OT: NBA Finals

[Gurleyman]

To me, last night's result was a combination of 3 things: 1. Cavs are gassed. Too many minutes for the key guys. Dellavedova was in hospital 40 hours prior to game time. Never a promising sign. For the first game, they looked like the less energetic team. 2 overtime games, a hard fought game 3, and an extremely short bench will do that to you. Somebody needs to figure out where LBJ's minutes, per game per day, rank all time over the first 4 games of a finals. One data point. In 85, Magic played 34, 41, 39, 43 over the 1st 4 games, and each of those games was played on 3 days rest. LBJ has played 46, 51, 46, 41 and those games were played on 3 days rest, 2, and 2. Magic's minutes per day averages to 15.7 minutes per day. LBJ's is 23 minutes per day, or a rate of about 50% greater than what Magic played. Unlike games 1-3, last night LBJ was taking plays off. I can't imagine the level of exhaustion he must feel, but it must be intense..

You are clearly passionate and you make some good observations in your arguments - the first two minutes of the 4Q were indeed a disaster, and LBJ could have easily had 12 or more assists with better shooting from his teammates yesterday (and maybe if they knocked those down and kept it closer, he wouldn't have taken plays off). He can clearly be forgiven for wearing down one night in the middle of a long series when he's lifted a team full of ragamuffins to the brink of a title, and if the Cavs win this thing - or even if it goes 7, G4 will be completely forgotten by everyone (except maybe by Iguadola's family). But you're an intelligent guy, so I have to wonder...

Why Magic in 1985? Seems odd to pick that one out at random, especially when you'd want to compare LBJ to Jordan for the GOAT debate (or Iverson in the sense of being a one-man wrecking crew). Magic is also better known for 1987 and the junior sky hook in G4, so that's the series I'd look at first. Well, 1985 of course is known for the Boston Massacre in G1 and how the Lakers overcame that to win the series. So everyone's minutes were reduced due to the historically large blowout (the Lakers also won G3 by 25). It should be obvious that something is unusual looking at his minute totals (only 34 minutes - injured? Foul trouble? Blowout?). The NBA has also been using a Tuesday-Thursday-Sunday format since at least 1988 (to avoid the ratings pitfalls on Friday and Saturday nights), so this "per day" stuff wouldn't effect any series since then, but it does for Magic in 1985. It feels like a data point you crafted specifically to compare to Magic in 1985 to make LBJ look like he's some sort of superhero.

To get more meaningful data points, I recalled four series that had an overtime game in the first four games and dominant players in their prime, and found seven guys who have played more than LBJ's 184 minutes (46 mpg) in the first four games of a series. Jordan, Barkley and Dan Majerle in 1993 (with a 2OT G3), Iverson and Kobe jn 2001 (OT G1), Kobe again in 2004 (OT G2) and Robert Horry in 1994 (who got to stand around on offense a lot and probably shouldn't count). Barkley was the most with 194 (46-46-56-46), Iverson had 192 (52-47-47-46), etc, This is what superstars do in the finals. They get little rest and have to play through fatigue. It's part of the job description.

I kind of wonder how you might have acted to the flu game if you were a Jordan fanatic.

 

[TasteofUConn]

Why Magic in 1985? Seems odd to pick that one out at random . . . This is what superstars do in the finals. They get little rest and have to play through fatigue. It's part of the job description.
I kind of wonder how you might have acted to the flu game if you were a Jordan fanatic.

Your basketball statistical knowledge exceeds mine by a huge amount - I'm not a huge NBA fan, nor have I been for 30 years. I remember they went to a 2/3/2 format and everybody hated it. Other than that, I couldn't tell you anything the history of finals scheduling. I picked the Lakers/Celtics in 85 for the following reasons (and spent all of about 3 seconds on it): I was a huge Laker fan at the time and it's when my NBA appreciation maxed out. Magic had similar ball handling duties and had a similar build/size. That's it. Zero ulterior motive or intent to deceive. Clearly the choice of 1985, given your explanation of the current standard format, was a poor choice, and the numbers I presented can be discarded.
That written, I don't believe that any player on any team in any series has had to work as hard with as little help as LBJ in this series. That's a matter of opinion, sure, but that's mine. The minutes he's logged, in combination with the exertion he's had to put forth, are obscene, and I don't buy for a second that the assertion that "part of the job description" is to "play through fatigue" is applicable.
I'm not particularly passionate about basketball, BTW, other than UConn. I just like arguing about stuff like this.

