rice - 5 mil
Ahmad Bradshaw - 2.25 mil
James Starks - 0.34 mil
Pierre Thomas - 0.46 mil
Willie Parker - 4.1 mil
Ahmad Bradshaw - 0.32 mil
Dominic Rhodes - 2 mil
Willie Parker - 0.3 mil
Corey Dillon - 1.75 mil
Antowain Smith - 2 mil
Michael Pittman - 2.2 mil
Antowain Smith - 0.5 mil
Jamal Lewis - 1.8 mil

Saquon Barkley on rookie deal
2018: $5M
2019: $7M
2020: $8M
2021: $10M

Thanks I started to write this post and then just stopped because it’s pointless.

 

[JMick]

Because a luddite who can’t comprehend positional value is probably going to be able to put together a Super Bowl quality roster....

But sure Barkley could be the best player in NFL history and single-handedly change the entire direction the game has moved for the last two decades.

By the standard anything someone does can work out isn’t really a process I buy into but YMMV.

He put together a Superbowl quality roster at Carolina...

 

[nomar]

Every year a RB comes out who is the next Adrian Peterson. Last year it was Fournette. Year before was Elliot. Then it was Gurley.

Here are the running backs with the most yards in the Super Bowl on all the Super Bowl winning teams and their cap hit from that season this millenium:
LeGarrette Blount - 1.25 mil
LeGarrette Blount - 1 mil
CJ Anderson - 0.6 mil
LeGarrette Blount - 0.25 mil
Percy Harvin - 4.9 mil / Marshawn Lynch 8.5 mil
Ray Rice - 5 mil
Ahmad Bradshaw - 2.25 mil
James Starks - 0.34 mil
Pierre Thomas - 0.46 mil
Willie Parker - 4.1 mil
Ahmad Bradshaw - 0.32 mil
Dominic Rhodes - 2 mil
Willie Parker - 0.3 mil
Corey Dillon - 1.75 mil
Antowain Smith - 2 mil
Michael Pittman - 2.2 mil
Antowain Smith - 0.5 mil
Jamal Lewis - 1.8 mil

Saquon Barkley on rookie deal
2018: $5M
2019: $7M
2020: $8M
2021: $10M

I take the point. But:

Those numbers are presumably not adjusted.

The Patriots are in their own classification.

And Barkley was rated higher than any of those guys.

 

[whaler11]

He put together a Superbowl quality roster at Carolina...

He inhereted a good team but yes they went to a Super Bowl. They also tossed him
overboard and ironcally his best RB was his QB.

 

[JMick]

Every year a RB comes out who is the next Adrian Peterson. Last year it was Fournette. Year before was Elliot. Then it was Gurley

That argument is illogical. You have to look at each prospect individually. You can't ding him because the media has hyped up running backs the last few years

 

[CardiacAndre7]

People are really never content jesus.

 

[JMick]

He inhereted a good team but yes they went to a Super Bowl. They also tossed him
overboard and ironcally his best RB was his QB.

That was his third season with the team. You can't say the guy isn't capable of putting together a super bowl quality team when he already had as the GM and helped the Giants win a couple super bowls too

 

[whaler11]

That was his third season with the team. You can't say the guy isn't capable of putting together a super bowl quality team when he already had as the GM and helped the Giants win a couple super bowls too

That’s fair I guess but where they started in Carolina is different than where he is now.

Carolina had the QB and no RB... sorta the way every other good team rolls these days.

 

[JMick]

That’s fair I guess but where they started in Carolina is different than where he is now.

Carolina had the QB and no RB... sorta the way every other good team rolls these days.

If he liked any of the QBs he would have taken one. I think this will be a forgettable QB class outside of a late hit (I like Luke Faulk) or maybe someone like Lamar Jackson. Personally I would have traded down for the right deal but my point is I understand the pick from his perspective. If you truly believe he can be the best ever at his position then it's a no brainer.

 

[intlzncster]

The football guru's on NFL Network said the same thing They didn't see a franchise QB in the lot.

This right here means there's going to be two probowlers in this class.

 

[intlzncster]

I'd rather pay Barkley $13M than pay two freaking bits for every single RB we've had since 1997 not named Tiki or Brandon.

If he's worth the money, great. If he's not, this is the NFL, not the NBA.

I'm surprised at the hand-wringing over getting a stud.