 

[Gurleyman]

Your basketball statistical knowledge exceeds mine by a huge amount - I'm not a huge NBA fan, nor have I been for 30 years. I remember they went to a 2/3/2 format and everybody hated it. Other than that, I couldn't tell you anything the history of finals scheduling. I picked the Lakers/Celtics in 85 for the following reasons (and spent all of about 3 seconds on it): I was a huge Laker fan at the time and it's when my NBA appreciation maxed out. Magic had similar ball handling duties and had a similar build/size. That's it. Zero ulterior motive or intent to deceive. Clearly the choice of 1985, given your explanation of the current standard format, was a poor choice, and the numbers I presented can be discarded. That written, I don't believe that any player on any team in any series has had to work as hard with as little help as LBJ in this series. That's a matter of opinion, sure, but that's mine. The minutes he's logged, in combination with the exertion he's had to put forth, are obscene, and I don't buy for a second that the assertion that "part of the job description" is to "play through fatigue" is applicable. I'm not particularly passionate about basketball, BTW, other than UConn. I just like arguing about stuff like this.

Fair enough - we squabbled a bit in this thread but I've found you to be an interesting poster in general with your discussions of your tree hobby (which I think is cool) and the way you had some pretty informed and passionate opinions in the Drummond thread. So I think you're a good addition to the board. A little sports debate is fun, even if you disagree. It's the cesspool that sucks. Don't go there!

 

[Walker11]

Well he didn't fake an injury, but do you understand why he had to dive 10 feet directly into a camera lens?

He got fouled hard, went to the ground, they called the foul, but he bounced off the court like there was a hidden trampoline. That was gruesome as hell, but I don't think it needed to happen, I think it happened because he's LeBron.

I did enjoy a little later, Lebron slashed Iggy's arms as he drove the lane, and Iggy immediately did the Lebron reaction: grab and clutch at the affected area as though a helicopter rotor just lopped off an appendage, wince and grimace so all the fans know you are the equivalent of a Marine fighting for your country.

keep lapping up Lebron's antics buddy, keep on lapping it up

I can't stand Lebron but at least I realize my dislike is irrational. You are just on a different planet with your hate.

 

[TasteofUConn]

Fair enough - we squabbled . . .

I squabble with my wife, and we always end up naked in bed doing improper things.
That's not an offer, but simply an observation that animated, somewhat contentious tet-a-tet intercourse is not incompatible with mutual respect.
Again - very impressed with your knowledge of the NBA. For whatever reason, I just don't retain most sport things unless I was fully immersed at the time. E.G. - I remember exactly where I was for the shot, Langon's final trip, us killing Butler, and I have vivid memories of the 14 run (including buying 14 strangers in a bar a couple of shots after we closed out Kentucky). I remember watching a ton of Lakers in the 80s. TNT carried west coast games, and I just got hooked. But I don't remember much about particular years anymore. Rambis getting clotheslined. Magic getting hurt one year - hammi. The ML Carr guy waiving the towel on the Celtic bench. Worthy throwing the ball away. Michael Cooper getting one of the greatest blocks I have ever seen on a Celt breakaway but the Ref calling a foul as it happened because he, like everybody else, didn't think the block was possible. A couple others. Mostly a blur though.
Anyway, I hope the Cavs can put up a bit of a fight. This may end with two 25 point blowouts.

 

[mauconnfan]

I'm not positive on this but did TasteofUConn just ask Gurley to hit the sack naked with him because he is so impressed with his NBA knowledge

 

[TasteofUConn]

I'm not positive on this but did TasteofUConn just ask Gurley to hit the sack naked with him because he is so impressed with his NBA knowledge

You want a tasteofuconn too?

 

[huskyharry]

I squabble with my wife, and we ALWAYS end up naked in bed doing improper things.

You sir, are a very fortunate man!

 

[mauconnfan]

You want a tasteofuconn too?

I'm good thanks!

 

[8893]

@TasteofUConn , are you the guy who has been here under a couple different handles and recently bought a bar in some one stoplight PA town?

 

[Kitaman]

TasteofUConn said: I squabble with my wife, and we ALWAYS end up naked in bed doing improper things.

You sir, are a very fortunate man!

Well I start in the bed naked with my wife and end up squabbling over improper things. Most often over me getting out of bed too quickly to check the Yard. The love of pizza does that to a man.