OK, but you are basing it on past regimes. It's not about the jersey, it's about the people running it. If Gettleman has an eye for talent, he should be able to pick up a few quality running backs.

Nobody argues that Barkley isn't going to be great, but even if he puts up HOF numbers, he doesn't outperform that contract. Each one of those millions takes away from multiple other positions. It's the position vs the contract that is the problem.

The best move for most teams in the Top 3 would have been to trade. Might have been able to swap that pick for at two 1's plus a 2/3.

Closest trade we saw was for the #7:

• Buccaneers send: Picks No. 7, 255
• Bills send: Picks No. 12, 53, 56

And this is coming from a guy who firmly believes taking the best player available is almost always the right move, regardless of need. Football's structure lends to slightly different strategies for QBs and positions at the top of the draft.

If the Best player in the draft is some other worldly kicker, you don't take him at the top of the draft. Obviously being facetious to make a point.

 

[JMick]

OK, but you are basing it on past regimes. It's not about the jersey, it's about the people running it. If Gettleman has an eye for talent, he should be able to pick up a few quality running backs.

Nobody argues that Barkley isn't going to be great, but even if he puts up HOF numbers, he doesn't outperform that contract. Each one of those millions takes away from multiple other positions. It's the position vs the contract that is the problem.

The best move for most teams in the Top 3 would have been to trade. Might have been able to swap that pick for at two 1's plus a 2/3.

Closest trade we saw was for the #7:

• Buccaneers send: Picks No. 7, 255
• Bills send: Picks No. 12, 53, 56

Supposedly we weren't getting an extra first and second which is what we wanted. If you don't get what you want then you take your guy.

 

[auror]

That argument is illogical. You have to look at each prospect individually. You can't ding him because the media has hyped up running backs the last few years

You are correct when personally assessing something as a possible source of bias. When a person in an argument is advocating for something based on an expert's opinion (appeal to authority/accomplishment), it is fair to criticize the source of the opinion as having a poor track record.

Go ahead and take a look at the rest of the argument as well.

 

[intlzncster]

Supposedly we weren't getting an extra first and second which is what we wanted. If you don't get what you want then you take your guy.

I've no inside info on that, but I've zero doubt a team would never admit they could have traded. 'we had no choice' is normal cover for these sorts of things. I don't think any of us could know exactly what was on offer, or if the Giants priced it too high to begin with.

I mean you got a great player, but you'll be sacrificing on the Oline/Dline/backfield etc to pay him. When all those positions are far more important than running back in the modern game.

There's a lot of what ifs. If he gets hurt, you're cooked. In order to meet the salary requirements, you need to hit multiple homeruns in the Draft at those other positions over the next few years. Which is next to impossible without a run of fantastic luck.

It will be fascinating to watch it all play out over the next few years. That's the thing that's most interesting about football imo.

 

[JMick]

I've no inside info on that, but I've zero doubt a team would never admit they could have traded. 'we had no choice' is normal cover for these sorts of things. I don't think any of us could know exactly what was on offer, or if the Giants priced it too high to begin with.

I mean you got a great player, but you'll be sacrificing on the Oline/Dline/backfield etc to pay him. When all those positions are far more important than running back in the modern game.

There's a lot of what ifs. If he gets hurt, you're cooked. In order to meet the salary requirements, you need to hit multiple homeruns in the Draft at those other positions over the next few years. Which is next to impossible without a run of fantastic luck.

It will be fascinating to watch it all play out over the next few years. That's the thing that's most interesting about football imo.

Yeah idk if that's true but I saw a quote from someone that said we were looking for a first and second and that the offers to move down weren't good enough. Who knows. The NFL is all about entertainment for me and I think Barkley will be entertaining so I'm generally happy with the decision.

 

[nomar]

And that’s the kind of 1978 thinking that kills your franchise.

Or it's 2020 thinking. Get a new kind of RB who can run routes like a WR but also tote the rock.

If you or anybody else who's upset with the pick wants to try to feel better, here's a nice article from a couple days talking about how special Barkley could be:

What Is Saquon Barkley Worth in the Modern NFL?

 

[nomar]

OK, but you are basing it on past regimes. It's not about the jersey, it's about the people running it. If Gettleman has an eye for talent, he should be able to pick up a few quality running backs.