 

[David 76]

I was not fond of LeBron ever since reading that the 16 year old LBJ's mother gave him a Hummer. The Decision and the manipulation of the big 3 to Miami really turned me off.
But watching the basketball player ultimately has put those things out of my mind. He is amazing. And he was pretty young when he was being a jerk.
The GOAT is a tough one for me. LBJ is a halfback. MJ was part ballet dancer. Both are fierce competitors. I lean toward MJ but I may be biased by age.
One thing is clear to me. Jordan had a far greater impact on society. I'm sure he had detractors among serious NBA fans but they were pretty quiet. His basketball, corporate sales pitchman, hit animated movie had most Americans wanting "to be like Mike"

I'm not aware of a great one that didn't annoy opponents with their competitiveness on the court, Maybe Magic?

 

[mauconnfan]

Wait a minute, what's this about LBJ's mom giving him a hummer? Seriously I have never heard this is this real or am I reading this incorrectly?

As far as LeBron he is a great great player. Not Michael but Top 5-10 for sure. I mean he's shooting 28% against the smaller GState lineup and 42% (38% overall) against the rest - that's not really impressive but he's a huge impact overall. His arrogance has gone off the charts but hey, why not? He whines more than any superstar ever there's no doubting that and he gets worst every year. He wasn't fouled hard enough to hit his head on the camera the other night but he acted it out so much he did it to himself. Having said all of that he does all the right things off the court it would seem and is a likable guy for a guy with all eyes on him. He can lead a team hammered with injuries and who are not really good (neither is GSt though) overall.

 

[David 76]

Mau, you don't remember that birthday present? He was 18: https://video.search.yahoo.com/vide...,v:v&fr=yhs-iba-1&hsimp=yhs-1&hspart=iba&tt=b

 

[David 76]

You can buy it!
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1903951-lebron-james-infamous-2003-hummer-h2-is-now-for-sale

 

[Waquoit]

Wait a minute, what's this about LBJ's mom giving him a hummer? Seriously I have never heard this is this real or am I reading this incorrectly?

That's creepy. I thought it was Delonte West?

 

[mauconnfan]

Mau, you don't remember that birthday present? He was 18: https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIRymn1VKFMAjiY0nIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByZWc0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=Lebron+James+Mother+Hummer&vid=2d7102241265da7c14a423986ab23014&turl=http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=WN.McY4T703vbJxhrx5NBanIA&pid=15.1&h=227&w=300&c=7&rs=1&rurl=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMwG1UIRTVs&tit=Lebron+James+gets+a+$50,000+Hummer+in+high+school&c=0&h=227&w=300&l=612&sigr=11b23vo6h&sigt=11huaoip2&sigi=12k6kl10d&age=1300071776&fr2=p:s,v:v&fr=yhs-iba-1&hsimp=yhs-1&hspart=iba&tt=b

Thank God. I never read this so my thoughts were in an awful place.

 

[JSM1970]

Draymond Green is the least likeable person in sports. Geez he's annoying.

 

[superjohn]

Surprised nobody has taken a swing at Dellavedova yet, the guy is constantly clutching and grabbing. Again he messed with a bigger guy and then made it look like he was the victim, he locked Green's arm and pulled him down, guy has become the Laimbeer of little guys.

 

[traitor71]

Surprised nobody has taken a swing at Dellavedova yet, the guy is constantly clutching and grabbing. Again he messed with a bigger guy and then made it look like he was the victim, he locked Green's arm and pulled him down, guy has become the Laimbeer of little guys.

Yeah, it's really gotten ridiculous with this guy.

 

[CTBasketball]

I just realized both offenses are absolutely horrific to watch. For GS 3 players stand in the corner, Curry gets a high ball screen, and then either passes or shoots. For Cleveland, they let LeBron iso and wait for a double team. God.

 

[James]

while he can't jump, miller looks very good physically. should see more time next half, also seems legit ready hit any catchn shoot trey, thats shumps role but he is always pump faking.

 

[James]

Ben Golliver ‏@BenGolliver 3m3 minutes ago
Since 2000, only players with 20/8/8 in a Finals game are Kobe, Duncan, LeBron, Kidd, Shaq and Westbrook. LeBron is there at halftime.

 

[huskyharry]

Surprised nobody has taken a swing at Dellavedova yet, the guy is constantly clutching and grabbing. Again he messed with a bigger guy and then made it look like he was the victim, he locked Green's arm and pulled him down, guy has become the Laimbeer of little guys.

it was a very dirty take-down play.
However, Green needs to keep his cool and his head in the game

 

[JSM1970]

Ridiculous comment. Ridiculous.

Surprised nobody has taken a swing at Dellavedova yet, the guy is constantly clutching and grabbing. Again he messed with a bigger guy and then made it look like he was the victim, he locked Green's arm and pulled him down, guy has become the Laimbeer of little guys.