Nobody argues that Barkley isn't going to be great, but even if he puts up HOF numbers, he doesn't outperform that contract. Each one of those millions takes away from multiple other positions. It's the position vs the contract that is the problem.

The best move for most teams in the Top 3 would have been to trade. Might have been able to swap that pick for at two 1's plus a 2/3.

Closest trade we saw was for the #7:

• Buccaneers send: Picks No. 7, 255
• Bills send: Picks No. 12, 53, 56

And this is coming from a guy who firmly believes taking the best player available is almost always the right move, regardless of need. Football's structure lends to slightly different strategies for QBs and positions at the top of the draft.

If the Best player in the draft is some other worldly kicker, you don't take him at the top of the draft. Obviously being facetious to make a point.

If you look at the post starting this thread, I said my first choice would be to trade back inside the top-10. It's hard to tell from DG's comments on how serious the offers were. If he puts up HOF numbers, we're in good shape and nobody will be second-guessing this. Let's hope...

 

[intlzncster]

If the owner is dictating like that they are screwed anyway.

That. But that is how you become the Browns. Zero idea if that rumor is true mind you. Hopefully for the Giants sake it is not.

 

[intlzncster]

I think RB is undervalued currently. The league doesn't always value things correctly. There is too much groupthink.

Why? They don't last long, are injury prone in season, and it's a predominantly passing league. Add that to the cap, and it's no wonder they aren't valued as highly.

The best backs these days are quasi receivers and are exceptional pass blockers. (along with traditional skills)

 

[whaler11]

Or it's 2020 thinking. Get a new kind of RB who can run routes like a WR but also tote the rock.

If you or anybody else who's upset with the pick wants to try to feel better, here's a nice article from a couple days talking about how special Barkley could be:

What Is Saquon Barkley Worth in the Modern NFL?

If they had a QB I wouldn’t have any problem.

What’s a realistic length of time he can be dominant? 5-6 years? He’s good enough to help them get to where they are stuck in the middle of the draft but it’s impossible to get over the hump without a QB.

They are going to waste half of his peak on cooked Eli.

 

[intlzncster]

Patriots had interesting picks.

#23 Wynn a Tackle that could be better at guard. But he excels in pass protection. My guess, they plug him in at LT. If he is great, leave him there. If not, Shaq Mason's contract ends this year, they let him go, plug Wynn in at G and get a new LT. The versatility adds value.

#31 Sonny Michel. Interesting pick. I knew the Pats would let Lewis walk, and hoped they would sign Rex. They did. I think they may let White walk as well. I think Belichick sees a lot of new value in 3 down RBs, from a scheme perspective. Guys who can get yards on first down, or pass block, or catch the ball. Michel does all of that, and was the highest graded back in pass blocking. He's also got great hands. It's the versatility that brings value.

My predictions for round 2. A LB or DE plus a QB. I think it will be Rudolph or Falk, more like Falk with that second pick. Just a hunch. Looking at what Falk did at WSU, he was arguably better than Darnold or Rosen playing in the same conference.

I hate having so many Patriot front office/coach guys on other teams right now. That Robinson/Vrabel move to jump BB for Rashaan Evans is emblematic.

I was underwhelmed to see the Michel pick. But, I'm often underwhelmed. BB is a master at first round picks. Read an article recently that graded him out as the best in the business iirc.

I don't know enough about the tackle class to gauge the kid from Georgia. All the fans down there loved him though.

 

[intlzncster]

Every year a RB comes out who is the next Adrian Peterson. Last year it was Fournette. Year before was Elliot. Then it was Gurley.

Don't forget Trent Richardson! haha

 

[intlzncster]

The NFL is all about entertainment for me and I think Barkley will be entertaining so I'm generally happy with the decision.

That is certainly true. He'll probably be a lot of fun to watch.

 

[KembaStepback]

Heres a legit question. In the last 20 yrs what Rbs drafted in the first round have won a SB with the team that drafted them?

Off the top of my head...im thinking Jamal Lewis (Ravens), Joseph Addai (Colts), and Reggie Buss (Saints). Are there others?

I don't believe Reggie was a big piece of that team. Addai had a very short window of effectiveness. Jamal Lewis was a beast. It's not IMPOSSIBLE for a RB to win...but it's unlikely. Lewis was on a Defense/Running team now that I think about it.